Author Topic: What is your preferred countersink bit  (Read 7002 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1245
What is your preferred countersink bit
« on: December 04, 2018, 10:31 AM »
I'm wondering which countersink bit and shank types you guys are using.

On a drill press:

Handfree drill:

I currently use the

on the drill press and

handfree drill both from LV. I found both could give me a better result.

I am considering the Amana Tool


Thank you for sharing.
Mario

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1480
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2461
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2018, 11:46 AM »
I use the weldon style as I work with aluminum and plastic regularly, and the Snappy's for wood.

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 680
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2018, 11:50 AM »
I use the same as Oliver, the Festool ones with Centrotec.

They are really sharp and I have no complaints.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6366
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2018, 11:56 AM »
I use the festool countersink bit and a set of tapered bits with a plug cutter.

I forget who made mind right now (getting senile I guess).

At the time they were the only manufacturers of tapered bits but now there are many manufacturers. Heres example

https://www.amazon.com/Snappy-Brand-Quick-Change-Countersink-Proudly/dp/B000XXZME8/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1543942498&sr=8-21&keywords=tapered+drill+bits



Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 12:14 PM »
I really like these KEO Zero Flute countersinks as they're made from cobalt rather than HSS. They work well in wood, aluminum and plastic. No Centrotec shafts but Meh. [smile]

The KEO bits also last a lot longer than the Festool version, if you also have to use them ocasionally on aluminum. I buggered up a Festool version after deburring about 15 aluminum plates. The KEO are also cheaper than Festool.

The 8mm Festool version is $44.
The 5/16" KEO version is $17.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/45117488



Offline George Oliver

  • Posts: 43
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 12:16 PM »
I use these from Rockler, https://www.rockler.com/8-pro-tapered-countersink-bit, the best I've found locally. I'd like to compare them to the Centrotec though.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1245
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 12:48 PM »
That make 2 for Festool and 2 for Snappy.

@Cheese those Keo bits look really sexy  [wink] How are they performing on hard wood, any burnt?

Keep feeding me people  [big grin]
Mario

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 01:14 PM »

@Cheese those Keo bits look really sexy  [wink] How are they performing on hard wood, any burnt?


No Mario, because they're manufactured from cobalt, they can also be used gingerly on steel. They work especially well on hard maple. Just like a plane they remove very thin shavings.  [smile]  There are also 2 larger sizes available a 1" & a 1 1/4" diameter.

The other advantage is that they're available in 4 different angles, 60º, 82º, 90º and 100º if the need arrises.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1978
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 01:43 PM »
I have to ask a stupid question (well, more than one).  Is there a need to have an array of sizes or can you just get a small and large to cover the bases? These aren't meant to counterbore, just countersink, right?  Also, how do you sharpen these?
-Raj

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 215
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2018, 02:01 PM »
@Mario Turcot, the bits you mention from LV and from Amana look similar to the ones I have from Dimar, even use the same descriptions and images?
http://www.dimartooling.com/counter-sinking-plug-maker

Personally I prefer the bit with the metal depth stop because it clears the debris away from the hole better vs the countersink with the plastic depth stop. The downside to the metal stop is I find it leaves a mark regardless but that is more down to technique or lack thereof on my part. The plastic won't leave marks but doesn't have the lifespan of the metal stop and gets clogged up quickly.

Never used centrotec versions but would reckon they are better. I'm basing this on how my centrotec brad point bits perform, nothing comes close.
However a Festool countersink would cost me 3x the price of the Dimar version so I settled for less.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2018, 03:00 PM »
I have to ask a stupid question (well, more than one).  Is there a need to have an array of sizes or can you just get a small and large to cover the bases? These aren't meant to counterbore, just countersink, right?  Also, how do you sharpen these?

As a general rule of thumb, if the counter sink is rated at 1/2” diameter, this style will have a useful range from 1/4-1/2”. Same with the other sizes. A 3/8” diameter will be useful for 3/16-3/8”.

So taking the 1/2” counter sink, it can be used to counter sink #4 (.255 dia) through #10 (.411 dia) flat head screws.

These are meant to countersink, however I’ve counterbored holes, to act as a rain trough, in 60 cast aluminum outdoor lights and it’s still working fine. I’ve not yet sharpened it.

Here’s a photo after 60 counterbores and a couple hundred countersinks in aluminum. It still works fine in maple.



Offline rst

  • Posts: 2461
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2018, 06:55 PM »
I resharpen my weldons using a grinding point in a dremel (actually a Milwaukee 12v rotary tool).  I sharpen them from inside the shaving cavity.  My biggest is 1 1/2".























Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6366
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2018, 09:41 PM »
I have to ask a stupid question (well, more than one).  Is there a need to have an array of sizes or can you just get a small and large to cover the bases? These aren't meant to counterbore, just countersink, right?  Also, how do you sharpen these?


The ones I use with te tapered bit are used when I have to drill into hardwoods to prevent splitting ot when Im going to use plugs to hide the holes. Otherwise I use screws with nibs on the screws to allow them to self countersink. good for some woods and paint grade.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1978
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2018, 10:36 PM »
@jobsworth Thanks, I saw that post.  I actually have a set of Fuller bits like that, I’m just filing away the bits @Cheese mentioned for use with aluminum plate or when I’m boring holes in odd sizes (tapping threads in wood).  I might keep a 1/2” in the drawer for those instances.
-Raj

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2819
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2018, 10:44 PM »
Centrotec and Snappy for me.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2018, 12:41 AM »
I actually have a set of Fuller bits like that, I’m just filing away the bits @Cheese mentioned for use with aluminum plate or when I’m boring holes in odd sizes (tapping threads in wood).  I might keep a 1/2” in the drawer for those instances.

FWIW Raj, here are a couple of photos of a walnut countertop machined for use with a countersunk 1/4-20 FHCS. If you enlarge the photo, you'll notice an extremely smooth countersunk surface. That's the beauty of this style of countersink. Wood is removed one thin layer at a time. Nothing has been doctored, just a pilot hole was drilled, a KEO countersink was used and the flat head cap screws were installed. The countersinks are a thing of beauty...or as Mario says...Sexy!!!

I'd suggest keeping 2 different sized countersinks in your rucksack. That way you can run the gamut from a #4 FHCS thru a 5/16" FHCS. That's a pretty wide swath of common usage.  [smile]





Because of the wide range of materials I have to deal with, I try to use a single type of machine tool bit for all of the operations. If I had the luxury of only working on wood projects, I'd definitely keep and use one set of KEO countersink bits for only wood working projects  and keep another set for metal working.

Kind of like maintaining two sets of chisels....and who isn't familiar with that?   [big grin]
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 12:59 AM by Cheese »

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2461
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2018, 07:44 AM »
Another note on the weldon style counter sinks is that they can be bought with a pilot to insure the counter is concentric with the pilot hole.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2018, 10:23 AM »
Another note on the weldon style counter sinks is that they can be bought with a pilot to insure the countersink is concentric with the pilot hole.

Like these...

http://www.norsemandrill.com/Metal-Countersink-Drills.php



Offline TealaG

  • Posts: 115
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2018, 06:34 PM »
I tried many...my favorite is the Amana style with the stop. 

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1245
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2018, 07:08 PM »
I tried many...my favorite is the Amana style with the stop.

I just received today two from Amana Tools, next will be the Keo ones, especially the larger one. I already have a set like the snappy one.
Mario

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1271
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2018, 07:22 PM »
@Mario Turcot if you want sexy. Switch to socket head cap screws. Counterbore the hole and then chamfer the edge with a countersink.

Ron


Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1245
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2018, 07:25 PM »
@Mario Turcot if you want sexy. Switch to socket head cap screws. Counterbore the hole and then chamfer the edge with a countersink.

Ron

Wow that is super SEXY lol. The only problem I have is to find head cap screws. Homedepot sells a few in size and length but never the ones I need :( and are crazy expensive... like $1.80 for one screw  [mad]

What you made there is super nice  [big grin]
Mario


Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1271
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2018, 07:38 PM »
Heres a nice resource for getting specs on different screw sizes and types.

http://icrank.com/cgi-bin/pageman/pageout.cgi?path=/data/screw/screw_source.htm&t=2

Ron

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2099
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2018, 07:46 PM »
Grainger - There are physical stores located in Canada.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2018, 01:09 AM »
@Mario Turcot if you want sexy. Switch to socket head cap screws. Counterbore the hole and then chamfer the edge with a countersink.

Looks nice Ron...it looks like it was chamfered with a zero flute countersink because of the cleanliness of the details.  [smile]



So Mario if you like sexy...here's a box full of semi-sexy, a gaggle of grade 304 stainless 1/4-20 SHCS, BHCS & FHCS in various lengths. The black versions are black oxide coated for aesthetic reasons, but they're still grade 304 for corrosion concerns.



But when it comes to super sexy, these SPS Technologies bolts pull out all of the stops. They're manufactured from a special nickel cobalt stainless named MP35N. It's a limited production material run from SPS. The normal routine, is for the customer to notify SPS every year how many pounds of the material you want to reserve and then SPS will do that for you. Then when you direct them to, SPS will then manufacture for you what you want according to your specs. All material reservation must be done a minimum of 1 year in advance. Well that was 25 years ago, and with the new tariff policy  [eek]  it's probably further into the future than before, and also probably more expensive. These bolts were $18 each 25 years ago. 



This fastener is completely forged, rolled & ground, nothing has been turned. The threads are rolled/ground, the body is ground and the small fillet underneath the head is ground. This fastener is actually relatively cheap considering the number of precision machining operations involved.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 10:06 AM by Cheese »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4891
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2018, 09:26 AM »
@Cheese   SPS = Super Pricey Stainless?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2018, 10:19 AM »
@Cheese   SPS = Super Pricey Stainless?

You got that one right.  [big grin]

Just did a search and the current price for raw material is $80 per pound.

Also found out that it's now being used for dental and implant applications.


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4891
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2018, 11:53 AM »
HA!

Picture reminds me, back in the late ‘80’s I was hired to modify 2 dozen prank animated mouths for a play. A salesman’s briefcase was supposed to accidentally open and the mouths fall out and commence chattering, but stop in a certain number of seconds. I added a little Mitsubishi motor, crank arm, and battery and my partner added a custom board for time. Don’t think the play made to the big stage but it was a fun project.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2018, 12:18 PM »
A salesman’s briefcase was supposed to accidentally open and the mouths fall out and commence chattering, but stop in a certain number of seconds.

That's funny...chattering mouths & fluttering hearts must have been an 80's thing.  [tongue]  I remember around the same time that fluttering wind up hearts were being sold. You'd wind one up, hold onto it with both hands and then carefully place it in a specially sized box that prevented any heart movement until the box was opened at which time the heart would "beat".  HA! indeed!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1756
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2018, 08:33 AM »
MP35N sounds similar to Inconel (nickel-chromium) or Monel (nickel-copper) super stainless steels. All are expensive. Last job I used Monel on we were replacing all the bolting (over three hundred  1-1/4" x 9" HHCS with nuts and washers) in a large pump casing and it cost more than $120k for one set of bolts. The old bolting was Monel and still in decent shape after 40+ years in salt water but to be safe they wanted to replace it all to minimize the chance of any failures which could result in a catastrophic failure of the pump so $120k was seen as cheap insurance.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1978
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2019, 11:56 AM »
@Cheese I had to revive this thread to ask a question.  In the photo @rvieceli posted, the countersink was clean and even all the way around.  Is this only possible if you do this in a drill press or is there a technique to do this with a hand drill without resorting to the versions with the pilot that was posted? 

I picked up the Keo bit and tried it on a few test holes and quickly learned doing it by hand resulted in a 50/50 split between horribly uneven countersinks and slightly uneven countersinks.  Even if I'm batching out holes on a drill press, I'm drilling the pilot holes first, then switch to the countersink and go back to do the countersinks.  Unless I'm able to set up stop blocks and a fence to put the work piece precisely where it was when I drilled the pilot, odds are the countersink will be off slightly.  Any tips?
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2019, 12:29 PM »
In the photo @rvieceli posted, the countersink was clean and even all the way around.  Is this only possible if you do this in a drill press or is there a technique to do this with a hand drill without resorting to the versions with the pilot that was posted? 

I picked up the Keo bit and tried it on a few test holes and quickly learned doing it by hand resulted in a 50/50 split between horribly uneven countersinks and slightly uneven countersinks.  Even if I'm batching out holes on a drill press, I'm drilling the pilot holes first, then switch to the countersink and go back to do the countersinks.  Unless I'm able to set up stop blocks and a fence to put the work piece precisely where it was when I drilled the pilot, odds are the countersink will be off slightly.  Any tips?

Unfortunately, the drill press is the magic item in this situation.  [smile]

I try to use the drill press any time decorative countersinking needs to be done. It can be done by hand, and I'll show you an example, but it is tedious because it's tough to hold the drill exactly perpendicular to the surface. Anything other than 90º to the surface will get you a wonky looking countersink.

Another plus with the drill press is that if you set the depth limit, every countersink will be the same diameter, nice and uniform.

I'm a firm believer in using the Woodpeckers fence with flip stops on the drill press. That way you've nested every piece in the same location and you can remove and replace them without losing the center datum line. If you get into the habit of doing that, it becomes 2nd nature.

At times I thought I needed only 2 tool changes but then when I started the project, I realized I actually needed 3 or 4 tool changes. That's not a problem if you've used stop blocks or flip stops. Just make sure to mark each piece so you know which sides were registered against the stops. 

Here's a long chunk of walnut that I couldn't fit on the drill press. These countersinks were all done by hand. It was not fun but it's doable.


Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1271
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2019, 12:52 PM »
@RKA

raj like Cheese said you really need to use the drill press to get the best looking results. Has to be straight or it gets funky.

That particular piece in the shot  is a cylinder socket head cap screw in a chamfered coounterbored hole. It's a three step process.

Drill the through hole.

Counterbore the clearance for the screw head to depth.

Chamfer the edges with an 82 degree counter sink to depth.

Rinse and repeat  [big grin]

All these operations are with the work piece clamped and immobile. Only changing the tooling. Indexing the couterbore depth and the chamfer depth off the surface. I've got a physical depth stop on my press so I use gauge blocks to set the depth.

I'm usually working with irregularly shaped work pieces (live edge) so they don't always index accurately off a fence. I'm generally mating a piece to a metal base. So I'll use a transfer punch to mark the hole centers then drill the through hole. Flip the work piece over because the counterbore needs to be on the other side. I will then use the drill bit as an index pin to get the work piece in the correct alignment and then go through the steps above.

Ron

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 476
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2019, 12:53 PM »
I've been really pleased with Snappy's depth stop countersink (w/Centrotec shank I might add):

https://www.snappytools.com/product/43032-premium-rotating-depth-stop

The results are uniform/identical thanks to the depth stop.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 02:45 PM by TinyShop »
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n], Festool RAS 115 (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1978
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2019, 02:15 PM »
Thanks @Cheese and @rvieceli !  I didn't realize the issue was that I had skewed the bit from vertical causing the problem.  I thought the bit was walking off center somehow (it looked circular but off center).  I do have a fence with multiple flip stops, but at only 3ft long, sometimes you have to find another way.  The drill being used as an index is great...unless you don't have a keyless chuck, then you spend your afternoon tightening and loosening that chuck (Cheese, don't start on that Albrecht chuck, that's a different rabbit hole for a different day =) ).

The sad part is, all the work you put into those nicely countersunk screws is appreciated by only a few.  I can imagine going through that 3 step process on something only to have my wife ask why didn't I just use the nailer  [eek].  ---> Because I wanted it to look pretty!!!  (that's when I get the shoulder shrug)
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2019, 02:34 PM »
The sad part is, all the work you put into those nicely countersunk screws is appreciated by only a few.

The truth be told Raj...it's only appreciated by an audience of one.  [huh]  But it certainly enhances my skill sets so that's what I really enjoy...learning and doing better work. [smile]

There's no better justification for a keyless chuck than when needing multiple tool changes for producing a single feature. [poke]


Hey Ron @rvieceli , that's an interesting counterbore. Do you know who manufactures it?

« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 02:37 PM by Cheese »

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1271
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2019, 03:34 PM »
@Cheese It's just a generic 2 flute HSS solid pilot counterbore. Pretty sure I got it from Enco before MSC made them go away [sad]

it is a 1/4 inch pilot 13/32 counterbore. I think it was branded Qualtech when I bought it but in reality not even the packaging had a brand name on it.

I got that one, one for 5/16 shcs and 3/8 shcs. I just use it for wood would probably upgrade to something US made for metal.

I think Global Industrial and probably others import them now.

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/metalworking-tools/metalworking-counterbores/fillister-head-counterbores/hss-2-flute-counterbore-pilot-for-fillister-hd-screw-1-4-inch-pilot-dia-x-13-32-inch-d-3-5-8-inch-oal

Ron


Offline rst

  • Posts: 2461
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2019, 03:41 PM »
In regard to wandering countersinks, there are piloted versions available for the Weldon style sinks.  I know have at least three different sizes but so not remember where I bought them from.

Offline hdv

  • Posts: 201
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2019, 04:19 PM »
Just as some of the posters above I find it somewhat hard to keep the drill straight when I can't use a drill press. Here's a trick I learned from my mentor long ago that helps me. Put a straight rod in a vise. Check with a level that it is perfectly vertical. Then put the drill on the rod and tighten the chuck. After that glue a bullseye level on the backside of the body and make sure it is level. Let it dry like that. Once done you can use the level to make sure you are drilling vertically.

HTH

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2019, 05:28 PM »
It's just a generic 2 flute HSS solid pilot counterbore. Pretty sure I got it from Enco before MSC made them go away [sad]


My thoughts exactly. Although MSC has surprised me and has turned out to be better than I originally thought.  [smile]

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1978
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2019, 05:30 PM »
In regard to wandering countersinks, there are piloted versions available for the Weldon style sinks.  I know have at least three different sizes but so not remember where I bought them from.

Yeah, I saw that in your post on the first page of the thread.  Unfortunately I didn't fully appreciate it's utility until I bought and tried to use the Keo countersinks and now...I do!   [doh]
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2019, 05:44 PM »
I’ve never needed one or have actually used a piloted c’sk but with this discussion unfolding, that may indeed be the answer to maintaining a neat appearing c’sk using a hand drill.  [smile]

Would certainly be worth a try.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4891
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2019, 11:55 PM »
I’ve never needed one or have actually used a piloted c’sk but with this discussion unfolding, that may indeed be the answer to maintaining a neat appearing c’sk using a hand drill.  [smile]

Would certainly be worth a try.

The pilots are sized for machine screws, so too big for the pilot hole you’d drill for a wood screw.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2461
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2019, 04:06 PM »
The pilot does not need to be full depth of the screw, only enough to guide the initial countersink.  My smallest piloted sink only has 3/16" deep pilot.  I've never bothered to use mine on wood, mostly for metal work. 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4891
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2019, 04:59 PM »
It’s the diameter of the pilot on metal working piloted countersink bits that is too big. You’d have to drill a second larger diameter but shallow pilot hole to use the cs bit in wood.

My favorite is the Festool drilling and countersinking bit with integral depth stop. Next favorite is the Amana bit with depth stop but it’s a relative beast compared to the Festool.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7782
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2019, 12:21 AM »
It’s the diameter of the pilot on metal working piloted countersink bits that is too big. You’d have to drill a second larger diameter but shallow pilot hole to use the c'sk bit in wood.

Just thinking this whole hand held drill + countersink thing through, if you're up against the boards because you can't use a drill press and you don't own a drill stand, I still think this Weldon piloted zero degree c'sk may be the answer. It may not be as slick as a drill press but it could solve a problem for a lot of people.

Years ago I produced a cheat sheet to make my life easier and the "general" dimensions I've gathered over the years for both square drive and Torx drive wood screws are:
#8...max diameter .150"-.155"...so I'll use a 5/32" clearance drill
#9...max diameter .170"-.175"...so I'll use a 3/16" clearance drill
#10...max diameter .190"-.195"...so I'll use a 13/64" clearance drill
1/4"...max diameter .235"-.240"...so I'll use a 1/4" clearance drill

The Weldon CS8-1 piloted c'sk will produce up to a 33/64" diameter c'sk, so it's useable for any of the above mentioned sized screws. And while the pilot diameter is 1/4" diameter, the depth of the pilot is only 5/32".

A 1/4" diameter thru hole isn't that much larger than a .155" max diameter especially when you consider that the #8 FH screw will be centered by the countersink and not the thru diameter. Unless we're building wooden boats it really doesn't make much difference especially if it's your only option. [smile]

I'm ordering one to try it out.

Offline Sheik Maboutie

  • Posts: 7
Re: What is your preferred countersink bit
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2020, 08:13 AM »
Fuller countersinks all day long