Author Topic: Dust Collection Pipe System  (Read 35683 times)

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Offline Mario Turcot

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Dust Collection Pipe System
« on: April 27, 2019, 04:10 PM »
Open to suggestion**

I start working on my dust collection system last weekend. I was tired of tripping on the flex hose that was running on the floor that connects on the table saw and band saw.

Everything start on that corner. Pipes are supported on French cleat. I'm using 45deg avoiding straight 90deg.

I know my bag is full  [tongue]

Here I capped one end and switch directly to the table/band saws. Those tools are in the middle of the shop and both mobile.

Please disregard the plastering. I had a friend that came to help last summer and he offer to do it. It didn't last long before I asked him to move on something more important  [eek]

First question, I have to put two blast gates or else for the two tools. Because the tools are mobile what height should I put them?

Again disregard the plastering  [embarassed]

The pipes is supported here on the garage door rails. Not nice but effective  [big grin] Here is the last drop for the drill press and a floor sweep.

and another picture of where the drill press blast gate for the drill press will be.


There is no glue on the pipes yet. I was planning to use alum duct tape for easy removal, once I'm totally done. I am looking for a cad file for blast gate that I can run on my CNC, something similar to


Any comment and suggestion is welcome.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 12:11 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2019, 07:26 AM »
Sometimes with a layout like yours with the dust collector located in a corner it's better to run your main line diagonally across the shop ceiling and branch out from there. You can often eliminate a few fittings and some pipe footage which affect system overall performance more than anything else except maybe undersizing your pipe or joint leaks. And if you plan your branch connections so you use WYEs in place of combos you'll have even less restriction and significantly reduce the chance of a clog from the occasionally long silver that gets sucked up.

Also remember that running your pipe on the ceiling means everything must be pulled up to whatever your ceiling height is which takes work and further reduces your systems effectiveness. Not so bad with dust from a sander, table saw, band saw but for a planer or jointer with larger, heavier chips it might be. For those tools with the larger, heavier debris try locating them closer to the DC, so they have shorter pipe runs and therefore more suction. This may mean rearranging your shop tools or the DC. If neither work out with your situation then reducing the number of bends and overall pipe footage becomes even more important.

Try laying it out on paper with a diagonal main line across your shop and 45 off to each tool or a couple tools if they are close.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 08:51 AM by Bob D. »
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Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2019, 07:49 AM »
Still sideways here Peter. :-)
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2019, 07:51 AM »
Working on it.

Peter

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2019, 08:01 AM »







Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2019, 08:08 AM »
:-)


You can get a great tool for manipulating your images for free from Microsoft. That tool is MS Office Picture Manager which used to be included with MS-Office up until Office 2013. You can get it now as part of SharePoint Designer, the trick is to just install Picture Manager by choosing Custom Installation during setup. It's all explained in the link below and very easy.

Picture Manager let's you batch resize, rename, adjust exposure, rotate, and more.

Follow the instructions here from Microsoft.

https://support.office.com/en-ie/article/where-is-picture-manager-58837c3e-34db-4904-95e8-4eca7b7c5730
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Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2019, 09:40 AM »
Thank you Bob & Peter. This is the first time this happen and I know why. A new phone  [embarassed] The thing is I open them in MS Paint to reduce the size and they were just fine.  [mad]

Bob, I understand your explanation about going diagonal and I thank you for taking the time to explain. You see this is why I planned to only use tapes for the joints  [big grin]. Yesterday I did a test with two ends 4" open and the further end was sucking debris like a champ  [smile]. One of the reason I went square with the wall is because I have my CNC on the north wall close to the corner (pict 3) it usually sit right under the air cleaner. I plan to make an enclosure for it and have the two extraction system work together for direct and ambient suction. This is a "concept" to be proven.

Bigger debris, funny that you mention that. I am looking at a combo Hammer A3 31 with mobile base. If you look at my extractor the fan has a 5" outlet that split in 3x4" and will be moving the power tool right next to it using one of the extra 4" outlet  [big grin]

Thanks again to you both   [thumbs up]

Now I really need to get on that blast gate design  [crying]
Mario

Offline Alanbach

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2019, 11:40 AM »
Here are my comments regarding blast gate height. You want to be able to see them from all around your shop. You will leave them open sometimes and being able to scan your shop to find which are open before moving on to the next machine is handy. I like mine somewhat low when possible so that the flex hoses can drop or stay level. The flex hoses really steal cfm  from the collector so keeping them as short as possible and not at steep inclines will help performance. If they need to be higher to stay out of the way make sure that they are high enough to not hit your head on them. Mine are metal and they would take a chunk out of my noggin if I let them.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2019, 01:02 PM »
@Alanbach , thank you for your input. This is exactly what I was affraid. Put the blast gates high enough to not get hurt by walking into them or having shorter flex hoses.

When you say flex steal CFM, I believe you but I would like tyo know why? Is it because of "collapsing" effect?

Here are my comments regarding blast gate height. You want to be able to see them from all around your shop. You will leave them open sometimes and being able to scan your shop to find which are open before moving on to the next machine is handy. I like mine somewhat low when possible so that the flex hoses can drop or stay level. The flex hoses really steal cfm  from the collector so keeping them as short as possible and not at steep inclines will help performance. If they need to be higher to stay out of the way make sure that they are high enough to not hit your head on them. Mine are metal and they would take a chunk out of my noggin if I let them.

Some updates: I visit my local L.V. this morning with a piece of 4" sewer pipe & fittings to check how their blast gates and fittings fit.   The 4" self cleaning blast gates (L) have a pretty snug fit but the flange is a bit short (3/4") for my taste. The 4" to 2 1/2" reducer (F) is snug as well but the sweep floor (M) is too loose. It has a taper fit inside the pipe but the flange will go in by a shy 1/2".

Mario

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2019, 02:22 PM »
I believe the problem with the corrugated flex hose is the inside on most is not smooth and that creates turbulence in the hose.
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Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2019, 03:41 PM »
I believe the problem with the corrugated flex hose is the inside on most is not smooth and that creates turbulence in the hose.

Make sense, I'll keep em short  [smile] thank you.
Mario

Offline Alanbach

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2019, 01:43 AM »
I wish that I could give you a proper technical / scientific answer. I can only tell you that over the years I have had many conversations by phone with the good people at Oneida and they have taught me a lot about techniques to improve the efficiency of my system as my shop has evolved. The issue of significantly greater cfm loss in flex duct vs. smooth piping has come up many times. Now I wish I had asked them for a chart of cfm loss on a part by part basis. They can rattle it off for you, unfortunately I cannot. For example when I switched from a Unisaw to a Sawstop a year or so ago they calculated the cfm loss in 18’ of flex duct vs. 2 long radius 90’s, fifteen feet of straight duct and three feet of flex duct and it resulted in 100 more cfm at the saw and greatly improved results. I definitely think that  the ridges on the inside of the flex duct create turbulence that reduces flow but I can’t back that up with the proper technical explanation. I hope this helps.

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2019, 04:41 AM »
Those 'self-cleaning' blast gates are position sensitive. I have 6 of them around the shop. The ones mounted in drops (vertical) pipe seem to do better than those in runs (horizontal). One is in a 45V drop to my bandsaw and I have the gate withdraw to the bottom because it's easier to reach and it cleans out the track each time I close it. If it was installed with the gate coming out the top then each time you close it sawdust will get packed into the corners and eventually you won't be able to fully close the gate. I had that problem with one of mine and had to reorient the gate to mitigate the problem. Maybe the newer plastic gates lie this don't have that problem, but those in your photo look just like mine that are 15 years old.

On my DW735 stand as I mentioned in another thread I closed in the bottom of the stand to act as a chip collector. Where my planer is in the shop it sits near the TS and the jointer near the center of the shop floor. The box has four ports; one for the DW735, one for the jointer, one for the TS, and the fourth goes out to the DC. They all have gates on them. The jointer and planer gates are side-by-side with the gates facing each other and spaced so that when one is opened the other is closed by the same motion. But, they are NOT tied together, that's not necessary and would not allow for both to be closed when running the TS or using the planer outside the shop. The box also has a pair of flaps on the top with a furnace filter installed under the flaps. The flaps are configured so that they will seal under vacuum but open and vent under pressure such as when using the planer without external suction and relying on the chip ejector in the DW735 to expel the chips from the machine. It has worked quite well for over 10 years. I tried to get ShopNotes (sent them a short writeup and photos) interested in it as a years ago but they didn't see it as a viable project, not a wide enough appeal I guess.

As usual I have stayed off topic somewhat but to bring it back those 4 blast gates are all mounted so the gates withdrawal from the side, on one I had a problem with it clogging up and what I did was cut the corners off at the bottom of the gate travel with about a 1/2" x 1/2" chamfer on only the one side. If you look close one side is flat and the other is formed to create a space for the gate to ride in, that raised half is all you want to cut. I used a hacksaw blade and did it by hand. I can take a photo if you need it to understand what I am saying.
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Offline BarneyD

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2019, 09:51 AM »
Let me first state that I am a cheapskate. I made all of my blast gates from scrap plywood. And I'm very happy with them. Each has a micro switch that when opened will turn on the cyclone. Fairly simple to make and if the cyclone in ON I know there's an open blast gate somewhere. This is one on my planer in the closed position:



There's just a piece of steel strapping that makes contact with the micro switch which in turn sends 24V to the motor starter for the cyclone. This last pic is with the port open:



Maybe just some food for thought? Good luck with your system.


Barney

Online Cheese

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2019, 09:54 AM »
Mario, a general rule of thumb is that each short 90º elbow is the equivalent of 10' of straight smooth tubing.

And 10' of corrugated hose is the equivalent of 20' of straight smooth tubing.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2019, 11:23 AM »
@BarneyD That;s very smart  [wink] I will keep in mind that process and the use of micro switch  [big grin] Thank you for the pictures.

@Bob D.  & @Alanbach Honestly that make a lot of sense. I have two different kind of flex hoses. One that came with the DC that I hate because it's stiff and one I bought from L.V. that claim to be xtra flexible.

The one blast gate I bought to test the fit with my pipes

Note: There is actually no glue, everything on that picture is snug fit  [smile]

Here a picture of the extra flex hose I was planning to use. Reinforced with metal brush making the ridges bigger.

And here a picture of the hose that came with the DC. Seems to create more static inside but a lot more smooth then the extra flex.


@Cheese That's an easy way to calculate, thank you. So far I have 28' of pipes. The drill press setup (pict 1) will probably end up with a short 2-3' of 2 1/2" flex.

Now I am debating to perm connect the table saw and band saw using a Y and two blast gates or... one blast gate for both and switching the flex that comes from both machines. I have to sit and analyse both options.

I have some magport I can use

but at the end I want the most efficient not necessarily the less expensive.

About the Magports, they are strong, they never disconnect on me. Very easy to install and made in St-Louis  [big grin]. I highly recommend their products. I ordered the starter kit and it took about 6 days to get to me  [wink]
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 11:32 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2019, 11:34 AM »
Mario if you can keep the flex hose to 18" or less, the internal loss isn't that great.

I like the MagPorts a lot. I use them for all my connections.  [big grin]

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2019, 11:37 AM »
Mario if you can keep the flex hose to 18" or less, the internal loss isn't that great.

I like the MagPorts a lot. I use them for all my connections.  [big grin]

Perhaps, it was YOU that introduce me to Magport on one of your post/reply [eek] who knows  [tongue]
Mario

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2019, 04:16 PM »
I like the Magports but have not bought any yet. Most of my stuff stays connected, but I can think of one place where the Magport would be handy.
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Offline mwolczko

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2019, 10:46 PM »
I hadn’t seen the MagPorts.  I use Dryer Dock connectors, which perform the same function, but with a plastic interlock. Rough handling will break a tab, though.

I recently re-did half of my network using the clear 4” tubes from busybeetools.com, and replaced my plastic gates with metal. I really like the clear tube, even though getting them to the US was expensive (busy bee doesn’t export). I’ve written to LV asking that they consider stocking them; if you’re interested, join in!  I plan to re-do the other half later this year.

Online Cheese

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2019, 11:32 PM »
I like the Magports but have not bought any yet. Most of my stuff stays connected, but I can think of one place where the Magport would be handy.

As Mario stated, these things really hang tough. It takes an act of God to pull these things apart.

I had those cheap friction fit connectors sold by Woodcraft and others and the things always disconnected by themselves. They really are are a POS, I have 4 of them that I will recycle for the scrapers. These MagPort connectors are real slick.

The other neat thing is if you don't want to drop the hose on the ground, you can attach the hose to the port but in a disconnected manner.



Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2019, 11:34 PM »
Yes clear tubes is a must but at x9 the price  [eek] I'd think twice. Care to show some picts?

The magports are really robust and get disconnected in a simple & easy 1/8 twist... works for lefties too  [tongue]

@Cheese, thank you for the picts... you know how I like them  [wink]

Look what you have me do,  after thinking about your suggestion to make the flex shorter.
Before

After

Reduced the flex of 4' shorter.  [smile]

I did a test at the drill press and the suction was stronger then my shopvac.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 11:43 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Online Cheese

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2019, 11:53 PM »
That's sweet Mario, it doesn't take much shortening of the flex hose to make a major difference in the capabilities of the dust collector.

Just like an HVAC system, it's the systemic losses throughout the system that make the difference.  [big grin]

I like the lefties comment...it reminds me of my dad...he was a southpaw.  [smile]
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 11:55 PM by Cheese »

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2019, 05:09 AM »
Do Magports come in sizes other than 4"/100mm ?

I have a 4" drop near my router table which I have a 4x2 wye to run to my router table fence. But I also use this with my long shop vac hose for general cleanup around the shop because it is centrally located and I can reach everywhere from that one connection. Having the Magport connector on there would be great as the hose is always falling out of this elevated connection.

I'll have to look. Sounds like a good Father's Day gift suggestion.

I found them quickly enough.

https://magport.net/products/magport-2-5-magnetic-coupling-used-in-dust-collection-for-woodworking

« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 05:14 AM by Bob D. »
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Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2019, 05:30 AM »
Mario/Cheese,

I blame you both for me buying a bunch of Magports just now. :-)

Looking forward to using them to improve my dust collection system.
I think the 2.5 inch will be the most useful for quick connections at
the router table and drill press.

Thanks.

Anyone tried fitting the 2.5 inch ports to the larger Festool hoses?
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Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2019, 07:57 AM »
@Bob D.  Thank you for putting a  [big grin] on my face this morning. I'm sure you won't be able to resist to the temptation of showing off your Magport setup [popcorn]
Mario

Offline mwolczko

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2019, 07:48 PM »
Yes clear tubes is a must but at x9 the price  [eek] I'd think twice. Care to show some picts?

Here you go.  Yes, they're expensive, but if you've ever had to clear a blockage you'll appreciate the time saved.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2019, 07:51 PM »
Awesome, thanks for the pictures  [thumbs up]

Q: What glue you used for the blast gates?
Mario

Offline mwolczko

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2019, 02:07 AM »
I used a silicone caulk. It sticks enough to hold, but is easily cleaned off if you want to take them apart.
The clear tubes are a very tight push fit in the unions — no sealer or tape needed.

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2019, 04:18 AM »
Yes clear tubes is a must but at x9 the price  [eek] I'd think twice. Care to show some picts?

Here you go.  Yes, they're expensive, but if you've ever had to clear a blockage you'll appreciate the time saved.

In your second photo, if you could rotate that wye 45° toward the path of the flex hose you would take that sharp bend out of the flex and improve flow significantly.
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Offline JimH2

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2019, 12:52 PM »
Thanks for informing about something I needed but did not know I needed.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2019, 01:59 PM »
Thanks for informing about something I needed but did not know I needed.

Hey Jim, glad you learned something out of this thread.

I believe thread like this are a good opportunity to increase everyone knowledge. Not because I am the one that start it, most threads are about sharing/acquiring knowledge. This particular thread purpose was to gather as much expertise as possible about the subject. I'm pretty sure all the participants and the ones that read through this thread, learned something  [big grin]
Mario

Offline mwolczko

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2019, 03:19 PM »
In your second photo, if you could rotate that wye 45° toward the path of the flex hose you would take that sharp bend out of the flex and improve flow significantly.

The hose you see there is attached to a hand-held sweep, which is stored on hooks below the ceiling. In use, the hose hangs down and the bend is much less acute.

Offline Vondawg

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2019, 06:34 PM »
I also got a lot out of this tread Mario...ordered up the magports and shortened up my flex.....thanks!
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Gregor

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2019, 07:50 PM »
After

Reduced the flex of 4' shorter.  [smile]

I would do the following: detach the motor from the base and mount in onto the left side wall so the inlet points up and mount the collector directly to the motor part (getting rid of the elbow between the motor and the collector). Then extend the 45° tube at the top while twisting it away from the back wall so it reaches toward the left wall above the inlet, another 45° there to go down with the tubing directly into it.

Upside would be that it would save you the two lower 45° ones and the flex tube (thus removing quite some airflow reduction) and frees the floor space currently occupied by the motor (as it would move up to where the elbow between motor and collector currently is), use a smaller cart to support the bag in case you want to get rid of the now too big rolling base - downside would be that it'll be stationary, unless you hang the motor onto the cleats...
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 07:55 PM by Gregor »

Offline travisj

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2019, 09:27 PM »
That’s how I did mine.  I hung the motor on the wall directly connected to the filter which I hung from the ceiling and have the cyclone mounted to a drum below.  It’s not optimal to have a sharp 90 into the cyclone, but for now it will have to do.  (Sorry the shop is a disaster right now.  Stuff everywhere).


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Offline gnlman

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2019, 09:43 PM »
The only issue with doing what Gregor describes is the flanges on the housing and the motor housing won't line up and you'll require a transition piece as one flange will be horizontal and one vertical. I did a mod to same dust collector but added a super dust deputy. Made a big difference and keeps suction at a constant. That dust collector really sucks, and eliminating the elbow and adding the dust deputy seems to be a wash in regards to suction. I don't have a finished picture, but one in progress, I'll try and post it. I had a welder make me a transition piece and it worked great..one thing I should mention is I "borrowed" (with permission) the idea from a nice guy on another forum...lol
Since this picture, I added a set of wheels on the barrel, and raised the deputy(it fits perfectly into the inlet of the fan shroud) and have a hose from the bottom of the deputy into the barrel....no hose between the motor shroud and the dust deputy. If you look close you will see the transition piece between the flanges....sorry there is a bunch of junk in front of it now I'll take another picture if you are interested later tonight or tomorrow once I tidy up a bit...
Greg
297183-0













« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 10:54 PM by gnlman »

Offline travisj

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2019, 11:09 PM »
The only issue with doing what Gregor describes is the flanges on the housing and the motor housing won't line up and you'll require a transition piece as one flange will be horizontal and one vertical. I did a mod to same dust collector but added a super dust deputy. Made a big difference and keeps suction at a constant. That dust collector really sucks, and eliminating the elbow and adding the dust deputy seems to be a wash in regards to suction. I don't have a finished picture, but one in progress, I'll try and post it. I had a welder make me a transition piece and it worked great..one thing I should mention is I "borrowed" (with permission) the idea from a nice guy on another forum...lol
Since this picture, I added a set of wheels on the barrel, and raised the deputy(it fits perfectly into the inlet of the fan shroud) and have a hose from the bottom of the deputy into the barrel....no hose between the motor shroud and the dust deputy. If you look close you will see the transition piece between the flanges....sorry there is a bunch of junk in front of it now I'll take another picture if you are interested later tonight or tomorrow once I tidy up a bit...
Greg
(Attachment Link)













That’s a nice and clean looking setup.  I may have to borrow some of those ideas when I rebuild my system.


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Offline Gregor

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2019, 06:19 AM »
The only issue with doing what Gregor describes is the flanges on the housing and the motor housing won't line up and you'll require a transition piece as one flange will be horizontal and one vertical.
I came up with the idea when mounting a similar system some years back, that one didn't have this problem as the flanges on that one were symmetrical.

But: Them being (within reason) asymetrical is nothing that a power drill, a few nuts and bolts and some sealant can't fix in a few minutes.

(EDIT: removed unintended whitespace)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 03:45 AM by Gregor »

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2019, 12:16 AM »
@Gregor that's a very interesting thought. I will probably operate the system as is for a while, just in case I decide to move it some where else in the shop.

@travisj & @gnlman Both, nice setup & thanks for the picture  [thumbs up]

Right now I only did a test at the drill press and suction was more then adequate. In fact I thought of putting some kind of mesh wire to prevent small part to get sucked. I will at the propeller for sure, since I notice some brand have that feature.

The only part left is the drop in the center of the shop for the table/band saws. I have to come up with something that will securely hold that part

to the drop


Okay, time for a poll:

1) Keep the shown part above to connect both power tools
2) Only put a single blast gate and a magport right after the Y
3) Your own option

« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 12:20 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline travisj

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2019, 02:35 AM »
If it were me, I would go with your first option.
1.  You already have the parts and 2. The magports wouldn’t offer you any increased functionality.  It would actually add inefficiency (albeit slight).  In your first picture you only have to open the blast gate whereas with the mag port, you have to open the blast gate and attach a hose.

I think the magports are pretty cool, but in this situation I don’t see any added value by using them.



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Offline Gregor

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2019, 03:52 AM »
@Gregor that's a very interesting thought. I will probably operate the system as is for a while, just in case I decide to move it some where else in the shop.
In case you don't bold it to the wall itself but onto a carrier with cleats... it would stay somewhat mobile.
Quote
Okay, time for a poll:

2) Only put a single blast gate and a magport right after the Y
Simply because you could pull the hose off in case you need the space below for something, like doing a glue-up of a thing that needs the height (that wouldn't be there when attaching the additional Y and gates).

You could still put another Y with additional gates at the two machines should you notice that it's more convenient to have one there.

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2019, 05:27 AM »
"I thought of putting some kind of mesh wire to prevent small part to get sucked. I will at the propeller for sure, since I notice some brand have that feature."

This could also cause large shavings from a planer or jointed for example or when cleaning up around the shop from entering the DC and create a partial blockage that would build over time to stop all flow. My point is be careful of what size opening your mesh has that it's not too restrictive.
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Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2019, 09:39 AM »
Don't you hate it when you realized your self that you have been dishonest  :o. Dishonest with my self and my poor questions. I'm guilty to not provide to you the full picture of my intent. I will clean the shop today and will invite you to the dragon's den.

Prior to start that project, I visualized in my head a bunch of scenarios. Should I go straight to the tool by running the pipe diagonally etc etc.. I drank a lot of coffee on this, perhaps too many.

On going clean up..
Mario

Offline gnlman

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2019, 10:13 AM »
"I thought of putting some kind of mesh wire to prevent small part to get sucked. I will at the propeller for sure, since I notice some brand have that feature."

This could also cause large shavings from a planer or jointed for example or when cleaning up around the shop from entering the DC and create a partial blockage that would build over time to stop all flow. My point is be careful of what size opening your mesh has that it's not too restrictive.

That is one of the nice things about mating the dust collector to a cyclone, or buying a cyclone dust collector. Nothing goes thru the fan...or at least so far....lol
Greg

Offline rmhinden

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2019, 10:48 AM »
Do Magports come in sizes other than 4"/100mm ?

I contacted Magports, they are planning a 5" version.   

Bob

Offline Alanbach

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2019, 11:41 AM »
I would install as many wyes stacked on top of each other as needed for the tools in the area. You have gone to all of this work, don’t stop now and start moving hoses around. You can also stack two wyes and go all the way down to the floor with more straight pipe and create a floor sweep with a blast gate. It is a nice way to provide more stability and get a floor sweep in the bargain.

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2019, 11:44 AM »
"I thought of putting some kind of mesh wire to prevent small part to get sucked. I will at the propeller for sure, since I notice some brand have that feature."

This could also cause large shavings from a planer or jointed for example or when cleaning up around the shop from entering the DC and create a partial blockage that would build over time to stop all flow. My point is be careful of what size opening your mesh has that it's not too restrictive.

That is one of the nice things about mating the dust collector to a cyclone, or buying a cyclone dust collector. Nothing goes thru the fan...or at least so far....lol
Greg

I agree, but they put those bars in there for some reason, which thinking about it a little more maybe it has nothing to do with keeping debris out of the fan. On mine there are only two bars, one vertical and one horizontal, so there is room for big stuff to get through and do damage to the fan. So maybe they're there to reinforce the opening in the fan housing, and not to keep junk out of the fan since it should be caught as you say by the separator.
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Offline gnlman

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2019, 02:53 PM »
@Bob D.
Hmm never thought of the bars as being structural.....and I've seen where folks have snipped them off with hopes of increasing suction...I always assumed those bars were meant to catch something like a shop rag or small tool that accidentally gets sucked up. I could see where in some instances it could be keeping the inlet sound though. I would probably never snip mine off (especially now) for both of those reasons.
Thanks,
Greg

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2019, 05:27 PM »
@Bob D.  Thank you for putting a  [big grin] on my face this morning. I'm sure you won't be able to resist to the temptation of showing off your Magport setup [popcorn]

Well, not setup yet. MagPorts just arrived today. But I must say those 2.5" MagPorts are tough to separate. Same number and size magnets as the 4" version. I bet you could get by just fine with only 4 magnets on the 2.5" version. A FT hose is too small, will need an adapter collar. Haven't tried any of my other hoses yet. The 4" should be fine I suspect.
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Online Cheese

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2019, 10:33 AM »
Pertaining to this thread, I just noticed a new Flexaust product. It's a light weight, flexible PVC hose with an ultra smooth interior surface while also having ESD protection. Woodcraft just listed it in their latest catalog.

http://www.flexaust.com/product/flex-tube-pv-sd-lw/



Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2019, 10:35 PM »
Hey @Cheese that's a nice flex hose but can't find it anywhere  [sad]

I did not give up on my system yet. I made some significant change from my original design, will post pictures soon. I just need to clean the shop again  [embarassed]
Mario

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2019, 12:03 AM »
Hey @Cheese that's a nice flex hose but can't find it anywhere  [sad]

I did not give up on my system yet. I made some significant change from my original design, will post pictures soon. I just need to clean the shop again  [embarassed]

Here at Woodcraft ........  https://www.woodcraft.com/search?q=Flexaust&button=search

Seth

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2019, 12:07 AM »
Thank you Seth  [smile]
Mario

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #54 on: June 21, 2019, 12:15 AM »
I just got the Flexaust hose. 4" x 10'.

Things to note compared to the basic 4" black plastic DC hose .........  it is about twice as heavy (not that it matters),  is waaaaay more flexible (it can do multiple and compound bends), stretches and recoils.

The 10' length is only 10' if you really pull it out taught. To keep it at ten feet it would need to be firmly attached at both ends. When figuring your use it would be a good idea to figure a working length of more like 8 1/2'.  If stretched to 10' and released it will recoil / retract to about 7 ' - 8'.

Can't say about the anti-static yet. Hooked it up and did a few feet of planing. Not enough to tell.

Seth

Online Cheese

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #55 on: June 21, 2019, 12:32 AM »
I just got the Flexaust hose. 4" x 10'.

Things to note compared to the basic 4" black plastic DC hose .........  it is about twice as heavy (not that it matters),  is waaaaay more flexible (it can do multiple and compound bends), stretches and recoils.

The 10' length is only 10' if you really pull it out taught. To keep it at ten feet it would need to be firmly attached at both ends. When figuring your use it would be a good idea to figure a working length of more like 8 1/2'.  If stretched to 10' and released it will recoil / retract to about 7 ' - 8'.

Can't say about the anti-static yet. Hooked it up and did a few feet of planing. Not enough to tell.

Seth

Seth, 
Is that the blue stuff I mentioned to Mario?

If so I’ll be interested in your thoughts.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2019, 09:01 AM »
I just got the Flexaust hose. 4" x 10'.

Things to note compared to the basic 4" black plastic DC hose .........  it is about twice as heavy (not that it matters),  is waaaaay more flexible (it can do multiple and compound bends), stretches and recoils.

The 10' length is only 10' if you really pull it out taught. To keep it at ten feet it would need to be firmly attached at both ends. When figuring your use it would be a good idea to figure a working length of more like 8 1/2'.  If stretched to 10' and released it will recoil / retract to about 7 ' - 8'.

Can't say about the anti-static yet. Hooked it up and did a few feet of planing. Not enough to tell.

Seth

Seth, 
Is that the blue stuff I mentioned to Mario?

If so I’ll be interested in your thoughts.

Yes, in the links above.

Seth

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2019, 05:46 AM »
Looking at the Flexaust web site they have many style hoses, connectors and other accessories.

Thanks for that link. I may now have a new source for some 16" exhaust duct needed at work.
I will have to check their pricing and see how it compares to what I buy now. I need about 200 feet.
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Online MikeGE

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2019, 07:07 AM »
Mario, I had a DC system similar to yours and after lots of thinking about it, decided the 3HP blower motor assembly was the only part I wanted to keep.  I designed my own collection system using 120mm steel ducting, an Oneida steel SDD, and a pair of Wynn 35BA filters and catch pans.  My shop is in the below-grade basement of my house (with no external windows or access), and I am determined to contain all dust there and not let it make its way through the rest of the house.


Here's the finished system, with room under the filters for my compressor.  The dust drops into a 35-gallon plastic trash can that is internally reinforced to keep it from collapsing.




Here is a view of the system before I added the filter box.  Although not shown in these images, I use a bungee cord across the top of the plywood that attaches to the trash can handles.  This gives extra compression between the trash can rim and the rubber gasket attached to the bottom of the plywood.






Here is a closeup of the blower assembly showing how I attached it to the wall.  I used rubber isolation mounts in compression mode to minimize the vibration since my shop is directly below the dining room.  This layout works very well and my wife tells me she can't tell when the DC system is running.




This is a closeup of the interface between the blower outlet and the filter box.  I used section of 180mm flexible ducting and formed it into a rectangle that is slightly larger than the blower outlet.  I would have preferred a straight path to the filter box, but I had to make do with the limitations of the closet I built before I had the DC components.



This is a view from the inside of the filter box showing the ducting and the pitot tube that connects to the external differential meter I use to monitor the filter efficiency.  It works well, and I noticed after a long cutting session that the meter reading was increasing.  The plastic trash can collapsed slightly and broke the seal at the bottom of the SDD.  This allowed lots of dust to enter the filter box and started to clog the filters.  After an hour of cleaning the filters, I reinforced the interior of the trash can with braces, and it hasn't collapsed since.




This is another view from inside the filter box showing how I attached the Wynn filters.


Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2019, 12:52 PM »
@MikeGE That's a very nice and convenient setup you made. I wish I had your talent and the room to put my DC and Compressor in a different room  [big grin]
Mario

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2019, 01:51 PM »

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2019, 07:24 PM »
I spy a pitot tube, does that tubing run to a Magnehelic? What's your pressure look like?

Have you rigged up an alarm to know when the barrel is getting full?
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Online MikeGE

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2019, 10:49 AM »
I spy a pitot tube, does that tubing run to a Magnehelic? What's your pressure look like?

Have you rigged up an alarm to know when the barrel is getting full?
I assume you are referring to my setup.  If so, I use the Oneida Static Pressure Gauge Kit to monitor the filters.  It's been a while since I set it up, but with all of the blast gates open and the filters sealed with plastic bags and duct tape, the meter reading was about 2 inches of water.  With the gates open and the bags off the filters, the needle barely moves off of the zero. 

The one time I noticed the needle had moved significantly, the meter was indicating about 0.8 inches of water.  That's when I opened the DC closet and saw the plastic can had collapsed and broke the seal around the plywood lid.  I don't know when the can collapsed, but a lot of dust had been blown into the filters. I now monitor the meter frequently when I'm using the DC.
I don't have a bin level meter installed on this setup, but will install one when I change to the larger Dust Deputy XL cyclone.  I'll also change the ducting to 160mm pipes and change the routing a bit to minimize the runs and turns.  Fortunately, the company that sold me the 120mm components will buy them back at a reasonable (to me) reduction of the purchase price in exchange for the 160mm components. 

The current system works well, but I'm sure it can be better.  As we're fond of saying at my former job, the enemy of good is better.

Online Bob D.

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2019, 01:03 PM »
Yes, looking at the instruction sheet for your system that's a Minihelic II made by Dwyer Instruments.

For anyone that wants to roll their own here it is.

https://www.amazon.com/Dwyer-Minihelic-2-5005-Differential-Pressure/dp/B009PC6LCA/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=magnehelic+0-5%22+wc&qid=1561482013&s=industrial&sr=1-7

I used a 0-3" Magnehelic at my old house across the furnace filter, and used it to monitor the filter condition by reading the D/P across the filter.
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Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2019, 08:35 AM »
My system has been runnig since last update. I'm happy with it, but something came up to my attention, that I'm having hard time to pass on.



I will get it today and will probably end up with a setup similar to what @Gregor  and several others suggested. Having the motor mounted directly on the wall with french cleats.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 08:47 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Online Cheese

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Re: Dust Collection Pipe System
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2019, 10:50 AM »
I used a 0-3" Magnehelic at my old house across the furnace filter, and used it to monitor the filter condition by reading the D/P across the filter.

That's funny...I did the same on the old furnace.  [smile]  Just haven't gotten around yet to mounting it to the new furnace.

They're especially helpful if you have a house full of pets and do indoor construction or have an indoor shop that's part of the house.

Funny no one has come up with an electronic version that would notify you on the phone when you exceed some user set threshold.