I've been using a Dewalt jobsite table saw and I'm interested in upgrading. I used to have a bigger craftsman but I was moving during the pandemic and got rid of some things as I didn't have space for a shop. My reasons for upgrading are for more capacity, ease of use, being able to use add ons and whatnot that a better saw can use. While money isn't necessarily a limiting factor, I don't want to overspend. I build mostly furniture. I am limited to 110v as a don't have 220 right now. I have also been considering a table saw with a router table attached. I have never had a router table but I see the benefits of not having to everything free hand. Are there cons to having a router table on the same table? If it makes any difference, I will probably be getting a track saw in the near future, when it's available again. I loved my TS55 and will probably get the TS75 because I do slab work regularly and the extra size seems helpful. I have a grizzly jointer that I'm pretty happy with but I'm open to anything. Any recommendations would be highly appreciated.

I was a raw beginner when I bought my first table saw 26 years ago.  I still have it.

The one thing I knew I wanted was a 48”+ fence.  The thought of doing math to come up with the indirect measurement of a piece of plywood made my mind spin. 

To this day, I am happy I insisted on the full sized fence. 

I do wish it had a splitter, the after market gadgets are not so nice. 

I got the track saw to augment the table saw.  I use it to cut pieces to manageable sizes to carry to the basement shop.  Over time, I found that I was making finish size cuts with the track saw, but whenever I need to make repeated cuts the same size, I revert to using the table saw. 

If I were setting up shop, my first purchase would be a table saw. 

If I needed a totally mobile workshop, I think I would use a track saw, a router and a miter saw. 

Well the natural next step up from a job site saw is a contractors saw which can be bought or outfitted with a Biesmeyer T style fence with either a 36” or 52” capacity (approximate). The next step up from there are cabinet saws which have similar fence options. Many years ago my first decent table saw was a Delta Contractors saw. After five or six years I upgraded to a Delta Unisaw (cabinet saw) with a 52” fence. After twenty plus years with that saw I upgraded to a Sawstop PCS with a 52” fence four or five years ago. I consider this a lifetime saw. I would be surprised if this is not my last table saw. It’s a great saw and if you see yourself keeping this next saw for many years to come it would seem a shame to pass up the safety tech (in my opinion!).

As far as router tables integrated into table saw tops are concerned there are so many considerations. Many love them because they save space but they require sharing table top real estate that can require moving fences and undoing a particular setup to utilize the saw or vice versa. It just requires the user to be organized with their workflow. Others would never give up their dedicated router tables. Next consideration is whether you put the router insert on the right or left of the saw. Right is most common because you can work within the original footprint of the saw saving space. This does cause you to feed the router from what would normally be the outfeed side of the saw working back toward the infeed. It also makes it difficult to add as much custom cabinetry on the right and can impede the use of top of table dust collection devices. Left side works too but it requires making the saw wider which can be great if you have the space. This is a big subject with many pros and cons to consider and this is just a small sampling. I hope that this helps.

Buy a good cabinet saw with 30" rails.  With that and a good rail saw you can build anything to very high standards.  The fact that one can do good work with less depends on how much time you are willing to spend fiddling to get results.

I would say that a lot of this is determined by the amount of space you have available and what it is you are going to be making. The recommendations would change accordingly. A cabinet shop would have far different needs than a guy making cutting boards or jewelry boxes. Things that would be essential to one are not so important to the others.
I don't think a table saw needs to be huge. That's where I would use a track saw. Space is a consideration with both, but they are still different.

0,
It will be mostly cocktail and end tables, bookshelves, slab tables(which would use the track saw more often than not). That would probably cover a lot of it with some larger furniture pieces on occasion.

Quote from: Michael Kellough on February 21, 2023, 05:11 PM

Table saw, bigger than a Dewalt, maybe with a router table, that runs on 110 volts.

That’s a good start, but I think you need to define a few more parameters.

Sure, what would you like to know?

Portable or stationary? Sawstop or not? Quality/price range?

Get a Sawstop, get the biggest one you have space for that you can afford.  They're good saws and the safety is worth the cost.

I agree.  I got a Sawstop PCS a few years ago and am very happy with it.   It is the third table saw I owned.

Bob

Quote from: Packard on February 22, 2023, 09:55 AM

I mounted my powerful Hitachi router in my table saw.  I cannot say I am happy with this.  I purchased an aluminum mounting plate (I forget from where).  With the Hitachi mounted, I cannot remove it by lifting the router through the hole I cut.  So mounting new router cutters involves climbing under the table.  Awkward. 

I have a few options.  I could mount my Porter-Cable 690 (not as powerful, but probably adequate).  The plate will accept the P-C router.

I could cut a larger opening and make a new plate from 1/4” plexi that I have. 

I could mount the Hitachi in a free standing station with easier access.

My point being, having the router can be good or bad, depending on how it was set up.  Adjusting the height is not a problem for me, just cutter changes.

Have you removed the handles? Or is the router rotated on the plate causing it to extend beyond the plates edge?

I will take another look to see if the handles are removable.  I know I checked it once, but I don’t remember anything about it.

This is a 25 year old Hitachi.  When I got it, it was far more powerful than others out there and was useful on cope and stick with center panels that had shaped edges.  I only use Shaker cabinets now, so the power requirements are less. 

I have a blue anodized metal plate for mounting.  I have no idea where I got it and I don’t know where to get new center inserts.  So. I may retire it anyway. 

My thought originally was that I could attach the fence to the saw’s fence, but once I added dust control, that was no longer feasible. 

I used to have it mounted directly onto a piece of plywood (I reduced the thickness in the center to mount the base).  That was far more convenient to use.  And it was transportable.  I might revert to that in the future.

I have a Delta Contractors’ II saw with a 48” fence.  I would loathe to move it because it is almost 8 feet wide. 

If you opt for the 48” + fence (and I highly recommend that you do) moving the saw will happen infrequently and mostly under duress.

You will likely add an out feed table.  Mine is independent of the saw, but would have to be moved also.  Add dust collection and the moving become even more daunting.

I don’t remember if anyone mentioned it, but a cabinet saw is easier to hook up to dust collection and does a better job.

As an aside, my heating oil delivery vendor sells a maintenance contract on the oil burner.  The service man said I would have to do something about the dust or they would not renew the contract. I added a Grizzly unit.  But whatever you add, will make moving the saw more onerous.

But if you need a 33” wide board, you have to go with math.  So you have to set the fence to 15”, but add (or is it subtract?) 1/8” for the blade thickness.  Oh, and you want a clean cut on bot sides.  So you have to add another 1/4” and take a 1/8” slice against the fence which is certain to kick back.

So, yeah, you can get it done with a 30” fence, but not much fun, and you will kick yourself each time you subtracted when you should have added.

If arithmetic is down your alley, sure, the smaller fence.  I would not do that unless I had to throw the saw in the back of my truck every day.

If you have both a table saw and a track saw, then the smaller fence could make sense.

I've been using a Dewalt jobsite table saw and I'm interested in upgrading. I used to have a bigger craftsman but I was moving during the pandemic and got rid of some things as I didn't have space for a shop. My reasons for upgrading are for more capacity, ease of use, being able to use add ons and whatnot that a better saw can use. While money isn't necessarily a limiting factor, I don't want to overspend. I build mostly furniture. I am limited to 110v as a don't have 220 right now. I have also been considering a table saw with a router table attached. I have never had a router table but I see the benefits of not having to everything free hand. Are there cons to having a router table on the same table? If it makes any difference, I will probably be getting a track saw in the near future, when it's available again. I loved my TS55 and will probably get the TS75 because I do slab work regularly and the extra size seems helpful. I have a grizzly jointer that I'm pretty happy with but I'm open to anything. Any recommendations would be highly appreciated.

I've been getting a lot of emails from Harvey about their Alpha Line of Cabinet Saws and they  are awesome.  My buddy went out to theire showroom and looked at them very closly.  He spoke with the main guy there who claimed "Harvey has been building saws and slapping labels on them for other companies.  He told my buddy that his current lineup has all the good designs of other saw brands and designed the best ideas into his Table saw Line.  My buddy is an engineer and he said that they are really well engineered tablesaws.  He currently owns a 15 year old Ridged and will probably pick one up after he gets permission from "the war department" who is not quite sure she wants to part with the money :-)

My opinion is that you have 2 (possibly 3) options. SawStop, vintage or possibly Harvey. I would rather track down and rebuild a Delta Unisaw from the 40s through the early 70s than buy any new saw made today with the exception of SawStop. The Harvey looks okay, but I haven't had hands on one, and many of the images on their web site aren't photos...they're renderings from technical drawings.

I also agree with CRG on the issue of table saw size. In fact, I think I could get by with 24" capacity, but have 36". Anything larger than that, I'm probably going to use a track saw, even if I had the table saw capacity.

I have the SawStop PCS. It's a fine saw and the safety feature is reassuring. I also have a vintage Craftsman that I rebuilt. I would be just as happy with that as my only table saw.

I have a saw that does not have a retracting splitter. It is the one thing I would like.

Splitters are mandated on all current production machines.

I understand the nostalgia about older machines, but in my opinion, buying a machine without the splitter is a mistake. 

It is probably a mistake too, to buy a machine without the hot dog stopping technology.  Saw Stop is the leader in that field, and their saws are supposed to be excellent even if you ignore the Saw Stop technology.

If I were in the market for a table saw, I would buy a current production Saw Stop with a 48” + fence.  If my finances allow it, I would get the cabinet saw for the improved dust collection.

I have a saw that does not have a retracting splitter. It is the one thing I would like.

Splitters are mandated on all current production machines.

I understand the nostalgia about older machines, but in my opinion, buying a machine without the splitter is a mistake. 

It is probably a mistake too, to buy a machine without the hot dog stopping technology.  Saw Stop is the leader in that field, and their saws are supposed to be excellent even if you ignore the Saw Stop technology.

If I were in the market for a table saw, I would buy a current production Saw Stop with a 48” + fence.  If my finances allow it, I would get the cabinet saw for the improved dust collection.

I don't favor older machines for nostalgic reasons, they are built heavier and to tighter tolerances. If some company was building quality machines today (other than SawStop) I would be just as enthusiastic about them.

It's a lot easier to add a splitter to a Unisaw than it is to make a functional saw out of the currently available crop.

All that said, if it's in the budget, a SawStop is the best option today. Quality saw and superb safety feature. 

SawStops are great, I have worked with several different models of them, but there is one glaring problem with them. I have never heard anyone ever mention it, which I find weird. I grumble under my breath every time I have to change the blade. The bosses that the screws of the throat-plate bear against could not possibly be in a worse place.
Anyone who has ever used a PowerMatic 66 will know exactly what I mean. The way you reach into the opening to spin the nut off of the arbor allows you to kind of cup your fingers under it as you go.
Try that with the SawStop and you will feel it immediately. That stupid lump of cast iron is right it the way.

Digging that darn nut out of the dust collection hose gets old pretty fast.

Knowing the risk (and trouble) of dropping the arbor nut, I am always careful, using both hands where needed, when I change the saw blade. So I have a 100% perfect track record of never dropping the nut or the flange with any of the three saws I've ever owned. Touch wood, just like holding the same perfect record of driving -- soon for half a century -- without any incidents.

I have never used the PowerMatic. so I don't how more challenging it is with the SawStop (ICS or PCS which I'm fully familiar with).

Some people put a wire net/mesh over the hose before loosening the nut and flange while some others seem to like this:

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2021/02/04/workshop-tip-tired-of-dropping-your-arbor-nut-add-a-magnet

It is probably a mistake too, to buy a machine without the hot dog stopping technology.  Saw Stop is the leader in that field, and their saws are supposed to be excellent even if you ignore the Saw Stop technology.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years with hot dog technology. I asked why the new battery-powered Festool CSC didn't have it and was told that it wouldn't work with no earth connection on a battery-powered saw. So, it seems there are some limitations and given the contractors' market is heading battery everything... ?

Also, in the industrial line, we now have the likes of Altendorf with big sliding table saws that have cameras that detect hand movement and retract the blades without damage.

My DeWalt Contractors’ II saw has a funnel-like pan that connects to the 4” dust extraction hose. 

Years ago, I spent about 3 hours going through the dust, only to find that the nut only made it to the lowest section of the hose.

After that, I cut a piece of 1/4” x 1/4” (or maybe 3/8” x 3/8”) wire mesh meant for some sort of fencing.  I got it at Lowes in a small roll.  I cut it to fit over the tray. 

It does not interfere with the dust collection, and the saw blade nut is too large to fall through the openings.  I think even a 1/2” x 1/2” would work.

I just did the math.  Half inch squares would have a diagonal of 0.707”.  If the size of the nut across the flats is more than 0.707”, that would work also.

The hex shaped chicken wire will not. 

Funny thing though.  I have not dropped the nut since installing the mesh about 23 years ago. 

I dropped it twice last Saturday and neither time did it go down the hose, but that really is a thing. "Finding" it is not so bad, you know where it is, when it's down the hose. You just have to crawl under the outfeed table an disconnect the hose. This time, I heard it the metal bottom, so I knew it wasn't in the hose.
 The dust collection is pretty decent, because of the trough thing, so digging in the dust isn't so bad. Our old PowerMatics would get neglected once in a while and the dust would get so deep inside that it would fall out on the floor, when the door was opened. I never dropped the nut or flange washer in those though.

I dropped it twice last Saturday and neither time did it go down the hose, but that really is a thing. "Finding" it is not so bad, you know where it is, when it's down the hose. You just have to crawl under the outfeed table an disconnect the hose. This time, I heard it the metal bottom, so I knew it wasn't in the hose.
 The dust collection is pretty decent, because of the trough thing, so digging in the dust isn't so bad. Our old PowerMatics would get neglected once in a while and the dust would get so deep inside that it would fall out on the floor, when the door was opened. I never dropped the nut or flange washer in those though.

Maybe have one of these magnetic pickup tools kicking around??
https://www.amazon.com/flexible-magnetic-pickup-tool/s?k=flexible+magnetic+pickup+tool