Author Topic: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive  (Read 1841 times)

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4205
Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« on: January 08, 2021, 02:36 PM »
Doing a favor for a friend, whereby I will be installing aluminum angle stock along the outer edges of an entryway to protect it.



My question is about the proper adhesive, since they don't want it to be screwed in. I figured that I could use a quick curing metal epoxy, something like this to facilitate a lasting bond?  If this is a good product, I was also thinking of mixing in at a few select points along the stock some faster acting CA glue for metal like this, which would achieve a quick bond (particularly for the vertical piece) and allow the epoxy time to cure.

Does this sound like a good plan, or should I be looking instead at some kind of thicker, tube dispensed adhesive that will have more immediate tack?
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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 642
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2021, 02:48 PM »
They make special trim for that application.  The manufacturer should be able to advise on the adhesive, though I would think it would be nothing more than thinset.

The general search would be "drywall reveal trim".

https://www.google.com/search?q=drywall+reveal+trim&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij0s3bjI3uAhUQEVkFHZT-D88Q_AUoAXoECBEQAw&biw=1600&bih=786

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2412
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2021, 03:29 PM »
Any construction adhesive that typically comes in caulk gun tubes. This is the kind of application they were designed for. Some are made for vertical applications and grab and cure very quickly.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 03:34 PM by Svar »

Offline Dan Rush

  • Posts: 603
  • Trim carpenter
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2021, 04:33 PM »
2 sided adhesive tape might be another avenue. I use 3m/Scotch extreme. It's tenacious and not as messy as some glues.

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Offline mkasdin

  • Posts: 475
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2021, 02:14 AM »
Use some z channel and install some wood trim. You could also mill some stock and make it flush with the Sheetrock (+1/8”) and but it up to j channel or L channel. Z channel comes in stainless steel which looks very nice. I used the cheaper galvanized and it can be painted. I’ll try to upload a photo of what I did. It looks very modern, and would go well with the ceiling angles. Caution it’s a fair amount of work and you should be proficient with drywall compound...   not an expert, but able to do some basic trowel work with a good knife.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7665
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2021, 02:50 AM »
Any construction adhesive that typically comes in caulk gun tubes. This is the kind of application they were designed for. Some are made for vertical applications and grab and cure very quickly.

This. If you're going for the ugly solution of an aluminium strip. Wood trim looks much better, also needs such construction glue. Make sure the glue can handle a non-porous surface like metal.

This problem would have been prevented if the original drywaller knew what he was doing and had corner beads installed, that's what they're for.

325382-0

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 701
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2021, 02:57 AM »
There's a holiday lodge park I work on for a few months most years and they have a right angled plastic trim about 50mm on each side to protect the drywall corners from damage.
People come into the lodges with suitcases and clatter the corners and the normal drywall corner beads don't last long at all.

We usually just put them on with silicone, making sure it doesn't spread past the edge of the plastic trim, we hold it in place during curing with masking tape.

Lots of construction adhesives get a lot better hold than silicone but those lodges get stripped out and redone every few years and if the adhesive is too strong it rips big chunks of the corners when the trim is removed.
That all has to be fixed and takes longer.

Silicone (just the normal builders stuff in a caulk gun tube) holds well enough but can be removed with minimal damage when we do the refits.

Just to be clear though, we don't put any trim on horizontal reveals above doors and windows, only on the vertical corners that people can bang on as they move about.
The people who go to the holiday park are like destruction testing mechines and whatever its possible to break, they break and this minimises damage.

Oh and the construction adhesives that set hard with no flex at all? Not much use at all, just sets hard then breaks off.


Offline mkasdin

  • Posts: 475
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2021, 02:59 AM »
Any construction adhesive that typically comes in caulk gun tubes. This is the kind of application they were designed for. Some are made for vertical applications and grab and cure very quickly.

This. If you're going for the ugly solution of an aluminium strip. Wood trim looks much better, also needs such construction glue. Make sure the glue can handle a non-porous surface like metal.

This problem would have been prevented if the original drywaller knew what he was doing and had corner beads installed, that's what they're for.

(Attachment Link)
you would cut back the drywall and fasten the wood trim with 18 gauge nails onto the 2x4.... I’m not sure if he’s planning on doing some treatment on the ceiling of the hallway, so I would entertain that first. I would think that the company that makes the stainless steel z reveal would have a corner bead solution. I just can’t think of the company.  The guy from Texas did a YouTube video on it, “the build show”
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 03:01 AM by mkasdin »

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 701
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2021, 03:06 AM »
Any construction adhesive that typically comes in caulk gun tubes. This is the kind of application they were designed for. Some are made for vertical applications and grab and cure very quickly.

This. If you're going for the ugly solution of an aluminium strip. Wood trim looks much better, also needs such construction glue. Make sure the glue can handle a non-porous surface like metal.

This problem would have been prevented if the original drywaller knew what he was doing and had corner beads installed, that's what they're for.

(Attachment Link)

Oh and those normal corner beads get hammered to junk on the holiday lodges, honestly its amazing what two loads of guests every week does to the lodges. You'd think some of them were trying to wreck the place.
Couples arguing and fist marks in the doors so the door needs replacing, drywall kicked, suitcases, kids pushbikes, wheelchairs all get banged off the corners so the corners take a lot of hammer.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 701
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2021, 03:10 AM »
The bloke from Texas mentioned up there ^ who does The Build Show is called Matt Rissinger and its an excellent source of building science in a practical information type thing.

Well worth a watch.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7665
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2021, 04:56 AM »
I have experimented with silicone as an adhesive, I find it completely worthless. Stuff just drops off after 3 days.

Nothing wrong with the construction adhesives that become very hard, most hold up forever. I've had to remove some constructions made with them, and sometimes I wanted to take out the jackhammer. Ofcourse there are many types from many different brands and not all are as good and long lasting.

I like the development of hybrid caulks lately, can be used both for sealing and glueing light materials and trim. You can paint over them and they stay flexible, and are not too difficult to remove later if you have to.

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1608
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2021, 05:19 AM »
Have to agree with Alex, silicone is not a suitable replacement/substitute for a construction/ PU adhesive.

Personally I'm a big fan of this stuff, simply disregard the automotive part of the product description in your case.

-> https://www.wurthusa.com/Chemical-Product/Adhesive-and-Bonding/Seam-Sealer/Urethane/Bond-and-Seal-Adhesivflex-White-300-Ml/p/08901001

It's the same as this, but this description is better/ more in depth:

-> https://eshop.wuerth.de/Product-categories/Structural-adhesive-Bond-Seal/14013005041106.cyid/1401.cgid/en/US/EUR/?CampaignName=SR001&CatalogCategoryRef=14013005041106%40WuerthGroup-Wuerth-1401&SelectedFilterAttribut=%255B%255D

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2295
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2021, 07:57 AM »
If you're going to use some adhesive or glue to fasten the angle to the wall surface which I assume is drywall from the way everyone is talking isn't your weak point the drywall paper to the gypsum core of the drywall? You can get a good bond with many adhesives to the paper, but if something catches on the edge of that angle it's not that hard to rip the angle and the paper right off the wall. And then you've got a bigger mess.

-----
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Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 316
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2021, 08:59 AM »
The builder/PO of my house used construction adhesive to hold the exterior trim and metal drip edge on all the windows of my house. I’ve been replacing some of those windows. The stuff is very, very tenacious.

I have no doubt that it will hold the edge guard adequately, but whoever does the remodel in the future will curse you. ;)

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2021, 09:50 AM »
I've used this stuff before to fasten both aluminum and plastic corner bead. It will adhere to the aluminum and will be difficult/impossible to remove from the metal. You have to be quick though as it sets up in only 75 seconds.



I've also used it to attach Schluter stainless tile edging to the wall and then 75 seconds later I can go back and start using thinset to attach the tiles.






Offline demographic

  • Posts: 701
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2021, 02:45 PM »
If you're going to use some adhesive or glue to fasten the angle to the wall surface which I assume is drywall from the way everyone is talking isn't your weak point the drywall paper to the gypsum core of the drywall? You can get a good bond with many adhesives to the paper, but if something catches on the edge of that angle it's not that hard to rip the angle and the paper right off the wall. And then you've got a bigger mess.

That^.
Pointless using too strong adhesive cos ut just makes a huge mess when its pulled off.

I would never have even tried using silicone, believing it to be inappropriate but working on those lodges I realised its as strong as it needs to be.
Construction adhesives in the same setting rip the corners to bits when its removed for a refit.
As for the silicone only lasting a few days? It's not special stuff so I have slight doubts if someone says that they've even tried it.

I get that people might not want to try it, given the choice I wouldn't have even tried it myself but thst was the way its done so thats what we were given to use and I was surprised at how well it works.
Thats for a few years.

The hybrid adhesives are indeed way stronger but is that an advantage? On areas where corner beads like this example are fixed using it it rips the corners off the wall during refits.

<shrugs>

Offline Dane

  • Posts: 411
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2021, 04:04 PM »
Surebonder hot melt will hold it forever.  I get a lot of use out if that thing.  Used it on a bathroom tile a year ago- still as good as new

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 642
Re: Question about Metal (aluminum) adhesive
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2021, 08:42 AM »
E-6000, a styrene-based adhesive shares some properties with silicone adhesive. 

First, it remains flexible, and never hardens.
It can handle high heat (I'm not sure of the temperature, but it can be used as a fabric adhesive and put through the dryer).
It adheres well to non-porous surfaces.


It differs mainly in the adhesion trait.  It offers a far greater strength in adhesion. 

It is used widely in the costume jewelry industry to adhere glass "gems" to the metal settings.

I much prefer it as an adhesive than silicone adhesive.  Much stronger.

It is available in hobby sized tubes at Home Depot and most hobby stores.  I believe Grainger carries it in caulking tubes.

This from their website:


E6000 Industrial Adhesive

E6000 is formulated to meet high performance industrial requirements. The self-leveling formula forms a powerful bond with most any material and will remain flexible once cured. E6000 Industrial will handle just about any project DIYers or PROs throw at it!

   
  • Tough – 2X stronger and 60X more flex than Polyurethane!
        Non-flammable once cured
        Chemical resistant – safe for applications exposed to dilute acids and dilute caustics
        Waterproof – can be submerged in fresh and salt water after complete cure
        Paintable – paint to match surrounding area to make UV-resistant
        Temperature resistant – unaffected by extreme heat or cold once cured
        Flexible – excellent for bonding items subject to vibration
http://eclecticproducts.com/products/e6000/e6000-industrial-adhesive.html