Author Topic: Shaper Origin Design Software?  (Read 3019 times)

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Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 977
    • TimberFire Studio
Shaper Origin Design Software?
« on: March 18, 2022, 03:07 PM »
I have a buddy who just bought a Shaper Origin during the recent sale.  Not sure if its the full workstation setup or not.

He is at a loss as to which design software to use.  It's my understanding that there are several options.

He's a brilliant marquetry artist but does all his drawings by hand so his CAD experience is zilch.

What would y'all recommend that's easy to learn and use with the Shaper Origin?

Thanks!

Joe

Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6622
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Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2022, 03:20 PM »
I use Fusion 360 most often and for more complex stuff.

The on board design funtions work really well for basic shapes. Have him sign up for Shaper Labs, you can do more complex designs there and with some thought can create some really complex cut paths.

Tom

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1891
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2022, 07:03 PM »
I use InkScape. It has done everything I have needed, so far, and it's a free download.
Pretty much any drawing program that get out-put a file as SVG will work. So if your friend has experience with some other software, it will work too.
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Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 121
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2022, 08:16 PM »
Carbide Create has a free image tracing feature which might be useful for this:

https://community.carbide3d.com/t/carbide-create-image-tracing/31208

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 977
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2022, 08:28 PM »
Is Sketchup a good choice?
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2382
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2022, 09:35 PM »
Is Sketchup a good choice?

Joe there is limited support for creating SVG files, which is the Origins secret sauce. I'm a longtime user and favor sketchup for many things but SVG export isn't the best.

Fusion is great for CAD centric stuff, but if he's looking for a more artistic option one of the design packages like Inkscape, Illustrator or Affinity Designer may be a better option. AD is inexpensive and I think they have a trial.

RMW

Edit: just recalled these recent videos on marquetry with Origin.




« Last Edit: March 19, 2022, 07:14 AM by Richard/RMW »
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Offline djcook50

  • Posts: 11
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2022, 10:50 PM »
I have had the Shaper Origin for about 1 1/2 years.  I do almost all my designs in Affinity Designer (fairly affordable at about $50), which is great for the 2D svg files that are needed for the Shaper.  Designing in 3D design applications requires you to output to 2D files for the Origin.

There are also some pretty good basic onboard tools on the device.

Additionally, Shapertools.com has a straightforward online design tool (https://labs.shapertools.com/ ) for members where you can create your own designs and upload them to your dedicated work area.

The Shaper Origin is an awesome tool and opens lots of doors for creativity.

There is also an awesome discussion community at Shaper Tools and members are very helpful.  It helps to take advantage of the bi-weekly webinars also.

Dave



« Last Edit: March 18, 2022, 10:52 PM by djcook50 »

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1891
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2022, 07:22 AM »
The thing about programs like Fusion 360 is that their focus is in creating 3D projects.
The Origin is effectively a way to manage 2D (X and Y) because the Z axis is not "active" during the cut.
So, you are always cutting a 2D shape, seen a "plan view" perspective, that happens to have a 3rd dimension of your choosing.
Your 3 dimensional object has to be broken apart into the separate parts and each treated as such.
Where does 3D modelling fall into this? Yes, you can design a table with mortise and tenon joints at the aprons. But can it then separate those parts into something cuttable?
Even if it can, why bother? The on-board software in Origin can already do that.
Seems like F360 would be more useful to the 3D printer guys?
Am I missing something?
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Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2382
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2022, 09:55 AM »
I'd differ on that, SO employs a Z axis, it's just the depth of cut isn't encoded into the file.

Where it benefits from the SO F360 plugin is various cuts are color coded when the file is made from a body, which has Z depth, then the device recognizes the color and defaults to the proper type of cut.

An example is this MFT style top with 20mm holes along with countersunk holes for fasteners, the color for outer profile, through holes and pockets (black/white/grey). I can pocket 20mm using a 1/2" bit with Helix, same for the 8mm through holes using a 1/4" bit, by changing the z depth of cut on the tool. This is fantastic as I don't need to guide the tool by hand, just hold it in place while it helixes.

My personal opinion is F360 is great for stuff like the MFT top. More organic shapes are not my cup of tea, but I do think a graphic design program is probably better suited.

RMW

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Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 977
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Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2022, 11:05 AM »
For what it's worth, Wayne told me he mostly wants to use it to create templates for furniture components (legs, aprons, etc) as well as do inlays for his marquetry patterns.
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1891
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2022, 12:14 PM »
I'd differ on that, SO employs a Z axis, it's just the depth of cut isn't encoded into the file.

Where it benefits from the SO F360 plugin is various cuts are color coded when the file is made from a body, which has Z depth, then the device recognizes the color and defaults to the proper type of cut.

An example is this MFT style top with 20mm holes along with countersunk holes for fasteners, the color for outer profile, through holes and pockets (black/white/grey). I can pocket 20mm using a 1/2" bit with Helix, same for the 8mm through holes using a 1/4" bit, by changing the z depth of cut on the tool. This is fantastic as I don't need to guide the tool by hand, just hold it in place while it helixes.

My personal opinion is F360 is great for stuff like the MFT top. More organic shapes are not my cup of tea, but I do think a graphic design program is probably better suited.

RMW

Again though, the Z axis is not "active" in the cut. It can only plunge to the depth that you tell it and pull all of the way back out when you hit retract. It cannot "carve" like a tabletop CNC machine can.
Things like the squared corners of lettering can be done with a V-bit, where the Z axis pulls the bit up in the corners, on a tabletop CNC. Origin can't do that.
Of course that tabletop machine can't do anything on your floor or a bartop, so there are advantages/trade-offs with either.
As an example. If you need to cut the double depth pocket of a SOSS hinge, you treat it as two separate cuts. The longer shallower cut first, then back over the same place again deeper. The second pocket would be deeper, shorter and inside the first one, but this doesn't happen from within the file.
It will tell you "on screen", but it's up to you to actually set that depth.
This is what I mean by "not active". Depth (Z) is not part of the file, it must be set by you, and it cannot change during the cut. It cuts at the same depth through the entire cut, until you retract, or get too far off line. Even then it just aborts and pulls fully out. There again, you aren't likely to get the edge of your door lined up on your tabletop CNC either, but point made.
With a CNC machine, it might cut the shallow pocket first too, but it will come back around and go deeper on the next pass, depending upon the depth of both and parameters of the machine itself. That happens within the file.
You can only "Helix" in a certain range too. It only works within it's "error range", so you couldn't helix a 1" hole with a 1/4" bit. It can't move the bit "that far" away from it's centered position.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2382
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2022, 12:47 PM »
I'd differ on that, SO employs a Z axis, it's just the depth of cut isn't encoded into the file.

Where it benefits from the SO F360 plugin is various cuts are color coded when the file is made from a body, which has Z depth, then the device recognizes the color and defaults to the proper type of cut.

An example is this MFT style top with 20mm holes along with countersunk holes for fasteners, the color for outer profile, through holes and pockets (black/white/grey). I can pocket 20mm using a 1/2" bit with Helix, same for the 8mm through holes using a 1/4" bit, by changing the z depth of cut on the tool. This is fantastic as I don't need to guide the tool by hand, just hold it in place while it helixes.

My personal opinion is F360 is great for stuff like the MFT top. More organic shapes are not my cup of tea, but I do think a graphic design program is probably better suited.

RMW

Again though, the Z axis is not "active" in the cut. It can only plunge to the depth that you tell it and pull all of the way back out when you hit retract. It cannot "carve" like a tabletop CNC machine can.
Things like the squared corners of lettering can be done with a V-bit, where the Z axis pulls the bit up in the corners, on a tabletop CNC. Origin can't do that.
Of course that tabletop machine can't do anything on your floor or a bartop, so there are advantages/trade-offs with either.
As an example. If you need to cut the double depth pocket of a SOSS hinge, you treat it as two separate cuts. The longer shallower cut first, then back over the same place again deeper. The second pocket would be deeper, shorter and inside the first one, but this doesn't happen from within the file.
It will tell you "on screen", but it's up to you to actually set that depth.
This is what I mean by "not active". Depth (Z) is not part of the file, it must be set by you, and it cannot change during the cut. It cuts at the same depth through the entire cut, until you retract, or get too far off line. Even then it just aborts and pulls fully out. There again, you aren't likely to get the edge of your door lined up on your tabletop CNC either, but point made.
With a CNC machine, it might cut the shallow pocket first too, but it will come back around and go deeper on the next pass, depending upon the depth of both and parameters of the machine itself. That happens within the file.
You can only "Helix" in a certain range too. It only works within it's "error range", so you couldn't helix a 1" hole with a 1/4" bit. It can't move the bit "that far" away from it's centered position.

My only point was the 3D aspects of the design are not without value in that the SO plugin for F360 takes advantage of them in the SVG export.

@deepcreek Joe F360/SO are a great combo for templates.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5607
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2022, 01:28 PM »
This is an easy to use full featured 2D CAD program.

ViaCad 12

It's only 2D cad, no extra distractions in the interface.

There are also 3D versions using the same interface (with the requisite extra features) but if you expect to go that way I'd suggest dedicating the time spent learning to Fusion 360 instead.

It's $70 but here is a 20% discount code good thru tomorrow.    PCSTPOFF20

You can import a .jpg of a sketch, trace/draw over it with precision, and then export an .svg file.
I've found the "size" of the geometry in the exported .svg depends on the viewing size upon export so I make a bounding box of a specific size that is easy to re-scale on the Shaper. The bounding box also makes it easy to position on the workpiece on the SO.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 373
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2022, 05:48 PM »
I have been using affinity designer but it is a mac program. I love it but there is a lot to learn. The nice thing is you don't have to look for others with an SO using AD. It is very popular with those scrapbookers using the cricket cutters. They use svg as well and I have learned as much from watching how they work on youtube as I have SO people using it on You Tube. The matching book is worth the price in my honest opinion. I have been working through it as well. The best thing is to just get the program to decide what simple little things you want to do first then hit youtube. AD has a fair followiong.
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Offline aCircle

  • Posts: 9
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2022, 06:27 AM »
Another vote for Afinity designer. I use the iPad version and love it. Exports can be tedious.

For some reason iPad workflows with the Apple Pencil for SVG (shaper origin) and 3D Printing (shapr3D) have always stuck better in my head. Mouse and keyboard for Fusion, SketchUp, etc just never quite clicked.

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 526
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2022, 01:11 PM »
There is a simple and easy to use design tool at Shaper Labs.

It is not as comprehensive as the other tools mentioned in this thread, but I find it very good to use for designs that aren't too complex.  It is also getting improved.

It is browser based, so doesn't require any software to be purchased or installed.

Bob

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 3094
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2022, 08:19 PM »
Agree on Shaper Labs for a simple way to get started.  Browser based with a large library of SVG images you can import and use.

I use Graphic and Affinity Designer - both 2D vector drawing programs that are inexpensive and relatively easy to use.  Fusion is capable but complex to learn. 

Sketchup does have some SVG exporter plugins that are discussed and available on the Shaper forum as options if you are comfortable with Sketchup.

Offline 4nthony

  • Posts: 389
    • Slack for Recon Tools
Re: Shaper Origin Design Software?
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2022, 03:59 PM »
I've been playing around with Fusion 360 and doing some of the tutorials on the Shaper site for fun and knowledge. I usually design projects in SketchUp so learning 360 has been a little bit frustrating.

For those of you that use 360, is there anyway to get the visuals to be more like SketchUp?

I found the Display Settings -> Visual Styles -> Shaded options but they seem to be pretty dark. I can alternate between purple and black but can't find a way to eliminate the gradient shadows.

Is there a way to go from this:



...to this? This is how the model is display when dragging the cube or panning around.



I'd prefer to not have the gradients as my default visual setting.

Thanks!

UPDATE:

I found a switch under Display Settings -> Effects called Ambient Occlusion that seems to do the trick.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2022, 08:51 PM by 4nthony »
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