Author Topic: First Simple Cabinet for shop  (Read 9944 times)

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Offline Canon Sue

  • Posts: 7
First Simple Cabinet for shop
« on: January 17, 2009, 07:50 AM »
Some time ago, I asked a question about building a cabinet using my Domino. Matthew reminded me that I promised a picture when I was finished, so here is my first cabinet. I used scrap wood, so you can see that the face frame is walnut, the door rails and stiles are oak and the rest is birch plywood.

-Sue

« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 07:51 AM by Canon Sue »

Offline Matthew Schenker

  • Posts: 2620
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2009, 07:55 AM »
Sue,
Thanks for posting the photo!

Looks like an excellent project.  Now, you know we're a curious bunch around here, so guess what?  We need details!  Tell us how you built it, what techniques you used, the Festool tools involved, and whatever else you want to share.

Stay in touch,
Matthew
FOG Designer and Creator

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2009, 09:27 AM »
WOW, walnut cabinets in your shop!  Very up-scale.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Notorious T.O.D.

  • Posts: 506
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2009, 11:29 AM »
Very nice!  Looks like you did a great job with your first cabinet.

Best,
Todd

Offline Greg in Memphis

  • Posts: 80
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2009, 12:24 PM »
That is one nice looking cabinet, Sue.
If that's just your first try, I'd say you were a natural.
Are you gonna use french cleats to mount it?
If that was my first cabinet, I'd probably want to take it with me whenever I moved.

Keep up the good work.

Greg

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2009, 01:45 PM »
Very nice.  I'm going to hide pictures of your cabinet from my wife... there too nice.

As Matthew said, we need details.  A photo of the inside, showing how the doors are hung.  What tools and techniques did you use?  What material was used for the door panels?  Why is the walnut frame only on three sides?  How are you going to hang this cabinet?  Is is part of a set?

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2009, 02:33 PM »
It is going to look even more gorgeous with a clear coat on it!
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Canon Sue

  • Posts: 7
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2009, 08:26 PM »
Thanks for the all the good words and encouragement.  As I said this was my first cabinet, so essentially, it was a learning project.

Dominos were used in the carcass, face frame and doors. I also used pocket screws instead of clamping. Yes, overkill, but I wanted to experiment with those as well. I used cheap euro hinges to learn how to put those in. The carcass is made out of borg 3/4 birch ply, face frame (it does have 4 sides it only looks like it is three sides in the picture), is walnut, the doors stiles and rails are oak with a 1/2 inch birch ply for the panel. I routed a 1/4 inch groove in the rails and stiles and then routed a rabbet in the panel. (I wanted to use 1/4 ply panel but I did not have any decent 1/4 ply at the time.) I also used a shelf pin jig (Rocklers) to drill the shelf pin.

There was no rhyme or reason for the different wood. I simply looked in my wood rack for leftovers that were long enough. No fancy finish this time, I just put a couple coats of shellac on when I completed the cabinet. It is currently on my shop wall and yes, I did use a french cleat to hang it. I like french cleats a lot, but I also use them because I work alone and that is the only way I can do it by myself.

It was a great project to do as all I concentrated on was joinery technique. My next project is a simple cabinet box with drawers for under my workbench. I am planning on building my own kitchen cabinets sometime in the next 5 years or so. For those cabinets, I plan to use very good quality materials and finishes.

Thanks again for a great forum. I learn so much from all of you.

-Sue


Offline Overtime

  • Posts: 265
  • Eastern Iowa USA
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2009, 11:37 PM »
 Very nice cabinet,

Great use of scrap wood too. The doors look nice and square  ;D  are they inset, overlay or rabbited ?
And what did you use for the back ? 3/4" also ?

It's heavy isn't it ?  :D   But Nice and solid.

Quote from Canon Sue
"I am planning on building my own kitchen cabinets sometime in the next 5 years or so. For those cabinets, I plan to use very good quality materials and finishes."

Get very good at finishing if you are not already, and if you will be using high dollar plywood - "quality materials" try to get some scraps or pieces of good ply - walnut, cherry or anything with a hardwood veneer and begin to get accustomed to sanding and finishing schedule before building. I bring this up because allot of the so called quality ply has a very very thin layer of veneer which leaves little room for sanding and no room for errors.
  I'm working with some now  ;) Teak
 



Patrick

Offline Canon Sue

  • Posts: 7
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2009, 07:50 AM »
Overtime,
The doors are overlay and the back is very cheap 1/4 luan ply, which I will never use again. Since that time, I have gone down and purchased some nice 1/4 inch baltic birch ply for backs and drawer bottoms. However, for my drawer boxes for my work bench, I will probably use 1/2 inch for back and drawer bottoms.

However speaking of doors, for my kitchen, I am thinking that I want inset doors, so that means a few practice shop or laundry cabinets with inset doors is also in my near future.

Thanks for the advice about the finishing. I will need to start saving for a spray system. I will also need to develop a better work flow so to not bang the material around so much. I have been working hard to organize the shop so I don't have to move every tool and project to get to another tool and project.  :-\
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 07:53 AM by Canon Sue »

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2009, 05:41 PM »
Sue,

You may have seen the recent Norm Abrams (New Yankee Workshop) series on building kitchen cabinets.  Norm used 3/4 inch ply for the backs as well as the sides.  I believe the reason he did so was to enable hanging them by screws through the backs.  I build a couple of cabinets for my garage/shop, hung with French cleats.  I like to use 3/8 or 1/2 inch thick back panels because most of that 1/4 inch plywood, even much of the baltic birch I am able to buy today is not very flat.

It's not clear to me from the photos you posted, but when you get to building your kitchen cabinets, you're likely to want to build the end units with their sides extending beyond the back panels so you can scribe and trim the sides to fit your wall.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2009, 05:51 PM »
If you are building cabinets for your own home and not making tons of cabinets why not use 3/4" all the time. It is not costing you much more at all. Actually, the last two kitchens I did I used 3/4" and it may have cost an additional 200.00 for the entire kitchen, if that.  Which was easy to build into the bid. Boy the installers were just ecstatic I did that.

Unless it is a huge company I just do not see the sense of using a really thin back, you end up paying for it the time to make the cleats and use separate thin ply and then the extra time to install anyway.  It also is so simple to keep the carcasses square using a nice solid back it just goes faster.

Again for your own home there is no reason not to use it at all. Have you ever tried tearing apart cabinets carcasses with a 3/4" back, it takes a sledge hammer.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Canon Sue

  • Posts: 7
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2009, 06:58 PM »
3/4 inch back makes sense. If you did it that way, would you inset it like Abrams? (He insets it into a groove 3/8 to 1/2 inch back.) According to his Fine Woodworking article. (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ProjectsAndDesign/ProjectsAndDesignPDF.aspx?id=30010)

I did remember the article, but I don't have a TV so I have not seen any of his shows.

-Sue

 

Offline Dovetail65

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    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2009, 07:05 PM »
I have done it like Norm.

I have done it using a tongue and groove.

I have done it putting the back on in-between the sides and pocket screwing on the back side into the sides.

All have their advantages and disadvantages and require a slightly different order to be taken in the construction.

Check out this dvd for 9.00. I love the way Sommerfeld makes his cabinets with a mixture of pocket screws, glue and an offset tongue groove set.

https://www.sommerfeldtools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DVD4

It is also worth purchasing the Sommerfeld T & G router bit kit and even the cabinet making router bit set if you want to make arch panel raised doors. His system is bullet proof.

Actually all the Sommerfeld DVD's are worth it at 50.00 for all five. Someone can read his pdf and make arch top raised panel doors that same day with ease. He does not reveal all the carcass construction in a pdf only in the DVD.

T & G cabinet construction system

I use the  system in the link above with solid 3/4" backs.

Go below to download his pdf instructions on the doors:

https://www.sommerfeldtools.com/st_instructions_and_plans.asp


Page 27, 28 and 29 for downland or in his catalog show a lot and it is a great system, IMHO.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 07:13 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2009, 07:22 PM »
About ten years ago I purchased some of the Sommerfeld stuff at a show. The next week I took a cabinet job for a kitchen. I had never made a cabinet at that point for a client. I basically bull crapped my way into the job.

I followed the instructions and everything came out great including the arch top raised panel doors. That gave me the confidence to do anything after that. Before that I did more carpentry, about 500 outdoor structures like decks and Gazebos and such and supervisory stuff.

If you learn his system you can later add or modify things , you will become proficient and confident and any newbie to cabinets I always urge them to this system.

You learn pocket screws, Tongue and groove construction, how to handle a router table with templates and bits using a bearing, how to assemble things before the glue dries and how to clamp as well as use pocket screws as a clamp. All these things are used in this system in one project that actually makes something useful and is better than ANY purchased cabinets from a store. And it all is explained clearly and simply.

You will have confidence if you learn all this system and your family will not believe you made the stuff. I say stuff becasue you can use these techniques to make a lot more than cabinets.

Can you tell I like this system   :)

Oops it also shows simple drawer construction and how to add the hardware etc in a SIMPLE way(drawer lock bit) so the drawers are solid and fit well.  I had to figure out dovetails somewhere else.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 07:30 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Notorious T.O.D.

  • Posts: 506
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 08:58 PM »
Most of the time 1/2" plywood of good quality is almost as expensive as 3/4" plywood and it is usually a lot harder to find 1/2" too.

Thanks for the links to another system Nick.  I always like to see how other people are doing it....especially if they are turning out a good product and
making money doing it...

Todd

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2009, 09:11 PM »
Oh yeah the cost difference is not great, but for the back you only need one side good and I use a lesser grade too, so you really can get away with 3/4" backs for not much more. I got some stuff 28.00 a sheet from HD and it was fine for the backs. That was 1/2 the cost of the plywood I used for the rest of the carcasses. It was a cheaper Maple/Birch mix, but you could not tell the backs were any different from the inside at all.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 09:13 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Notorious T.O.D.

  • Posts: 506
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2009, 09:41 PM »
Nick,

Do you know anything about the cost of the prefinished plywood that Norm was using for his kitchen series?  This stuff must be special order as I have never seen it even at the lumber yard.  I just wonder how much the prefinish adds to the cost of a sheet?  Not sure if it would be a timesaver or not as you still have to finish everything else and I wonder if you are likely to scuff it up during the processing and handling buring construction of the cabinet.

Best,
Todd

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: First Simple Cabinet for shop
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2009, 10:40 PM »
I second Nick's comments about Sommerfeld's cabinet making set and video.  Although I haven't used the bits that much, they are precisely made and very sharp and work well.  Thus far, I used them mainly to create T&G joints for the HD drawers of my garage storage cabinet.  Both the sides and plywood are 3/4 inch stock.  The videos are a great walk through cabinet construction and dealing with different issues.  Of course, they are demonstrating use of his offset T&G router bit set.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.