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Author Topic: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets  (Read 6924 times)

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Online Cheese

  • Posts: 10475
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2023, 09:04 PM »
Quote from: JKM on March 17, 2023, 05:14 PM
@Cheese did you ever manage to install the type 2 musclechuck in an of1010?
It would be great to hear if this worked out?

First off... [welcome] ...to the FOG.  [smile]

Second...sorry to disappoint but I did not.  [sad]  Just one of those things that got away from me while I was drinking the Musclechuck cool aid.

Thanks for bringing it back up though as I may revisit the issue once I clean out the internal cobwebs.  [smile]
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Offline Grev

  • Posts: 204
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2023, 11:35 AM »
Quote from: JimH2 on February 22, 2019, 01:57 PM
Quote from: TealaG on February 22, 2019, 12:09 PM
I agree that the website doesn't explain the concept well.   I have the xtreme xtension and when I saw the muscle chuck, I thought something was "missing".   Yeah...this thing doesn't go in like a router bit.  This muscle chuck replaces the collet nut and collet!   I love the idea and hope it works.   

I've used the Musclechuck for years and prefer it over a bit extender, but it does need to be calibrated .. as mentioned below. In designing a router sled, I have been working with Joe De Rosa to design an extended collet for the Triton Router.  I already have an extended collet on my OF2200, but haven't thought of trying it on my OF1400.  The one thing that is important with the MC is to calibrate it with a dial gauge to achieve the minimum runout possible. This is a simple process that does require a dial gauge. I use a short section of WoodRiver t-track, clamping one end to the base and the other and to the dial gauge. I am now about to test 4 different bit extenders in the same manner ... just curious if there is a significant difference in the runout of the different bit extenders.  I'll be glad to post about what my findings are.

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Offline usernumber1

  • Posts: 282
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2023, 02:36 PM »
they have a picture of the 1400 on their site

https://www.musclechuck.com/about/


Going to order some on Monday because they have a solution for a Milwaukee 5625-20. The infinity tools / eliminator / specifically says they don't make one  https://www.infinitytools.com/eliminator-quick-change-router-chucks


Little concerned that 1010 might protrude too low for some of my bits when you add the reducing collet as well. But then again I can use 1/2 bits on a 1010 (???)
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Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2576
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2023, 07:44 PM »
The point of the Infinity Extreme is the "one tool" aspect. You end up with some extension as a result of it, but that's not really the goal, just a side-effect.
I have an extension that is similar to the CMT, but that was for a specific depth situation. It still takes 2 wrenches, so no advantage other than the length. So far it has only been a one-time-use thing, but it's in the arsenal, ready.

The Muscle Chuck seems like a similar bit holding method, with a different mounting to the router.
The Infinity being more universal, and the other potentially more rigid, but limited to certain models.
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 6042
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2023, 12:58 PM »
I’ve ordered the regular Muscle Chuck for both PC 7518 and Bosch 1617 (two different chucks).

In addition to the other benefits people have mentioned the fact that the MC clamps the bit laterally rather than pulling the bit down as the collet nut is tightened means a bit can be bottomed out before tightening. If you have a reliable means of determining the distance of the router to the base (as in a router lift with digital read out) then you could change bits and come back to the original bit without the usual annoying trial and error fiddling.

The regular MC is hollow so the bit shank has to be long to bottom out in the spindle/shaft. I wonder if the MC extended version is also hollow? It looks long enough that a bit could bottom in the MC if it is closed.

Sommerfeld says to put an O-ring into the shaft for the bit to bottom against. He (Kreg’s brother) says his matched bits (rail and stile for example) don’t require further fiddling but I’ve never trusted that.
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Offline rst

  • Posts: 2943
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2023, 01:18 PM »
I've been using the original Eliminator chuck since it came out in the 90s on my PC 7518 in a Bench Dog router lift, also from the 90s.  I've literally routed thousands of 3/8' - 2' x 2'  cash register guards and other plastics for a reginal grocer along with making all the quarter sawn oak trim in my house.  I don't even have to lock the spindle to tighten the chuck.  I use a 1/4" adaptor in the chuck when necessary to use smaller bits. I made my table from 1 1/8' laminate faced particle board that was marketed back then for restaurant tables.  The table is 49 x 30 and I have an Incra Wonder Fence on it and a Dust Router dual collection attached and use a Festool CMS twin hose attached to a 2 1/2 dia hose and get virtually no escaping chips.  Welded angle table is closed on three sides with acrylic and front is open.
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 6042
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2023, 01:48 PM »
Thanks for the feedback on the Eliminator chuck @rst. Your Wonder Fence is across the 30” side? Are you using the Incra positioner?

I’ve a sorta similar setup, 7518 in a Bench Dog lift in a BD iron table (32x24) with BD fence with the same dust collection (now sold by MilesCraft).

I’m assembling a new setup with Woodpecker phenolic table and WP Super Fence and a Jointech SmartLift (has Wixey dro built-in). Was going to use another PC 7518 but will probably get a WP Spintech motor. Will try to install the MilesCraft dual dust collection.

And I just assembled a portable rig (but heavy) with Rockler phenolic table and R fence with Bosch 1617 in the Bosch inverted base.
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Offline rst

  • Posts: 2943
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2023, 02:48 PM »
My fence is parallel to 49”, I would have liked a cast table but was not available when I did mine.  I use Magswichs on my table saw as guides instead of feather boards.  I’m using Magswitch 200 and 400 to position concealed continuous hinges on a pair of commercial steel doors as we speak
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 02:50 PM by rst »
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 6042
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2023, 03:57 PM »
Quote from: rst on March 19, 2023, 02:48 PM
My fence is parallel to 49”, I would have liked a cast table but was not available when I did mine.  I use Magswichs on my table saw as guides instead of feather boards.  I’m using Magswitch 200 and 400 to position concealed continuous hinges on a pair of commercial steel doors as we speak

@rst how did you mount the Incra fence when it is so much shorter than the table?

I love using the MagSwitch things on the iron table. For that table I’ve been using some old (20th century) very heavy extrusion fence that pivots on one end and has to be clamped on the other. I set the pivot pin 12” from the bit and then make adjustments 12” away from the bit in the opposite direction. The movement of the fence relative to the bit is then 1/2 as much as the free end of the fence moves. When adjustment is needed I set a MagSwitch up against the fence on the opposite side of the direction it needs to go then unclamp the fence and put a feeler gauge between the MagSwitch and the fence and then re-clamp.

The new phenolic table will be a step back in that regard until Woodpecker gets the Micro-adjust unit back in stock.
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Offline rst

  • Posts: 2943
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2023, 07:29 PM »
I attached pieces of 8020 10 series, the flat with two slots at either end and used the Wonderfence clamps.  When I found 8020, I bought various extrusions to tinker.
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 6042
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2023, 12:10 PM »
I put the regular Muscle Chuck (only 1/4” longer than the stock collet) in a PC 7518. Used a 1/2” carbide spiral bit for checking vibration. Vibration seemed moderate to low and rotating the chuck to different positions didn’t make any difference that I could tell. Didn’t measure runout.

I’ll probably get the longer version too.

Tried this in the new/old SmartLift Digital (last produced over ten years ago) which proved the worth of the easy bit change because the crank for driving the lift is too short to use when a long bit is installed. Poor design. That’s not a problem with the easy Allen key chuck release. You don’t even need to raise the router up to wrench height.
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 6042
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2023, 04:19 PM »
I’m trying to find a genuine MC 1/4” collet online. Woodline says “the manufacturer is experiencing severe equipment difficulties” and that the “30 day delay” has been in effect for months with no end in sight.

Wrote DeRosa and am waiting…

Meanwhile I tried a Whiteside 1/4” collet/adapter and a 1/4” bit and barely got the bit tight and then it had visible runout. Have to check the straightness of the Chinese bit bit I suspect the problem is that the Whiteside collet is a full 2 thousands under 1/2” and the bit is 1 thou under 1/4”.

I had planned to test the MC with a 1/2” precision ground dowel but the fit is too tight.

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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 6042
Re: Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2023, 11:06 PM »
 Put the same Chinese bit in a 1/4” PC collet and the fit was good and snug. No more visible runout than the usual Chinese bit.

Maybe the MC is good but the Whiteside collet isn’t. Too small on the outside and too big inside. Could barely get the bit tight and runout was terrible.
 
Not the first time I’ve had an issue with a Whiteside product. My Collins Ply Prep bit (made by Whiteside) is supposed to have a hash mark in the middle of the cutter but mine is about 1/16” off.

I’ve ordered an Eliminator chuck too. The maker claims it is dynamically balanced. There is a bit of steel drilled out on the side opposite the screw. The MC does not, instead depending on its asymmetrical balance to be counteracted by idiosyncrasies in the router spindle, and you have to find the best arrangement. The MC wasn’t too bad with a simple 1/2” diameter straight bit but I’m beginning to have my doubts about it.
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