Author Topic: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop  (Read 6398 times)

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Offline Df1k1

  • Posts: 133
Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« on: October 22, 2020, 04:45 PM »
Just saw the announcement today of woodpeckers new tool. Didn’t know if anyone had any thoughts on it but seems like a genius way to set up multiple cuts on your Saw Stop. I’m sure there’s easier ways but this struck me as a great idea, especially the dado feature.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 08:13 AM by Df1k1 »

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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2282
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2020, 07:08 AM »
Interested but Woodpeckers product description says it only works with Sawstop saws.

They may offer a version for other saws later it says. I don't see what limits the use of
this to only Sawstop saws. Why would it not fit my Unisaw 36-L336 fence rail.

Only difference I can see might be the width of the fence lock lever is probably different. But that would seem to require only a different length coupling pin.

What am I missing?

« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 07:13 AM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4205
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2020, 07:17 AM »
That's interesting that they have profiled their customer base as being both Festool and SawStop users. I'm not disputing that, and certainly I know there's a fair number of folks on the forum that run SawStop.  I just didn't realize that there was that close of a correlation such that Woodpeckers could count on sufficient numbers for it's initial run of this accessory.

Interested but Woodpeckers product description says it only works with Sawstop saws.

They may offer a version for other saws later it says. I don't see what limits the use of
this to only Sawstop saws. Why would it not fit my Unisaw 36-L336 fence rail.

Only difference I can see might be the width of the fence lock lever is probably different. But that would seem to require only a different length coupling pin.

What am I missing?
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Offline cpw

  • Posts: 309
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2020, 08:36 AM »
That's interesting that they have profiled their customer base as being both Festool and SawStop users. I'm not disputing that, and certainly I know there's a fair number of folks on the forum that run SawStop.  I just didn't realize that there was that close of a correlation such that Woodpeckers could count on sufficient numbers for it's initial run of this accessory.

Interested but Woodpeckers product description says it only works with Sawstop saws.

They may offer a version for other saws later it says. I don't see what limits the use of
this to only Sawstop saws. Why would it not fit my Unisaw 36-L336 fence rail.

Only difference I can see might be the width of the fence lock lever is probably different. But that would seem to require only a different length coupling pin.

What am I missing?

My guess is they test it with Sawstop, but not other brands even if they think it will work.  At this point; I think you either have a Sawstop, jobsite saw, or the rest of the market is very fragmented.  You'll have some PMs, Jets, old iron, contractor saws from Delta.  But all of that is inconsistent, if you are aiming for an expensive table saw accessory, the Sawstop seems like the most uniform market.

Edward, I'm not sure there needs to be any correlation with Festool ownership for Woodpeckers to make that calculation (but there probably is some given both are premium tools).

I've got a lot of Festool, but my Sawstop came first [as did the Woodpeckers table built into the side].  If I were to buy another table saw it would either be another Sawstop or a Euro slider.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3545
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2020, 08:41 AM »
i have a SawStop Industrial model and the Flip Stop looks very attractive. I think being able to return the fence to an exact point is a valuable asset for me.
Birdhunter

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2282
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2020, 11:17 AM »
I contacted Woodpeckers with some questions and received this response.

“Thanks for your interest in our new Rip Flip System.  The current system is designed to mount to the factory hardware and dimensions on the T Glide  Fence system.  We are currently working on  a different and more universal system that may fit a wider variety of saws that use a Biesemeyer style rail system.   The main challenge is designing around the many different styles of fence locking mechanisms on the market and making sure that those fences will line up properly with the flip stops.  While the track may fit different saws, it is useless unless the flip stops work with the Fence locks.   We are testing this new version on Powermatic that we fitted with both of their fence styles.”


I got pretty much the same response to my email this morning.

" You'll have some PMs, Jets, old iron, contractor saws from Delta.  But all of that is inconsistent,"

There are many, many cabinet saws that use the Biesemeyer style fences. Their designs are so similar that I doubt much change is needed between them to work.

If WP hesitates to offer a version that works with the thousands of Unisaws and PM2000, Jet, Grizzly, and other brands out there someone WILL fill that gap.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2282
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2020, 11:20 AM »
In a second email I was told that they are working on having a version for other saws very soon, maybe before Christmas.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2874
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2020, 11:26 AM »
My take on why they chose SawStop to build their first fence stop on is this: potential sales. SawStop has been the #1 selling cabinet saws in the US and their owners in general have spending power for accessories. Not a lot of people are willing to spend another $400 US (including the dado option) on an accessory.

Other saws will have their turn just a little later than the SawStop folks.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 11:31 AM by ChuckM »

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 309
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2020, 11:35 AM »
My take on why they chose SawStop to build their first fence stop on is this: potential sales. SawStop has been the #1 selling cabinet saws in the US and their owners in general have spending power for accessories. Not a lot of people are willing to spend another $400 US (including the dado option) on an accessory.

Other saws will have their turn just a little later than the SawStop folks.
As I read the page it is $200 to have the dado option on 52" rails, for $199 pre-order on https://www.woodpeck.com/rip-flip-fence.html:
"Includes 52" capacity anodized aluminum track with mounting brackets and hardware, two Rip-Flip Stops and one dado Coupling Pin"

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2874
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2020, 12:01 PM »

As I read the page it is $200 to have the dado option on 52" rails, for $199 pre-order on https://www.woodpeck.com/rip-flip-fence.html:
"Includes 52" capacity anodized aluminum track with mounting brackets and hardware, two Rip-Flip Stops and one dado Coupling Pin"
Sharp-eyed on my typo. [wink] Not a good Android keyboard user here. (Now back on my usual laptop.)

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2874
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2020, 12:06 PM »
Another similar option from Custom Fabricating Solutions. I am not affiliated with this manufacturer in any way.

https://www.customfabricatingsolutions.com/store/p2/Table_Saw_Fence_Micro-Adjuster.html#/



Price-wise, the WP system seems to be a better deal as its package includes a lot more items and the dado function.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 12:25 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2020, 12:11 PM »
Is this Woodpecker system better than a Wixey Saw Fence Digital Readout?  My preference would be the DRO..     
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 12:14 PM by Chris Perren »

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2874
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2020, 12:41 PM »
Is this Woodpecker system better than a Wixey Saw Fence Digital Readout?  My preference would be the DRO..     

If I were considering the WP rip fence, I'd wait until I see some user feedback (i.e. after next Feb.), because a) the introductory prices (ending Nov. 2) are not a huge saver, and b) the product is yet to be proven in the consumer field.

I only saw some reviews on the Wixey product, but have not known anyone in person who has it (about $130US in Canada). One of the videos I've seen is this:


« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 12:56 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2282
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2020, 05:02 PM »
Does the Wixey have hard stops?

Once you set the stops they are good until you move them. Next cut or next week it doesn't change.

With the Wixey you have to eyeball each time you want to duplicate a setting as I see it.I

So if I'm correct the Wixey is more of a one time setting aid, the WP stop is rock solid repeatability.

I like Wixey prosducts. I have a few of them, but the Woodpeckers flip stop system I'd take that any day plus the easy dado setup.

If they don't come out with a version for my Unisaw I will make my own.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8888
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2020, 06:23 PM »
1. Does the Wixey have hard stops?

2. Once you set the stops they are good until you move them. Next cut or next week it doesn't change.

3. With the Wixey you have to eyeball each time you want to duplicate a setting as I see it.I

4. So if I'm correct the Wixey is more of a one time setting aid, the WP stop is rock solid repeatability.

I've attached the Wixey to my metal lathe. For what my needs are and for the price I paid, it works extremely well. To fit a conventional commercial DRO to my lathe I was looking at $1400-$1900. I think I paid $110 for the Wixey.

1. No...I'd call it a "soft stop" at best.

2. Yes & no...If you shut off the DRO and move NOTHING, the next time you turn it on the Wixey will be in the same position and will now still register 0.000. However, any time during that period that you're not using the saw, just a slight bump of the fence may move the Wixey and thus the "soft stop" as it were has been moved.

3. What would work is to get all the materials and cutting widths together so everything can be cut in 1 cutting session. So instead of using the saw's scale you'll be using the DRO instead. It is repeatable and accurate to .005".

4. Yes...I thought about adding the Wixey to my table saw but I actually like the Woodpecker better with the hard stops.

I think the important thing in woodworking is to get an absolutely repeatable size, whether it's .005" or .010" or 1/64 inches too wide you don't really care as long as that width is repeatable all the time.

For metal working the important thing is getting the exact size.

The best solution would be to combine the Wixey & the Woodpecker.   [cool]

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 309
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2020, 06:47 PM »
Watching the deep dive today, this is actually a less expensive solution for nominal 1/4" drawer bottoms than an undersized Dado set like this one:
https://www.forrestblades.com/dado-king/8-thin-kerf-dados-3-piece-set-with-1-16-chipper/

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 823
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2020, 07:22 PM »
I got my SawStop ~$150 cheaper by letting them know I didn’t want the stock fence and instead went straight to the Incra TS-LS Joinery System. Besides calibrating it, I’ve never had to use a rule again and have repeatable cuts and micro adjustability to +/- 0.05mm or +/- 0.002”.  It wasn’t cheap but none of these tools are and it’s a really nice fence system.

https://www.incra.com/table_saw_fences-tsls_joinery.html

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2020, 09:27 PM »
@Cheese - I didn't realize that the Wixey DRO lost its positioning if moved when its off... That surprising and would be disappointing.  All of my DROs maintain positioning independent of power although they are more expensive than Wixey.     

- Chris         

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8888
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2020, 10:15 PM »
@Cheese - I didn't realize that the Wixey DRO lost its positioning if moved when its off... That surprising and would be disappointing.  All of my DROs maintain positioning independent of power although they are more expensive than Wixey.         

Chris you're probably talking about DRO's that are 10-20 times the cost of the Wixey module. I'll check for you tomorrow morning but I'm certain to the 99th percentile that once you turn it off and move it, it's lost its original homing position. As far as I know there is no extra intelligence on board the Wixey products. Just the ability to zero their position and then measure any forward or rearward movement. Also, any onboard intelligence would further shorten the battery life on the module.

I'd love it if I'm wrong.  [big grin]

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2020, 10:52 PM »
Hi @Cheese

I just review the FAQ for WR700... Base on #2, it appears it has memory... I'm interested if your model has memory too.

http://www.wixey.com/fence/faq/index.html#02


How Long does the battery last if I turn off the readout?
How long does the battery last?


The battery life should be 6 months with the unit turned on or off. Because the readout always maintains the calibration even when it is turned off, it is actually reading all the time. Turning it off only turns off the display which takes almost no power to run. Removing the battery is the only way to conserve it's life but then you have to recalibrate every time.


Thanks Chris

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 3050
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2020, 11:36 PM »
@Cheese - It should remember it’s location if it has a battery even if turned off.  I have Wixey’s on my router table, my jointer/planer and my thickness sander.  All of them remember the setting even if they are off and I change the position of the cutters.

Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 810
  • Michigan
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2020, 06:15 AM »
I can confirm that the Wixey batteries run down even with no use.  Since I sometimes go months between saw use I now remove the battery when I know I won't be using it again for a while.

Recalibrating takes a couple minutes and is trivial.

In my experience repeatability is as good as hard stops, but a bit more fiddly to get the exact reading a second time (down to a .001 inch).  A micro adjust would make it nearly as quick as a hard stop.  I've had mine for 8-10 years and would recommend it to anyone.

Fred
Fred

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2874
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2020, 01:54 PM »
I've had mine for 8-10 years and would recommend it to anyone.

Fred

Hi Fred,

Since embracing the dominoes and handcut dovetails as my only go-to joinery methods, I haven't used dadoes anymore (grooves, yes). Between the WR700 and the WP, obviously the DRO would be my pick (if I were to get a rip fence stop) since dadoes are no longer used. But I have a question for you.

I need to cut a door, say, 12" wide to match an opening (say 12-15/16"), both measured using my go-to tape. Currently, I'd use that tape to set my saw fence to 12" (while the scale on the table saw might be a little over 12" or under 12", but that wouldn't matter). With the WR700 set-up, how do you ensure or calibrate so that the 12" shown is exactly the same 12" on my tape?

« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 02:12 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3545
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2020, 08:39 PM »
I seldom rely on measuring anymore. I tend to make “story sticks” that I use for repeatability. The Flip Stop looks like a neat “story stick”. I ordered one today.
Birdhunter

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2874
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2020, 09:26 PM »
I seldom rely on measuring anymore. I tend to make “story sticks” that I use for repeatability. The Flip Stop looks like a neat “story stick”. I ordered one today.

Essentially, the way I described above is a story stick approach: The tape itself is the story stick which is used to set the fence against the saw blade. If the measurement is odd, I put a pencil mark on the tape (Fastcap, writable); even, I use the printed line on the tape.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1354
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2020, 11:51 AM »
Is this Woodpecker system better than a Wixey Saw Fence Digital Readout?  My preference would be the DRO..     

If I were considering the WP rip fence, I'd wait until I see some user feedback (i.e. after next Feb.), because a) the introductory prices (ending Nov. 2) are not a huge saver, and b) the product is yet to be proven in the consumer field.

I only saw some reviews on the Wixey product, but have not known anyone in person who has it (about $130US in Canada). One of the videos I've seen is this:

I have this Wixey set up on my SS.  Works fabulous.  No more guess work on critical measurements and I can also easily switch back and forth between Imperial and Metric. 
Howard H
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Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 976
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2020, 11:00 AM »
The old UniSaw UniFence had a similar flip stop system built in.  I'm not sure that it could be used for dados - never tried.  It was -very- useful for repeating fence setups, and it's one design feature of my old saw that I really miss with the Saw Stop.


I'm going for the Rip Flip Fence Stop when it's available just for the repeatability.  If it ends up being useful for dados, so much the better, though I find myself using dados less frequently as well.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2282
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2020, 08:42 AM »
I've never seen that stop system you speak of Harvey, searched the web but couldn't find an example of it.

I received an email from WP yesterday that they now have a version to fit PowerMatic tale saws, with more versions (which I am guessing is the same rail with whatever custom mounting hardware is needed) are in the works for other brand saws with T-square style fences.

Edit 7-17-21: Did some searching because I was curious @HarveyWildes and found the manual for the UniFence and shows the fence stop you spoke of. You are right it's very similar in functionality of the Rip-Flip.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 07:47 AM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1332
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2021, 11:29 AM »
Anybody end up getting on of these and care to comment on what they think about it?
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2282
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2021, 01:54 AM »
Mine is working great. Very easy to setup.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 07:31 AM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3545
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2021, 07:36 AM »
I think I replied to a very similar post earlier. Mine is installed on a SawStop Industrial. It works exactly as advertised. It is crucial to follow the installation instructions. The bolts that attach the unit also hold the fence rail onto the saw. If you loosen too many of these bolts at the same time, your fence will have to be completely recalibrated. My unit came in two sections. The sections meet in the middle of the saw. You need to be sure the two sections butt together perfectly so that the flip stop will slide smoothly across the joint.

The unit is of high quality and provides strong stops. Good product. 
Birdhunter

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2021, 08:29 AM »
We just posted a new video of the Rip-Flip in action cutting dadoes, if you're interested.


Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2021, 07:53 PM »
We added a kit of modification brackets and parts to the Powermatic model making it compatible with pretty much anything that looks like a Biesemeyer T-Square fence. It has been beta tested on a pretty broad array of new, old and in between fences If it has a 2x3 rectangular tube bolted to the fence via an angle iron, it will almost surely fit. https://www.woodpeck.com/rip-flip-fence-pm.html

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2282
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2021, 09:13 PM »
This is good news. I want to thank WP for releasing a kit that works with other brands of saws.

I have enjoyed using mine on my Unisaw. I want to get another pair of stops so I can do even more and have multiple setups. No longer do you have to run everything through at one fence setting because you worry you might not set the fence exactly the same. Any dimension can now be saved and repeated any time in the future.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 760
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2021, 09:21 PM »
I have a 1950 Uni that my son and I completely refurbished (probably the most fun I ever had on a project) and it had a Jet-Lock fence that worked well but I was use to using a Biese fence so added a clone. Looks like this WP fence stop may fit it perfectly.

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2021, 09:44 PM »
This is good news. I want to thank WP for releasing a kit that works with other brands of saws.

I have enjoyed using mine on my Unisaw. I want to get another pair of stops so I can do even more and have multiple setups. No longer do you have to run everything through at one fence setting because you worry you might not set the fence exactly the same. Any dimension can now be saved and repeated any time in the future.

Bob, were you one of our beta testers, or did you just roll the dice and get the Powermatic version?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2282
Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2021, 05:48 AM »
This is good news. I want to thank WP for releasing a kit that works with other brands of saws.

I have enjoyed using mine on my Unisaw. I want to get another pair of stops so I can do even more and have multiple setups. No longer do you have to run everything through at one fence setting because you worry you might not set the fence exactly the same. Any dimension can now be saved and repeated any time in the future.

Bob, were you one of our beta testers, or did you just roll the dice and get the Powermatic version?

I worked with Nate on the beta test for the Unisaw last Fall.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Woodpeckers new Rip Flip Fence Stop
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2021, 06:28 AM »

I worked with Nate on the beta test for the Unisaw last Fall.

Thanks for that. Nothing beats real world testing.