I've been doing more and more research on this thing and can admit when I'm wrong. It looks great. One video I watched today showed me a specific use-case for me, the FLW-inspired designs I wanted to incorporate on my last project and ultimately settled for a simpler version.

It really would be a perfect case for me in my small shop, I just can't afford it right now. $1500? Yeah, I'd make that happen somehow. I'm still going to try and make it happen eventually, but it won't be in time for these upcoming projects I have planned.

This looks like a really clever toy/tool I'd quite like to own. However, maybe I'm stating the obvious, but isn't the main disadvantage with this (in comparison to a flat bed CNC machine) that you have to drive it yourself through contact time, rather than just letting it do its thing as you get on with another part of the build?

So essentially people probably shouldn't be comparing it to a traditional CNC in the same way you wouldn't compare a pillar drill with an 18v hand drill, even though they both drill holes. Separate use cases and the decision should be driven by your workflow rather the the specific ability of the tool.

So essentially people probably shouldn't be comparing it to a traditional CNC in the same way you wouldn't compare a pillar drill with an 18v hand drill, even though they both drill holes. Separate use cases and the decision should be driven by your workflow rather the the specific ability of the tool.

@TwelvebyTwenty you are spot on.

I own both, the Origin & a small Shapeoko3. Nearly everything I've done so far is small enough to fit on the SO3 but I have been deferring to the Origin.

It's utility just increased immensely with the release of the WorkStation. If anyone is considering the Origin & haven't seen this take a close look. 2 quite different examples:



This is a shop fixture, downloaded the design from their file sharing hub and cut on WorkStation. It's an example of a somewhat complex design created in CAD or vector software. I made the add-on MDF table for the WS, it's 420MM by 300MM. Haven't tested the overall capacity but I'm guessing I could use double-sided tape to attach material around 24" by 12" to the table. This is actually larger than the SO3's capacity.



This was (poorly) done using on-tool design and grid to create a 1.55" diameter hole placed in the dead center of a 3.5" blank, then using a 1.55" square to further modify one blank. All without leaving the shop or using a computer. I should have used a rectangle larger than 1.55" in Y to eliminate the clipped ends, instead I had to resort to a rasp).

For simple stuff, the on-tool design is huge for me. Even when designing more complex stuff on a computer there is no need to learn CAM, which is a huge time saver over a traditional CNC router.

As already noted, the downside is you must manually control the tool. For most of what I do, this is fine. YMMV

Also, research the gridding functionality. In short, you can scan your material, probe the edges to establish precise X/Y & zero, then "place" a grid on it that your designs will snap to. This enables things like adding mortises or tenons to already sized material, pockets for hardware, and so much more. You can make similar cuts with a lot of cartesian CNC routers, but it'll take you a lot more time.

Just my ...

RMW

Richard. You are making me jealous. My SO Workstation doesn’t come till Aug/Sept timeframe

::crying::

Cheers. Bryan.


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Sorry Bryan... 

I waited until the last day of the original preorder for the SO itself and regretted it. The WS was ordered < 3 hours after it hit the inbox.

Hang tough, it's worth the wait.

RMW

Had to make 9.75 diameter 1/8" acrylic round for customers portal today...no drawing, converting files or any prep work other than attaching tape.  Five minutes later, perfect round.

Hey @ghjaxman  what hold downs are you referencing?  There’s nothing in this thread about them. 

I think he was referring to those pin clips Richard /RMW has on his Workstation. I was curious about them as well.

He mistakenly referred to “Cheese” instead of “big cheese”. 

Cheers. Bryan.


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Quote from: Gregor on June 12, 2020, 07:14 PM

What keeps me from buying a Shaper Origin is their https://www.shapertools.com/de-de/terms#tc as of 26. September 2018 which with

Quote

2. Our License to you. Subject to these Terms of Service, we give you a limited, nonexclusive, nontransferable, revocable license to use the Sites, Services, and Products. [...] Shaper may limit your access to any Site, Service, or Product in its sole discretion.

states that you are unable to legally transfer ownership (as you're not able to transfer the license to use the build-in software) and access to something you paid for can be taken from you on a whim without even giving you a reason.

TL;DR: the moment your use case for Shaper Origin ends that thing has scrap value at best, sooner in case they unilaterally decide to turn it off.

Compare that to

Quote

(a) License to Shaper.  You give Shaper (and those trusted third parties we work with) a non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, use, store, display, reproduce, save, modify, create derivative works, perform, and distribute your User Content solely for the purposes of operating, providing, improving, and developing the Shaper Sites, Services, and Products. When you post content to a public or shared space in the Sites, Services, or Products, such as our Community Forum, you also grant Shaper a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, unrestricted, worldwide license to reproduce, prepare derivative works, distribute copies, perform, or publicly display your User Content in any medium and for any purpose, including commercial purposes.

where you have no recourse or way to stop them from making money of your designs should they decide to. Please note that using the cloud feature of the shaper origin (eg. loading a shape into it via their website) technically is as case of  When you post content to a public or shared space in the Sites, Services, or Products, giving them the right to rip-off legally use your IP in any medium and for any purpose, including commercial.

TL;DR: what you upload to their cloud platform (even in your own partition) is no longer yours.

Then we have

Quote

17. Modification of these Terms of Service. These Terms of Service are subject to occasional change or update. Whenever the Terms of Service are materially changed, we will notify you, and the change will take effect 30 calendar days after notice is posted for existing users and immediately for new users. You are responsible for keeping your contact information up to date if you wish to receive notice of these changes. If you do not want to be subject to any changes in these Terms of Service, you must discontinue using our Services and Products before the change takes place. Continued use will serve as an acceptance of the changed Terms of Service

which basically codifies that they can change the ToS to turn your shaper origin into a pay-per-use device, grant them ius primae noctis or whatever else evil things one can come up with... and the moment you turn on your (*sig*) shaper origin the next time you agree to let them charge your VISA per mm routed, to bend over and relax or comply with whatever else they might come up with. And in case you're not agreeing you, as of the first quote, only have the option to scrap the machine as you're legally unable to sell it as fit for the original purpose since you can not transfer the software license...

TL;DR: you have no rights.

I have pointed that out to them, politely, 3 months ago, together with a list of other things incompatible with how things work here in Europe. While they have used the last three months to change some of the (for them) worst things that I found with their offering... the issue of their ToS is still as-is. Having given them enough time (akin to responsible disclosure) to change this without effect... it's IMHO now reasonable to voice my dispraise for their terms of service and to advise others against spending money on a device that you will not own, a device that can be stopped to function without reason or notice, a device that when used in the advertised use scenario (while it's still functioning) will steal transfer the rights to your designs to someone else without compensation.

________________________________________________________________________
The terms of service of ShaperTools are unacceptable and should not be accepted.
As of that Shaper Origin is, while things stay that way, not worth it.

This guy again. Every, and I mean EVERY TOS has tons of mundane garbage in it!  There have been plenty of Shapers go up for sale and people gladly exchanged them and everything is working great. If you bought 200 of them and resold them at a profit... those clauses make perfect sense.

I am sorry your black and white world accepts no grey areas.

Good day sir. I hope you find happiness in something in life.

Cheers. Bryan


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Cheese what are hold down items you showed and where did you get them? 

Those are Tiger Claws developed by Luke at Carbide 3D and intended for use with the Shapeoko which @Richard/RMW mentioned (as well as the Nomad).

(ob. discl. I work for Carbide 3D)

I was a beta-tester and they are flat out amazing.

Quote from: Cheese on June 16, 2020, 07:24 PM

Hey @ghjaxman  what hold downs are you referencing?  There’s nothing in this thread about them. 

He mistakenly referred to “Cheese” instead of “big cheese”. 

Ouch! I think... 

RMW

He mistakenly referred to “Cheese” instead of “big cheese”. 

Ouch! I think... 

[/quote]

No ouch Richard... ...I'm also known as Big Cheese and for awhile was Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger, no Coke, Pepsi. 

Hey Richard @Richard/RMW  what size track are you using the Tiger Claws in?

In response to the original question; it's fantastic.

Wanted to whip up a mirror frame for the bathroom; wanted some curves on the top and bottom.

Normally i'd have to layout, cut, and shape a template close to perfection, then use a flush trim bit to get it all done.

I ended up just double side taping 1" thick white oak to a sacrificial piece of ply, and laying out shaper tape on my workbench.

I'll be honest; it was some marathon cutting; taking cuts at only 1/8" increments, but the pieces came out awesome, and i don't have templates laying around.

BUT, if i were making multiple of the same thing, using this thing for templates alone is such a time saver.

Only catch is taking some time (if you don't know how to already) making svg files. I was an avid Sketchup user, and someone made a plugin for it that worked really well, but now with only the new web version being free, no way to use it. So, i've taken up learning to use Fusion 360; its free for personal use, and has a Shaper addon to create the SVG's.

Only time i've had "accuracy" issues is my own fault; trying to take to big a cut usually.

Quote from: Jim Kirkpatrick on June 17, 2020, 06:38 AM

Have you failed to learn from Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward or Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission that all it takes is one insane court judgement... for them to be coming to collect on what you blissfully signed away? Which one of the three poor souls in South Park S15E01 do you guys plan to be?

Just stop.  You made your point, you don't like the TOU.  No need to start insulting people to further your dialogue.  You can start another thread on the topic if you like.

I have not used the Shaper Origin but Rollie Johnson did a presentation on it at the Milwaukee Woodworking Show and he reported that it was extremely accurate. Plus, if you can make accurate jigs with tablesaws, bandsaws, and regular template routing, how could the Shape not be accurate enough. It would certainly be at least as or more accurate than these other methods.

It seems the required tape, which is consumable, could also be an ongoing cost which isn't obvious on the surface.

The Shaper cannot do 3D carving in the sense that you would need to repetitively go over the same pattern multiple times to create varying depths.

Mostly the only reason I would ever consider one is if I were doing inlays on a regular basis or needed to repetitively carve a design on the surface of a piece. I own a Domino and, for making joints, that appears to be faster and easier.