Author Topic: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner  (Read 6458 times)

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Offline Grev

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Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« on: November 01, 2018, 08:04 AM »
Just curious if anyone has one of these?  Trying to do what I can to handle the dust we all make.

Powermatic PM1250

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Offline RKA

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2018, 09:56 AM »
Considering it.  I'm a little troubled or puzzled by their specs on the particle filtration.  Usually you see XX% @ 1 micron or something like that.  In this case they changed it and eliminated references to the particle sizes.  When I get time I'll call them to sort out why they changed the filtration specs compared to the other air filter.

That said, I like the smaller form factor and the ability to move it around as needed.  I would prefer to have it somewhere in the vicinity of the active dust maker at any given time.  But since I work in a basement, if I wanted it hung from the ceiling joists (7-8 ft), it hangs low enough that I'm walking around it rather than under it with some other filters.  I'm unsure where I stand on that right now. 

I figure I've got until cyber monday to make a decision.  I'm not forking out asking price for this, and even at a discounted price (if it's eligible), it's still pricey.
-Raj

Offline williaty

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2018, 09:43 PM »
Did you get a straight answer out of them? Electrostatic filters often are poor performers, so I'd like to know the real rating before spending a huge chunk of change on this.

Offline RKA

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2018, 10:43 PM »
I never called them.  The more I thought over the price, the less inclined I was to commit to the purchase. 
-Raj

Offline Gregor

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2018, 01:58 AM »
Electrostatic filters often are poor performers
Can be quite effective though to trap the respirable dust that's able to pass a mechanical (pre-)filter.

Offline simonh

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2020, 04:08 AM »
Did anyone buy one of these or find out more information on the specification? Intriguing that there are no particle size removal specifications whereas the PM1200 does have ratings in the PDF manual. Makes you wonder if it's any good.

Sort of interested for a non-permanent small shop space in a basement room.  I use dust extraction on tools and wear a mask when using the tools but there's always some air-bourne dust around for awhile afterwards that I'd like to get on-top of. Alternatively, maybe something designed for indoor home use with guaranteed purification rates such as (https://www.iqair.com/support/tech-specs/healthpro-series) but they have low air-volume throughput.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 04:25 AM by simonh »
-Simon

Offline air19

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2020, 09:21 PM »
I have owned the PM1250 for a year and I really like it.  Yes it's expensive, but I have never had an air filtration system that runs this quiet.  Therefore I run it all the time and consequently it does a great job.  With the PM1250 this is the cleanest room in my entire house. 

I work in a basement shop about 13 feet by 19 feet.  I also have a larger shop where I do all my milling and rough sizing of cabinet materials.  So I'm working with plywood and hardwood to make furniture, built-ins and cabinetry for my wife - keeps me very busy and her happy so I can buy more Festool.  I use this small shop for all my final sizing of materials with my Festool tracksaw on an MFT with various fences and dogs to make high quality cuts.  I do all my joinery with the Domino, and then final sanding with various Festool sanders.  With a CT Midi I capture most of the dust, except some of the blowout when using the tracksaw.  But I also have a Bosch jigsaw, a couple of biscuit cutters, and a miter saw that are terrible at creating dust.  I rarely use the miter saw inside. 

I have a Dyson particle count meter which has really helped me monitor my airspace and utilize the PM1250.  Under normal conditions most rooms in my house have a particle count of 120 small and 20 large.  When I go through my normal build cycle with my Festool tools, the particle count in the shop can go up to 200 small and 60 large without any air filtration.  When I use the jig saw it can quickly balloon up to 1000 small and 200 large.  Under these bad conditions when I turn the PM on it will reduce the count to about 100 small in 10 minutes, and all the way down to 20 small, 1-2 large in 1 hour. 

Because this unit runs so quietly I keep ahead of the dust by running it whenever I start working and after I leave the shop thanks to it's timer function I let it run for another hour.  Once a week if I remember I will vacuum the face of the front screen.
I have mine on a rolling cart so I move it around to be close to where I am working.   

If you are serious about dust control, this unit and the Dyson meter will help you keep everything in check to make sure you are working in a safe environment.  For easily half the cost you can get one of the more traditional ceiling mounted units.  I had one.  It was too loud to run when I was in the shop so I just ran it for a couple hours when I left.  With the PM I feel like I am keeping ahead of a bad dust situation and the Dyson confirms that for me.  Bottom line - I have longer quieter sessions in my basement shop.  That makes it worth the cost for me. 


Offline simonh

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2020, 03:19 AM »
Thanks for the in-depth information and some quantitative data. Your basement shop sounds very similar in size to mine, and I use a lot of the same tools, all hooked up to dust collection. But, it doesn't take much for the room to become dusty and it isn't pleasant wearing a mask for extended periods.

These have only just become available in the UK via Axminster so I'll likely take a trip and have a look at one in the next few weeks. I'd heard lots of things about the noise of the traditional roof mounted versions and also the need to replace filters often. So, this looks like a good alternative and sounds like it does the job adequately in a small workshop where nothing is fastened to the floor, walls, or roof (it was a spare basement bedroom when we bought the house and in my wife's mind still is)!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 03:22 AM by simonh »
-Simon

Offline simonh

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2020, 09:54 AM »
@air19 I received mine today from Axminster here in the UK so it may be different from US models. The fan is very quiet but there's also a buzzing sort of noise coming from maybe some electronics. Does yours make this noise too? Just trying to determine if it is normal before I contact the manufacturer.
-Simon

Offline grbmds

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2020, 10:58 AM »
Based on my experience and reading, air cleaners are great to remove residual small dust particles from the air after the majority of dust and chips have been collected by a dust collector. Since the Powermatic 1250 is a HEPA filtered air cleaner, I think it would work great for that function; the end of the line for dust collection. One of the cons of all other air cleaners on the market is that they are not HEPA. As long as it isn't the primary dust collection method, it would likely do better than other air cleaners because of the HEPA filter.
Randy

Offline air19

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2020, 03:11 PM »
@air19 I received mine today from Axminster here in the UK so it may be different from US models. The fan is very quiet but there's also a buzzing sort of noise coming from maybe some electronics. Does yours make this noise too? Just trying to determine if it is normal before I contact the manufacturer.

No buzz with mine.  Just the quiet sound of the air movement.  I run it on medium or high and it's quiet. 


Offline simonh

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2020, 03:50 PM »
@air19 I made a little video of the sound mine makes: https://tinyurl.com/srvpzdx

@grbmds It's an electrostatic fan rather than a HEPA filter.
-Simon

Offline air19

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2020, 07:44 PM »
Can't access your sound video.  There are many promotional videos of this Powermatic air filter on Youtube.  Listen to these, and call them to get this rectified. 

Offline Oldguard

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2020, 02:18 AM »
I have also bought one of these from Axminster. I have contacted them about the buzzing sound and am waiting to hear back.

Offline simonh

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2020, 04:33 AM »
Thanks for the responses.

I've listened to the other videos and people like Woodwhisper (who says they are so quiet you can film with them) and some of the Guild members who have them. Everyone, states they are very quiet.

I had read the Powermatic manual online before buying, and I've noticed there's a big difference between the US and European product. In the US the product schematic shows a BLDC fan (brushless DC), in the EU the product there's an AC fan and the schematic shows a capacitor, presumably to control fan speed.

I think we are getting two products using different fan technology and that is the problem.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 04:55 AM by simonh »
-Simon

Offline grbmds

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2020, 08:50 AM »
@simonh My mistake. I remember reading about it when first released. The information I saw indicated it was HEPA rated. Since it isn't I'd want to see specs on what percent of particles to .1 micron is takes out of the air. It may be only marginally better than other air cleaners on the market. Anyway, I doubt it's designed to be the first line of defense against dust in the shop; only secondary to a dust collector or vac.
Randy

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2020, 11:36 AM »
I can’t figure out why it’s so expensive. Other than the $110 filter screen it’s just a variable speed fan and a cowling/stand. Maybe there is more to it?

Offline usernumber1

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2020, 11:43 AM »
there's nothing really special except for marketing and branding

you can hear how noisy it is at this timestamp
https://youtu.be/UjPTH95e1RI?t=180  - comments are turned off LOL

fancy production values


Offline simonh

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2020, 01:47 PM »
I can’t figure out why it’s so expensive. Other than the $110 filter screen it’s just a variable speed fan and a cowling/stand. Maybe there is more to it?

It uses an air-ioniser to charge the particles and filter screen with the opposite charge so they are attracted. Nicely built, good size fan, concept seemed to work well. Anyway, it's on its way back due to the buzz.
-Simon

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2020, 05:18 PM »
@simonh. I realize yours was a different voltage than that supplied in the states, but did the thing buzz in all three speeds?

Offline kross

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2020, 02:29 PM »
@simonh
Hi, I bought one of these from axminster a couple of weeks ago. It was faulty, kept switching itself off, and on again, at random (and in so doing cancelling the timer setting) . Axminster sent me a replacement, which had the same fault, and I've just received a third one which also has the same fault. I assume everyone here who owns one of these hasn't experienced anything like this? I guess I'm just going to have to get a refund, which is a huge shame - this sounded an ideal solution to my dust problems. All three machines sounded exactly like your youtube recording - which was also a bit of a disappointment to me, after all the adverts saying how "silent" they are!
All three came with a 2 pin plug, by the way, and no adaptor for the uk. I had to ask axminster to send me an adaptor for the first machine I bought - after that they they seemed to cotton on, and sent an adaptor separately with each replacement machine. There seems to be something odd about this whole deal.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2020, 02:40 PM »
Three times not a charm here.

Surprised to hear that the vendor did not even try out the third one to make sure it worked (knowing the history of this particular transaction) before shipping it out.  :o

Offline kross

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2020, 02:45 PM »
Three times not a charm here.

Surprised to hear that the vendor did not even try out the third one to make sure it worked (knowing the history of this particular transaction) before shipping it out.  :o

You would think so wouldn't you! Guess they're not too bothered!

Offline Keats0071

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2021, 04:33 AM »
@air19 I received mine today from Axminster here in the UK so it may be different from US models. The fan is very quiet but there's also a buzzing sort of noise coming from maybe some electronics. Does yours make this noise too? Just trying to determine if it is normal before I contact the manufacturer.
Just received mine from Axminster UK and there is a definite annoying buzzing coming from the unit. I’d probably live with it if it didn’t cost £500! Waiting on Axminster to get to me.

No buzz with mine.  Just the quiet sound of the air movement.  I run it on medium or high and it's quiet.

Offline mkasdin

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2021, 09:32 AM »
Just curious if anyone has one of these?  Trying to do what I can to handle the dust we all make.

Powermatic PM1250
there was an article done by Fine woodworking? About fan filtration, where they compared several models against a homemade box fan. If you google fan filter shootout or dust fan comparison etc., something along those lines you might find the article. It was a very thorough and analytical 🧐 comparison.

Offline mkasdin

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2021, 12:52 AM »

Offline grbmds

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2021, 12:04 PM »
I may have misunderstood the Wood Magazine results but, regardless of which air cleaner filtered the most air quickest, they should have been looking a size of particle as a factor also. They did raise this issue but really didn't apply it to the cleaners they tested. I don't know how good the Powermatic 1250 really is, but it is a HEPA filtered unit. As far as I know, the others tested are not equipped with HEPA filters. I'm sure I don't know everything about dust collection but I do know that air cleaners are a supplemental method of dust collection, only truly effective if adequate dust collection is used at the source. The reason I have thought of replacing a 25 year old JDS air cleaner with the Powermatic is specifically because my JDS doesn't have HEPA filters available (at least not economically). In addition to a HEPA cyclone and HEPA vac, I have the JDS unit and also most times wear an air powered mask. Having a HEPA air cleaner would seem to be the ultimate even though I get very little dust on anything in my shop right now. So, for me, it's not really only how much air is moved, it's more importantly about what size particles are removed.
Randy

Offline TXFIVEO

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2021, 07:48 PM »
What do you guys recommend for a 1200 sq ft shop?  I need to get an air filtration setup quick for my new shop.  The Rikon ceiling unit worked great for a two car garage, but by tripling the square footage I’m afraid I need something with more “umph.”  Recommendations?

Offline grbmds

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2021, 12:21 AM »
What do you guys recommend for a 1200 sq ft shop?  I need to get an air filtration setup quick for my new shop.  The Rikon ceiling unit worked great for a two car garage, but by tripling the square footage I’m afraid I need something with more “umph.”  Recommendations?

When I bought mine, the recommendation was a unit that will exchange the air 6-7 times an hour. You can calculate the cubic feet in your shop by multiplying width X length X height or your 1200 square foot number times the height from floor to ceiling. If you have an 8' ceiling - 9600 cubic feet - 960 CFM (I think should do it.) Most larger units will move more air and thus exchange the air more often which is a good thing.
Randy

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Powermatic PM1250 Air Cleaner
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2021, 09:20 PM »
What do you guys recommend for a 1200 sq ft shop?  I need to get an air filtration setup quick for my new shop.  The Rikon ceiling unit worked great for a two car garage, but by tripling the square footage I’m afraid I need something with more “umph.”  Recommendations?

Do you have time to build one? Its performance can be as good as that of the commercial ones.

Get a second-hand furnace blower (typically rated1200 - 1800 cfm, $50US or less, or free if you know someone who is replacing their furnace), and build a box to house it. I designed mine for use with 4 filters (pre-filter washable nylon (unrated) and merv 11; main filters two merv 11). Two to three should be fine. A friend of mine built his too (strapped to the ceiling), but uses only one filter and no pre-filter, and still finds it good enough.

For my low ceiling, double garage, the ACH (air changes per hour) is about 20. The min. ACH for a shop should be 6 according to Wood magazine. I buy the merv 11 filters in a pack of 6, costing under $10 Cdn per filter. The first filter (nylon) is washed, the next two replaced. The last one (still relatively clean) is moved to the front for reuse as one of the pre-filters and replaced in the next cycle.

The consumable cost is about $40 a year, more if the shop sees frequent uses, as was the case in the past pandemic year. I have a timer, and leave the unit on for another 30 mins after the shop is shut down.

Assuming your shop is 9' high, and the blower is 1800 cfm, the ACH for you would be around 10, still exceeding the minimum. Of course, you can build two, probably positioned and mounted. (Edit: Noticed that you already have a Rikon, so you only need to build one.)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 09:52 PM by ChuckM »