Author Topic: Ducting  (Read 5488 times)

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Offline Mickfb

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Ducting
« on: August 08, 2014, 03:19 PM »
I am thinking of running 100mm plastic dust extraction off my Camvac dust extractor. My question for the great collective of FOG, is do you think I should ground the system. The floor is yours.

Many thanks
Mick



Offline Slartibartfass

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 03:30 PM »
Absolutely, nothing ruins your day than having a dust explosion in your workshop. A good way of potentially burning everything down... I (would) use(d) metal duct instead.

Offline carlb40

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 04:50 PM »
I use 110mm soil pipe in my workshop for static extraction and it has been un-ground for over 7 years without an issue. :)
Carl

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Offline Stefanb07

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 08:00 AM »
Yes ground it! Part of my daily job consist out of installing dust extraction and if you dont ground the system it can build up static electricity never heard of any dust explosion happen but each time you touch the ducting you get a nice whack of electricity  [big grin]

And never use PVC

Offline wow

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 09:13 AM »
Yes ground it! Part of my daily job consist out of installing dust extraction and if you dont ground the system it can build up static electricity never heard of any dust explosion happen but each time you touch the ducting you get a nice whack of electricity  [big grin]

And never use PVC

^^^ What he said, x2!
Trying to be one of the most helpful members on the FOG.

Offline Mickfb

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2014, 09:29 AM »
Thanks for the advice guy's. All the machines I will connect to the system will have an earth via the 3 pin plug. So if the earth is terminated to a metal part of the machine including the extractor that should give me my earth. Beginning to think it's not worth the hassle and just move the extraction to the machine as I need it.

Offline VesaS

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2014, 09:58 AM »
If you want add safety to your dust extraction system, use metal ducting and ground it properly.
There is no point to "ground" a plastic ducting (e.g. soil pipe) because it is isolating material.

Contact qualified electrician for more information.
Hobbyist with high demands (for tools)

Offline Mickfb

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2014, 10:16 AM »
If you want add safety to your dust extraction system, use metal ducting and ground it properly.
There is no point to "ground" a plastic ducting (e.g. soil pipe) because it is isolating material.

Contact qualified electrician for more information.

I would run a bare wire inside the ducting.

Offline gkaiseril

  • Posts: 329
Re: Ducting
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2014, 11:20 AM »
If you want add safety to your dust extraction system, use metal ducting and ground it properly.
There is no point to "ground" a plastic ducting (e.g. soil pipe) because it is isolating material.

Contact qualified electrician for more information.

It is not a conductor and can act as an insalator but it can have a static electricity charge buildup around it. Nylon and rubber are both insalators. Ever run either through your dry hair? The both can raise your hair when placed over it or the balloon will cling to the wall when placed on the wall.

The presence of an inslator allows the charge to build up on the inside and outsides of the pipe until something or someone drains the charge.

Most sawdust and wood chips will not explode because of the size of the particles Grain storage silos explode because of the very fine chafe of the grain hulls has such a small surface area and the heat generated by the electric current passing through the particles ignites them.
George Kaiser

TS 55 REQ, RO 90, RO 150, CT 26, PSB 420, MFT/3

Offline VesaS

  • Posts: 73
Re: Ducting
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2014, 01:04 PM »
The presence of an inslator allows the charge to build up on the inside and outsides of the pipe until something or someone drains the charge.

That is also reason why I would not run ground wire inside plastic pipe.

Hobbyist with high demands (for tools)

Offline grbmds

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2014, 01:31 PM »
I'd like to present a little different perspective and qualify that by saying I am not a professional woodworker and only do it as a hobby. Therefore, my use of the dust collector is not constant. I have had an Oneida cyclone with an internal filter for almost 15 years. The last 8 years or so, I have used it installed in one spot with metal ducting run to 3 locations; 2 reduced from the main line to 4" from the 6" outlet and the other and main ducting are 5". This is 1 1/2 HP unit, 110V. I currently only use it for my planer and my jointer, using a CT48 and Fein vac for other jobs. I haven't used a table saw since getting my TS55 but used to use the dust collector for the table saw also (not very effectively though). Anyway all that leads to the issue of metal versus plastic and grounding. I used all metal ducting which was supplied by Oneida after they helped design my ducting plan. I did not ground it and I don't even believe Oneida recommended it but don't remember after 8 years. I have never gotten a shock from any of the ducts, tools or plastic flexible connecting hoses. Now, that could be because all electrical boxes are grounded properly, that all of my flexible plastic hoses have spiral wire reinforcing inside, and I am on a concrete floor in the basement (although I'm not sure that has anything to do with it). Anyway, there has never been any static buildup that I have notice or felt no matter how long I've run the planer or jointer. Before doing the ducting I read too many articles to count where grounding and not grounding were discussed. I could never come to a conclusion and would not recommend either way. I just wanted to let you know that, without grounding on my system, I don't have a problem. It would seem to have been a lot of extra work for nothing on my system at least.
Randy

Offline wow

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2014, 02:03 PM »
If you haven't had a sawdust explosion, you're just not doing it right. Ask MythBusters:

http://explosives.wonderhowto.com/inspiration/boom-sawdust-explosion-tested-by-mythbusters-0113376/

 [eek]
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 02:27 PM by wow »
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Offline Mickfb

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2014, 02:26 PM »
If you haven't had a sawdust explosion, you're just not doing it right. Ask MythBusters:

http://explosives.wonderhowto.com/inspiration/boom-sawdust-explosion-tested-by-mythbusters-0113376/

Point taken wow, shall make sure I don't leave my box of flares in the workshop.  [scared]

Offline gkaiseril

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2014, 04:32 PM »
If you haven't had a sawdust explosion, you're just not doing it right. Ask MythBusters:

http://explosives.wonderhowto.com/inspiration/boom-sawdust-explosion-tested-by-mythbusters-0113376/

 [eek]

Flour is used to put out kitchen fires, but if one makes a fine enough could of flour dust it will explode. Most sop fires are not started by a static spark in saw dust. The Myth buster used a road flare. That could set a 2x4 on fire.
George Kaiser

TS 55 REQ, RO 90, RO 150, CT 26, PSB 420, MFT/3

Offline gkaiseril

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2014, 04:55 PM »
The presence of an inslator allows the charge to build up on the inside and outsides of the pipe until something or someone drains the charge.

That is also reason why I would not run ground wire inside plastic pipe.

That is your opinion and most prefer to ground non-conductive piping or ducting for dust collection systems. You can google to find more information.
George Kaiser

TS 55 REQ, RO 90, RO 150, CT 26, PSB 420, MFT/3

Offline wow

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2014, 07:20 PM »
The presence of an inslator allows the charge to build up on the inside and outsides of the pipe until something or someone drains the charge.

That is also reason why I would not run ground wire inside plastic pipe.

VesaS:

If you DON'T run a ground wire, then you are allowing other factors to control when and how that discharge occurs.

Regardless of the many "It has worked so far..." kind of arguments, are you sure you want to leave that to chance? I know I don't...
Trying to be one of the most helpful members on the FOG.

Offline Stefanb07

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2014, 03:15 AM »
I dont see the problem when your ducting is fully made from metal you can just bolt 1 single wire to the system and ground it somewhere..

Problem solved better safe then sorry   [cool]

Offline Baremeg55

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2014, 11:01 AM »
Anytime someone asks this question, everyone and their brother emphatically states you have to ground the pipe or else suffer the dreaded dust spark/explosion/meltdown.  You can find this question asked on any and every wood forum.

The short answer is ground the system to be on the safe side.  Explosions or fires if you don't, nah.  If this was a serious issue, we would be inundated with safety regulations out the ying yang!!!!!  Industrial application, sure.

I also own a pair of flame retardant coveralls, so, have at me!!!!  :)


Offline Slartibartfass

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Re: Ducting
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2014, 11:06 AM »
Check this source out. I ordered all my piping from there.

http://www.ductingsystems.com/ducting-supplies.html

Also Grizzly.com sells a nice short book about a proper sized dust collection system.