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Author Topic: Deciding between table saws  (Read 9671 times)

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Offline Achtepa

  • Posts: 8
Deciding between table saws
« on: January 20, 2017, 09:21 AM »
Hi Guys,

I am currently in the market for a new table saw (upgrading from my r4512) and deciding between sawstop 3hp cabinet saw and the Hammer K3 Winner. I know both of them are completely different beasts but I was concerned about precision and mainly tearout on the K3. I am used to zero clearance inserts and other than DIY solutions for the hammer I couldn't find anything out there available. How does it handle small work like small boxes etc ? I was pretty set on the slider until I had that to consider.

Any help or feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
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Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 984
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 11:31 AM »
If I were buying again, I'd get the SawStop.
*  Safety.
*  I do a lot of ripping, and sliding tables don't help with that.
   - I have augmented my table saw fence with Jim Tolpin "Table Saw Magic" jigs that do help a lot with that.
*  I don't do a lot of large panel type of work that would justify a sliding table.
   - Once or twice a year I cut pieces over 4'x4' on my saw.
   - I can usually break down plywood with a track saw before getting to the table saw.
   - I don't use plywood much, and then mostly for jigs and fixtures.  Most of my work is with solid wood.
*  I made a very accurate and relatively large sled that works great for smaller pieces.
   - It will accommodate pieces up to two feet wide.
   - I can set stops up to 30" out for length.
   - I can balance pieces up to 4' long comfortably.
   - One of the best investments in shop fixtures that I have ever made.
*  I also have a very accurate Bosch miter saw for crosscutting up to 12" wide stuff.
*  Easy to get service for SawStop in the US.

So that's how/why I would choose, highly dependent on what I do in the shop.
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Offline quietguy

  • Posts: 491
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 01:00 PM »
I have the SawStop 3ph PCS with a 30" table, and have been extremely happy with it.  I looked at the Hammer, but I just didn't have the shop space.  I was pretty set on a PM66, but friends and neighbors occasionally use my shop, so I opted for the safety of the SawStop. 

Build quality is similar to the Unisaw and PM66, and they have a pretty good accessory ecosystem. 

I do think it matters how you are going to use it.  Most of my sheet good cutting gets done with my TS55, but do occasionally run panels through the tablesaw for final sizing and squaring. 
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Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 01:08 PM »
If you have the finances and shop space for a sliding table saw nothing beats it for what you can use it for and the easy of processing sheet goods for repetitive cross cuts and ripping.
Not sure if the hammer has a scoring blade. It I'd recommend one with a scoring blade if you want chip free cuts on a regular basis. Nothing beats it. With a miter gauge on the sliding table you can cross cut miters like I do instead of moving to the miter saw.
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Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 392
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 04:04 PM »
Quote from: HarveyWildes on January 20, 2017, 11:31 AM
*  I do a lot of ripping, and sliding tables don't help with that.

True if you do not have a long sliding table.  Hammer offers their sliding table saws with 31", 49", 79", and 126" lengths.  So 2.5, 4, 6.5, 10.5 feet long.  With a long slider it is super easy to rip wood.  Or at least to get the first straight edge on a piece of wood.  Just clamp it on the sliding table and run it through the blade.  Then for regular finish ripping just use the fence like all table saws.
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Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 05:31 PM »
nothing better for ripping panels then a sliding table saw. you can process parts from sheet goods in no time.
faster, more accurate and with a scoring blade chip free and splinter free in the same operation.

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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4001
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 05:56 PM »
guys, guys... all this talk about 10 foot sliders ???

Quote from: Achtepa on January 20, 2017, 09:21 AM
...How does it handle small work like small boxes etc ? ....

I'm thinking we are missing some machines.
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Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 06:07 PM »
Handles small boxes just as nicely as a small table saw does.
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Offline johnbro

  • Posts: 130
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2017, 01:21 AM »
I just sold my '98 PM66 and got a SawStop PCS 3HP with 30" table. I thought I was going to trade precision and cut quality for the safety features but not at all. The SS has great DC which is a plus; the cut quality is as good as the PM and the ergonomics and ease of use is superior.

Never used a big sliding table saw but it seems they really shine for doing sheet goods. In exchange you have to deal with throwing big heavy pieces of plywood onto the slide. Frankly I like cutting them on the floor with my TS55 but different strokes... There's no way I could justify the huge space requirement of a big Hammer so I will just happily use my SS for the rest of my days.
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TS 55, 3 guide rails, MFT 1080, RO 150, ETS 150/3, MFK 700, OF 1400, Kapex 120, Domino 500, CT 26

Offline Poindexter

  • Posts: 144
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2017, 06:32 AM »
I just picked up a K3 over the SawStop because I work with a lot of wet rough lumber. For squaring rough boards, the slider is amazing!  But man o man does it eat space.
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Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4183
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2017, 10:48 AM »
Martin, fortis, whitney, greelee, holzher, scmi, etc.
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Offline Poindexter

  • Posts: 144
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2017, 11:09 AM »
Oh, and as for your question about small stuff on a slider.... you have two options: lock the slider and use it like a "western" table saw or make yourself a Fritz & Franz (probably spelling wrong) jig that better holds smaller pieces. The FF jig is basically the "crosscut sled" of sliding table saws.

I'm currently working on a way to make my 79" slider rip 10' rough cut boards utilizing a type of FF jig. If I am successful I will post about it. Due to traveling a bit the most progress I've made has been in my head, but I do some good thinking at 30,000 feet :)

Here is the jig:  http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/fritz-and-franz-jig-for-the-sliding-table-saw/
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 11:11 AM by Poindexter »
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Offline Achtepa

  • Posts: 8
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2017, 02:11 PM »
Thanks for all the answers! After deliberating it for a few I think i'm going to go with the SawStop PCS. Now thinking about which fence to get, i've never used Bies fences before as i'm currently using an incra TS-LS. So i'm kinda debating sticking with the stock one, going with a Super Cool Tools Aluminum Extrusion fence or another Incra TS-LS.
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Offline estley

  • Posts: 125
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2017, 06:52 PM »
I have the SS PCS 3HP, with the Bies fence. It's my first (and probably last) big boy table saw, my two previous saws were a crappy craftsman benchtop, and then al old craftsman contractors saw.

So, from that perspective the Bies fence is unbelievable. I've played with the idea of the incra system, but, since I have a routher table on the extension wing, it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I also saw the VSCT one, and I was intrigued, but I think it's one of those things that sounds really good in theory, but you end up not using it the way you thought.

I did see some place, that sold some aluminum extrusions that attach to the Bies fence instead of the lamitated sides it comes with, looked like an interesting alternative.
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Offline Bubbacuse77

  • Posts: 8
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2017, 07:03 AM »
Quote from: HarveyWildes on January 20, 2017, 11:31 AM
If I were buying again, I'd get the SawStop.
*  Safety.
*  I do a lot of ripping, and sliding tables don't help with that.
   - I have augmented my table saw fence with Jim Tolpin "Table Saw Magic" jigs that do help a lot with that.
*  I don't do a lot of large panel type of work that would justify a sliding table.
   - Once or twice a year I cut pieces over 4'x4' on my saw.
   - I can usually break down plywood with a track saw before getting to the table saw.
   - I don't use plywood much, and then mostly for jigs and fixtures.  Most of my work is with solid wood.
*  I made a very accurate and relatively large sled that works great for smaller pieces.
   - It will accommodate pieces up to two feet wide.
   - I can set stops up to 30" out for length.
   - I can balance pieces up to 4' long comfortably.
   - One of the best investments in shop fixtures that I have ever made.
*  I also have a very accurate Bosch miter saw for crosscutting up to 12" wide stuff.
*  Easy to get service for SawStop in the US.

So that's how/why I would choose, highly dependent on what I do in the shop.

Ditto, sounds like my situation and words exactly, so I'll save time typing
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Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 535
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2017, 08:07 AM »
I have the Incra TSIII on my Delta and you would have to pry it from my cold dead hands...being able to set to 1/32" (0.8mm) with an accuracy of a few thousandths of an inch in seconds and being able to dial in an odd dimension with the same accuracy in a few more seconds is fantastic.  I have a router table on the left and for quick setups I use an auxiliary fence on the router and have made a calibrated spacer to go between the Incra in tablesaw position and the aux fence so the Incra reads true for the aux fence.  If I need to use the split Wonderfence on the router table it takes about 2 minutes to slide the positioner over to the stops for the router table.
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Offline Steve Rowe

  • Posts: 833
  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: Deciding between table saws
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2017, 09:04 PM »
Quote from: HarveyWildes on January 20, 2017, 11:31 AM
*  I do a lot of ripping, and sliding tables don't help with that.
   

Having used a slider for going on 13 years where 95% of my work is hardwoods (not sheetgoods), I also do a lot of ripping but on the slider.   It isn't magic, every slider comes with a rip fence.  Even if you purchase a slider with the shortest possible sliding table, at worst, it is no different than a standard table saw at ripping.  If you purchase a longer table, your ripping options improve dramatically with those that are much safer than a conventional cabinet saw such as straight line ripping, parallel fence assemblies and even a shop made Fritz and Franz jig (very inexpensive to make and highly effective). 


[OP] - I have either made or purchased zero clearance inserts for every slider I have owned.  I honestly don't find a lot of use for them but YMMV.  While it is not clear what you mean by precision, what makes you think that a Hammer is any less precise than a Sawstop?  As far as small boxes, I make them all the time with the slider.  Also, with my shopmade Fritz and Franz jig, I can cut 12mm cubes fast, safe, and easy all day long on the slider (Note; cube size is only limited by the thickness of my shop made stops which could be made thinner).  Count me in the slider camp:  As nice a tablesaw as the Sawstop is, dollar for dollar, I would go with the slider.  Just be aware, there is a learning curve and the biggest mistake most new slider owners make is trying to use their new slider just like they did their old cabinet saw (DAMHIK).

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