Author Topic: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template  (Read 3453 times)

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Offline Festdewalkita

  • Posts: 14
Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« on: October 28, 2020, 11:35 AM »
As a noob (but long-time lurker) looking to do built-ins, closets and eventually my kitchen cabinets, I'm seeing this and wondering if it breaks new ground or improves on a Kreg (or Veritas, etc.) offering.

As I can't stand the thought of re-inventing the wheel, I'm here to learn from those who've already 'been there, done that.'  Thanks in advance...
Domino 500 Q-Set, CT Mini I, CT-VA-20, ETS EC 125/3 EQ+, DWS779, DWV012, DWE 7480, Rolair VT-20TB, Makita SP6000J

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Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 348
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2020, 11:43 AM »
I have used the WP jig.  Other than making sure you use an uncut, vs downcut, its a decent jig.  The downcut, which was recommended in one of the videos, really had burn issues.  You also need to take care of your reference points, top to bottom, etc.  I did not use it much but at least you can get more holes in one positioning than with the Kreg jig (I have that as well).  I have now started using the LR32 so most likely won't use the WP set up.  It is a solid piece of equipment though.

Offline Festdewalkita

  • Posts: 14
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2020, 02:35 PM »
Sorry, I wasn't talking about this one:  https://www.woodpeck.com/combo-shelf-pin-template.html

I was talking about the new one, the combo shelf and drawer jig, for use on existing or new-build cabinets:  https://www.woodpeck.com/shelf-pin-drawer-slide-template.html
Domino 500 Q-Set, CT Mini I, CT-VA-20, ETS EC 125/3 EQ+, DWS779, DWV012, DWE 7480, Rolair VT-20TB, Makita SP6000J

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2192
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2020, 03:20 PM »
The new one ($99, basic) is what I'd get if I made enough shelving to justify it. The last time I did some shelving (a month ago), I used a pegboard to guide the drilling.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 09:10 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 62
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2020, 04:54 PM »
Interesting. I have been looking for a jig and only knew about the old woodpecker. Is the main advantage that the new one can be used to update old cabinets?

Router bit: Upcut should avoid the burn but might create tear-out with plywood or veneer. An alternative are the Festool router bits that are also part of LR32. Festool 491066 Dowel Drill Router Bit. There is a second router bit for through holes. Downsite is that this router but is more expensive.


Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 348
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2020, 05:08 PM »
Sorry, I wasn't talking about this one:  https://www.woodpeck.com/combo-shelf-pin-template.html

I was talking about the new one, the combo shelf and drawer jig, for use on existing or new-build cabinets:  https://www.woodpeck.com/shelf-pin-drawer-slide-template.html

The one you are talking about is a new OTT and at best, you would get it at the end of March.  I don't believe anybody has one so not sure how input you can get.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7860
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2020, 05:26 PM »
I have the original black version from Woodpeckers. It works great for small projects. Think about a cabinet or two and then an occasional cabinet from time to time. I’d purchase the new Woodpeckers version in a heart beat if I didn’t already own the black version.

If you’re building a complete set of kitchen cabinets, then I’d consider the LR 32.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2192
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2020, 08:24 PM »
All WP OTTs have a history of long waiting time. Their targets are not those who need a tool right away or within a few weeks. Hence, partly why I never own a WP OTT (the other part is that I'm good at solving challenges using products that are readily available in the market, or by hand). The long waiting time, however, is necessary for their business model in that their procurement of materials and production won't start until after the order cut-off date.

Offline Festdewalkita

  • Posts: 14
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2020, 08:45 PM »
Xedos--I didn't see the 5-6 mo availability, and while I own WP tools, I've never ordered a OTT.  The original shelf-pin only template is $76.99, and seems most like the things you mentioned, though they seem to be much more flimsy (so go figure they're cheaper).

Chuck M--I won't get to the cabinetry for quite a whiile, so I'm ok with any wait.

Cheese--thanks for the input.  I'm new to all of it, and haven't gotten to this piece of Festool gear.  I'll go look before putting my finger on the WP trigger.

Chuck M--pegboard seems very clever, if maybe a bit flimsy.  I don't have any lying around presently...I could pick some up the next time I'm out.  Did you get any creep when you drilled?  I've seen that hack mentioned a few times.

I like the idea of being able to do both the drawer rails *and* the shelf pins (instead of buying two different jigs), but not sure if it's comparable or an improvement on anything already out there.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 08:47 PM by Festdewalkita »
Domino 500 Q-Set, CT Mini I, CT-VA-20, ETS EC 125/3 EQ+, DWS779, DWV012, DWE 7480, Rolair VT-20TB, Makita SP6000J

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2192
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2020, 08:57 PM »

Chuck M--pegboard seems very clever, if maybe a bit flimsy.  I don't have any lying around presently...I could pick some up the next time I'm out.  Did you get any creep when you drilled?  I've seen that hack mentioned a few times.


The pegboard doesn't match the commercial drilling jigs (such as those Xedos has posted) in terms of precision -- although the degree of precision required for shelf holes is really not that critical. https://www.woodcraft.com/blog_entries/easy-to-make-shelf-pin-drilling-jig (Googled and found this one with images: https://sawdustgirl.com/diy-shelf-pin-drill-jig/)

Creeps are not a concern as the board is spring-clamped in place before drilling. As shown in its video, the WPP OTT also needs to be properly clamped.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 09:27 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Festdewalkita

  • Posts: 14
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2020, 10:21 PM »
Chuck M--This is the creep of which I spoke:  "The holes in your template will become enlarged after repeated use, so if do [sic] a lot of drilling for shelf pins, you may want to consider purchasing a jig such as a Veritas Shelf Drilling Jig."

That Veritas jig shows $145.50 on Lee Valley.  It doesn't look like it helps align drawer hardware, though.  While cheaper than the LR-32 system, it's comparable to the price of the new WP complete shelf/drawer jig set (that includes a Whiteside 5mm upcut spiral bit and a 1/4 inch drill bit).
Domino 500 Q-Set, CT Mini I, CT-VA-20, ETS EC 125/3 EQ+, DWS779, DWV012, DWE 7480, Rolair VT-20TB, Makita SP6000J

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2192
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2020, 10:59 PM »
Now I see what you meant. So far I haven't had any issue on that. If one day the board is worn, I'll use the other holes or cut a new sheet. Not too often do I build something that has more than one or two shelves.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7860
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2020, 10:16 AM »

Cheese--thanks for the input.  I'm new to all of it, and haven't gotten to this piece of Festool gear.  I'll go look before putting my finger on the WP trigger.


Both Woodpecker versions are made out of 3/8" thick phenolic so they are extremely robust compared to some 3/16" thick plastic clone.

The nice thing about the Woodpecker item is that you insert 2 registration pins, clamp and then start drilling holes.







The Festool LR 32 template on the other hand, needs a lot more setup time and additional gyrations. It works great though for large/many/tall cabinets.


Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 983
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2020, 10:56 AM »
5-6 month wait ? [eek]  Only for the serious collector.

Same thing, half price:
https://www.amazon.com/Euro-Limited-Adjustable-System-Template/dp/B01LLY2OOS

Same thing, 1/4 price:
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-13-hole-32-mm-spacing-shelf-pin-jig?gclid=Cj0KCQjwreT8BRDTARIsAJLI0KIBdW7HOzieM7msNV0raG7ZlWfwlFR0TwQuHhSvn3MmuSAZCJkjVOIaAgatEALw_wcB#

Both can be had now.

Pegboard works too as do any number of jigs, however the Woodpeckers one is better than both you suggested for not much more money. Even better solutions exist, but the price points move into the $100's if not $1,000's. I have tried a lot of them and settled on the Mafell DD40 with templates (which have other uses). I am considering a line drilling stationary machine as my business grows.

Offline HDClown

  • Posts: 94
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2020, 11:21 AM »
I am thinking about getting this new OTT to use with OF1010.  I happen have a Festool 491066 Dowel Drill Router bit already (from a Festool router bit set).  Anyone know if I would be able to use the Whiteside - #0540-38N Precision 3/8" OD Template Guide Bushing with the 491066 and the OF1010 for use with this jig, or if there is some other guide bushing I should get instead?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7860
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2020, 11:28 AM »
Even better solutions exist, but the price points move into the $100's if not $1,000's. I have tried a lot of them and settled on the Mafell DD40 with templates (which have other uses). I am considering a line drilling stationary machine as my business grows.

https://schmitt32.com/collections/new-systems/products/42-schmitt32-am

Here's a Schmitt32 system 42" long.



Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7860
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2020, 11:46 AM »
Anyone know if I would be able to use the Whiteside - #0540-38N Precision 3/8" OD Template Guide Bushing with the 491066 and the OF1010 for use with this jig, or if there is some other guide bushing I should get instead?

I believe it'd work fine, you just need to fit the Festool 469625 template guide adaptor.




Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2192
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2020, 01:02 PM »

The Festool LR 32 template on the other hand, needs a lot more setup time and additional gyrations. It works great though for large/many/tall cabinets.


I have seen the LR 32 used (mostly in videos), and I consider it on par with using a dovetail jig and a router: if you use it often, you can set it up with ease and produce accurate and quick results. However, for people like me who do holes once or twice a year, I'd spend more time in familiarizing with the jig (each time I use it) and drilling. For that kind of reason, I sold my Leigh jig (rarely used) and took up cutting dovetails by hand, for which like riding a bike, the skill won't be forgotten over time. The pegboard approach is only good for folks like me, mostly a hobbyist furniture maker rather than a cabinetmaker.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 04:53 PM by ChuckM »

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 791
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2020, 03:08 PM »
I need a jig in the next week so I'm getting the combo template that's available. This new one looks nice but I can't wait 6 months
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2192
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2020, 08:28 PM »
Just came across this: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG7T3LgF_Te/

Not deadly accurate, but seems good enough for most applications where you have only a few boards to bore.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2192
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2020, 10:48 AM »
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/cutting-holes-for-shelf-pins/

sounds like another option out there (for those who prefer routing holes).

Offline Festdewalkita

  • Posts: 14
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2020, 11:00 PM »
JimH2, ChuckM, Cheese--thank you so much for taking the time to think about  and write an answer to my question.  I very much appreciate it.
Domino 500 Q-Set, CT Mini I, CT-VA-20, ETS EC 125/3 EQ+, DWS779, DWV012, DWE 7480, Rolair VT-20TB, Makita SP6000J

Offline cubevandude

  • Posts: 94
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2020, 08:58 AM »
Just came across this: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG7T3LgF_Te/

Not deadly accurate, but seems good enough for most applications where you have only a few boards to bore.

This would be perfect for making a template.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 414
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2020, 09:21 AM »
Quote
Xedos--I didn't see the 5-6 mo availability,

Scroll down the link and look at the "scheduled" delivery date.  The math is easy.  OTT are often later than projected delivery date. Since you can wait prob. not a big deal.

Quote
though they seem to be much more flimsy


While they aren't as stout as phenolic, they are far from flimsy.  Aluminum would be more stout than phenol. Does that change your opinion of the WP's "stoutness" or "cheapness" ?  Everything's a compromise.  If you love the WP and think it the best - get it.  With or without validation form the group.   It is certainly up to the job.

Quote
but not sure if it's comparable or an improvement on anything already out there.

It's both.  But at a price.


If you want fast, cheap , and easy , this is fairly compelling:

https://www.fastcap.com/product/layout-tape-system




Offline Festdewalkita

  • Posts: 14
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2020, 11:24 AM »
Xedos-Thanks for your points.  I should have typed I saw the delivery date (specific to item added to cart) after you pointed it out.

If TSO or someone else (or Woodpeckers!) came out with an aluminum or stainless steel shelf/drawer alignment tool and it were more expensive, I'd consider the materials quality used (and current spot vs contract commodities prices) in my buying evaluation.

I really like Fastcap, so thank you for that as well (looks like an interesting consumable at $9.95/cabinet).  Side note, I've found Fastcap's customer service (hat tip{h/t} to Thomas Emmett) to be phenomenal in the mini woodworking spending spree my wife and I initiated in the past 6-8 weeks.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 12:56 PM by Festdewalkita »
Domino 500 Q-Set, CT Mini I, CT-VA-20, ETS EC 125/3 EQ+, DWS779, DWV012, DWE 7480, Rolair VT-20TB, Makita SP6000J

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2192
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2020, 11:34 AM »
Snip.  (looks like an interesting consumable at $9.95/cabinet).  Side note, I've found Fastcap's customer service (hat tip{h/t} to Thomas Emmett) to be phenomenal in the mini woodworking spending spree my wife and I initiated in the past 6-8 weeks.
$9.95/60 feet

Offline Festdewalkita

  • Posts: 14
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2020, 12:47 PM »
ChuckM--yes, thank you!  I misread (again!...stupid details).  60 feet of tape probably works out to what, 10+ cabinets?  Big difference (< ~$1/cab).
Domino 500 Q-Set, CT Mini I, CT-VA-20, ETS EC 125/3 EQ+, DWS779, DWV012, DWE 7480, Rolair VT-20TB, Makita SP6000J

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 414
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2020, 08:35 PM »
For a tenner, a roll of FastCap tape should yield a half a dozen base cabinets.  ;D

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 19
Re: Woodpeckers Shelf Pin & Drawer Slide Template
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2020, 04:04 PM »
I've been using the Kreg shelf pin drilling jig.  It is easy enough to use and it includes a drill bit and has a place to store the bit when not using it.

My problem with it is that the holes all have significant tear-out whether I am drilling in hardwood or plywood. 

Any suggestions?  Perhaps my battery powered drill is not spinning fast enough?

https://www.kregtool.com/shop/hardware-installation/cabinet-shelf-jigs/shelf-pin-jig-with-5mm-bit/KMA3220.html