Author Topic: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)  (Read 1542 times)

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Offline jeffinsgf

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LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« on: June 11, 2020, 01:33 PM »
I ordered 10 x 8' Barrina LED 5000K lights. Particularly over my bench area, I want it bright and even. With 9 foot ceiling height, how far apart would you guys who have installed LEDs place the fixtures? Since the connector cables they provide are 4-feet, I'm guessing something around that is optimal???

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2020, 01:54 PM »
Work area and task lighting deserves more attention on the FOG as a topic:

for all the brightness LED's can provide, keep in mind the diffusion in addition to placement/spacing of ightsources to minimize shadows - such as when you're bending over to take a closer look.

Factor in the color and reflectivity of the walls or whatever constitutes "wall" such as cabinets, etc.

I checked our lighting with a newly purchased handheld lightmeter to see what we're getting across our space. Just for kicks I dug out my decades old GREENLEE lightmeter and discovered signifianct reading variances between these instruments.

It took me a minute to realize the GREENLEE has a diffuser which providesd "area" metering while the "new" meter essentially acts like a spotmeter. You photographers out there will recognize the significance right away.

I'll be interested in contributions from others. Time to bring shop lighting out of the middle ages [wink]

Hans

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2020, 02:03 PM »
The Barrina fixtures are good looking and easy to install but they’re not the best for task lighting because the two rows of leds are mounted at 45*s off straight down. The spread of light is about 220* so the ceiling itself has to reflect or you loose a lot of the light. If mounted directly on a white flat ceiling they’re good for ambient lighting but unless the ceiling is high you’ll have bright light shining right into your eyes when you glance up. Also, at 5000*k they’re a little too cool. I prefer 4000*k.

These 10,000 lumen 4000*k shop lights are on sale at Rockler. These are great for over the bench. The leds are mounted to point straight down and light is very bright and a nice color.

Offline Cheese

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2020, 03:45 PM »
Jeff, I hung my Barrina LED’s from a 7 1/2’ ceiling at a 40” center to center distance.  That allows for the connection on each end and the 90 degree radius. 

I mounted them directly to the unpainted floor joists. I have no issues with glare and the 3 separate 8’ LEDs are minimally twice as bright as the 4 each 8’ fluorescents with reflectors that I removed.

Offline AstroKeith

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2020, 04:03 PM »
After I upgraded to LED fixtures I had a very good overall light coverage. But I found that a few real weren't so good, especially at the bandsaw and drill press. So I added little LED spot lights that are mounted on a stiff sprung clip and bendy stalks ( from amazon of course). These made a great difference to my accuracy.
Retired engineer/scientist

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2020, 04:06 PM »
Thanks, Cheese.



Offline Peter_C

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2020, 04:12 PM »
My preference is for around 3000k. Not blue, and not yellow. To each their own.

Offline Cheese

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2020, 05:34 PM »
My preference is for around 3000k. Not blue, and not yellow. To each their own.

To my eyes 3000k is yellow, 4100k is white/neutral, 5000k is blue and 6000k starts to turn purple.

Offline rvieceli

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2020, 06:15 PM »
Jeff, I hung my Barrina LED’s from a 7 1/2’ ceiling at a 40” center to center distance.  That allows for the connection on each end and the 90 degree radius. 


@Cheese does this mean in a row like the ties on a railroad track ( parallel to each other) OR in a row like the rails on a railroad track (end to end)?

Thanks
Ron

Offline Peter_C

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2020, 08:53 PM »
My preference is for around 3000k. Not blue, and not yellow. To each their own.

To my eyes 3000k is yellow, 4100k is white/neutral, 5000k is blue and 6000k starts to turn purple.
I looked up what I have and they are 3500k. Still rather be more towards the yellow than blue, and 5000k is way to blue for me. Can always augment with portable side lighting for things like auto body work.

Offline Cheese

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2020, 12:08 AM »
]I looked up what I have and they are 3500k. Still rather be more towards the yellow than blue, and 5000k is way to blue for me. Can always augment with portable side lighting for things like auto body work.

Yes, 3500k is still biased more towards the yellow spectrum than to the blue spectrum, 3000k is definitely yellow based, however at 3500k it's slowly becoming a more white light source than a yellow light source.
Unfortunately, it's not a linear function, so 3500k while easing towards the white side, still has a more distinctly yellow/neutral color while 4100k is definitely more white. Thus a slight 600k difference in color temperature yields drastically different overall color rendering results.

Ya, this whole lighting thing is really tricky. Especially when it comes to LED's. For fluorescents the temperature color of the lamp is controlled by the phosphors that are used inside of the lamps, and that puts a stake in the ground. For LED's, it's a combination of the semiconductor material and the electronics that control the lamp. In the past, you couldn't make 3000k LEDs appear to have the light qualities of 5000k LED's but recently that barrier has also been breeched. Now there are electronic controls that allow you to continuously vary the color temperature of the LED from 2800k to 6000K. 

I have outdoor lighting in the front yard that is in the 2800k-3200k range. I make it a point to ensure that any additional lighting added to the front yard remains within this same color temperature.

The outdoor lighting in the back yard varies between 4100k-5000k and even though there is a 900k difference in color variation, it all works rather well because the eye doesn't pick up on the color temperature differences unless you stare at the lighting.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 12:40 AM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2020, 12:30 AM »
@Cheese does this mean in a row like the ties on a railroad track ( parallel to each other) OR in a row like the rails on a railroad track (end to end)?
 
I really like your analogy Ron...one of the best ever.  [big grin]  I wish all conversations could be so simple and so easy to understand.  [not worthy]

It's definitely the railroad track thing, it's just incredible the amount of light these things produce and also the quality of light that these things provide. There's no going back...that's only a fools solution.

Offline rvieceli

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2020, 06:59 AM »
@Cheese does this mean in a row like the ties on a railroad track ( parallel to each other) OR in a row like the rails on a railroad track (end to end)?
 
I really like your analogy Ron...one of the best ever.  [big grin]  I wish all conversations could be so simple and so easy to understand.  [not worthy]

It's definitely the railroad track thing, it's just incredible the amount of light these things produce and also the quality of light that these things provide. There's no going back...that's only a fools solution.

@Cheese

Thanks I think. Unfortunately I think you put me in the that was a great commercial but i can't remember what you were selling category.  [eek]

So was it TIES or RAILS?  [big grin]

Ron




Offline Cheese

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2020, 10:17 AM »

So was it TIES or RAILS?  [big grin]


 [doh]  Ties  [doh]

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2020, 07:33 AM »
 
I really like your analogy Ron...one of the best ever.  [big grin]  I wish all conversations could be so simple and so easy to understand.  [not worthy]


+1. Nothing could have been clearer.  [smile]

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2020, 01:47 AM »
After running through several Home Depot LED fixtures, I bought 8 from Rockler. I have 1 over each of my two MFTs and each of my big machines. I have no clue as to “color” but they have lasted over a year of nearly continuous use.

I do have 2 over the big SawStop. I need more light there for some reason.
Birdhunter

Offline NuthinFancy

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Re: LED Lighting Help (Cheese, Please)
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2020, 03:28 PM »
When I was designing my workshop, I ran across this link (Visual Interior Tool) which proved quite helpful in determining the number and location of lights for my 30' x 14' shop.

Lighting is very subjective, and my eyes are not getting any younger, so I opted to be on the high side when designing for footcandles.  Side note: foot candles and lumens are different units of measurement - take care when comparing lighting units

I designed the shop with a 10-foot ceiling, knowing I would be putting in a drop ceiling grid, primarily so I could use 2' x 4' 'troffer' lighting fixtures.  This gave me a wide variety of LED (fluorescents were never a consideration) options to choose from and made installation relatively easy. 

After much experimentation in the visual tool, I decided on three rows of four lights oriented lengthwise along the long dimension of the rectangular footprint of the shop with each row on separate switch by the door.  This allows me to use as much or as little light/energy as needed.  I rarely use all three rows, even at night, but at times I am pleased to have the option of a little too much light.

I choose 5000k for the color and very pleased - not too yellow, not too white.  Bought the fixtures from Bee's Lighting.  One unit was DOA and they replaced it at no cost to me, including shipping.  I would buy from them again.

I hope this is useful information.
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."  Red Green