Festool Owners Group

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Workshops and Mobile Vehicle-Based Shops => Topic started by: treesner on August 26, 2020, 07:34 PM

Title: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: treesner on August 26, 2020, 07:34 PM
Anyone sealed their concrete garage floor? what about dyed the concrete then sealed it?

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Paint-Concrete-Coatings-Concrete-Sealers/N-5yc1vZcj9b

I was looking into doing the rock solid metallic epoxy (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-RockSolid-70-oz-Gunmetal-Metallic-Garage-Floor-Kit-299743/206369577) floor but everyone says you need double what it calls for so for 616sqft it would be around 900$ in material, plus a lot of mixed results. Starting to think maybe I just seal the concrete.

Let me know if you have had success with the dying or sealing or thoughts on best way to treat it. I'd like to do this before I start moving tools and dirtbikes in.

here's an example of sealed garage floor, gives it a nice shiny look
(https://www.concretedecor.net/wp-content/uploads/CD/assets/Image/archives/CD1907/320_sealing_floors/basement_1.jpg)

here's an example of stained concrete, I just havent been able to find my info on how well it holds up for garages and the process
(https://arrowheaddeck.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/stained-concrete-concrete-floors-az-concrete-floors-interior-stained-flooring-6-2.jpg)

this is the rock solid metallic epoxy
(https://allgaragefloors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/RockSolid-metallic-garage-floor-silver-bullet.jpg)

Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: jobsworth on August 26, 2020, 10:22 PM
Following
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: CeeJay on August 26, 2020, 11:28 PM
Yeah I sealed my shop floor with the RockSolid gray epoxy.

It does use more than stated on the packaging, about 140% for me.

I found the small shrinkage cracks in the concrete came through the epoxy so I think I should have sealed it first, which may have also reduced the usage.

Nevertheless it has held up really well. Stands up well to heavy machinery being moved etc, and clean up of spilled paint, glues, oils etc is very good. Very easy to keep clean.

Overall I recommend it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: treesner on August 28, 2020, 01:35 PM
 just emailed legacy industrial per someones recommendations

"what dye and seal would you recommend for my carport and garage? or should I not do the carport since it is semi outdoors? gets to about 105* summer and 25* winter" 

they recommended: 

delta dye (https://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/31556-clear-finish-on-garage-floor/?tab=comments#comment-419502) and HD6600MMA https://www.legacyindustrial.net/products/concrete-sealers/hd6600-mma-concrete-sealer.html

I'll probably add the soft skid fine to for the grip  



Wonder if it would hold up well in the direct sun as I have that pad in front of the garage too 

(https://www.woodtalkonline.com/uploads/monthly_2020_08/IMG_8655.thumb.JPG.75bb6b9daec39c7e9fa9bddec2e9fa31.JPG)
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: treesner on September 02, 2020, 02:50 AM
my head keeps spinning with all the options.. 

since I'll have motorcycles on half the shop oil and gas might be spilled which led me to this Foundation Armor UTN60 which claims to be resistant of gas/oil and seems to get good reviews. thinking I'll dye the concrete with a grey/dark grey marble look and if stains get down maybe they'll disappear?

https://www.foundationarmor.com/aliphatic-urethane-coating

https://www.amazon.com/Aliphatic-Urethane-Concrete-Coating-Resistance/dp/B00Q00MG88/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=utn60&qid=1599029264&sr=8-1

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Foundation-Armor-UTN60-3-gal-Clear-High-Gloss-2-Part-Concrete-and-Garage-Floor-Coating-with-Oil-Gas-and-Scratch-Resistance-UTN603GAL/205719806

3 gallons = 274$ and covers around 800-1000 sqft, so I think I can get 2 coats out of it on my 616sqft garage
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: mkasdin on September 08, 2020, 02:58 AM
I did a large 700 square foot floor about 15 years ago... three colors, used a sponge and rags to get the various colors to bled through each other. Triple S chemicals out of Los Angeles was the product. I used a water based sealer. It was very nice, but a lot of work. It’s kind of an art, not difficult more like finger painting trying to get the look you want.
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: treesner on September 08, 2020, 12:11 PM
talking to more concrete people I'm going to go with an acetone dye to get the grey I want

https://www.polishedconcretesolutions.com/ameripolish-dye-n-seal-solvent-based-concrete-dye/
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: mattbyington on September 08, 2020, 08:11 PM
@treesner highly recommend Epoxy!

Here's mine:

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: jobsworth on September 08, 2020, 08:38 PM
@mattbyington

Hey matt what did you use on your floor?
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: mattbyington on September 08, 2020, 09:00 PM
@jobsworth I had a local Epoxy company come out and do it! It's 1 coat of epoxy with the "flakes", and 2 coats of clear on top of it.

I use OTEpoxy, a local company here in the bay area. I think they did pretty good. It costs somewhere around $2K... can't remember exactly...maybe 1600. it was a while ago. but highly recommend doing it.

Matt
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: treesner on September 09, 2020, 06:56 PM
@jobsworth I had a local Epoxy company come out and do it! It's 1 coat of epoxy with the "flakes", and 2 coats of clear on top of it.

I use OTEpoxy, a local company here in the bay area. I think they did pretty good. It costs somewhere around $2K... can't remember exactly...maybe 1600. it was a while ago. but highly recommend doing it.

Matt

with the amount of time I spent researching products I think 1600 would be worth it.
I got quotes for 3200 though and it was only flake ive been looking for more natural look like metallic epoxies, non of the companies would offer that that I talked to
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: jobsworth on September 10, 2020, 12:19 PM
hmmm I wonder if rubber mats would be cheaper and better alternative
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: rvieceli on September 10, 2020, 01:32 PM
@jobsworth I'm a big fan of anti fatique mats in the shop. My knees can tell a big difference.

You might want to take a look at rubber flooring covers used a lot in the horse industry. They come in different thicknesses and surface patterns as well. Here is a link for an online vendor, but you may be able to find a source locally.

https://www.rubberflooringinc.com/horse-stall-mats.html

Ron
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: jobsworth on September 10, 2020, 01:42 PM
those look great thanks
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: rst on September 10, 2020, 04:34 PM
Tractor Supply has 4'x3' - 1/2" mats for $27.00 in our area. seriously considering that route for my shop.  I picked up and install my 42" commercial steel entrance last Friday.  I've been buying commercial/industrial entrances for 40 years.  Before COVID, an entrance like this would cost me $700 -800.  This one cost me $1100.00 and I installed.  The 2" thick overhead door with opener, installed is only costing $1800.00.   [crying]  Then to add insult to injury, I bought a heavy duty deadbolt for the door, $38.00, only to discover it came with a 5 pin key cylinder.  I rekeyed only to discover that my six pin house keys would not work in this cylinder...sooo I ordered a six pin cylinder...$48.75 to rekey.  Cheeez
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: craftsmanconcrete on October 16, 2021, 09:03 AM
Treesner suggested a solvent-based dye for their garage floor, however, this is not ideal as any spilled solvents may damage the sealer and displace the added pigment. The sealers designed for solvent-based pigments are either xylene or acetone-borne acrylic and will be damaged by mineral spirits, acetone, xylene, gasoline, etc.

The best practice for a garage floor depends on whether the concrete is freshly poured or already has damage from prior use.

For freshly poured concrete, light sanding with a swing buffer and an application of a concrete specific polyurethane can preserve a natural concrete look, and is incredibly durable. Application is relatively easy and can be DIY installed, especially with the help of a friend.

If your concrete slab is already damaged by oil spills or other contaminants, an opaque epoxy system is a better idea. Most commercial epoxy systems have either epoxy flake or quartz sand broadcast to rejection to increase durability and slip resistance. The systems that are purchased at home depot or other big box retail have the flake as an aesthetic input only, and will be quite slippery in standing water conditions.

While slightly more difficult to DIY, the industry standard for durable garage flooring is a broadcast system.
This would be:
Basecoat of 100% solids epoxy with sand or flake broadcast into it for rejection.
Topcoat of concrete specific polyurethane. Depending on the viscosity of poly it may take 2-3 coats to get consistent coverage. The poly can be clear or colored depending on the aesthetic goal.

While polyaspartic is often used in commercial systems, it has a really fast cure time and is very difficult to DIY install. It's also generally quite viscous which makes it more difficult to avoid roller lines, etc. I'd avoid it for a DIY install.

In most large cities there will be a commercial Sherwin Williams that sells decent quality epoxy products. 100% solids epoxy base coat and high solids poly topcoat are the keys for a long-lasting install. Other brands to look for are Sika and Westcoat. Both will be sold through distributors.

Torginol  (https://www.torginol.com/colorflakes/) is the main manufacturer of color flakes and will sell individuals 40lb boxes. Most 2 car garages will require 2-3 boxes. Smaller flake is more in style currently--1/8th" or less.  I used 2.5 boxes in my 600 sq. ft. garage.

Heres a pic of my garage. I've spilled solvents, gear oil, gasoline, etc on the floor and it wipes right up without any staining.
[attachimg=1]

Here's more info about commercial epoxy floor systems vs big box retail systems. (https://craftsmanconcretefloors.com/professional-epoxy-garage-floors-vs-diy-epoxy-kits) Depending on the amount of abuse the floor will see, it can easily be worth the extra $800 in materials to install a proper commercial-style system. Big box retail systems are quite prone to flaking and failure, especially with DIY concrete prep techniques.

Jeremy



Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: Sparktrician on October 16, 2021, 11:31 AM
Well-finished floors like that look wonderful - until you drop a small spring or screw.  You'll pay Merry heck to find the darn thing on a speckled floor.   [mad]
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: craftsmanconcrete on October 16, 2021, 04:34 PM
Well-finished floors like that look wonderful - until you drop a small spring or screw.  You'll pay Merry heck to find the darn thing on a speckled floor.   [mad]

Absolutely agree. A large part of the draw to these speckled floors is that they obfuscate dirt, debris, and other contaminants. They're also seamless to repair as additional broadcast material can always be used to patch any gouges or other damage.

Sand broadcast with a white topcoat is commonly used in pharma manufacturing, breweries, etc for the reason you alluded to--its easy to find dropped parts and you can also see when the floor is dirty. Otherwise its functionally the same install with a different aesthetic.

Jeremy
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: tsmi243 on October 16, 2021, 04:35 PM
Well-finished floors like that look wonderful - until you drop a small spring or screw.  You'll pay Merry heck to find the darn thing on a speckled floor.   [mad]

Hard agree.  Same problem on granite countertops.
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: tallgrass on October 18, 2021, 03:45 AM
I do some contract work for a local aerospace company and their floor is an obnoxious shade of yellow. In their assembly area. However, you can spot anything on it. you get used to it, when something is dropped, you love it.
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: Vondawg on October 18, 2021, 11:05 AM
@craftsmanconcrete ….thanks for all the good info !
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: mino on February 06, 2022, 05:34 AM
I would go the other way here.

Walking /and working/ on a hard concrete floor is no fun for your body. You need soft shoes and those are rarely stable and vice versa.

I would still seal the concrete - but not to have it look nice/be smooth etc. but just enough to protect it from damage. Would make sure the surface is still kinda rough, or is antislip. E.g. by sanding it lightly after sealing is way cheaper than using a special anti-slip coat.

Then put on some rubber surface on which I would be walking on, placing the movable/wheeled things on etc. Would put it everywhere except where heavy machinery will be. The rubber surface is where I would invest the most in.

Ideally, would go with big tiles so they can be moved out of place when machinery/cabinets are being rearranged.


One thing - if the floor is fresh-y. I would not treat it with any vapor-closing sealant for the first few years. Some single-paint of acrylic sanded over to protect the surface would be all.
It takes a couple years for concrete to properly settle and it changes shape (contracts) during this time ever so slightly. Ideally, one would give it the time, then, 5-10 yrs later, plan to hire a crew with concrete flattener to flatten it again and only then put on some final sealant. When sealed, water escapes more slowly and CO2 cannot get in to hard-cure the surface, so it makes the "shape-changing" period longer but is still happens. Un-leveling any precisely leveled floor.

In our shop the concrete contracted after flattening so is now about 1/2" lower in the center of the 10'x10' pieces and it is a pain. Unfortunately in a rented space fix is a no-go ...
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: tallgrass on February 06, 2022, 04:47 PM
I use horse mats in my shop. indestructible, and easily replicable. The best thing about them , you do not have to tear your shop apart and so on.
Title: Re: sealing concrete floor of shop
Post by: dwillis on February 06, 2022, 06:32 PM
I recently built a house, workshop, and garage using a slab on grade with a steel trowel finish. The design called for a finished concrete slab and I used a product from Prosoco, LS Premium concrete sealer, hardener, and densifier (https://prosoco.com/product/ls/). It's a waterborne product, applied with a simple garden sprayer. Application is quick and easy. So far I'm pleased with the results after two years of of use in all three spaces. Since I had excess product I also applied it to my concrete driveway and it seems to have held up to rain, snow, traffic, and spills.