Richard the only reason tinker would have more stories is that he is so much younger  and hasn't forgotten them yet.

Gotta ponder that one and try to figure out which one of us you are poking fun at....

RMW

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 08, 2014, 07:51 PM

<snip>
RMW

PS - what the heck is a CAR doing in your workshop???

Car?  What car?!? 

The better question is: Why is that miniscule space in front of the car posing as a shop!?!

Fortunately the car is now a Honda CRV - smaller and much more useful than my Audi.   But the available space is still miniscule.  Right now I'm pondering how I can make that miniscule space into a usable shop WITH the cars in the garage.  And be able to quickly set up a even more usable shop when one or two cars are moved out of the garage.  (And then moved back in.)

This thread is far more that a casual read for me.   The garage/shop has been reorganized since that pic was taken.   Lots of old unusable stuff has been thrown out or given away.  Tools move around to be more accessible.   Screws and other fasteners have been stored in plastic containers.   Blah, blah, blah...  But there is lots more to do.   

This thread has given me lots of ideas.  The workbench on the back right will be replaced with a heavier, more functional one.   My MFT (old series) will be installed in a much heavier, super-MFT workbench with wheels for mobility.  In a few days, I'll post a general workshop thread and a workbench-specific thread looking for "inspiration" (I need lots).

Regards,

Dan.

Dan, the rolling MFT/Cart project is one I am dying to get back to. The (2) 80/20 frames you see in some of my photos are V1.0 & V1.1, and after putting them together, rolling them around a bit and staring at them for endless hours I am still not satisfied with either. V2.0 is in the planning stages, and both of the current ones will be disassembled and the 80/20 reused.

I have been gathering photos and sketches as I went, so I can chime in on your upcoming thread with some ideas on what not to do.

The positive news is that with the extra space & flexibility I now have it looks like I can add another work surface that folds down (or up), at the same height as the MFT/carts and it may even connect to them. Something modular that I can configure for the project du jour. It also occurs to me that using French cleats, at the correct height, I can add an extension to the MFT/cart connecting to the wall. Something like a rectangular frame of 80/20 with plywood, no legs and brackets on each end for the French cleats & cart.

I'm also trying to incorporate the little DeWalt contractor saw into one of the carts, and now Tinker has me thinking about the Bosch glider saw.

That all comes after completing the insulation and sheathing, which I hope to get done between Xmas & new years. Perhaps by the spring I can stop working ON the shop and start working IN the shop.

RMW

Another idea I have bouncing around among the rocks in my head is not really one of my own.  I have watched several vids where workbenches have been constructed with drop down sides, or ends.  The most recent example having been Peter Parfit's (New Brit Workshop)portable workBench project. His bench has bothe ends dropping down.  Others have shown drop down sides.

In my shop, the biggest space problem is walk around space front and back of my MFT bench.  I find that at least 90% of my cuts could happen with a table no wider that the narrowest dimension of my MFT 600, or narrower.  If I need to break down a piece of plywood, I do the preliminary cutting out at the barn and then bring into the shop for final dimensioning.  Many of those dimensioning cuts could be done on a narrow table, but occasionally, it would be necessary to have a wider table, in which case, I could raise an extra width in the form of a flip up extension. 

I have a couple of more solid benches along one wall of the shop, (where I do planing and chiseling >>> wood chiseling that is) but need to redesign a wall with tool cabinets.  I have been putting tool drawers and/or shelves, either in design stage (mostly in my head) or already build with leftover stock from other projects.  It would be inconvenient to have drop down top at both sides of my cutting bench (with swiss cheese holes as Festoy designed), but one design I have observed has flip down/up tabs located at drawer or shelf uprights.  A piece of MDF or ply wood could be stored out of the way to be brought out to the table when needed.

I am currently working with my MFT/3 and MFT 600 in tandem.  It is a long hazardous stroll to get from one side of my main bench (MFT/3) to the other.  I could eliminate one or the other, or both by building a narrower bench with flip downs.  One of my problems is that I have no overhead space to work on assemblies on either of the two MFT's.  I do have a couple of WorkMates (each from a different era and so much difference in heights).  Both of those have a full height and a lower with the legs folded.  An even lower height can maybe be established by folding the WM completely.  I have not dragged them out in several years, so I am not certain about that last option.  A frame could be constructed for assembly purposes that could be anchored to the WM at set at the lowest height and still have enough surface area for quite late assemblies in both horizontal area as well as height. 

I have found that in using the MFT/3 in tandem with the MFT 600, the older table is just a 2x4 width lower than the MFT/3.  When I need a longer surface for cutting long lumber or 8 foot plywood sheet, about 4 or more short lengths of 2x4 give me as close to level surface for cutting as I can get, considering my floor is a tad wavy. 

I am working on my Christmas presents for now, with working on a somewhat complicated trestle table for a cousin.  I don't really have room to do the top in my shop, so when I am finished with the Chrismas "shopping", I want to make some wall shelves/cabinets so i can get some of my tools into some sort of reasonable order.  Richard and Dan, you guys are shaming me into at least getting serious.  I'm going to find it necessary to stop visiting your posts from now on, as every now and then, THE BOSS looks over my shoulder.  Her idea is "DO IT NOW"
Tinker

I am thinking something about 2ft x 4ft with a backside that flips up 2 make it 3ft x 4ft
With a rolling cart, or one of my WorkMates on casters would give me variable length.

Another thought is something like Ron Paulks bench about 2x 6 with a drop down back side or cleats on both sides that would swing up and a piece of plywood to go over one of the sides.  A bench over four feet in width would close up all walking space. 

I keep bouncing ideas around and probably, when i get to actually do something, it will depend on my thought for the day.  When building stuff for my shop, i never use glue.  Always pocket screws so when i change my mind, nothing gets wasted other than time when i pull stuff apart for rebuild.  I have several small cabinets that are second, third and even fourth generation.

When i was doing masonry, once a brick or stone was in place, that was IT.  Never moved again.  This woodwork is tougher for making decisions.  Wood, nails and screws are so much easier to make changes than cement and stone.

I did have a job once where I built a stone wall five times.  Every time i finished, the owner decided he wanted it done differently.  We just tore it down and rearranged the stone to his specs and, of course, to what he could afford.  That was nearly 30 years ago.  I go past the house occasionally and I don't think I have been past more than four or five times before that wall has been redone.  I guess I caught the disease from him when it comes to my shop.
Tinker

Here ya go , This is what Ive been dealing with. I have figured out how to increase my storage space. Im building a cabinet to fit under the kapex MFT for starters. (Attachment Link)

Geeze, I see a ton of empty air space there! I could cram 2-3 more MFT's and probably a couple Uni-Saw's in there and still have room to stand... 

Seriously though, the space under the MFT/Kapex, etc. is low hanging fruit, ripe for storing some systainers, which frees up the walls for lumber, etc.

I hope to get the rest of the insulation in this weekend, then I have to make a decision on the sheathing for the walls. I really don't want to use drywall but it may be the path of least resistance.

RMW

I agree with the idea that sheetrock is kind of a last choice. Tinker made some great points:

• you can screw anything anywhere
• no need to find the studs for most non-structural loads
• you can paint it white for better light in the shop
• a 'hit' to the wall usually doesn't result in damage

Plus:
• adds structural rigidity
• may reduce sound transmission

The down side:
• More flammable than sheet rock - by far!
• You can't easily fill and tape the screw holes and seams, but from a few feet back i don't notice mine unless I look for them
• Can't be repaired like sheetrock - like if you cut an outlet hole in the wrong spot 

I have 5/8" particle board on my shop walls, painted white. It wasn't so much a planned choice as a lucky happenstance. When they closed the Builders Square stores many years ago, they sold the pallet racking separate from the sheets of particle board that were the 'shelves'. Not a lot of people wanted the sheets of particle board because they had been cut slightly under 4' x 8' to sit between the rails on the pallet racking. I can't remember how many trailers full I bought but I *do* remember that I paid a buck a sheet.

The studs in my shop are 24" on center, so I ended up cutting the length to 6 feet to go center-to-center on the studs. The walls are something like 10' 4-1/2" high, so I used the width (or 'height' on the walls) that they came in - I think it was 45" or something like that. I only cut the final top piece to fit. BTW, I had a Holzer panel saw at the time so cutting the sheets was a cinch. Handling them by myself, however, was a real pain in the back!!! Thinking about it again is causing me retroactive back pain.

If I ever build another shop I would use plywood as my first choice, and OSB as my second. If you should ever decide that you want the taped seams and smooth look of drywall, you could always install drywall over the top of the other materials and get the best of both worlds. Plus, if you did it right, you'd get fantastic sound deadening as a side bonus!

I think you would regret sheet rock in a shop.  FWIW, I used 3/4" fire resistant plywood for the walls in my shop.

I did my last shop walls with Advantech sheathing.  It is zero VOC, so it doesn't stink like regular OSB and it is much denser for screw holding and, in my opinion, looks better.  I whitewashed it to lighten it up, can patch holes with Durhams water putty.

Using the photo to find air space, yea buddy, I got plenty more room to fill. Ill start on the air space after I fill the spaces under the Kapex and MFT

Last week gave me some time off and good weather (50+ @ coastal southern NJ!!) so I got another chunk of work done on the shop remodel. After clearing out all the junk stuffed between the studs to do the electrical/insulation I ended up with a pile of material to be stored somewhere. With the nice weather I focused on building a material storage cart that fits into the weatherproof storage "shed" under the deck. Consider this to be an okay idea suffering from poor design/execution...

Among the original principals of this project was not storing bulk materials inside the shop, there is just not enough room. A couple years ago I built a weatherproof shed in the 40-some high inch space under the deck near the shop, and slapped up a material storage rack that proved to be inefficient:





It turned out to be hard to find materials and the back half of the rack was most empty, I had to crawl in to get short stuff. The new idea was to have a cart on rollers so I can pull it mostly out to get to the sides and to the material in the rear.







The idea seems to be okay, but I failed to allow for a cart that probably weighs 500-600#s +. There is a slight ramp up from the deck to the runners for the casters and I could not lift the casters onto it.



As it stands I had to use a lever to lift the end of the cart to get the forward casters onto the runners & I can only pull it out ~20" or so without having the front casters drop onto the deck again.





I am considering rebuilding it and putting 2 pairs of casters on the runners, inverted, and adding a runner to the underside of the cart. This would leave one set of casters on the cart in the front to roll on the deck, and 2 sets inverted and screwed the the floor of the shed with the runners on the cart resting on them. I think I can space the inverted casters to hold the weight of the total cart until I pull it out < 50%, then it will tip slightly and the front casters will pick up the load and roll on the deck. Kind of like how the lumber carts @ Home Depot pivot on center casters depending on where which end has the most weight, if that makes any sense.

As always, suggestions are welcome.

RMW

I think larger, better quality castors would help.

The reason for the runners is the lip on the edge of the shed, which I already sized the doors to rest on. I suppose I can equalize the height by reducing the lip and the height of the runners (Ron there is no structural reason for them, as you asked in an earlier post) to match the deck height and that may be enough to overcome the problem entirely. Then I can just add something to the bottom of the doors to raise them as necessary.

It would have been ideal for the deck and shed floor to be the same height, but the shed was built first and then I did not have enough height for the 2 by 8 deck joists when we decided to add it later.

I'll have to check the existing casters, which I believe are 500# capacity so I doubt they have plastic hubs. They are 6" OAL height, which was a compromise to retain as much usable height as possible.

Thanks for the input.

RMW

That's a great idea. I may try that first, since it involves the least amount of re-work of all the options.

Thanks!

RMW

Richard: I have been watching this thread for a while. I have one question. How is it working on the deck, do you loose many items thru the cracks?
 I have recently retired and going to redo my shop (that is as soon as I finish the requests from the wife). I basically have the same arrangement you do. I have an 8 by 12 shed that I am going To rehab into a shop/hangout. I also have Approx 2/3 of a one car garage to use.
 In addition to the normal hand tools and portable power tools I also have a metal lathe and milling machine along with a cabinet saw. 
  That said I should mention I live just up the AC Expressway from you in Williamstown. I like alot of your ideas and will incorporate some of them into my plan.
   Perhaps I might even take photos nd document the process it might be a hoot to do it. Chris

Tinker

My "temporary" fixes tend to become long term semi-permanent fixes.

I vote for closing in the walls while the stuff is down. Throw up those sawhorse work stations on the deck and cut some drywall or ply or whatever.

Ron