Author Topic: Setting My New Shop Up (Formerly Shop Build Progress) (Read 82268 times)

jobsworth · « **on:** January 20, 2020, 12:04 PM »

Hi ya'll. Well Im finally making my out of state. Ya'll know Ive been threatening to do that for a while now.
I thought Id be moving to Tx but we took a trip to Arizona and the wife found a home thats being built and loves it. So happy wife, happy life.

Well the new home isn a full acre of land and is a blank slate. So I have to get s shop built and electricity ran out to it. The acre has a block wall fence all around it and the house is sorta out in the sticks with state forest land on one side.

Like i said its a blank slate

We all know the larger the better. Realistically we all arent daddy war bucks rolling in doe. I was thinking about 30' X 40' tough shed with a slab foundation, extending the foundation out another 10-15 ft in length so I can add on in the future.

There is a big difference in the price for a 20 x 40 shed to.

Maybe buying a trailer setting up shop in the trailer and using a slab as a work shop as the arizona weather other than the heat in the summer really isnt bad.

I have a 3 car garage I can use until a shop is built. But we'll have a lot of junk to be piled up in it until we get the junk sorted (we got to much junk).

Suggestions please? The house isn't going to be completed until the end of Feb so Im just beating my head up over this now. Thinking what to do, my options i setting up shop....

yogo100 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2020, 12:35 PM »

Mark Spagnuolo (a.k.a. the woodwhisperer online) built a shop in Arizona (Phoenix area) a couple of years ago, and documented it for his website (he has since moved to Colorado, I think). I know that this doesn't answer your question directly, but he put a lot of thought into both the size and other requirements for the shop, so it may be worthwhile for you to look it up. I only lived in Tempe for a couple of years, but I would figure that you'd have to give some thought to air conditioning

ChuckS · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2020, 01:11 PM »

Congrats. Living on an acreage was once my dream (too old to pursue it now).

Not knowing what machines you have or will have for your new shop or the size of the shop you have been using, I'd would say a shop the size of a four-car garage or so would be good for a hobby woodworker, with room for lumber racks and partitioned dust collection.

I'd take 30' x 40'; 20' x 40' is less ideal but workable. I have a shop the size of a 2-car garage...only in the day time, as at night, two cars go in there. And I've been building furniture there from dining tables to cabinets to bookcases, etc.

I'm against the tide when it comes to shop size...the larger is not necessarily the better as I don't want to spend a lot of energy on just walking across the shop to get what I need. I've got used to my compact shop and everything is within reach without taking a hike, if you know what I mean. It is efficiency I'm talking about, not to mention aging is not helping.

Big shops look great, but unless you're a production or active woodworker, depending on the local weather, you may have to spend a lot of money on cooling or heating it. I shut down my shop last whole week because of the deep freeze (highs in the -20C)... to save energy costs. Today is back to +5C high...shop is OPEN.

vkumar · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2020, 01:41 PM »

Wow congratulations. I can tell you that a 2 car garage size 20 x 20 is not adequate. Depends on whether you will have large stationary machines or not. A full sized table saw, jointer, planer, workbench assembly table , compressor can eat up a lot of room. If you are and not planning on having these then you can get by with less. Regardless of this do not skimp on electrical outlets, both 220 and 110 V and sufficient amperage sub panel (100 A). In case of large machines do plan on a ducting system for dust extraction.

Where in Arizona? Keep us informed of your progress.

Vijay

Pompeio · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2020, 03:44 PM »

Hi Ron:

My downstairs workshop is 13x26 and I wish it was larger. I have an 8' Kapex bench, CT26, two tool chests (with one holding two grinders and a mini-lathe) against one long wall. The rear short wall has a CMS holding the 1400, another tool chest with a bench top bandsaw and drill press atop it. The other long wall has a jointer, portable air compressor, entry door, utility sink and Powermatic 66 table saw. The MFT3 table sets in the middle of the rear half of the room. It can get crowded but it works for me.

I think that 20 or 26 x 26 would be great. You may want to consider a portion of the area for a spray booth (I currently use the medium and large pop-up HomeRight Spray Shelters). This would also give you two more walls.

egmiii · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2020, 04:47 PM »

I'm not sure what tools are in your future, but if you ever plan to buy a sliding table saw with sufficient stroke to rip/crosscut full sheets of plywood, then you would need 23' x 16' just for the saw. The price of used machines can make them relatively affordable to hobbyist woodworkers.

jobsworth · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2020, 05:04 PM »

After reading some of the responses first , Id like to say thanks for them. But I also realised maybe I should describe my tools that I use in the shop.

I have a CMS with a TS75 for a table saw in a GE stand, I have a CMS VL I use for my router table w a 2200 in it, and other modules I made for it. I have 3 full size MFT 3 a Kapex MFT, Kapex a MFT extension. All my festools are in systainers, TS 55, Domino 500&700, 1010, LR 32, various sanders , 2 CTs 26/22, one has a boom arm, the other has the festool cyclone , Work center with Festool stool. Igot a large vsrety of rails the smallest is a home made 400mm the largest is 3000.
Im currently set up in a standard garage (1 1/2 car garage). Makita 12 planers , Jet 6" jointer, Apollo HVLP.

Its a little tight but I can get things done. I think I may have a old photo of my current shop. Lemme check,

I found one not very good but it will give ya'll a idea of what Im dealing with.

Ok I found a couple

Don T · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2020, 05:26 PM »

Welcome to Arizona Ron. I always dreamed of a 30’ X 40’ shop, in my mind that is a perfect size. Unfortunately I work out of a 2 car garage. You will need AC from May to October if plan on building during that time of year.

rvieceli · « **Reply #8 on:** January 20, 2020, 05:45 PM »

Ron a 30x40 would be a good size even if you don't have a bunch of large stationary machines. Storage space is always at a premium no matter how big you go.

Make sure there are no restrictions on what you can build on your lot. HOA, zoning etc.

Ron

jobsworth · « **Reply #9 on:** January 20, 2020, 06:22 PM »

@vkumar

Im moving to Surprise Az. Lots of building going on there. Fortunately the house Im buying is surrounded by homes on acreage and one side backs up to state forest.

jobsworth · « **Reply #10 on:** January 20, 2020, 06:32 PM »

@Don T

Don Ill definately be picking your brain for info once I get out there and get going.
Only supplier I know of there is Peterman Lumber. I think thats one of the hardest things for me is finding where and who are good suppliers are there. Do you use one of those air coolers add water and they blow that cool air or do you use a regular ac unit? I might be in my garage for a while until I get everything set up my ducks all in a row and quacking. Setting up the house is the first thing.

Don T · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2020, 09:34 PM »

Quote from: jobsworth on January 20, 2020, 06:32 PM

@Don T

Don Ill definately be picking your brain for info once I get out there and get going.
Only supplier I know of there is Peterman Lumber. I think thats one of the hardest things for me is finding where and who are good suppliers are there. Do you use one of those air coolers add water and they blow that cool air or do you use a regular ac unit? I might be in my garage for a while until I get everything set up my ducks all in a row and quacking. Setting up the house is the first thing.

You are very close to where I live. I have never been to Petermans. There are a few places to get lumber here, Woodworkers Source, Timbers, and one other that I can’t think of the name.

tallgrass · « **Reply #12 on:** January 20, 2020, 09:56 PM »

Lots of building going on...... Yup Californians on the run. I wish I could leave now. Enjoy !!!! As far a s perfect shop size. You will expand to fill any size you build. Deals too good to be true..

will eventually fill all the free space. Just accept it. Go as big as you can, reasonably. ENJOY!

jobsworth · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2020, 11:14 PM »

@Don T

Petermans is a big outfit they are in Fontana Calif, Las Vegas Nevada and Phoenix. Just for curiosity I calleed their phoenix store and axed them how much they were getting for a sheet of 3/4 domestic shop birch, they said $52. I called my reg store in Calif Reel Lumber and they were $65 a sheet and Austins was $69 a sheet.

Crazy huh?

jobsworth · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2020, 11:16 PM »

Quote from: tallgrass on January 20, 2020, 09:56 PM

Lots of building going on...... Yup Californians on the run. I wish I could leave now. Enjoy !!!! As far a s perfect shop size. You will expand to fill any size you build. Deals too good to be true.. will eventually fill all the free space. Just accept it. Go as big as you can, reasonably. ENJOY!

Im gettin while the gettins good

Alanbach · « **Reply #15 on:** January 20, 2020, 11:49 PM »

A 40 x 30’ shop would be awesome and the freedom that you would have with a shop that large (compared to what you have now) would be fantastic. Unfortunately it does become about what you can (and are willing to) afford.

Here is what I would recommend you think about. If I understand your profile correctly you are leaving Southern California to move to Sunrise. Make sure that you have a really good understanding what that difference in climate means to your woodworking. I live in Houston and like Sunrise it is Zimbabwe hot, I mean crazy hot and not just for a month or two, maybe 6 months straight! My suggestion is to plan to build a well insulated shop with air conditioning so that you can woodwork year round comfortably. In my opinion a swamp cooler is not going to cut it. If you plan for A/C and budget for that and use those budget numbers to determine the size of your shop I think that would be prudent. Then, once you do that you can always choose to insulate but not install the A/C right away. Then if you discover I was correct and you really need it you will have room left in your budget to take care of it.

Also, when i bought this house 11 years ago I had big plans on projects I was going to both within the shop and the house. Those plans included building my own cabinets in the shop. After a month I hired someone to build my shop cabinets because everything was in boxes and I just could not get organized and set up enough to do what I wanted to do. I realize that you are much more Festooled than I was then and therefore much more mobile but the thought of having to set up shop twice might make you crazy.

Just some random thoughts! Congratulations and I can’t wait to hear and see progress reports!

Bob D. · « **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2020, 04:46 AM »

Include some conduits and maybe ducting under the floor to accommodate future electrical needs and maybe dust collection of possibly an air line. Nice not having to trip over hoses.

LED lighting of course and a minimum 10 foot ceiling.

jeffinsgf · « **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2020, 07:58 AM »

Following on Bob D.'s comments, the more you plan and build into the space, the less overall space you'll need. Get the ducts, power and air under the floor and you'll need smaller aisles, as well as have a more pleasant work place.

Wooden Skye · « **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2020, 11:55 AM »

Initially I would do a pole barn that measures 32' x40'. Multiples of 8' generally is better for building materials. I would insulate extremely well and add plenty of power so you can future proof as much as possible.

jarbroen · « **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2020, 01:00 PM »

At least as important as the size is how you'll organize it.
You could have a 32'x40' shop and waste a lot of time taking parts from one side to the other.
Conversely, you could have a 16'x20 that's well laid out and efficient to use.

If you're not eating up a bunch of space with equipment like a table saw do you really need huge? I have a similar set of tools/work surfaces - 2 MFT/CMS, bandsaw, Kapex cart, lathe, DC, planer - and I make it work in a 13'x20 something garage bay. That's the beauty of Festool mobility/configuration. Yes, I sometimes have to move things around, but I make the most of the space I have.
Are you setting up a hobby shop? Or professional? That makes a difference as well. If you're hobby like me, the moving around/setup isn't a big deal if I can plan ahead. If you're doing it professionally you don't want to waste time setting up frequently.

If you're into cars/bikes/etc you could do a 32'x40' and have garage space partitioned from woodshop space. And only AC in the woodshop.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #20 on:** January 21, 2020, 02:04 PM »

Sounds exciting Ron.
I think when planning a workshop, big is best. I would go large, then you are covered for storage, plus any new tool hankerings the future will almost certainly bring.

When we changed workshops last time, there were two on offer. They were both empty, and although one was nearly twice the size of the other, they both looked more than adequate.
I opted for the smaller, as it was in a more convenient location. Not even six months later, I realised I’d made a mistake.

Mario Turcot · « **Reply #21 on:** January 21, 2020, 05:19 PM »

If you have or will get a dust collector and air compressor, think of making a dedicated insulated room.

neilc · « **Reply #22 on:** January 21, 2020, 06:20 PM »

Lot's of discussions on shops on garagejournal.com @AtomicRyan on the forum here runs that site.

Suggest you check in there as there are plenty of threads on all facets of building a shop.

Good luck and look forward to following your progress.

JBag09 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 21, 2020, 07:59 PM »

I just put up at 30x40 pole building a few years ago. I have all my stationary tools on one side of the shop. A spray room and my mft benches and a 4x8 workbench on the other side. I was actually just out there earlier today working on some cabinets I have going right now and never had to walk to the other side of the shop. It just needs to be set up efficiently no matter what size you choose.
I put 12’ ceilings in so I could run DC, airlines and electric and dropped everything to the machines and benches so nothing lays on the floor. Also I can spin my fS3000 guide rail around with no issue.
Being in eastern Pa we get fairly hot summers (nothing like AZ or TX) and fairly cold winters (usually 20-30’s F for avg I’d say) I have two 1.5 ton mini splits that do just fine for the hot and cold. Hasn’t changed my electric bill to drastically.
I used Grizzly’s web site and their free shop layout to get mine figured out, think it was three variations until I got what I wanted. Good luck with whatever you decide to do and feel free to ask any questions you’d like.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jobsworth · « **Reply #24 on:** January 22, 2020, 10:42 AM »

Ok I checked out a shed manufacturer looked at what they call this size a garage. There is a dramatic price difference between a 20X20 (my current shop size) and a 24X36 their largest size.

Almost $13K difference.

They do have a 24x24 which is about $4K more than the 20x20.

The 24x24 will give me more room then I currently have and extra money to run the electrical out to the shop, Insulate and add a a/c unit.

My thoughts are, I can lay out the shop more efficiently then my current one giving me more actual working space.

Perhaps add a slab infront of the shop (in the future) , Then put a cover over the slab where I can (when its cooler out) build a cutting table for breaking down sheet goods. The cover will give me shade from the direct sunlight and protect from the occasional rain.

I can always add another shed for more storage.

I got the go ahead from the the Boss (Mrs Jobby) to get any size I want.

I dont forsee myself getting any major stationary tools in the future. I can do pretty much everything I want to do with what I got.

Maybe Im just being a cheap %%^&.

What ya'll think about that decision ?

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2020, 10:47 AM »

How much is the 20x20? Seems like 24x36 would be less than 50% more than 24x24 but since don’t know base price it’s hard to compare. Check another builder?

jobsworth · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2020, 10:54 AM »

The 20x20 is $12K Installed with a garage door and foundation. The 24X24 is $17.5, The 24X36 is $25.6. This look like really well built sheds. Lemme check out tough shed and Ill check their prices again.

Mario Turcot · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2020, 11:00 AM »

@jobsworth honestly it all depend of what you want to craft. You said you can do all you want with what you currently have. 20x20 is what I have and it's difficult to organize a good workflow. 24x24 is a lot more footprint. Yes to me an outside slab is a must. You can use it for a multitude of things, Even have your lunch outside of the shop

spray/paint booth etc..

Do you limit yourself with what you have?
Do you think you could do other interesting projects (insert a lot of if here) you had xxx tool?

If you think one day you will go on production mode, you will need a few stationary power tools.
i.e. I don't have a good thickness planer and no jointer, I am limited to buy prepared wood most of the time. In a production environment this is far from being profitable.

Cheese · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2020, 11:03 AM »

While the 24' x 24' doesn't seem like it's that much larger than what you currently have, square footage wise it's almost 50% larger. 576 sq' versus 400 sq'.

I'd consider a taller ceiling and doing some type of lumber storage in the rafters. That way you free up more floor space.

When I'm doing a project I need to access the lumber rack for only 5% of the project however I need floor space to complete the project for 95% of the project. That lumber rack on the wall just takes up space and gets in my way. The lumber rack takes up the space that could be used for a Kapex cutting station.

ChuckS · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2020, 11:05 AM »

Quote from: jobsworth on January 22, 2020, 10:54 AM

The 20x20 is $12K Installed with a garage door and foundation. The 24X24 is $17.5, The 24X36 is $25.6. This look like really well built sheds. Lemme check out tough shed and Ill check their prices again.

-
24 x 36 is 50% more than the 24x24 (864-576/576), and that's fairly reflected in the increased price ($25.6-17.5/17.5=46%). At that price, you are getting a fair deal for the bigger size (at least mathematically).

I'd definitely pay more to get the 24x36 as it is a one-time expense and construction costs will only go up in time. My basement is about 1,000, and when I pictured myself using it as my shop, I did not feel it being a huge shop at all given the machines and stuff I now have. I would regret if I had a chance to build my shop and limit it to 24x24. But then your woodworking output and needs might be different from mine.