Author Topic: Tiny dust collector  (Read 8012 times)

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Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Tiny dust collector
« on: May 19, 2022, 10:44 AM »
Thoughts on this little guy?

https://www.rockler.com/dust-right-750-cfm-mobile-dust-collector



Flow Rate: 750 CFM
Filter Type: Canister
HP: 1 HP
Weight (lbs): 88
Static Pressure: 5.98" of Water

I know lots of you people have big ole shops with central DC piped in yada yada. That's not me. I want something with a very small footprint. I don't really have a good wall mount spot for one of those wall units. This thing could be shoe horned into a dead space by my furnace when I'm not using it.

Uses would be my jobsite table saw which just makes a mess running off my CT-26, I want to get a smallish 6" jointer, and a bandsaw. Again, space is a premium so I can't fit most normal sized dust collectors. I would use some sort of cyclone separator to avoid having to empty the bag constantly. I'm assuming for single tool use, and keeping it near the tool with a short run of hose, it would perform its job well for the machines I have in mind.

Thanks,
Matt
Instagram @matts.garage

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6582
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2022, 10:57 AM »
We have this Grizzly for the Omga, works well. The specs are higher than what you’re looking at. Went with this because the larger ones were a pain to get connected.

Tom

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1357
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2022, 11:03 AM »
I thought Festool made one.   Is this not small and a dust collector:


Offline Peter Kelly

  • Posts: 125
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2022, 11:05 AM »
At $920 delivered+ tax I'm going with "vastly overpriced" for that thing.

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiNzM1NjU1OTYiLCJza3UiOiI5Nzg2OSIsImlzIjoiMTk5Ljk5IiwicHJvZHVjdF9p%0D%0AZCI6IjM4OTEifQ%3D%3D%0D%0A

https://wynnenv.com/products-page/woodworking-filters/35c222nano-cartridge-kit

Total should be around $500 but that somewhat depends on taxes and shipping to where you're located. The coupon for the HF collector ends May 22nd, after that it goes back up to $250. 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 11:10 AM by Peter Kelly »

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2022, 11:25 AM »
Mine (Dustfix) is similar to yours, HEPA, 1HP 750cfm & canvas bag. Motor is mounted at the base, not top heavy. Bought about 5 years ago for $480 Cdn.

Good for one machine a time (SawStop or Ridgid Planer in my case).

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1357
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2022, 11:38 AM »
I have a maze of hoses with valves to direct the suction.  It is a headache to use.  But when I consider moving stuff around in my cluttered shop, it still feels like the better answer. 

I sometimes let the bag fill too much and emptying it becomes a burden. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9786
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2022, 11:48 AM »
It doesn't appear to have that small of a foot print Matt. They quote a size of 30" x 16.5" x 54.5" and my full size Jet measures 32" x 20" x 72".  [tongue]

The Jet is quite a bit taller but the footprints are similar, and the Jet is 1100 cfm and only $180 more.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1357
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2022, 11:55 AM »
Wood Magazine has an article on this subject.  They seem to be leaning towards a high capacity shop vac + chip collector. 

https://www.woodmagazine.com/tool-reviews/dust-collection/small-scale-dust-collection


Also Fine Woodworking:

https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/shop-machines/dust-collection-for-the-small-shop

« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 11:57 AM by Packard »

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2022, 12:00 PM »
Looks like it might fit your needs and do the job for you Matt but I was shocked when I saw the price. I was expecting something more around 400 to 500.

How much are their wall mount units. You could probably build a cart for that and incorporate a separator to boot.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2022, 12:04 PM »
Yeah it does sound too expensive now after thinking about it.

Other requirements are it has to be on 110, no 220. I do have 20A outlets though on separate breakers so no issue with overloading.

The space I have in mind for storage is about 19" wide x 30" deep and somewhere around 70" tall. Definitely needs to have a canister filter at 2 or 1 microns.

Instagram @matts.garage

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2022, 12:11 PM »
That FWW article linked these two machines:

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-1-hp-wall-mount-dust-collector-with-canister-filter/g0785

https://www.burnstools.com/10-030cfm1-1hp-dust-collector-1mic-can

I bet the Rockler unit is made in the same factory as that portable General International. Very similar.

I might have another look to see if I could put the wall mount guy somewhere as well.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1357
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2022, 12:16 PM »
Can a wall-mount dust collector be "ceiling mounted?  Drop a very short "wall" from the ceiling over an area where it would not create a headroom issue.

For example the space over my radial arm saw is "dead space".  I think I could "drop" a wall there and have room to mount a wall mounted dust collector.  I do have an additional 8" between the rafters.  Emptying the bag might be more difficult though.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 12:20 PM by Packard »

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2022, 12:34 PM »
Can a wall-mount dust collector be "ceiling mounted?  Drop a very short "wall" from the ceiling over an area where it would not create a headroom issue.

For example the space over my radial arm saw is "dead space".  I think I could "drop" a wall there and have room to mount a wall mounted dust collector.  I do have an additional 8" between the rafters.  Emptying the bag might be more difficult though.

I don't see why not. I'm coming around to the idea of wall mounted. There's a dead space in the corner of my shop that's currently used for wall mount shelves of stuff I don't use often. I could take the shelves out and put one there and find a new home for that stuff. The 20A outlets are right there too. . .

Instagram @matts.garage

Offline 4nthony

  • Posts: 307
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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2022, 12:35 PM »
Thoughts on this little guy?

I'm pretty happy with mine. I upgraded from a Fein Turbo I and a Dustopper so anything would've been an improvement but this little 750 does a pretty good job with my table saw, band saw, and DIY downdraft box for the router lift. It meets my needs and the main selling point for me was how quiet it is and that I can move it out of the way if necessary. I'm short on space (my side of the garage is roughly 9'x18'). I've got neighbors in close proximity so I'm always looking to lessen the amount of noise I produce. I considered the 1250 wall-mount but it's pretty big and I don't have much wall-space left. Adding a Cyclone or other 2nd stage might cut down on the CFM but others have done it.

The price has jumped up in recent months. I first saw it priced around $650 last year. Then it shot up to 749-799 but came with a $100 gift card (when I bought it). Now, at $820, it's pricey for what it is, but it does come with the 1-micron canister which is an add-on for most of the other Dust Right collectors.



I forget where I found this picture (maybe a customer shot on Rockler?) but the DIY wall-mount is interesting:

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Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2022, 12:45 PM »
Unless access is easy, I wouldn't recommend mounting the dust collector (main body) to the ceiling or a high point.

To be effective, the HEPA filter needs to be cleaned after each use, and reaching for the handle to turn should not require a step or ladder. You don't want to find a reason or excuse not to clean the filter after every use; if you do, the filter will cake up with dust much sooner than you think.

Even though I clean the cartridge filter every time, I still find dust deep inside the filter when I dump the bag. I periodically use compressed air to clean inside the drum/filter, and tons of dust are found there. I need to spend at least 5 minutes to blow off the dust with compressed air. (Be careful not to damage the filter paper with high pressure air. Don't shoot air directly at a right angle to the filter inside or outside if you use a high pressure setting.)

 

About prices, for $800 US, I can easily get a HEPA 2HP, 1700 CFM, 1 micron dust collector, good for two machines running at the same time, in my city.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 03:29 PM by ChuckS »

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1363
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2022, 02:40 PM »
Definitely needs to have a canister filter at 2 or 1 microns.
One of the best health investments I have made is a Dylos Pro air quality meter. What I found was I was breathing bad air more than I realized. I have a Powermatic PM1200 air cleaner that slowly cleans the air will running much of the time I am working. When the air quality goes to heck I turn on my bigger dust collector that cleans the air in a few minutes and warms the garage significantly (Not so good on hot days as it can overcome the mini-split). The reason I quoted you is to say HEPA is 0.3 microns and what you should be using in a small work area. The tiny dust is what damages your lungs and hangs in the air for over 8 hours. Wynn filters are NOT HEPA @ 1 micron MERV 15, and after doing tons of research I went with an Oneida HEPA filter 0.3 microns and MERV 16 as I knew what I was getting, that is was certified, and of good quality. The bigger the filter the longer it will last and not plug. (Personally I am not a fan of beating up the filter with the thumper blades rotating inside the filter with the handle on top of the filter.)

Oh a manometer/magnehelic of some kind is great so you know when the filter needs to be cleaned. Could be some tubing with liquid and food coloring with some lines drawn next to it for referencing from. I use a Dwyer I picked up on Ebay for $20. Installing when the filter is new means you have a base reference. https://www.amazon.com/Dwyer-2005-Magnehelic-Differential-Pressure/dp/B00C1RA6UE

Although costly an Oneida SuperCell might fit the bill for space. I would guess it also works well as a shop heater. There are at least a few options available.

You didn't mention what type of table saw you are using, but improving dust collection is most likely possible. Getting a blade guard with overhead dust collection will improve it almost 40% right off the top! Bad pun? I had researched online how to improve a Bosch 4100 jobsite saw I used to use and putting a plate across the entire bottom was what seemed to work, but I sold the saw before modifying it.

Offline JINRO

  • Posts: 122
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2022, 02:45 PM »
I'm looking for one too.  I have one car garage shop and I'm thinking of 1.5hp, ~1200 cfm. Will it be enough for me to use it for Miter, Table, Planer and Jointer? Or do I have to go larger? I know 2hp jumps price pretty high...

Offline Dane

  • Posts: 439
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2022, 02:48 PM »
This one from Record that was featured on the Hooked on Wood YouTube channel seems pretty ideal:



https://www.thewoodturningstore.com/record-power-cgv336-4-us-camvac-55l-2000w-vacuum-with-4-inlet-no-hose/
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 02:50 PM by Dane »

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2022, 03:21 PM »
I'm looking for one too.  I have one car garage shop and I'm thinking of 1.5hp, ~1200 cfm. Will it be enough for me to use it for Miter, Table, Planer and Jointer? Or do I have to go larger? I know 2hp jumps price pretty high...

More than good enough if you're using one machine at a time, assuming the hose is not a long long run. Even a 1HP d.c. is good enough...but wearing a N95 mask is still recommended because the table saw (edge cuts or dado cuts) and the miter saw will still spill dust into the environment.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 03:23 PM by ChuckS »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2022, 03:36 PM »
This one from Record that was featured on the Hooked on Wood YouTube channel seems pretty ideal:
Snip

That unit, running on 220V, has only 229 CFM, and may be good smaller machines. I wouldn't use it for machines that produce lots of chips or plume of fine dust. Average size table saws, jointers, etc. probably need well over 300 CFM to do a proper job.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1357
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2022, 03:42 PM »
If you have a table saw, I would recommend that you place a piece of wire mesh (chicken wire about 1/2" spacing) on the intake duct to the dust collector.

I recall failing to turn off the dust collection and then changing the blade on my saw.  I dropped the shaft nut and it got sucked into the bowels of the dust collector. 

I spent about two hours taking apart my hoses, blast gates and fittings until I finally found the nut.  A piece of mesh would have allowed the dust to be extracted and would have saved the nut from being sucked in.

Even if I had the dust collector turned off, it would have required a half an hour to retrieve it and restore the dust collection. 

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2022, 03:42 PM »
After considering @ChuckS comment about having to clean the filter I'm back to considering floor models on casters. Something I can just put away when I'm not using a jointer which wouldn't be that often anyway. The planer I have doesn't require an extractor.

If the price were better I think that Rockler unit would still be high on my list. Maybe a sale will come along. They're opening a new Rockler store in my area next month, maybe they'll run a promotion and I could skip shipping costs that way.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2022, 03:57 PM »
Snip.
I recall failing to turn off the dust collection and then changing the blade on my saw.  I dropped the shaft nut and it got sucked into the bowels of the dust collector.  Snip.
[oops]

I always wonder a) if this tip works and b) if it is safe, so I never try it

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2021/02/04/workshop-tip-tired-of-dropping-your-arbor-nut-add-a-magnet


Offline festal

  • Posts: 297
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2022, 04:02 PM »
I was looking at the same one March of last year. It was on sale for $550 with 50 gift card. I missed the sale and forgot to order it. Now it’s $820. I did end up getting mini gorilla Oneida. No complaints besides the small bucket


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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1357
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2022, 04:04 PM »
I don't know if lthe magnet works.  I had the mesh in the house.  I cut it to fit the plastic funnel leading to the dust collector.  It has been there ever since.  I have not dropped the nut since I installed the mesh.  Funny how that works.

Offline JINRO

  • Posts: 122
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2022, 04:13 PM »
More than good enough if you're using one machine at a time, assuming the hose is not a long long run. Even a 1HP d.c. is good enough...but wearing a N95 mask is still recommended because the table saw (edge cuts or dado cuts) and the miter saw will still spill dust into the environment.

Thanks for the advise! Good to know 1 HP will be good enough for my shop.  Yeah, I use one tool at a time.  I'm thinking of this one then: https://beavertools.com/mdcbf1110c1m-laguna-b-flux-1hp-110v-canister-dust-collector.html

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1357
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2022, 04:20 PM »
Wen also makes a small, inexpensive unit.  It is sold on Amazon.com for about $140.00.  You will need accessories and they can add up.

Nice is to make a tray and you can sweep the shop dust right into it.  No bending over with a dust pan.

https://www.amazon.com/WEN-DC3401-Collector-12-Gallon-Optional/dp/B09Q7F9NC8/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2YSH1KHAR6AZ1&keywords=wen+dust+collectors+for+woodworking&qid=1652991611&sprefix=wen+dust+%2Caps%2C449&sr=8-2

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1363
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2022, 04:43 PM »
Nice is to make a tray and you can sweep the shop dust right into it.  No bending over with a dust pan.
Sweeping is the last thing I want to do with dust. A Festool CT36 is my preferred method for floor cleanup...except for lots of metal fragments, which get scooped. An air quality meter would show a significant increase in airborne dust post sweeping.

Offline Dane

  • Posts: 439
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2022, 05:53 PM »
This one from Record that was featured on the Hooked on Wood YouTube channel seems pretty ideal:
Snip

That unit, running on 220V, has only 229 CFM, and may be good smaller machines. I wouldn't use it for machines that produce lots of chips or plume of fine dust. Average size table saws, jointers, etc. probably need well over 300 CFM to do a proper job.

Not sure that's correct- take a look at some of the youtube reviews and online reviews.  Universally positive on the record machines for table saws, lathes and jointers in a small shop.  Inflated CFM numbers vs applied effectiveness can be different.

Offline festal

  • Posts: 297
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2022, 06:00 PM »
This one from Record that was featured on the Hooked on Wood YouTube channel seems pretty ideal:
Snip

That unit, running on 220V, has only 229 CFM, and may be good smaller machines. I wouldn't use it for machines that produce lots of chips or plume of fine dust. Average size table saws, jointers, etc. probably need well over 300 CFM to do a proper job.

Not sure that's correct- take a look at some of the youtube reviews and online reviews.  Universally positive on the record machines for table saws, lathes and jointers in a small shop.  Inflated CFM numbers vs applied effectiveness can be different.

Also saw the reviews on these.  Interesting units.  Similar to Supercell

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2022, 06:21 PM »
Snip.
Not sure that's correct-
Snip.

The CFM given on the product page could be wrong, but until it is corrected, that's what I went by.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2022, 06:28 PM »

Snip.
Also saw the reviews on these.  Interesting units.  Similar to Supercell

Snip.

No idea about the Record or the Supercell. If i go by the spec., I know 300 cfm or higher is what an average size machine needs:

https://www.oneida-air.com/blog/4-things-every-good-dust-collector-needs

« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 06:31 PM by ChuckS »

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2022, 07:13 PM »
If you're not afraid of used, I would scour FB Marketplace and CraigsList for a Cincinnati Fan or late 80s to early 90s Delta two-stage barrel collector. Cincy Fan made the Delta. I have one of each. On the Cincy Fan, I replaced the bag filter with a Donaldson diesel rig air filter. I eventually will do the same for the Delta. They're quiet, reasonably powerful, low profile, easy to empty and come with very capable casters. I honestly don't know why the design went out of favor. I paid $50 for the Delta and $75 for the Cincy Fan. Tack on another 50ish for the Donaldson filter. I wouldn't trade them for any of the $600-$800 single stage collectors mentioned earlier.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2022, 08:10 PM »
I'd second Jeff's second-hand suggestion with one rider if the target is a plain, single dust collector: Find one that can be outfitted with a replacement HEPA filter.

We have a store here selling HEPA drum filters for those who want to upgrade from their filter bags. The catch is not every dust collector can be upgraded like that.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2022, 09:08 PM »
I'm looking for one too.  I have one car garage shop and I'm thinking of 1.5hp, ~1200 cfm. Will it be enough for me to use it for Miter, Table, Planer and Jointer? Or do I have to go larger? I know 2hp jumps price pretty high...

Forget the HP rating and buy the unit that has the biggest impeller. The HP rating means zip unfortunately as a 2 or 3HP on a 12" impeller will flow the same amount of air as long as the motor is at full speed.

All DE's with bags either plastic or cloth leak dust, I have never seen one that doesn't.

Never believe the advertised CFM numbers, they are all BS apart from a few noticeable exceptions such as Oneida or Clearvue and the latter does not quote flow numbers or didn't but I have not checked lately

If all you want is to keep the floor clean and pick up the big stuff just about any high volume DE will do that job and so will a broom but it won't collect the fine sub .5 and under particles that permanently stay in you lungs and cause long term health issues.

Vacuum cleaners do not capture the fine dust and the cheapies smash what they do collect into smaller particles and they all leak.

To collect the fine dust a high volume DE using 4+ inch ducts is required

Cyclones of any size are inefficient and reduce the airflow because that is how they work

The retail industry has not got a clue about dust extraction apart from the few companies such as Oneida and Clearvue etc.

Flexible hose kills air flow in a major way

Buy a dust monitor and use it to minimise the airborne dust, information is knowledge

Depressing isn't it, people think they are doing the right thing and they are literally being given the wrong information which then has long term health effects that can't be reversed. You are better off buying a powered respirator and forgetting tiny DE's, no floor space issues, no hoses etc.




Offline twistsol1

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2022, 09:20 PM »
Grizzly has one with nearly identical specs for $569

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-1-hp-canister-dust-collector/g0583z
A shop full of tools and no talent

Offline Cheese

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2022, 09:39 PM »
On the Cincy Fan, I replaced the bag filter with a Donaldson diesel rig air filter. I eventually will do the same for the Delta.

Wow Donaldson...haven't heard about them in years...they were the original go-to filter people and they produced the best of the best industrial filters...also situated in the Twin Cities.  [smile]

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2022, 09:55 PM »
Cheese, at the shop we have several different brands of pleated filter dust collectors, all of which leak dust. The Donaldson (so far) does not. It was less expensive than any of the after-market conversions for dust collection and it took me a half a day and $20 worth of parts to figure out how to put it together. I'm happy with it and will do exactly the same thing for my other barrel collector. I used to roll one dust collector from machine to machine. Now I have one of the barrels permanently on my table saw, one on my radial arm saw and I only have to roll the single-stage around to the other stuff.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2022, 10:34 PM »
Cheese, at the shop we have several different brands of pleated filter dust collectors, all of which leak dust. The Donaldson (so far) does not. It was less expensive than any of the after-market conversions for dust collection and it took me a half a day and $20 worth of parts to figure out how to put it together. I'm happy with it and will do exactly the same thing for my other barrel collector. I used to roll one dust collector from machine to machine. Now I have one of the barrels permanently on my table saw, one on my radial arm saw and I only have to roll the single-stage around to the other stuff.

Hey Jeff I'm interested in this barrel stuff...any photos? Donaldson does have the credentials...they are good at what they do.  [big grin]

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2022, 06:41 AM »
I'll snap a few tonight. Cincinnati Fan still makes the same design. Amazing that they haven't done anything about increasing their filter efficiency. Here's a link to a PDF of their brochure. https://www.cincinnatifan.com/catalogs/DustCollectors108-sls.pdf

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2022, 07:47 AM »
Now I'm back looking at the wall mount setups. After watching this video:



It doesn't really take up a ton of space like I thought it would. I know they offer a stronger motor rated for 1250 cfm now and I'd go that route. Whether or not it actually reaches those #'s I doubt it, but if I made it two stage then more is better, right? In the video he used the 650 cfm version.

That Oneida Supercell he upgraded to sure does look nice too. Spendy, but nice.



His videos are clearly sponsored even though he doesn't say it. They come off like ads. But they're still well presented.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline festal

  • Posts: 297
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2022, 08:02 AM »
Now I'm back looking at the wall mount setups. After watching this video:



It doesn't really take up a ton of space like I thought it would. I know they offer a stronger motor rated for 1250 cfm now and I'd go that route. Whether or not it actually reaches those #'s I doubt it, but if I made it two stage then more is better, right? In the video he used the 650 cfm version.

That Oneida Supercell he upgraded to sure does look nice too. Spendy, but nice.



His videos are clearly sponsored even though he doesn't say it. They come off like ads. But they're still well presented.

Main issue with supercell is the cost and noise.  Its got 3 shop vac motors inside so supercell is noiser then regular ones.  If you wear hearing protection you probably don't care.  Also you have to use special flexible hose or 4" ducting with these

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2022, 08:34 AM »
The question can be asked is would you prefer to put a set of ear defenders on or have dusted lungs. Speak to any Oncologist and see what he recommends, your health depends on how much you invest in it so what is yours worth?

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2022, 09:09 AM »
How important is having HEPA filtration vs the 1 or 2 micron canisters most machines offer for tools like jointer, bandsaw, and table saw? That's the other consideration I'm looking into. I'll pay more to get better filtration if it's an option.

Noise is something I'd have to think about since I'm in the house. I haven't gotten any complaints so far but it sounds like some of these bigger motor units don't like to be cycled, i.e. turn them on and leave them on until you're done more or less. I don't have 220V but it would be easy enough for me to add it myself.

Duct work is a non starter. Whatever I go with will use a flex hose with a short distance to the tools.

Edit: This one is appealing for the above reasons https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-1-1-2-hp-wall-mount-dust-collector-with-hepa-filter/g0944hep It may have been mentioned earlier in the thread, sorry if I missed it.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 09:22 AM by DynaGlide »
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1357
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2022, 10:06 AM »
If I were ambitious, I would change my  ducts to run between the rafters and I would use the same galvanzied ducts that I used for my dryer vent.  Only using the flexible hose for drops from the ceiling. 

Use rubber isolation pads when mounting the unit and install rockwool  sound insulation immediately above the vacuum.  It will go a long way towards mitigating the noise. 

I suspect that most of the "noise" is sympathetic vibrations that the subfloor picks up.  So the rubber isolation pads are the first thing I would try.  The rubber for sound isolation has a very specific durometer so it is best to buy the ones specified for that use.

Grainger's offerings are cheap enough that it does not pay to screw around with ersatz vibration pads.  Just a couple of dollars each.  If there is a Grainger store near you, then no shipping charges.

https://www.grainger.com/search/hardware/mounts-and-vibration-control/cylindrical-vibration-isolators?tv_optin=true&searchQuery=vibration+isolators&searchBar=true&suggestConfigId=6

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1363
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2022, 12:55 PM »
There are always a ton of Jet bag type dust collectors on Craiglist in my area for usually more than they are worth, but sometimes cheap. Buying something like a 2HP and adding an Oneida Dust Deputy with a larger HEPA filter would do what you need. Lots of folks remove the cart and then wall mount them (Look for Wynn filter "upgrade" vids, just don't buy a Wynnn, or so I recommend). There are more than a few Youtube vids of folks doing so. Anything can be modified to fit anywhere, with plenum boxes not hard to make. You are a woodworker right? ;)

You have a lot of options. I would keep an eye on Ebay. Took me a few months, but eventually I found a brand new 3HP Jet Cyclone without filter for a smokin' deal and grabbed it. Wouldn't have wanted the filter anyhow as I upgraded to a HEPA filter. So for 1/3 the price of new I got a functioning dust collector. Find your own deal :)

This two are 3 phase units but that would give speed adjust-ability using a VFD which are around $120 for a Chinese unit. I would want to know shipping ahead of time, and they do have a "Make Offer" button. Bent housings are common on about everything sheet metal that is shipped. Missing filter is a good thing. With a cyclone attached one would work pretty well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353995791680?hash=item526bcb1d40:g:NoIAAOSwauZiTdJ3
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133927472813?epid=1802028260&hash=item1f2eb30ead:g:bWgAAOSw2gVhaGZy

Oh and if sending via freight it is always cheaper to pickup at the freight yard.

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2022, 01:19 PM »
Beware of analysis paralysis.

I have never been to a shop -- hobbyist, school, cabinetmaking or even store that sells dust collectors -- that is dust-free, no matter what dust collection system is used or how big the HP is.

I'd say, just get a reasonable HEPA dust collector (mobile or wall-mounted) that fits your space, budget and machines, and start enjoying its protection. If it's wall-mounted, make sure it can be removed when you want to blow its dust off with compressed air.

Alone the dust collector probably isn't enough, so consider it as your first layer of protection (i.e. dust extraction at source). Then build on it with others such as a filtration system. Focus your attention on the "worst" and most used machines (for me, it's the table saw and miter saw). The N95 mask is my last line of defence, used in long sawing sessions.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 01:48 PM by ChuckS »

Offline John Russell

  • Posts: 186
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2022, 08:36 PM »
I'm working through this issue, what dust collector is good enough?  I'm convinced that a HEPA filter is worthwhile and I'm willing to pay for that.  My space does not lend itself to duct work so connecting the collector to each machine is the default. Noise is also an issue since my basement shop does not have good sound insulation and it is right above the living room.  At first I thought the Oneida Mini Gorilla was my default choice, but it is pricey and maybe I'm paying more than necessary.  I have no interest in the modifications of Harbor Freight or other dust collectors so that is part of the appeal of something like the mini gorilla. I'll have to check out the details on the Grizzly linked above as well as the Cincinnatii machines...

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2022, 08:37 PM »
Beware of analysis paralysis.

I have never been to a shop -- hobbyist, school, cabinetmaking or even store that sells dust collectors -- that is dust-free, no matter what dust collection system is used or how big the HP is.

I can understand that because without good advice most WW's fail on the purchase and installation through lack of education. In the end it comes down to how much are you prepared to invest in both money, work & time to protect your health. If you don't value your health then buying a cheap minimal DE is all you require and buying one that does the job properly is a total waste of time and money and you could use that money to buy a machine that produces more dust.
A bit like buying a crash helmet, more money = better protection.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2022, 08:47 PM »
I'm working through this issue, what dust collector is good enough?  I'm convinced that a HEPA filter is worthwhile and I'm willing to pay for that.

If you live in a mild climate like me all installations I have had anything to do with can be vented to atmosphere except for some specialty installations mostly in rented premises. Obviously this does not apply where air requires conditioning then you need a HEPA filter. The other end of the problem is how much dust will it pick up and small impellers don't have the flow to pick up much so must be run at full speed which is noisy. A bigger impeller on a 3 phase machine will actually be quieter because using a VFD will allow it to be run at slower speeds.

Offline Joelm

  • Posts: 158
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2022, 09:34 PM »
This past winter I upgraded from a Rockler 1250 wall mounted unit to the Oneida Supercell. It is much more compact than my old set up at just under 2'X2'. The noise IS loud, but once I turn on my table saw or planer it doesn't make a difference.
It does have a hepa filter that is easily cleaned too which is nice.
I ran some tests with my old dust collector and was getting about 700CFM after a 5' length of 6" flex hose.  I tried to test the CFM on my Supercell but it stopped being able to track it after a few seconds. The suction was so strong that it broke the anemometers fan blades and sent them flying off into my workshop. I'm glad I had glasses on or that could have been bad.
I believe you can get a mobility kit for the Supercell too if you don't want to mount to the wall.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2022, 11:02 PM »
This shop was huge but also had a mega dust collection system (enclosed for noise reduction). Often, two SawStop ICS could be running at the same time plus jointers etc. But dust everywhere too. By my unscientific assessment after spending two days there, my shop (1 HP dc plus CT and shop vacs and 2x air filtration systems) is better. [tongue]



« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 11:12 PM by ChuckS »

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2022, 07:09 AM »
How high are the ceilings in that shop? Looks to be all of 20 feet. There's a lot of work expended in sucking all those chips and sawdust up 16 feet before you even start moving it horizontally toward the DC.

Your chart has a 4" duct and 400 CFM for a TS up to 16" with I'm guessing a 1/8" thick blade but a 5" duct and 600 CFM for a BS with a blade normally about a third the thickness of a TS blade. Seems backward to me.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2022, 07:12 AM by Bob D. »
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2022, 08:37 AM »
This past winter I upgraded from a Rockler 1250 wall mounted unit to the Oneida Supercell. It is much more compact than my old set up at just under 2'X2'. The noise IS loud, but once I turn on my table saw or planer it doesn't make a difference.
It does have a hepa filter that is easily cleaned too which is nice.
I ran some tests with my old dust collector and was getting about 700CFM after a 5' length of 6" flex hose.  I tried to test the CFM on my Supercell but it stopped being able to track it after a few seconds. The suction was so strong that it broke the anemometers fan blades and sent them flying off into my workshop. I'm glad I had glasses on or that could have been bad.
I believe you can get a mobility kit for the Supercell too if you don't want to mount to the wall.

@Joelm Did you find the old setup lacking in suction? 700cfm seems plenty.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9786
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2022, 09:07 AM »
Thanks for posting that chart @ChuckS, it's interesting. Two things I noticed that surprised me was the belt sander needing a 5" duct and the band saw needing a 5" duct.

I have a Jet JSG-6DC which is a 6" belt with a 12" disc. Both factory dust ports are 4" diameter.

And on the really stupid side is that before I made the 4" diameter dust collection housing for the Delta bandsaw, it came with a factory connection of 1.5".  [jawdrop]

Offline Joelm

  • Posts: 158
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2022, 09:50 AM »
@Joelm Did you find the old setup lacking in suction? 700cfm seems plenty.

700CFM was from the end of my 6" flex hose tied directly to the inlet. From there I tied into a super dust deputy then 4" flex hose to my router table. At the router table the CFM dropped to only 300CFM. I used a wye to run a 5" hose to my bandsaw and with the 5" hose the CFM was better at 500CFM.

However I measured the footprint of my old set up and it took up 47"X30" and was almost 9' high.

Now with the SuperCell my bandsaw gets 550CFM and my router table is getting 500CFM. Like I also mentioned it only takes up 23"X23" of space now too.


Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2022, 09:54 AM »
Did you find the old setup lacking in suction? 700cfm seems plenty.

700CFM is nowhere near enough to collect the fine dust. let me try and explain why that is the case. The depression in the duct is obviously higher when more air is flowing into the duct and the entry is usually compromised if the duct entry is not radiused using a bell mouth attached to the duct. As the air flow rises the bubble of depression in front of the duct entry increases in area and it is only in this area that effective and immediate capture of the dust takes place. A 6" duct flowing 1000cfm will obviously have a bigger capture area than a 4" duct flowing 600CFM so you begin to see that it is vital to use the biggest duct with a very strong air flow. Any size reduction to any part of that duct compromises the air flow and reduces the flow to what the smallest part of the duct can flow. If a 6" duct were to be run to a machine and the port on the machine is 4" then you just wasted a whole heap of money using 6" because the flow is restricted by the 4" port on the machine. We try and encourage anyone installing a system to open up the ports to 6" where possible as anything else is a compromise. My recipe for good DE is 6" duct/15" impeller/5hp/60hz/3 phase/VFD. That gives  excellent results and two machines can be running at once. A 16" impeller will enable the DE to be run at slower speeds with less noise and at the slower speed is equal to a 15" @ 60hz/3450 RPM.

I recommend anyone who wants to learn more go to the Australian WW forum and study the DE findings on that site as it is the best source of information on the planet bar none. There are several sticky folders with solid proven data that can't be found anywhere else.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2022, 10:05 AM »
700CFM was from the end of my 6" flex hose tied directly to the inlet. From there I tied into a super dust deputy then 4" flex hose to my router table.

Measuring duct flow correctly requires specialty equipment and an anemometer won't do it. Duct flow is not laminar across a duct and at the entry is so turbulent it can't be measured at all. Pitot tubes, hot wire and a manometer are the minimum instruments required to get anywhere near close. I am to trying to criticise here just provide information it has taken me many years to gain so I can pass it on to others. We run education courses for the simple reason that there are limited sources for good solid information and education. While I am on the band wagon 99% of DE online is wrong and should be ignored especially on YT. If anyone wants me to retire from providing information on this forum please let me know and I won't contribute on the subject.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9786
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2022, 10:25 AM »
I recommend anyone who wants to learn more go to the Australian WW forum and study the DE findings on that site as it is the best source of information on the planet bar none. There are several sticky folders with solid proven data that can't be found anywhere else.

Can you provide a link? I'm having a difficult time trying to locate the forum. Thanks.

Offline Joelm

  • Posts: 158
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2022, 11:32 AM »
Measuring duct flow correctly requires specialty equipment and an anemometer won't do it. Duct flow is not laminar across a duct and at the entry is so turbulent it can't be measured at all. Pitot tubes, hot wire and a manometer are the minimum instruments required to get anywhere near close. I am to trying to criticise here just provide information it has taken me many years to gain so I can pass it on to others. We run education courses for the simple reason that there are limited sources for good solid information and education. While I am on the band wagon 99% of DE online is wrong and should be ignored especially on YT. If anyone wants me to retire from providing information on this forum please let me know and I won't contribute on the subject.

I for one am happy for any additional information you can provide. It is hard to find much info on DE online.

I had a feeling that I was either measuring wrong on that my anemometer was not the right tool to test this correctly. It did give me a rough idea on relative values so I left it at that (especially after I broke it).

I assume that Oneida does a decent job of steering clients to something that is useful. In my case I was in contact with them for a month and ended up having them design my system for me.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2022, 11:39 AM »
@Joelm the space the wall mount units take up when you add the cyclone is substantial. I don't understand how anyone can say they save space when you add a canister the thing runs floor to ceiling on a 1.5HP unit.

Can you post a picture of the Supercell mounted in that same area for comparison?
Instagram @matts.garage

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Offline Peter Kelly

  • Posts: 125
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2022, 11:59 AM »
I put this together for under $1,000 and aside from replacing the bearings in the HF blower motor it's worked out pretty well. Doesn't take up a huge amount of floor space either. Blower was upgraded with the 12 in Rikon impeller.


Offline Joelm

  • Posts: 158
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2022, 12:03 PM »
@Joelm the space the wall mount units take up when you add the cyclone is substantial. I don't understand how anyone can say they save space when you add a canister the thing runs floor to ceiling on a 1.5HP unit.

Can you post a picture of the Supercell mounted in that same area for comparison?

I wanted to move the dust collector next to the garage door. The Rockler wouldn't fit but the SuperCell is nice and compact.
344690-0

I have a 4" run of hard pipe along the wall, then goes up over the ceiling and back down the other side to my router table and Kapex.
344692-1

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2022, 12:14 PM »
How high are the ceilings in that shop? Looks to be all of 20 feet. There's a lot of work expended in sucking all those chips and sawdust up 16 feet before you even start moving it horizontally toward the DC.

Your chart has a 4" duct and 400 CFM for a TS up to 16" with I'm guessing a 1/8" thick blade but a 5" duct and 600 CFM for a BS with a blade normally about a third the thickness of a TS blade. Seems backward to me.

Bob,

The chart comes from here; link given to me when I toured an industrial plant, and asked about its dust collection system:

https://astcanada.ca/industries-applications/woodworking/

The shop ceiling in the earlier photo is indeed very high, but its dust collection system was designed and built based on our provincial safety standards. According to the shop manager, the sound-proof room that houses the system didn't cost little in order to meet the audio requirements.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2022, 12:18 PM »
Snip.

I wanted to move the dust collector next to the garage door. The Rockler wouldn't fit but the SuperCell is nice and compact.
Snip.

Joel,

You sure you didn't copy and paste your tool wall photos from a woodworking store showroom?! [tongue]


Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2022, 12:25 PM »
Thanks for posting that chart @ChuckS, it's interesting. Two things I noticed that surprised me was the belt sander needing a 5" duct and the band saw needing a 5" duct.

I have a Jet JSG-6DC which is a 6" belt with a 12" disc. Both factory dust ports are 4" diameter.

And on the really stupid side is that before I made the 4" diameter dust collection housing for the Delta bandsaw, it came with a factory connection of 1.5".  [jawdrop]
Mine is also a 4" port on the bandsaw. But bandsaw dust collection, like the one for miter saw, is a tough spot. Rob Cosman came up with this idea:



For the record, Cosman's shop is VERY dusty, and I wouldn't want to work in that kind of shop without wearing a N95 mask all day long!

Offline 4nthony

  • Posts: 307
    • Slack for Recon Tools
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2022, 01:39 PM »
Can you provide a link? I'm having a difficult time trying to locate the forum. Thanks.

I think this is the site:

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200
Recon Tool Notifications

Anthony

"The best way to get a correct answer on the internet is to post an obviously wrong answer and wait for someone to correct you." - Kevin Kelly

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2022, 05:58 PM »
I recommend anyone who wants to learn more go to the Australian WW forum and study the DE findings on that site as it is the best source of information on the planet bar none. There are several sticky folders with solid proven data that can't be found anywhere else.

Can you provide a link? I'm having a difficult time trying to locate the forum. Thanks.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/    Main forum

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200   Dust Extraction sub forum

There are several sticky folders at the top of the sub forum page.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2022, 06:11 PM »
Cosman reckoned he had the dust problems solved when he moved pnto his new premises but apparently not.

Bandsaws are a real issue for a couple of reasons. Most of them have only one port on the cabinet and an air entry has to be created to allow make up air to enter the cabinet. If the entry for air does not exist then air flow stops dead so the dust piles up in the cabinet. There are some quite elaborate systems shown in the Oz forum but most go with a pick up on top of the table, modify the cabinet for air entry and hook up a line to the cabinet port. 2 x 4" lines equal 1 x 6" line or near enough. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9786
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2022, 08:17 PM »
Most of them have only one port on the cabinet and an air entry has to be created to allow make up air to enter the cabinet. If the entry for air does not exist then air flow stops dead so the dust piles up in the cabinet.

You're right, just like an HVAC system, the volume of exhaust air is regulated by the volume of supply air. That's the reason I ventilated the zero clearance inserts.

From the top.




From the bottom.




This also made a huge difference in the amount of sawdust that was removed on a resawn board. Before this mod, when you separated the 2 boards sawdust literally poured out of the kerf between them.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2022, 04:44 AM »
Most of them have only one port on the cabinet and an air entry has to be created to allow make up air to enter the cabinet. If the entry for air does not exist then air flow stops dead so the dust piles up in the cabinet.

You're right, just like an HVAC system, the volume of exhaust air is regulated by the volume of supply air. That's the reason I ventilated the zero clearance inserts.

From the top.

(Attachment Link)


From the bottom.

(Attachment Link)


This also made a huge difference in the amount of sawdust that was removed on a resawn board. Before this mod, when you separated the 2 boards sawdust literally poured out of the kerf between them.

But when the ventilated plate is covered it is blocked during cutting and does not flow air.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #71 on: May 22, 2022, 09:11 AM »
The blockage also happens on the table saw with a ZCI, and that's why above-the-table dust collection helps in that kind of cut. My SawStop blade guard (attached to a shop vac for max effectiveness) really shines in that...like a dust-free operation.

On the other hand, the ZCI on my Kapex does not impede dust collection.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9786
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #72 on: May 22, 2022, 09:27 AM »
But when the ventilated plate is covered it is blocked during cutting and does not flow air.

Well yes & no...there's still enough air flow because of the huge reduction of sawdust that was trapped when resawing boards. I wish I had taken before & after pictures but the reduction of trapped sawdust was 5x to 10x...it was incredible. I also noticed the resawn boards and the saw blade were both cooler because the blade no longer had to resaw the sawdust.

Here's a good example of the air flow that still gets through, the 1st photo is immediately after sawing and the 2nd photo is simply opening the door. Notice the lack of sawdust buildup on the inside and on the lower wheel so there is significant air movement.




Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #73 on: May 22, 2022, 09:44 AM »
Cheese,
My throat disc has a wide gap and dust in the cabinet never is an issue because the 4"port takes care of it. It's the dust that I see above the table that bothers me.

My old solution was to place a box fan (with a filter) on the exit end, but it wouldn't work when sawing a long stock.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 09:48 AM by ChuckS »

Offline Joelm

  • Posts: 158
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #74 on: May 22, 2022, 10:11 AM »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5515
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2022, 10:14 AM »
Mini me’s comment on Cheese’s zero clearance insert makes sense but if it works anyway…

Still, it might be even better to add a hole in the zci kerf slot behind the blade.

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2022, 06:58 PM »
Cheese (and others interested), here's my Cincy Fan dust collector with Donaldson canister filter.


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5515
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2022, 07:28 PM »
@jeffinsgf that looks so much like my old Delta portable collector. So Cincy Fan made them for Delta?

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2022, 09:49 PM »
Sure looks like it. I have one of the Delta ones, too. They're identical right down to the mold lines in the drum top and the wording of the warning labels.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 09:57 PM by jeffinsgf »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9786
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2022, 09:44 AM »
Hey Jeff, thanks for posting the photo and the Cincy sales brochure. That photo really takes me back over 60+ years. When I was growing up my neighbor's father was a professional house builder and in his home shop he had one of those units. It sat on top of a fiber barrel that was the color of MDF. It was labeled as a Delta unit and this was in the late 60's or early 70's so they've been around awhile.

Also, the Cincy brochure confirmed the CFM values that Chuck posted earlier. Of further interest, Chuck's latest post also mentions Donaldson for their filter expertise.

The 1st .pdf is from the Cincy brochure and the 2nd photo is the latest from Chuck...notice the red underlined sentence near the bottom.  [smile]

* Dust Collection CFM 1.pdf (2032.15 kB - downloaded 36 times.)


Offline kimbuaslı

  • Posts: 6
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2022, 09:53 AM »
Hey Jeff, thanks for posting the photo and the Cincy sales brochure. That photo really takes me back over 60+ years. When I was growing up my neighbor's father was a professional house builder and in his home shop he had one of those units. It sat on top of a fiber barrel that was the color of MDF. It was labeled as a Delta unit and this was in the late 60's or early 70's so they've been around awhile.

Also, the Cincy brochure confirmed the CFM values that Chuck posted earlier. Of further interest, Chuck's latest post also mentions Donaldson for their filter expertise.

The 1st .pdf is from the Cincy brochure and the 2nd photo is the latest from Chuck...notice the red underlined sentence near the bottom.   [smile]

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
It looks very nice

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2022, 08:00 PM »
Hey Jeff, thanks for posting the photo and the Cincy sales brochure. That photo really takes me back over 60+ years. When I was growing up my neighbor's father was a professional house builder and in his home shop he had one of those units. It sat on top of a fiber barrel that was the color of MDF. It was labeled as a Delta unit and this was in the late 60's or early 70's so they've been around awhile.

Also, the Cincy brochure confirmed the CFM values that Chuck posted earlier. Of further interest, Chuck's latest post also mentions Donaldson for their filter expertise.

The 1st .pdf is from the Cincy brochure and the 2nd photo is the latest from Chuck...notice the red underlined sentence near the bottom.  [smile]

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

An interesting table and it illustrates my point about the evolution of thinking that has taken place in recent years and why it has taken place. I am guessing and yes it is a guess that in days gone by the prime aim of dust collection was to keep the work place clean from heavy debris and not much more but our understanding has moved on form that. To have a good chance to capture the sub 5 micron dust we need to flow about 1000 CFM and that requires several things.

Firstly 4" pipe won't flow that much at typical high volume pressures that a capable ducted system will create. The maximum is around 750 CFM which is way too low.

4" machine ports ditto and until manufacturers recognise that fact there is only one solution and that is enlarge the port to match the duct size.

The 6" recommendation is the minimum, I have seen reports that 7" works better but that is unobtainable in Oz so I can't verify it.

Just as an aside Clearvue supply a DE with a 16" impeller (Clearvue Max) and it was produced for use in other countries where the grid supply was 50hz which is what just about every country uses outside the US and I guess Canada. This meant that the motor speed dropped from 3450 to 2850 RPM and at that motor speed would have the same performance as their 15" impeller machine. Of course that plan went out the window when everyone started to use the 16" machine in the US and to do that a 8" duct system is needed with 6" drops to the machines. Using the bigger impeller means multiple machines can be used at once with good dust capture at both. Another advantage of a Max is that it can be run at slower speeds with less noise using a 3 phase motor and a VFD. As I have said previously I would not buy a single phase DE for a bet.


Offline DynaGlide

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2022, 12:57 PM »


After lots of research I landed on this Jet unit. It was $900 with an eBay Memorial Day sale coupon. Things I like are the 1.5HP motor, the faux thien baffle/cylone whatever you wanna call it vortex, small footprint, and pretty good 2 micron filtration. I have one of those 1 micron ceiling mount filtration units I run any time I'm in the shop kicking up dust. I'm A-OK running hose to each tool since I only have room for a few tools anyway. If I can have a bandsaw, jointer, and planer in my shop that's plenty. And my little jobsite table saw from DeWalt when I need to rip stuff.

It supposedly has 1100CFM at the motor and since my shop is so small, the hose will only extend about 6 feet to a tool in use. It's 'technically' mobile, but on my rubber mat flooring it's tough to move so I'll keep it parked where it is unless I really badly need the space for a project.

I'll use the Rockler Dust right setup that allows for quick connect to tools.

Now back to figuring out which jointer to get. .

Matt
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 01:01 PM by DynaGlide »
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Offline ChuckS

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2022, 01:25 PM »
Same price as the Rockler but 1/2HP more. That should be good for any of your machine. Those castors can easily be changed to larger ones if one day mobility becomes important.

Are you going to use it with an auto switch? Except the CT15, I use all dust extraction equipment with an iVac auto switch (2 x 15 amp outlets).

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #84 on: June 01, 2022, 01:32 PM »
Same price as the Rockler but 1/2HP more. That should be good for any of your machine. Those castors can easily be changed to larger ones if one day mobility becomes important.

Are you going to use it with an auto switch? Except the CT15, I use all dust extraction equipment with an iVac auto switch (2 x 15 amp outlets).

I looked into the Jet switch and people say it trips a 20amp breaker so I'll pass on that. I have an iVac 16amp dedicated to my Kapex/FLEX vac setup. Not sure if I'll get one for the DC just yet. I mean, I will, just not sure which unit to purchase at the moment. Does iVac offer a unit for 1.5HP? The one I have on my FLEX vac maxes out at 1HP I believe.
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Offline ChuckS

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #85 on: June 01, 2022, 01:42 PM »
https://www.ivacswitch.com/ivac-for-diys/ivac-dust-collector-remote-switch/ That site may have info. about auto switches for 1.5HP.

I also remember another thread on this Forum about auto switches for 20 amp? or 2 HP?

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #86 on: June 01, 2022, 01:49 PM »

I looked into the Jet switch and people say it trips a 20amp breaker so I'll pass on that. I have an iVac 16amp dedicated to my Kapex/FLEX vac setup. Not sure if I'll get one for the DC just yet. I mean, I will, just not sure which unit to purchase at the moment. Does iVac offer a unit for 1.5HP? The one I have on my FLEX vac maxes out at 1HP I believe.

Each of my iVAC auto switches provides two 15amp outlets (provided the switch is plugged into two separate 15 amp circuits). If your 1.5 HP d.c. is rated for 15amp and the machine used with the d.c. is also rated for 15amp or lower, you can use the ordinary iVAC auto switch.

My auto switch only tripped once when it was used with the 1HP dust collector, SawStop 1.75Hp and a shop vac all together at the same time while ripping a long 2" thick oak plank.

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #87 on: June 01, 2022, 01:50 PM »
https://www.ivacswitch.com/ivac-for-diys/ivac-dust-collector-remote-switch/ That site may have info. about auto switches for 1.5HP.

I also remember another thread on this Forum about auto switches for 20 amp? or 2 HP?

So it looks like that's the one I already have. Shame I can't hook both my FLEX vac and the Jet to it. When I setup my Kapex I put it and my FLEX on separate 20amp circuits and put one of those clamp on sensors on the cable of the Kapex to automate the flex vac. I didn't want to take any chances after all the Kapex failure nonsense.
If it can truly handle a 1.5hp DC I'll probably buy another for the Jet. I'm leery since it says 16A or something on the front of it. Or I guess I could steal the iVac I have now and move it over to the Jet and get a cheap remote switch for the Flex and get used to turning the FLEX on/off whenever I'm using the Kapex. Not a horrible solution as I often find I'm waiting for the iVac to turn on/off the vac doing quick cuts on the Kapex.


Edit: I think I'll pickup just the remote for $30 and try that out and see how I like it and if it causes any issues with my breaker.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 01:57 PM by DynaGlide »
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Offline ChuckS

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2022, 02:35 PM »
When I setup my Kapex I put it and my FLEX on separate 20amp circuits and put one of those clamp on sensors on the cable of the Kapex to automate the flex vac. I didn't want to take any chances after all the Kapex failure nonsense.

Same worry here with my EB model (now 7 years old). I hook the Kapex up to an auto switch with one cord plugged (tool) into a 20amp circuit and the other aux. (shop vac) into a 15amp circuit. (During the first year of pandemic, I spent a few hundred dollars (even city inspection (virtual two times) cost money!) and installed two 20amp circuits in the shop myself.)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 02:43 PM by ChuckS »

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2022, 02:42 PM »
When I setup my Kapex I put it and my FLEX on separate 20amp circuits and put one of those clamp on sensors on the cable of the Kapex to automate the flex vac. I didn't want to take any chances after all the Kapex failure nonsense.

Same worry here with my EB model (now 7 years old). I hook the Kapex up to an auto switch with one cord plugged (tool) into a 20amp circuit and the other aux. (shop vac) into a 15amp circuit.

@ChuckS So the iVac turns on the DC no problem when I flip it manually. But after thinking it over I don't really think I need a remote. It's within 6ft of my workspace and DC's aren't really meant to be turned on/off repeatedly anyway. It isn't a big deal to walk over and turn it on before I use a tool and leave it on until I'm done.

Now if it were shoved into a corner and hard to get to I'd reconsider.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline festal

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #90 on: June 01, 2022, 03:39 PM »
I'm using iVac system with my 1.5HP oneida mini gorilla.  Works great via remote that it comes with and also have few of the clamp on triggers that ivac sells.  Also work fine.  Had to relocate the location of the clamp few times as other tools were triggering the dust collector.  My mini gorilla is 120v version so as ivac

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Offline Peter_C

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #91 on: June 01, 2022, 08:45 PM »
I prefer a remote for my dust collector as I leave it on when making adjustments to machinery.

The Jet should be using a magnetic switch so something like this should be easy enough to wire in. You can find the wiring diagrams online and I can show you photos of how Jet did it on a 240v 3HP unit.
Remote Switch

Still going to recommend you purchase an air quality meter like the Dylos. It's what you can't see that harms you.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #92 on: June 01, 2022, 09:42 PM »
I have the iVac switch for the DC and sensors for each of my tools.
However I use the remote most of the time because I don't like cycling
the DC motor on/off repeatedly. Jumping around from tool to tool when
processing rough stock means the jointer, planer, and TS are all seeing
action. So I have turned off all the sensors at the tools and use the remote
clipped on my belt. I bought the system over 10 years ago and they are
very different than what is sold today.

I have two other problems are what first got me using the remote. The
first is the motor upgrade I did to the bandsaw. Putting that DVR motor on
there was the best thing I for that saw giving gobs more power and it runs
super smooth with variable speed not just two or three. But the controller
for the DVR draws enough power to trigger the iVac tool sensor and will start
the DC even when the bandsaw is idle. Newer iVac sensors don't have this
problem and have an adjustable trigger, my first gen versions do not.

The second is the NOVA Voyager motor at some (only the lower end so far)
RPMs will cause the iVac DC switch to power on. Seems to only happen
when I am using low RPM with large Forstner bits.

So for me the best option has been to just use the iVac remote on my belt.
That works well and runs for many months on two CR2032 batteries.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #93 on: June 01, 2022, 10:33 PM »
My shop is small, and every dust extraction equipment is usually located within a step or two from the machine in use.

The reason I put an auto switch in each dust collector/shop vac is that I don't like the noise from any of them even though I always wear ear protection and have made measures to dampen the noise. While I can turn off the dust extraction each time after I switch off the machine, I don't like the distraction, and prefer to move on to the next task immediately (be it walking back to the bench, or resetting the fence for another cut or boring, or checking the finished cut for squareness, etc.). Our workflows can be different.

Offline 4nthony

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #94 on: June 02, 2022, 12:56 AM »
...and have made measures to dampen the noise.

This subject could be a thread of its own and I know noise suppression is a very complicated topic, but I'm curious to know what you've done and what kind of results you've achieved.

My shop is one half of a 1940s era freestanding garage that is unfinished and uninsulated. I've considered adding an insulation kit to the back of the garage door along with some Rockwool insulation and a couple layers of OSB or drywall but I just don't know if when it's done, the benefits will warrant the cost.

 
Recon Tool Notifications

Anthony

"The best way to get a correct answer on the internet is to post an obviously wrong answer and wait for someone to correct you." - Kevin Kelly

Offline Mini Me

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #95 on: June 02, 2022, 07:10 AM »
For those who are interested I was part of the team that developed this system in Australia and only recently decided to leave and move on to something else. It is not available for export and may never be unfortunately. We were forced to develop it because the cost of IVAC in Oz was simply too expensive, a 6"/150mm blast gate was about $800AUD and ours was about half that.

https://autoblastgates.com.au/

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #96 on: June 02, 2022, 10:49 AM »
...and have made measures to dampen the noise.

This subject could be a thread of its own and I know noise suppression is a very complicated topic, but I'm curious to know what you've done and what kind of results you've achieved.

My shop is one half of a 1940s era freestanding garage that is unfinished and uninsulated. I've considered adding an insulation kit to the back of the garage door along with some Rockwool insulation and a couple layers of OSB or drywall but I just don't know if when it's done, the benefits will warrant the cost.
Anthony,

Economical and effective:

https://tinyurl.com/2atmtn85


You can also warp the outside of the insulation material with Kraft paper or the like if the insulation gets a high chance of being disturbed.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 10:57 AM by ChuckS »

Offline Peter_C

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #97 on: June 02, 2022, 01:45 PM »
My shop is one half of a 1940s era freestanding garage that is unfinished and uninsulated. I've considered adding an insulation kit to the back of the garage door along with some Rockwool insulation and a couple layers of OSB or drywall but I just don't know if when it's done, the benefits will warrant the cost.
First bolt the garage to the floor with 5/8" bolts like Titans or glue threaded rod in with 3" plates and nuts on top which is what I did as it is cheaper. Also add proper earthquake retrofit hardware in, especially around doors. Plywood is perfect for a garage as it acts as shearwall, and gives a great place to hang cabinets and stuff anywhere. Drywall over the top creates a finished look if desired. Insulation could be rockwool, but there are other alternatives, as sound will barely travel thru a wall with plywood on each side. The garage door kits are junk, and that is where most of the heat/cooling is lost. I found 2" rigid foam fit perfectly on "my" garage door, just measure depth. I did have to route free hand every piece to clear a raised panel inside, but I have minimal air gaps and 2" of foam. Also filled in all the channels and groves inside prior to installing rigid foam, with spray in foam from a can that requires a gun to dispense. (Spray foam is also good to put around the base of the walls to seal them up from air exchanges.) Thin aluminum can be pop riveted over the door sections to create a cleaner look and bring it up to fire code. The door spring(s) will need tension increased which is easy to do with a wrench and a couple of socket extensions used to turn them.

Edit: Then get a mini-split for AC/heat.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 01:47 PM by Peter_C »

Offline festal

  • Posts: 297
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #98 on: June 02, 2022, 07:28 PM »
...and have made measures to dampen the noise.

This subject could be a thread of its own and I know noise suppression is a very complicated topic, but I'm curious to know what you've done and what kind of results you've achieved.

My shop is one half of a 1940s era freestanding garage that is unfinished and uninsulated. I've considered adding an insulation kit to the back of the garage door along with some Rockwool insulation and a couple layers of OSB or drywall but I just don't know if when it's done, the benefits will warrant the cost.

Check out Bent's woodworking on IG or youtube he just went through this in his new garage shop.  He did research and ended up doing fake wall with Rockwool, safe and sound drywall and something else.  He explains his implementation and why he decided to go that way

Offline festal

  • Posts: 297
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #99 on: June 02, 2022, 07:30 PM »
@Bob D. i had simliar issues with new ivac but i didn't adjust anything from default yet.  Just had to move the sensor into a different spot and that fixed the issue.   I didn't try it with dvr motor as I don't have nova but I do have bosch adjustable drill press and it doesn't trigger the dust collector.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9786
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #100 on: June 02, 2022, 10:18 PM »
Matt, that's the same unit I've had since 2003 minus the internal baffle which I'm going to add. I use 4" corrugated vinyl snaked around the shop to connect to the various machines. I can attach it to a 6" Delta jointer, a 14" Delta bandsaw, a 12" Delta radial arm saw, a 10" Bosch tablesaw, a 6" Jet belt and 12" disc sander and the Dewalt 735 planer. Some of the machines have short stubby connections while others have longer 10' foot connections.

All that stuff works well, I maintain a continuous ground by using the spiral wire inside of the 4" corrugated and connect all of the items to the 4" corrugated through Magport connectors. The whole system works well and it's simple to just connect and reconnect each item.

I tried all of those 4" plastic "quick disconnect" items and they are just junk. If anyone wants them, if you pay for shipping I will gladly send all of them your way.  [smile]
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 11:22 PM by Cheese »

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #101 on: June 03, 2022, 05:48 AM »
@Cheese , how are you making the ground connection across the MagPort fittings.

Do you have a short jumper wire connected to the wire in the hose that you ground on the tool?

-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1431
Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #102 on: June 03, 2022, 07:24 AM »
I tried all of those 4" plastic "quick disconnect" items and they are just junk. If anyone wants them, if you pay for shipping I will gladly send all of them your way.  [smile]

Which ones? I'm using the Rockler Dust Right now and aside from not having a ground connection, it's incredibly simple to use.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #103 on: June 03, 2022, 07:37 AM »
Matt, doesn't your Flex have a tool plug built in? Mine does.

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #104 on: June 03, 2022, 07:38 AM »
Yes Jeff but it's rated for something like 6 Amps. I wouldn't dare plug my Kapex into it.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #105 on: June 03, 2022, 07:39 AM »
Got it. Now I understand.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #106 on: June 03, 2022, 07:44 AM »
@Cheese , how are you making the ground connection across the MagPort fittings.

Do you have a short jumper wire connected to the wire in the hose that you ground on the tool?

You got it Bob... [big grin]...for now it's a Molex connector but I have pulled apart a Magport and it's pretty simple to use the magnets themselves as part of the electrical connection. A short piece of copper wire and a soldered copper disc and the Molex goes away. On a rainy day that's where I'll eventually end up at. You just have to make sure the correct magnets are connected.

You can see how clean the outside wall of the 4" hose is.




Offline Bob D.

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #107 on: June 03, 2022, 07:48 AM »
Nice, I will have to look into modifying my MagPort connectors to include grounding.

Now that I see your photo I feel like this was discussed a while back in another thread.

Some searching on my part is in order. :-)
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #108 on: June 03, 2022, 08:03 AM »
Which ones? I'm using the Rockler Dust Right now and aside from not having a ground connection, it's incredibly simple to use.

These ones from Woodcraft Matt. For 2 hose end connectors and a center QD connector you're up to $24 while a single Magport is $23, however the Magport doesn't suddenly disconnect itself when the hose is stretched a little bit.  [sad]




Offline rvieceli

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #109 on: June 03, 2022, 08:14 AM »
On the subject of magports, take a look at the starter kit for 4 inch hose. You get 3 magports two short lengths of 4 inch hose and 5 hose clamps for 73 bucks.

 A section of short hose, a magport and 2 clamps for a machine. So you can do 2 machines and the other magport clamps to the hose from your collector.

https://magport.net/products/4-starter-kit

Ron
« Last Edit: June 03, 2022, 08:45 AM by rvieceli »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #110 on: June 03, 2022, 08:42 AM »
On the subject of magports, take a look at the starter kit for 4 inch hose. You get 3 magports to short lengths of 4 inch hose and 5 hose clamps for 73 bucks.

 A section of short hose, a magport and 2 clamps for a machine. So you can do 2 machines and the other magports clamps to the hose from your collector.


Thanks for that Ron...that's exactly what I installed on my Jet Belt/Disc sander.


Offline ChuckS

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #111 on: June 03, 2022, 10:52 AM »
No doubt, the magport is a better product, but at twice the price of a QD fitting:



I use the QD fittings for my Sawstop (4' dia.) or thickness planer (2-1/2" dia.):




I've forgotten to connect them to the dust collector, but they have never come loose on me nor is there any leak during use because I don't usually pull the hose around. The magports, however, should be the choice if one often needs to move hoses around during use.

By the way, for the really frugal folks, they can use just one QD fitting on the dust collector, and connect the hose (4" dia.) from as many machines as they have (with a 4" port) -- one at a time -- to the fitting with a handled spring clamp (the red clamp in the third image).
« Last Edit: June 03, 2022, 10:58 PM by ChuckS »

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #112 on: June 03, 2022, 01:05 PM »
In place of that clunky Rube Goldberg setup that Magport has with the short hose and clamps, I'd like to see versions that slip right on to the exhaust port of most tools. How many different diameters are there, maybe four in the nominal 4 inch size?

For hoses it would be nice to have the back half of the QD connectors that threads into the hose but with a Magport flange on the business end. You could eliminate a bunch of ugly clamps and adapters.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kimbuaslı

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Re: Tiny dust collector
« Reply #113 on: June 11, 2022, 03:18 AM »
On the subject of magports, take a look at the starter kit for 4 inch hose. You get 3 magports to short lengths of 4 inch hose and 5 hose clamps for 73 bucks.

 A section of short hose, a magport and 2 clamps for a machine. So you can do 2 machines and the other magports clamps to the hose from your collector.




Thanks for that Ron..,that's exactly what I installed on my Jet Belt/Disc sander.

(Attachment Link)
it's too big
« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 03:21 AM by kimbuaslı »