Author Topic: Veneering with Unusual Materials  (Read 858 times)

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Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 53
Veneering with Unusual Materials
« on: October 27, 2019, 08:08 AM »
I'm getting ready to do a couple small cabinet projects (for myself, not for $$) and would like to experiment with using some not so common veneers. First off, I have no experience veneering anything. I'm looking at using cork and natural linoleum. Hoping someone around here might have some experience with either.

I've seen cork veneers for sale, but I'm wondering if I can just use 3 mm or 6 mm cork underlayment. The linoleum I'm looking at is "Furniture linoleum" made by Forbo. I'm kind of looking at this as an alternative to vinyl laminate. I'm hoping both of these products can be used with contact cement/roller, as I don't have and kind of press. The substrate for either would be baltic birch.

Thanks!

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Offline mrFinpgh

  • Posts: 329
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2019, 01:50 PM »
I think you'll be happiest if you make up some kind of press to apply the cork.  I'm not sure if contact cement would be a great long term solution.

Depending on how big the parts are, you could use a couple sheets of Melamine as platens and then make some cauls out of 2x4 lumber.  Since it's the festool forum, you could buy bowclamps :-) 

If you can get a cabinet shop to do it, an hour with a vacuum bag might make your life a lot easier.

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 53
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2019, 04:08 PM »
The cork I'm looking to use has a jute backing. Would contact cement still not be a good solution?

Would you use regular wood glue with cork? Thanks for the input! I was thinking this thread might just die.

I was able to find stall instructions from forbo. Looks like the glue they sell to go with the furniture linoleum is not available in the US. They're recommending acrylic adhesive or PVA contact cement. When I google "acrylic adhesive," I'm getting results for glues to glue acrylic together. I don't think thats the right stuff.

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 1089
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2019, 04:32 PM »
@Sourwould 

This guy sells veneers, veneer equipment and various accessories to do veneering.  He offers several types of glue and he is very helpful.  He doesn't offer phone support, but you can contact him through his contact form

You might find something else of interest on the site.  He sells some nice veneers.    [big grin]

Mike A.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6098
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2019, 05:00 PM »
Scotch Weld;

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/bonding-and-assembly-us/structural-adhesives/acrylic-adhesives/

Vacuum press is your best bet. Weights on a balance sheet will work but may leave unadhered (I invented a new word
......) spots.

Tom

Offline cblanton42

  • Posts: 92
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2019, 10:03 PM »
     Definitely use a vacuum press with a bag large enough for the panels if you want good results, I've done several mahogany veneer panels for my Chris Craft and all are still flat with no bubbles and look brand new 6 years later.  I bought my vacuum with a bag at Woodcraft, they probably still carry the kit.
     Good luck!
CB

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 53
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2019, 08:40 AM »
Honestly, I think by the time I get a whole vacuum veneering set up together, I might as well just special order some veneered material. The problem is, my choices are the local lumber yard, lowes and home depot. Online, I'm seeing a lot of great ready-to-go ply materials out of europe, but I have no idea how to get them.

Offline mrFinpgh

  • Posts: 329
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2019, 12:17 PM »
Vacuum press is best and least stressful, but you can definitely get away with an ad-hoc press.  Especially if the parts aren't too big.

It's just more of a pain to do it that way compared to a vacuum bag.

I've done panels up to 2' x 3' with cauls and platens.   It's more stressful because you are dealing with clamping everything up before the glue sets too much.  It's easier with a helper or two.   I find if I space the cauls about 5" on center, things work out okay.  It can also be helpful to line the platens with cork or something slightly soft, too ensure more contact w/ the material.

I saw something somewhere (can't recall) where someone made a press using unistrut and bolts.  I thought that was an interesting solution and they seemed pleased with performance.

The thicker material you're using works in your favor, as it will distribute pressure a little bit compared to the .5mm veneer.

One thing I've never considered is whether you need to balance a cork veneer.  With typical veneering you need a backer veneer to offset the forces of the show face.  I'd guess cork doesn't move in that way.

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 53
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2019, 05:43 PM »
I have no idea how the cork would move. It's not like a solid piece. Looks like ground up bits glued into a plane. I have to admit I have no idea what cork is like as a raw material, nor how it's processed.

I wonder if I need to balance linoleum.

I've found a birch ply with a phenolic resin veneer on the faces that comes in a bunch of colors. Looks like it's used for concrete forming in Europe. Looks cool, but I don't think I can source it. Also been looking at black mdf/mdo, though I don't think it's available stateside either.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1864
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2019, 07:55 PM »
How big are the panels? That will dictate the approach.
Vacuum press is nice but not required. I do regular wood veneer with heat activated glue (Titebond). Easier and quicker than vac press. That will not work for linoleum though.

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 53
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2019, 08:38 PM »
Nothing bigger than a cabinet door or drawer face. Heat activated glue? Does that work like hot hide glue?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1864
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2019, 10:35 PM »

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 53
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2019, 08:30 AM »
Thanks for the link! So no pressing is required? The iron does the pressing? This looks like a great method!

This looks pretty similar to the hammer veneer process in my tage frid book.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1864
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2019, 02:34 PM »
Thanks for the link! So no pressing is required? The iron does the pressing? This looks like a great method!
This looks pretty similar to the hammer veneer process in my tage frid book.
Correct, no pressing. Cover both surfaces, let dry, iron on through paper or cloth. That's it.
The description in that link is good, but the video is a bit sketchy. You can find better ones on YouTube.
Practice on a scrap.

Linoleum might need different glue, so this method won't work. However, drawer fronts are easy to press with F or C-clamps.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2019, 02:38 PM by Svar »

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 53
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2019, 03:45 PM »
I think I've figured out what to do with the linoleum. I was trying to figure out a way to experiment with some veneering with a low investment, and I believe you have delivered! Thank you. Have you ever tried this with modern hide glue?

Offline Jesse Cloud

  • Posts: 1739
  • Festooling at the end of a dirt road in New Mexico
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2019, 07:18 PM »
I have glued a ton of cork with regular wood glue (titebond) and with hide glue (both from crystals with a hot pot and off the shelf
liquid hide glue.  I use a J-roller as one would on formica, sorta like Frid's hammer veneering.

Cork is a kind of tree bark, ground up and glued together.  High end cork has smaller particles and more consistent color.  If you don't need fine grain or very large pieces, cork can be had very cheaply at hobby stores.

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 53
Re: Veneering with Unusual Materials
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2019, 07:23 PM »
Do you use any heat with the roller or just the roller?