Author Topic: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide  (Read 3537 times)

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Offline rmhinden

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Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« on: August 07, 2022, 05:02 PM »
Received the Woodpecker ThinRip Guide last Friday.   This morning, I set it up, aligned it with my saw-blade and did some 1/16" test cuts.    The strips were very consistent across their length and right on the mark.

It's also more substantial that I was expecting (a good thing) and has an imperial and metric scale.

I am pleased, I think it was worth the money (and I don't say that about all Woodpecker products).    I have made strips using other methods earlier, this is an improvement, especially for making specific thicknesses.

Bob


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Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2022, 06:38 PM »
I had the same reaction. I placed a small strip of tape just under the scale to mark the zero point so I don’t have to reset it every time I use it.

I’m trying to build a wall mount. Any ideas?
Birdhunter

Offline rmhinden

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2022, 11:29 AM »
I had the same reaction. I placed a small strip of tape just under the scale to mark the zero point so I don’t have to reset it every time I use it.

I’m trying to build a wall mount. Any ideas?

When I calibrated mine, I was able to adjust the scale maker to the longer scale lines.     I have been thinking about how to store it (where and how), but nothing definitive yet.

Bob

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2022, 11:59 AM »
I made a simple wall mount with two protruding wood dowels that fit through the two holes in the jig. It's a bit fiddley.
Birdhunter

Offline rmhinden

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2022, 08:33 PM »
I made a simple wall mount with two protruding wood dowels that fit through the two holes in the jig. It's a bit fiddley.

Here is what I did.

Bob

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Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2022, 09:10 PM »
Is there enough margin on the miter slot guides to be secure?
Birdhunter

Offline rmhinden

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2022, 09:51 PM »
Yes, I think so.

Two option though, I can tighten the knobs, or I was thinking of adding a flip up gate to keep in in the slots.   

Bob

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2022, 09:57 PM »
I made a simple wall mount with two protruding wood dowels that fit through the two holes in the jig. It's a bit fiddley.

Here is what I did.

Bob

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Funny as I have been working on something very similar in SketchUp when I get time. It is almost the same design as your wall mount   but I have a couple magnets set to grab the jig when it's slid into the hanger and I will print it on the 3D printer. Should be done early next week. I have a couple days worth of printing to do making some items for a friend that he sells.

I should add thought that since I don't have a Thin Rip Guide most of my dimensions are a guess except for the WP T-Slot Nut which I have a few of so I can grab dimensions off that. But the overall size of the Guide itself I can only take an educated guess at.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 10:00 PM by Bob D. »
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Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2022, 01:54 PM »
The guide’s body is aluminum and “immune” to magnets. Not sure about the two bolts that fit into the miter slots. They may be magnetic.
Birdhunter

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2022, 06:41 PM »
yes but the T-slot nuts are steel, at least mine are.
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Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2022, 12:04 PM »
I tested my unit ands the T-slot nuts are steel and magnetic.
Birdhunter

Offline smorgasbord

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2022, 02:10 PM »
I don't understand the appeal of these kind of guides:

1) Takes patience/skill to setup.
2) Takes eyesight and skill to move the guide for each rip.
3) They're expensive.
4) They can't be that accurate.

Let me explain:
1) Setup:
1a - slide the unit into the miter gauge
1b - lock the base down with the unit at the right front-to-back distance
1c - slide the top piece until it "just kisses" a tooth (may have to adjust front-to-back distance, or raise/lower the blade)
1d - zero the scale
1e - slide the top piece until the cross hair is at the desired thickness

2) Each Rip:
2a - slide the fence with the wood against it until it "kisses" the bearing
2b - lock the fence and check wood/bearing clearance.
2c - most fences move a bit when locked down, so re-do 2a->2b until you're satisfied with the clearance
2d - perform the cut

3) $150

4) Accuracy
4a - The graduations are a coarse 1/16" for the Woodpecker's version
4b - The cursor is not magnified
4c - It's literally your eyesight and hand control that determine the actual resulting thickness.


Although I'm a Boomer myself, I see the new digital world as better than the "tricks" old-time woodworkers have employed (myself included) in the past. There was a thread here on tablesaw fences and I replied with positive things to say about my Wixey DRO (Digital ReadOut). Without buying anything new, that Wixey enables me to perform more precise rips more quickly than I bet anyone can do with the Woodpeckers. For literally the same money ($150) I get a multi-purpose and more accurate tool.

So, how do I perform thin rips:

0) One-time setup per blade: Cut a kerf in a block of wood and use digital calipers to measure it. Write it down. That measurement stays with the blade until you sharpen it.

1) Setup:
1a - Set the fence so it'll trim off the slightest bit of wood on a rip
1b - Zero the DRO's Incremental readout (aka, push a button for 2 secs)
1c - Perform that rip
1d - Math. Add the kerf thickness to the desired rip thickness and memorize/write that sum down.

2) Each Rip:
2a - Slide the fence until the DRO displays the Sum value you memorized/wrote down and lock it down
2b - Perform the cut
2c - Re-zero the DRO's Incremental readout (aka, push a button for 2 secs)

That's it. No special tools to buy or figure out how to hang on the wall. Way more accuracy. How are you going to get a 5/64" rip when your graduations are in 1/16", not to mention doing so with accurate repeatability? With the DRO, accuracy is in the range of a few thousandths of an inch. I myself use metric now, btw, so even the math part is trivial. Even the tap-tap of moving the rip fence is easier and faster to do against a DRO than with a block of wood against the fence just kissing a bearing.

When I look at tools like this Thin Rip Guide and their Flip Stop system for Tablesaws, I can't help but think that Woodpeckers are over-engineering antiquated ways of woodworking. Why spend $150 just to do thin rips and another $200 just to have repeatability for some (not all) rip fence settings and yet still not have a way to accurately set your fence? A single $150 DRO permanently mounted to the saw will cover that and so much more, such as cutting tenon cheeks to an accurate thickness, etc.

Technology has made straightforward accuracy available to many home shops. Time to abandon the tips and tricks the real old-time woodworkers employed to compensate for deficiencies that are no longer necessary, and certainly time to not spend huge amounts of money of expensive single-purpose tools whose convenience and accuracy are questionable.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 02:13 PM by smorgasbord »

Offline 4nthony

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2022, 05:09 PM »
I can understand not wanting to buy a tool for whatever reason, but wow, there's a lot in your post. I'll bite, but I'll keep it to your first 4 points.

I don't understand the appeal of these kind of guides:

1) Takes patience/skill to setup.

Slide it into the miter slot, adjust the width of the rip. Make the cut. Nudge the fence.

I'm a pretty patient person, my skill is debatable, and I can set up the jig in less than a minute.

2) Takes eyesight and skill to move the guide for each rip.

Eyesight, yes. I've acknowledged that I can't get by in the shop without my readers. Ugh, the fun of getting old. Skill? Well, you're just placing a cursor over a mark, not sure how much skill is required.

I moved the fence, kissed the bearing with the material, did a quick feel of the friction on the bearing, and made my cut. It wasn't hard and I didn't need to use a feeler gauge.

3) They're expensive.

I'll give you that. Certainly more expensive than my DIY jig. But it's shiny and red!



4) They can't be that accurate.

I needed a few 4mm thin strips for edge banding. I used my old eyes to set up the jig and if you look close enough, I was ever so slightly + of the 4mm mark. It took me about 5 minutes to knock these out (I take my time, this is not production work for me, and I turn off my saw between rips to be safe). Even so, my accuracy from cut to cut was 4.10, 4.11, and 4.12.



Wixey fence accuracy:



Anyhow, my results might not be accurate enough for a machinist, but they're pretty accurate for my woodworking.

Cheers,
Anthony
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Offline smorgasbord

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2022, 07:47 PM »
Hmm. You wanted 4mm rips and got 4.11mm (average) rips and you're happy with that from a dedicated $150 tool?

Even if the Woodpecker's guide gave you perfect 4mm thin rips right of the bat, wouldn't it still be better to spend that money on a DRO retrofit to enable so many other types of cuts to also be accurate?

Offline squall_line

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2022, 08:54 PM »
Keep in mind that the thin rip guide, much like 4nthony's prior jig, is intended to cut the thin strip on the opposite side of the blade from the fence, rather than the near side of the fence.  This should lessen the chance of a kickback or other pinch of the super narrow piece.

With the DRO, accuracy is in the range of a few thousandths of an inch.

Hmm. You wanted 4mm rips and got 4.11mm (average) rips and you're happy with that from a dedicated $150 tool?

0.11mm = 0.0043 inches, which is literally "a few thousandths of an inch".  4nthony can defend himself, but given that he acknowledged he set up his guide slightly wide of the line, this seems to be even within your own definition of "Way more accuracy".

Offline 4nthony

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2022, 08:56 PM »
Hmm. You wanted 4mm rips and got 4.11mm (average) rips and you're happy with that from a dedicated $150 tool?

Yeah, I'm cool with it for woodworking. I'm going to lose some of that .11 when I sand.

Even though they were +.11 -- no fault of the tool -- from the intended size, they were all +/- .01 off the average. They may have been slightly off, but they were consistently off. "Kissing" the fence worked fine. If I wanted needed exactly 4mm, I could've used a setup block, at which point, I'd argue it would be more accurate than a DRO (see below).

Quote
Even if the Woodpecker's guide gave you perfect 4mm thin rips right of the bat, wouldn't it still be better to spend that money on a DRO retrofit to enable so many other types of cuts to also be accurate?

All DROs, especially Wixey products, have accuracy issues. They state as much on their website. Their fence DRO is +/- .13, so my .11 isn't looking so bad. [cool]

Otherwise, I don't often have too many accuracy issues. The analog features built into the majority of my tools are working out OK me.
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Online Cheese

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2022, 10:50 PM »
Hmm. You wanted 4mm rips and got 4.11mm (average) rips and you're happy with that from a dedicated $150 tool?

@smorgasbord ...Just curious what kind of tolerances you're capable of holding when you're ripping narrow slats. Would slats that are .004" too thick be stuffed into the recycle bin? How about slats that are .003" too thick or .002"?

You're talking about holding machined wooden parts to a tolerance that is only practicable using a knee mill and even then that's a push because of the existential properties of wood. I've milled both metal and wood on a Bridgeport and metal will give you a more consistent result because of...well you know.

FWIW, after looking at the 4nthony results, I just dialed up and ordered the Woodpeckers Rip Guide.

Offline smorgasbord

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2022, 11:03 PM »
Again, my beef isn't about accuracy, it's about what you spend your money on.

For $150 one can get a nicely made tool dedicated to thin rips.

Or, for the same $150, one can get a decent DRO that can be used for more than good-enough woodworking accuracy for thin rips, regular rips, repeat an old rip days/weeks/months later, cut tenon cheeks, etc., etc.

That's all. It's not that the Rip Guide is bad, it's that for the same money one can get a more general purpose tool with I believe the same accuracy. I'll try some rips this weekend if you really want.

Offline cpw

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2022, 09:37 AM »
Consistency likely matters more than the absolute error.  I am sure that I will have more repeatability with the thin rip jig (or the cheap alternative that many of us use) than having to use a DRO and moving the fence each time.  For something that is more than a 1/4", I will probably use the fence as is, but for actually thin things I do use the same concept (but not the $150 jig).

Online ChuckS

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2022, 10:07 AM »
As discussed in this thread, in terms of consistency, no methods -- manual or digitally aided -- can match a method that doesn't require the resetting of the fence. https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/woodpecker-thin-rip-guide/msg673259/#msg673259

Also shown in that thread is how to rip thin strips without moving the fence and without any enhanced risk of kickbacks.

Woodworkers are known to love to spend money on gadgets, jigs and tools. Often, they see "values" in their purchases that only they may see -- for one reason or another. As long as they enjoy spending their own money, it's already a good decision made.

Offline festal

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2022, 02:59 PM »
its either jigs or drugs lol


@4nthony i bet you if you squeeze the calipers hard enough you will get 4mm on the dot :)

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2022, 03:11 PM »
its either jigs or drugs lol


@4nthony i bet you if you squeeze the calipers hard enough you will get 4mm on the dot :)

But how do you get repeatable squeeze pressure? Need another instrument. :-)
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Offline 4nthony

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2022, 03:12 PM »
@4nthony i bet you if you squeeze the calipers hard enough you will get 4mm on the dot :)

I can only evacuate so much blood from my finger tips before they go numb [poke]

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Offline smorgasbord

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2022, 07:30 PM »
Consistency likely matters more than the absolute error.  I am sure that I will have more repeatability with the thin rip jig (or the cheap alternative that many of us use) than having to use a DRO and moving the fence each time.

The Woodpecker's Thin Rip Guide, and similar designs, requires that you move the fence each time.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2022, 09:10 PM »
Consistency likely matters more than the absolute error.  I am sure that I will have more repeatability with the thin rip jig (or the cheap alternative that many of us use) than having to use a DRO and moving the fence each time.

The Woodpecker's Thin Rip Guide, and similar designs, requires that you move the fence each time.

But the fixed distance for your thin rip is on the opposite side of the blade. The fence is not in the equation other than an edge parallel to the blade by which to guide the work.

The critical dimension that does not change it the distance from the rip guide to the outboard (with respect to the fence) side of the blade.
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Online ChuckS

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2022, 09:26 PM »
Snip.
The critical dimension that does not change it the distance from the rip guide to the outboard (with respect to the fence) side of the blade.

That's only part of the critical dimension. The other part is the distance between the offside edge of the workpiece and the fence, which might be different each time the fence is moved and reset as one taps the fence for fine adjustments. The fence is definitely in the equation.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 09:29 PM by ChuckS »

Offline smorgasbord

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2022, 04:44 PM »
OK, did a quick set of 3 thin rips using just my tablesaw with DRO and a Starrett caliper.
I have previously measured my blade's kerf as 3.22mm.
So to get 4mm thick pieces, I need to set my fence to 7.22mm. The Wixey only reads to .1mm, so 7.2mm.

I ripped 3 pieces and labeled them A, B, C. The results:
 A - 3.985mm
 B - 4.03mm
 C - 3.985mm



The procedure was:
1) Rip the piece to just take off the slightest bit. This sets the fence zero point for the next cut.
2) Zero the Wixey Incremental read-out (push a button).
3) Move the fence until the DRO reads 7.2mm
4) Rip a piece
5) Goto #2 and repeat

Now, there is some tap-tap-tap to get the fence to 7.2mm, but there is no "feel" involved. And yes, as someone upthread reported, I could move the fence the tiniest amount and not have the readout change. And certainly the Wixey is not a true precision instrument, but given not just wood movement but my ability to run slightly different sized pieces over the blade against the fence with the same pressure, etc. I'm super happy with a standard deviation variance of 0.004725mm

But, most importantly, I spent $150 just once and get to use the DRO for any tablesaw cut involving the rip fence. No need to buy a additional $200 flip-stop system for the tablesaw to make repeated cuts. No need to have fancy rigs with positioners for cutting tenons (like this
from Stumpy Nubs), just something that rides on the tablesaw fence, where the measurements will all be done on the DRO.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 04:48 PM by smorgasbord »

Offline smorgasbord

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2022, 05:19 PM »
Minor update: I emailed Wixey earlier today about their accuracy claims, as reported above:
Quote
Accuracy:
Decimal = +/- .002 in. per foot
Fraction = +/- 1/500 in. per foot
Metric = +/- .13 mm

The response from Barry (just hours later) is:
Quote
This is the first time someone has asked this in 15 years, which is hard to believe. I personally put these specs back together in 2006 and have no idea where that number came from. You are right. It should be 0.051mm/ft or 0.17mm/meter. We have not updated that page since it was first created.

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2022, 04:13 PM »
I needed to make a few strips at 6mm to fit into a Domino 6mm mortise. Using the Thin Rip, the first try resulted in 6.3". Ooched the guide in and the second try was 6.0mm.

Fun to use a very high quality tool. I know I could have gotten the same results using my old method, but this way was more fun and a lot faster.
Birdhunter

Online ChuckS

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Re: Woodpecker ThinRip Guide
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2022, 04:20 PM »
Snip.
Fun to use a very high quality tool. I know I could have gotten the same results using my old method, but this way was more fun and a lot faster.

This is no different from using a premium chisel to complete a cut that can equally be done with a plastic handled chisel from a big box store. Toys are toys, and we don't always need to justify them based on rational thinking or grounds.