Dust collection

robgott1

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Joined
May 17, 2024
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39
Hello! I am working in my garage and have a table saw track saw planer router sander pretty basic. Right now I hook my tools up to a ridgid vacuum with anti static hose and it actually does a pretty fine job

I was wondering if there is a recommendation you guys would have to manage dust chips other than a festool extractor. That’s gonna be my purchase but not sure if I could go along the dust collector route. Thanks

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If you have good results with your table saw using a CT, I assume yours is a contractor or job site saw.

A dust collector is needed for a cabinet saw, band saw, thickness planer and jointer that come with a 4" port.

Check the port size of your machines.

One accessory that I find extremely useful is the auto switch. I have one on every stationary machine including the table saw, but not those that are served by the CT15.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...ccessories/63013-ivac-automatic-vacuum-switch

Its price has gone up steadily over the years. There're cheaper ones, but they don't give you a max. rating of 30 Amp, which I need.
 
There are two parts of the dust collection equation:  the chips and the fines.  The chips make a mess and are annoying, especially from high volume machines like a planer.  The fines hang in the air and kill you.

A shopvac hooked up to your tools can actually do a decent job of containing the mess (if you’re relatively tolerant of having to do some cleanup after), and it will get a lot of the fines at the source.  It will not keep your garage spotless - eventually a fine layer of dust will be on EVERYTHING.  For your lungs, it’s important to wear a respirator in that scenario.
It’s a doable setup if that’s what your space and budget allow.  Improvements to that setup would  a cyclone in front of the vac (to capture the chips and keep them from clogging the vac’s bag/filter, and a ceiling mounted air scrubber.  HEPA filter in the vac is a must.  In total that’s about $200-500 of expenditure. 

If you have larger tools with 4” dust ports, then you need a dust collector.  Note that you’ll still need a shopvac for collection from the smaller tools.  A dust collector takes up space and will require its own dedicated circuit.  There are ways to do it decently if on a budget (Harbor Freight + modifications). 

So unless you’re planning on adding a lot of large stationary tools (cabinet saw, jointer/planer, bandsaw, drum sander), I’d look at a cyclone and better filter for the shopvac, adding an air scrubber, and having a decent respirator.
 
live4ever said:
... and a ceiling mounted air scrubber.
...
This is so hard to overstate.

In any enclosed space the fine dust will stay up for days, the smaller the particles, the more carcinogenic and the longer they take to settle.

Without an air scrubber or other way to clean/replace the air, almost every minute one works in the shop becomes a minute of exposure. Even when not generating any "new" fine dust that day.

One good thing with a garage setup is it tends to be easy to quickly exchange the air by opening it. But that does not really work all that well in places that experience proper four seasons ..
 
I have two shop-made air filtration systems, one made out of a squirrel furnace fan and one a box fan. My neighbor may have a clever alternative he uses his shoulder-strapped snow/leaf blower to blast the heck out of his shop. I always tell him that he gives me a heads-up (so I can close my garage door) before he does that. One time, I watched from my window and thought a Sirocco was paying him a visit.

On that note, invest in a decent air quality monitor. You may be amazed that how clean or dirty the shop air is depending on what you do and what dust extraction is put in place. Most of the time, my air filtration systems are not turned on. (I came across a YouTube videos that tested some of the cheap monitors and the readings from them were found to be wrong and dangerously misleading.)
 
Okay so I really feel confident in making the purchase of a festool dust extractor. And I using a ceiling hung purifyer

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robgott1 said:
Okay so I really feel confident in making the purchase of a festool dust extractor. And I using a ceiling hung purifyer

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Hey what ceiling hung purifier are you getting?
 
A ceiling hung filter is a band aid solution and is only good for the dust that was not collected at the machine. That dust is now floating around in the air which means you are breathing it in and it is not coming out of your lungs. Any cyclone in a dust collection system reduces the efficiency of that system because that is the way that cyclones work. I did this stuff for a living and in the end your choice will affect your health and there is no way around that. Some choose a respirator but for me that would be intolerable so I make sure the fine dust that escapes is minimised by using a proper ducted system because vacuum cleaners are good at picking up the debris but not the fine dust. In the end it is your choice, a broom will pick up the large debris but not the fine dust. I had a wife call me one day and order a cyclone because she was sick and tired of her husband coughing a spluttering at night and keeping her awake and she harassed him until he installed it!
 
My squirrel cage fan and box fan-turned air purifiers are mounted at my head level, not 8 or 9' above ground as many people do.

The exit ends face me so fresh, filtered air is what I breathe when they're turned on (as guided by the air quality monitor). The most important dust prevention is dust collection at source, and that's why I use a dust collector (for below-the -table dust collection) and a shop vac at the same time for my SawStop PCS.

The Kapex is among the best miter saws you can get in terms of dust collection. My air quality monitor gives a thumbs-up rating whenever I use the Kapex with my HEPA shop vac/dust deputy.

The most dust-producing operation in my shop is sanding, specifically with the benchtop sander. That's the time I may wear a N95 mask in a prolonged sanding session.
 
live4ever pretty much wrote everything in Reply #2.

I was in a similar situation to you.
Started with a piece-of-junk ShopVac brand vacuum that was useless.  It was a happy day when it started to die and I had an excuse to replace it with a CT-36.  Used it for everything including my table saw.

That worked reasonably well until I got the jointer and planer.  I could fill up a Festool bag in a couple of minutes, and if you look at the cost of those bags, that is not a sustainable situation.    So I put a Dust Deputy cyclone on it, which makes bags last almost forever.

Somewhere along my journey I started getting more concerned about what I was breathing and got a mask and a 3/4 HP air cleaner. 
The air cleaner filters get dirty, so they must help, but I wouldn't rely on it to make the air safe to breathe, and the shop still got dusty.

Eventually got the Laguna P-Flux dust collector and that is working much better to keep my shop clean (not perfect, but much better) and give me confidence in the air I am breathing.  But when cutting or sanding for more than a few seconds, I will still put on my mask and sometimes turn on the air cleaner.  I have the air cleaner on casters and can move it close to the machine I am using at that time.
 
Wow, really great thread! I guess having my woodworking in my 110 yr old semi-subterranean unfinished basement that gets "some" airflow through small chicken-wire "windows" was not the best idea. Yikes! Well, other than having a good amount of space, it was never the best idea just from the narrow stairwell access alone... but those are the joys or urban living. I don't have a garage. So I kept my table saw in my shed that I would roll out for use onto patio area.. but I was often doing everything else in my basement, including sanding.
I do have a Fein shop vac attached to my miter saw (in the basement), and a small Dewalt vac that I would tape the hose to a small band saw, and to a 12" drill press that has a Drillnado accordion "shroud" on it. I also have a CT Midi connected to my sander and had plans to connect it to a track saw soon. But before reading this read, I'd never heard of cyclones, air cleaners, or dust collectors vs extractors. TBH, it's a bit overwhelming thinking about what I need to fix my setup. But I'm so appreciative to learn from FOG about the need. I wasn't even using a mask... ugh.
Okay, well that's all changing now. I would be considered a DIY'er/ small hobbyist at most... but I appreciate good tools, and I like to do things properly, and I certainly want to protect my lungs.
So..., If you were looking to rectify my setup, what would you buy next, and in what order? Any and all help is much appreciated... brands to avoid?... brands to aim for"... favorite models?... as I mentioned it's all still a bit overwhelming. And I'm not sure I'm really clear on the use of cyclones... It sounds like I need one, ... but also that it will decrease the effectiveness of the vac... so hook it to the vacs, but not the CT Midi? Did I understand that right?? Do I need different vacs? Cost is, of course, always an issue, but protecting my lungs his a high priority, and I'd rather buy it correctly once... and not be looking to upgrade it soon... as I have been trending up in my woodworking.
The ceiling in my basement is low... probably 6'6" and maybe lower in areas.
 
So..., If you were looking to rectify my setup, what would you buy next,

You need to be more specific about what you are trying to rectify.

If you are just a hobbyist and your table saw is in the shed, and you don't have a jointer or planer, your set-up is not so bad.
Are you worried about air quality? Solution is a good dust mask. An air cleaner helps, but you still need the mask and it won't stop the dust buildup on your floor and shelves.
Miter saws (other than Kapex) and band saws are notorious for poor dust/chip collection, so you are still going to be sweeping up after using those tools. Ditto router table.
(I know somebody is going to post that they have a set-up that captures 100% of router table dust/chips, but the rest of us mere mortals need to sweep up)
 
@DanesRFun As Steve pointed out, it's important to identify the issue that you are trying to rectify. You're in an old, urban basement without access to a garage and the table saw is in the shed. Roger that.

If you're doing sanding in your space (or any kind of particulate generation), you want to contain that as much as possible. This is where Festool excels best. The sanders and extractors are designed with this specifically in mind. If you don't have a sander kit then get yourself both the ETS EC 150/5 and CT MIDI I.

Next, you'll want to consider larger dust collection. To note: when people refer to dust extraction, it's typically for fine dust and lower volume tools, like sanders. When they say dust collection, it's typically for higher volume and larger chips, like from thickness planers and jointers.

The market is filled with all sorts of dust collectors which is why it's important to identify your requirements. The main point of all this is to keep your workshop clean and your lungs free from contaminants. The simplest way is to exhaust it out of the space. If you visit large workshops, this is essentially what they do. They blow everything outside the building - typically to very large cyclones that contain the sawdust in suspended bins that the business can back a box trailer under, dump the sawdust in and haul it away. In those circumstances, they're not worried about filtration.

At my friends workshop in the woods, we're planning an dust collection setup that does not include filtration. It's going to be fairly simple: Old, 3hp Delta motor with fan assembly he got off marketplace and an old 55ga drum I had lying around. We're gonna mount that outside the workshop, cut a hole through the wall for the hose and let 'er rip. Because it's blowing outside, no need for a filter.

The cyclone is a conical shaped apparatus that is designed to separate most of the airborne particulates and contain them. Depending on your setup, it won't be 100% effective but they work very well. Why you see HEPA filters is because a lot of these are setup inside the workspace due to necessity - and it is the HEPA filters that remove the finest and nearly invisible particulates that your nose hairs won't filter out and that will give you lung cancer and cause rapid death. Ideally, we want to avoid that.

So that's dust extraction and dust collection. The third leg is dust filtration in the workspace and I like the idea of whole room and near-field filtration. Festool recently made this easy with the release of their SYS-AIR models that are systainer sized (so relatively compact) and can be placed next to the workpiece. I myself am a bit cheap so I fashioned a near-field filter by attaching a 4" Merv 11 filter to a 20" box fan and then a 1" Merv 7 filter on top to act as a pre-filter for the Merv 11.

Flying above the room is a Corsi-Rosenthal Type box that I made with another 20" box fan and five 1" Merv 13 air filters. This filters the smallest of particulates that they say are light enough to be suspended airborne for up to 72 hours. Like you, my consideration for the lungs in paramount so I wanted to do everything I could.

In my garage, I also open the doors as much as possible. In your case, I'd also be looking to add an exhaust fan in addition to all these to blow additional air out. And I would also be looking for the best way to bring fresh air into the space. Because you always want fresh air circulating in your space.

These are the main pillars: Extraction, Collection, Filtration and Exhaust. I spent the money on the Festool Extractor and have built everything else. I mostly have small benchtop type tools, so most of the collection can be handled well by a big shop vac but I'm also building a dust collector. Spent the past few weeks assembling the parts: Central Machinery collector blower on clearance at Harbor Freight, Oneida Super Dust Deputy with bin, and a very large canister air filter - both on Marketplace. Now it's time to fashion a rolling rig to make it all work.

Enjoy the process!
 
Thanks, Steve. Yes, I can attest my old Dewalt miter saw, despite being attached to my old Fein vac is still very messy. I guess this thread got me to notice how the dust really does hang in the air. So air quality for lung health would be my main priority. I guess I was thinking that wearing a respirator during sawing was fine, but then if dust is still hanging in the air that I shouldn't ever take off the respirator while in the basement, and that didn't really sound appealing. So do I need a dust collector for the miter saw, rather than the Fein shop vac... or if I'm hearing your right, I might be better off investing in the Kapex? +/- a chip/dust collector. (My router is an old dewalt 616/618.) I don't mind sweeping up... but decreasing the amount of dust, and/or using a combination of equipment to collect and clean the air such that I don't always have to be wearing a respirator in the basement would be ideal.
 
@DanesRFun As Steve pointed out, it's important to identify the issue that you are trying to rectify. You're in an old, urban basement without access to a garage and the table saw is in the shed. Roger that.

If you're doing sanding in your space (or any kind of particulate generation), you want to contain that as much as possible. This is where Festool excels best. The sanders and extractors are designed with this specifically in mind. If you don't have a sander kit then get yourself both the ETS EC 150/5 and CT MIDI I.

Next, you'll want to consider larger dust collection. To note: when people refer to dust extraction, it's typically for fine dust and lower volume tools, like sanders. When they say dust collection, it's typically for higher volume and larger chips, like from thickness planers and jointers.

The market is filled with all sorts of dust collectors which is why it's important to identify your requirements. The main point of all this is to keep your workshop clean and your lungs free from contaminants. The simplest way is to exhaust it out of the space. If you visit large workshops, this is essentially what they do. They blow everything outside the building - typically to very large cyclones that contain the sawdust in suspended bins that the business can back a box trailer under, dump the sawdust in and haul it away. In those circumstances, they're not worried about filtration.

At my friends workshop in the woods, we're planning an dust collection setup that does not include filtration. It's going to be fairly simple: Old, 3hp Delta motor with fan assembly he got off marketplace and an old 55ga drum I had lying around. We're gonna mount that outside the workshop, cut a hole through the wall for the hose and let 'er rip. Because it's blowing outside, no need for a filter.

The cyclone is a conical shaped apparatus that is designed to separate most of the airborne particulates and contain them. Depending on your setup, it won't be 100% effective but they work very well. Why you see HEPA filters is because a lot of these are setup inside the workspace due to necessity - and it is the HEPA filters that remove the finest and nearly invisible particulates that your nose hairs won't filter out and that will give you lung cancer and cause rapid death. Ideally, we want to avoid that.

So that's dust extraction and dust collection. The third leg is dust filtration in the workspace and I like the idea of whole room and near-field filtration. Festool recently made this easy with the release of their SYS-AIR models that are systainer sized (so relatively compact) and can be placed next to the workpiece. I myself am a bit cheap so I fashioned a near-field filter by attaching a 4" Merv 11 filter to a 20" box fan and then a 1" Merv 7 filter on top to act as a pre-filter for the Merv 11.

Flying above the room is a Corsi-Rosenthal Type box that I made with another 20" box fan and five 1" Merv 13 air filters. This filters the smallest of particulates that they say are light enough to be suspended airborne for up to 72 hours. Like you, my consideration for the lungs in paramount so I wanted to do everything I could.

In my garage, I also open the doors as much as possible. In your case, I'd also be looking to add an exhaust fan in addition to all these to blow additional air out. And I would also be looking for the best way to bring fresh air into the space. Because you always want fresh air circulating in your space.

These are the main pillars: Extraction, Collection, Filtration and Exhaust. I spent the money on the Festool Extractor and have built everything else. I mostly have small benchtop type tools, so most of the collection can be handled well by a big shop vac but I'm also building a dust collector. Spent the past few weeks assembling the parts: Central Machinery collector blower on clearance at Harbor Freight, Oneida Super Dust Deputy with bin, and a very large canister air filter - both on Marketplace. Now it's time to fashion a rolling rig to make it all work.

Enjoy the process!
Check. Great help. Thank you so much onocoffee. I was looking at a couple of similar findings on MP yesterday: "Harbor freight dust collector w/homemade rolling cart $75" and "Festool vacuum with Oneida wood dust air collection system and hoses for indoor/outdoor use in woodworking - $450." Sounds like I should investigate these further. More later... gotta run to appointment.
 
I guess I was thinking that wearing a respirator during sawing was fine, but then if dust is still hanging in the air that I shouldn't ever take off the respirator while in the basement, and that didn't really sound appealing. So do I need a dust collector for the miter saw, rather than the Fein shop vac... or if I'm hearing your right, I might be better off investing in the Kapex? +/- a chip/dust collector.
According to Festool "A particle 1.0 µm in size needs 7 hours to drop 3 ft." So assuming that there are 1.0 µm particles suspended close to ceiling height, after 7 hours, those particles are now at the perfect inhalation height...nose & mouth. o_O

If your miter saw is your most used tool AND you use it a lot, then I would definitely consider substituting a Kapex with the Fein vac. Start the process with installing dust extraction/collection at your most used tools that produce the smallest dust particles...sanders & saws.

Drills, routers, jointers & planers all produce larger wood chips as a general rule.
 
The simplest way is to exhaust it out of the space. If you visit large workshops, this is essentially what they do. They blow everything outside the building - typically to very large cyclones that contain the sawdust in suspended bins that the business can back a box trailer under, dump the sawdust in and haul it away. In those circumstances, they're not worried about filtration.


Enjoy the process!
Thanks again onocoffee... and you're really making me want a vacay to HI... and reminding me I've been without coffee since Friday (espresso machine went in for repair)... LOL

My basement still has the cutout for the old coal delivery site. That with one of the other "chicken wire windows" could be converted/setup to provide better air flow as a start. Thank you again for such a detailed description of the concepts and routes of mitigation! You've given me great info for turning my space into something useable rather than unhealthy.

On the sander... I took Mino's previous advice and went after the new ETSC 2 125... though I ended up with the 150, since the 125 was back ordered... it's been hooked up to my CT Midi I HEPA which I picked up used a while back, but hadn't used much... and it's wonderful!! And I have no regrets on the 150 vs 125... it's just making me want to learn and tackle more. And it's sooo much less noisy than my very loud Fein and Dewalt shop vacs... I'm sure my neighbors love the difference, too.
 
According to Festool "A particle 1.0 µm in size needs 7 hours to drop 3 ft." So assuming that there are 1.0 µm particles suspended close to ceiling height, after 7 hours, those particles are now at the perfect inhalation height...nose & mouth. o_O

If your miter saw is your most used tool AND you use it a lot, then I would definitely consider substituting a Kapex with the Fein vac. Start the process with installing dust extraction/collection at your most used tools that produce the smallest dust particles...sanders & saws.

Drills, routers, jointers & planers all produce larger wood chips as a general rule.
Wow, that's pretty interesting... and a scary thought, since I have previously tended to use my miter saw or even my circular saw in the basement rather than going up and outside and pulling out the table saw. I just spent my morning PT session talking out how I might fashion a better/smoother setup for rolling my table saw in and out of the shed... so that I won't avoid using it (in the better airflow of outdoors).

Guess it was time to do some upgrades anyway. The whole "needing a new sander" that started all of this turned out to be a blessing in disguise... an expensive blessing... but most definitely a blessing.

Starting my list... and scouring fb marketplace and Craigslist. The HF cyclone turned out to be pretty far away cuz the guy forgot to update his location after a move... And the Festool/Oneida combo is 2 hours away in the opposite direction... ugh... but who knows... maybe they'll meet me half way... LOL

Thanks so much, I really appreciate everyone's help!
 
@onocoffee -- Quick question on the DIY near-field and overhead Corsi-Rosenthal box filtration, how often do you change the filters? Or is there a way to know when it's time to change the filters?
I've been thinking about that lately because both were built over the past several months. When building the Corsi box, I bought a six pack of Merv 13 filters off Amazon for around $80. They are white - or they were white. As I looked at the build photos, they are a bit brown now, so at least they are working. I'll probably replace them at the six month mark, which will be by the end of summer.

The near-field, I'll probably change the pre-filter this week since it's been working for about six months.

If you're thinking about building your own air filters, The 3D Handyman has an excellent series of videos on different approaches to DIY filtration:
 
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