Author Topic: Shop Build Progess (Changed Name from Whats a good shop size?)  (Read 7475 times)

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Offline jobsworth

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2020, 11:24 AM »
You guys make very good points. The Tuff shed price was comparable to the other shed company. But didnt include the foundation.....

Ya know I think Ill got for the large 24X36. If I move when expected, end of Feb, it will give me time to get the shop up and going before the heat comes. Then if I'll have the space I need even if I decide to get some stationary tools in the future.

funny I always used the adage I rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

 I can set up a fridge and a lunch area w/ TV to watch you Tube videos etc. It will be a for real man cave.

Something I always wanted but never had.

 The insulation is a given, so no real decsion making there other then what type of insulation.

Now is the type of A/C unit to get. They come in a variety of styles and types. Split vs window vs portable etc.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 577
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2020, 11:26 AM »
Well all three of these sizes come out to approximately $30/sq ft. Which in my book is great! In my neck of the woods you would be $60-80/sq ft for a stick built garage. My question would be what upgrades does this company offer, like an insulation package for example. Personally i think that you have to enter this thinking that you have one shot to get it right. Let’s face it how many times do we stay with what we started with because changing / adding  / upgrading, after the fact is SO much harder.

As woodworkers, as it pertains to our shops we work with what we have and that shapes everything we do. If you make the decision to go bigger I believe that you will never regret it! It will give you flexibility that you just haven’t had before. I know that you don’t think that you need a lot more space and you are happy with your equipment now but having options might change that going forward.

It sounds like this is a big move for you which in my book means that you might be there a while so I say go for it! Also I have a feeling that you will finish this into a nice space when it’s done. A nice size multi purpose craft building on the property will enhance your resale value in the future. From a real estate perspective I have a feeling that adding usable square footage for $30 ish (even $40 ish) dollars per foot will prove to be a very good investment.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2020, 11:37 AM »
My 20'x20'x9' shop 4 sides roof was 13k. That include walls, doors, windows and outside finish. The slab alone cost me 10k. Because of deep freeze time here, I put a 4' wall on the footing, filled it with sands and a 4" foam. That was to prevent crack, so far so good  [smile]. Then there was the other things to invest in.

Electrical panel and outlets;
LED Lightning;
Insulation;
inside walls finish;
Floor treatment
Mario

Offline Alanbach

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2020, 12:04 PM »
@Mario Turcot - You should have listed “The most beautiful electrical panel known to man”!

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2020, 12:12 PM »
This is going to be quite a adventure. Dont know much about Az other than its desert and gets hot. So my learning curve is going to be steep. I can do most of the electrical work myself. Just need to get the panel ran out to the shed. Which in reality I can do myself, but will faster If I sub it out.

I dont want to do what I always do and thats rush through it to get it done. I want to take my time lay this shop out to where I dont have to and run other outlets etc. I want it to be a one shot deal. Set up right with the ability to adjust for any future tool buys etc

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2020, 12:14 PM »
The 20x20 is $12K Installed with a garage door and foundation. The 24X24 is $17.5, The 24X36 is $25.6. This look like really well built sheds. Lemme check out tough shed and Ill check their prices again.

24x36 seems overpriced.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 561
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2020, 12:18 PM »
The 20x20 is $12K Installed with a garage door and foundation. The 24X24 is $17.5, The 24X36 is $25.6. This look like really well built sheds. Lemme check out tough shed and Ill check their prices again.

24x36 seems overpriced.

They all look around $30/sq-ft.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2020, 12:20 PM »
The 20x20 is $12K Installed with a garage door and foundation. The 24X24 is $17.5, The 24X36 is $25.6. This look like really well built sheds. Lemme check out tough shed and Ill check their prices again.
-
24 x 36 is 50% more than the 24x24 (864-576/576), and that's fairly reflected in the increased price ($25.6-17.5/17.5=46%). At that price, you are getting a fair deal for the bigger size (at least mathematically).

I'd definitely pay more to get the 24x36 as it is a one-time expense and construction costs will only go up in time. My basement is about 1,000, and when I pictured myself using it as my shop, I did not feel it being a huge shop at all given the machines and stuff  I now have. I would regret if I had a chance to build my shop and limit it to 24x24. But then your woodworking output and needs might be different from mine.

Not unless they’re including another 24 foot wall across the interior. 24x24 price includes two end walls. 24x36 just adds 12 feet of roof walls and foundation. Incremental additional costs should total less than 50% more.

I’m going on about this because I too think you should go for the bigger space, just don’t think the price  fairly reflects the difference in construction costs.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 12:22 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2020, 02:57 PM »
Tuff shed was a little less but didnt include the foundation and studs looked to be 24 OC where the other one the studs are 2x4 and 16 OC and included the foundation

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2020, 05:36 AM »
Ron, just a thought but, would a self build work out more viable financially?
Having said that, self builds often get bespoke/custom as they roll along, tugging at the purse strings.

Offline JBag09

  • Posts: 228
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2020, 04:10 PM »
Check our metalbarncentral.com. Looks like they are in the area your going to. I did my 30x40, with pouring the slab for just under 20k, but opposite side of the country. And I had them add some 1/2” insulation board under the metal, definitely seemed to help even before I had the inside finished. Whatever you decide will be well worth the time and effort believe me.


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Offline jobsworth

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2020, 12:22 AM »
@JBag09

Thanks for the info. I sent them a request for quote and requested the shop be insulated to with stand the Az heat. I went for a 36X36 with a lean to. So lets see what they come up with

Offline JBag09

  • Posts: 228
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2020, 06:41 AM »
@jobsworth , great interested to hear what they come back with. That’s a great size too.
  I studded out the inside of mine and then did r-19 for a total of r-22 with the insulation board and drywall. The ceiling I used a vapor barrier and 1/2” plywood (since I got it for free lol) and then I blew in insulation, ended up around r-60. I did all that myself and I’m sure it saved me ALOT in the end. I think I came in around and 10k, which included all the framing, insulation, electrical, mini splits (my son does this work so he installed them) and a new 5hp dust collector.


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Offline jobsworth

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2020, 10:12 AM »
It will be interesting to see. I did ask them if they could insulate during installation. Just to see if they could and what the cost would be. My thing is to get the shop built and usable quickly.

There is a lot of building going on residential neighborhoods with a lot of residential housing going up. I mean a lot.

I want to set up and capitalize on that.
Building garage cabinets for the front wall of the garage high enough off the ground where they can park their vehicles comfortably. 

Im thinking there will be a need for that and may lead into to other work. Just small jobs what most contractors wont do because its to small of a job. Custom shelves, etc.

 Of course Im retired from my career job, but this will keep me busy and I can use the money to help defray the cost of the shed and for some home improvements of my own.

If i get enough people wanting them I can batch them out. Festool is awesome for that sort work.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 10:16 AM by jobsworth »

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 577
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2020, 06:09 PM »
That opens up an interesting two way street. You want to build a shop and you may need some trades to help you get things done quickly. You can stop by nearby home building sites in varying stages of construction and meet many different trades that might be able to do work on your workshop. In the process you will probably meet some guys that, while they are not general contractors they do consolidate a number of different trades for the builder. Those guys can give you work or even work out barter arrangements to get your shop done quickly in exchange for work they might need. Great idea!

Offline martin felder

  • Posts: 103
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2020, 03:47 PM »
A couple of thoughts.  Regarding insulation.  I think that is key as this better allows an AC unit to keep up with very high heat and saves utility $.  I think reading about R values is a good use of time. If the framing is 2x4s, consider adding some  strips to have a larger cavity between the studs to accommodate more insulation.  That could be R-Max rigid foam (available Home Depot with high R-value per inch) or the other less expensive easier to install options.I think split is better than window which is better than portable.  A central can be use for larger structures where the air handler is suspended and really, there does not have to be much ducting or any ducting.  That would give maximum cooling.  If you like working in the heat, not a problem.  If not, then it will be no fun when the inside temp is 80+ degrees.

Another thought is that if the structure has windows and you can remove a window and build an enclosure for the dust collector outside the opening where the opening allows the duct to exit (and air return), an advantage could be an ability to empty the bin without a dust cloud inside the shop and that space saved inside the shop can be used for other things. 

Of course all about priorities and personal preferences. 

Offline bkharman

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2020, 04:43 PM »
A couple of thoughts.  Regarding insulation.  I think that is key as this better allows an AC unit to keep up with very high heat and saves utility $.  I think reading about R values is a good use of time. If the framing is 2x4s, consider adding some  strips to have a larger cavity between the studs to accommodate more insulation.  That could be R-Max rigid foam (available Home Depot with high R-value per inch) or the other less expensive easier to install options.I think split is better than window which is better than portable.  A central can be use for larger structures where the air handler is suspended and really, there does not have to be much ducting or any ducting.  That would give maximum cooling.  If you like working in the heat, not a problem.  If not, then it will be no fun when the inside temp is 80+ degrees.

Another thought is that if the structure has windows and you can remove a window and build an enclosure for the dust collector outside the opening where the opening allows the duct to exit (and air return), an advantage could be an ability to empty the bin without a dust cloud inside the shop and that space saved inside the shop can be used for other things. 

Of course all about priorities and personal preferences.
Good ideas.

On another note, is your name truly “Martin Felder”?

Cheers. Bryan.



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Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2020, 05:12 PM »
Martin fielder is obviously a pseudonym.
Check out the thread where he first used the monicker and you’ll understand.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 577
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2020, 11:20 PM »
A central can be use for larger structures where the air handler is suspended and really, there does not have to be much ducting or any ducting.  That would give maximum cooling.

I have a ten foot ceiling in my garage and an exterior wall so I had an A/C contractor hang a central A/C (with a small electric heating strip). The evaporator coil and air handler hang from the ceiling in the space just above the garage doors. There is a small plenum with one duct. It works amazingly well and I am in Houston where it is very common to have 5 months of 90 plus degree weather with dozens of those days potentially being 100 degrees plus.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2020, 06:04 PM »
Been a while since I posted a update. Today the county came out surveyed the area where the shop is going to be built took some photos for the permits. So its progressing. I got a feeling that hos will be one of those things that drag and drag and drag but once it starts going bam itsll be done fast. (fingers crossed)

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2020, 10:32 PM »
Good luck and keep posting slacker  [wink]
Mario

Offline Thompmd

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2020, 11:21 PM »
I have about a 30x30 for the main shop then other adjacent space for larger wood and regular tools. I didn’t build myself.

—will there be other uses(vehicles, seasonal storage, etc
—be careful what size O/H door you get as you lose a lot of space/efficiency . Also consider where your service door is in regards to moving things in/out. I would opt for a more rectangular shop as wall space vs center of the room floor space for me would be more valuable. I would also ask myself what are your biggest 3 issues in your current space as well as what you like about your current space

How exciting it must be, congratulations!!!
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Offline CeeJay

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2020, 11:58 PM »
I have a shop in Queensland Australia. Similar heat to AZ but higher humidity. It is south facing and shaded by a taller structure to the north, and fairly well insulated. It doesn’t have AC and I can comfortably work through 35degree (C) summer with door and window (both south facing) open, I do however have an 84” Big Ass ceiling fan which is fantastic.

Pretty small shop - 18’ by 14’. I’ve got a full sized table saw, jointer, thicknesser, workbench, mitre station, bandsaw, ducted DC, some storage and no room for anything else! Tall ceilings at 12’ which helps. Lots of racks etc to allow storage above machines etc.


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Offline jobsworth

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2020, 10:43 AM »
@CeeJay

Ceiling fans are on my list to put in. Not sure how many yet. Im guessing maybe 3.

@Thompmd

This is a stand alone shop nothing else going in it. It will have a 8 x 10 storage shed built on to it. I got enough land if I need more storage I can always just build another shed. It would be out of siding and Id build that myself.

Since I have pretty much all festools the only stationary tool is my jet jointer. The rest are festool/bench top tools. I use my CMS GE with my TS 75 for a table saw and my CMS VL for a router table and made modules out of plywood for other bench top tool to mount in them.

Like my Ca shop Ill get some spur shelving to set the modules /bench top tools on. Ill definately be utilising the walls. As far as additional storage lumber etc, Im thinking of building a leanto on one of the exterior walls a place to store my landscaping tools .

Its all in my mind at this time. Wont know until its actually built and Im setting it up and resetting up and and until Im happy with the lay out for work flow.

Im thinking work flow will determine shop lay out. a Guido type  wall along the back should do me about right for Systainers small parts storing finish etc.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2020, 12:22 AM »
Signed the contract today, they should be digging for the slab by the end of the week.

Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 151
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2020, 12:48 AM »
Signed the contract today, they should be digging for the slab by the end of the week.
That’s pretty exciting! We did this 4 years ago. Took 12 months from signing contract to moving in. But that was for whole block and house inc workshop.


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Offline Don T

  • Posts: 1967
  • Phoenix, Az
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2020, 01:17 AM »
@CeeJay

Ceiling fans are on my list to put in. Not sure how many yet. Im guessing maybe 3.

@Thompmd

This is a stand alone shop nothing else going in it. It will have a 8 x 10 storage shed built on to it. I got enough land if I need more storage I can always just build another shed. It would be out of siding and Id build that myself.

Since I have pretty much all festools the only stationary tool is my jet jointer. The rest are festool/bench top tools. I use my CMS GE with my TS 75 for a table saw and my CMS VL for a router table and made modules out of plywood for other bench top tool to mount in them.

Like my Ca shop Ill get some spur shelving to set the modules /bench top tools on. Ill definately be utilising the walls. As far as additional storage lumber etc, Im thinking of building a leanto on one of the exterior walls a place to store my landscaping tools .

Its all in my mind at this time. Wont know until its actually built and Im setting it up and resetting up and and until Im happy with the lay out for work flow.

Im thinking work flow will determine shop lay out. a Guido type  wall along the back should do me about right for Systainers small parts storing finish etc.
You should get a Bigass Fan
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Offline RJNeal

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Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2020, 08:12 AM »
Congratulations, enjoy.
Have you walked your saw today?

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2020, 06:25 PM »
Rather than start a new thread, Ill just keep this one going. So today it begins.
they came out and dug the trenches for the footings.



Offline Thompmd

  • Posts: 123
Re: Whats a good shop size?
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2020, 06:35 PM »
How cool! I look forward to following the build, there can’t be sawdust soon enough and with a good dust extractor there won’t be any lol
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