Author Topic: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller  (Read 14549 times)

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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4222
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2019, 10:51 AM »
@JimH2  wondering if “he was looking for a reason to not justify returning it” refers to me and what it means in either case. A little too double negative.

I did read about the machine at the Mafell forum and ordered the kit despite the overall ambivalence about the DDF 40 I found there. I had an immediate use for it and if the tool had lived long enough to complete the task I’d have kept it.

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Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 785
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2019, 02:57 PM »
@JimH I understand what you’re saying, and just want to confirm, that I have been a Mafell fan for a long time, still am, and own Mafell tools.

I have heard similar though, regarding the latest machine. The switch issue, and the plunging isn’t a great experience are what quite a few reports suggest.
I was hoping the machine would offer more than just the shelf pin function, over the dowelling. As I’m not a big fan of dowel joints, and if the truth were known, I don’t think some of my customers would be.
It seems though, that even the shelf pin function is only at it’s best, when used with the optional jig?
I can’t help thinking that this machine was designed to take sales away from the Domino. There’s no comparison though (in my opinion) The Domino is unique in many ways.

I know people that own the original doweler, and they have never that I know of, had problems.

My next Mafell will be either a P1, as I have lots of use for one, or an Erika for the same reasons. [wink]

« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 04:06 PM by Jiggy Joiner »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4222
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2019, 08:31 PM »
I called Timberwolf about my DDF 40 that stopped running. Spoke with Jeff. He was surprised by the failure and apologized. There is no problem returning the tool for a refund. He promptly emailed a pre-paid FedEx shipping label.

Jeff was very pleasant to deal with and I’ll probably buy another Mafell shortly.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4222
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2019, 11:35 PM »
After the DDF 40 died I turned to the Domino 500 to join particle board panels. In addition to finishing the project I wanted to compare ease of use and productivity of the DDF 40 and Domino. Everything about using the doweler was easy, except the actual drilling of dual 8mm holes.

The included guides allowed me to position the Duo without measuring so I worked the same way with the Domino whereas I usually mark positions of tenons. To be fair I used the narrow mortise setting. I even used raw ended Dominos instead of beveling the ends like I’d planned.

The Domino was significantly more productive. The panels went together almost as easily as with dowels. I expect if I’d beveled the tenons it would have been equally easy. The tight mortises did not present an alignment issue but some thanks goes to the less softness of particle board.

All in all I’m glad to have had the chance to work with the machine but I’m relieved that it died and I’ll get a refund. I can use the money for a different Mafell that will be more useful.

One last footnote, maybe it wasn’t just be the switch that failed. It might be another component that possibly prevented the bits from running at the full 8000 rpm. The Domino is much louder than the DDF 40 was...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 09:12 AM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 785
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2019, 04:19 AM »
Glad you’re getting sorted Michael but, a shame it didn’t work out. The one thing that regularly gets mentioned in the reviews I’ve read, is the difficulty in plunging, with one describing the use of the tool as hard work?

This was never the case with the original machine, so it seems to be something in the design that causes this.
Maybe the drill bits are poor design but, the fact that the later machine has a lot less speed than the original, suggests a power issue?

I did read somewhere that these machines are all hand built by one person, so I’d imagine the build quality is pretty consistent.
A tool with this sort of pedigree, and price, should not be difficult to operate or plunge, which it clearly is.
Some have said, they were told they were using the wrong technique, and then adopted the so called right technique, still found the machine hard to plunge? A few reviewer suggested quick hard pushes were the way to go?

I think some people might overlook any shortcomings, because it is a Mafell tool, I personally wouldn’t. If it isn’t great, regardless of who makes it, people should be honest.
Anyway, as always, these are just my opinions based on what I hear and read.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2685
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2019, 05:30 AM »
As a first time Mafell buyer with the DDF, I have conflicting emotions.

On the disappointment side, the tool takes an inordinate amount of force even in soft wood like pine. I normally build with oak or walnut, so I am worried about how usable the tool will be.

On the positive side, the tool is amazingly precise, well built, and equipped with excellent accessories. It really complements my two Domino machines. Also positive is the helpful attitude of the Timberwolf staff..

For now, I have decided to keep the machine for testing with oak and walnut. I also bought some 10mm bits I want to try. If I can use the machine with those wood types and the 10mm bit, I’ll keep it.
Birdhunter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 785
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2019, 06:08 AM »
@Birdhunter  Again your post more or less sums up what I've read and heard from other owners of the machine.

I hope yours works out for you though.

Offline PatR

  • Posts: 190
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2019, 08:05 AM »


After using the DDF, I wish Festool would offer the pin locators on the Dominos instead of the flappers.

The original Domino did indeed have the same (almost) metal pin locators as the Mafell. It just that they used them in contravention of the Mafell Patent and were taken to court. They lost.

That is why the new Domino's have the awful flappers and why I will never ever get rid of my original Domino with its excellent, but illegal, metal pins!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 08:18 AM by PatR »

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 25
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2019, 08:21 AM »
Quote
I will never ever get rid of my original Domino with its excellent, but illegal, metal pins!

Could you share a picture of your Domino with metal pins?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 785
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2019, 08:46 AM »
The original pin type were better but, when I bought a later Domino with the paddles, I never had or have issues with them. I prefer the pins given the choice but, the paddles work fine for me also.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4222
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2019, 09:16 AM »
My Domino is the first version with round pins just like the Duo.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6460
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #71 on: August 13, 2019, 10:48 AM »
Could you share a picture of your Domino with metal pins?


Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 439
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #72 on: August 13, 2019, 02:16 PM »
I often hear people talking about the legendary original domino with pins and how much better it was.

I have one of the originals and find it a PITA sometimes because the pins get hooked up on mortises and grooves etc.

I have never used one with paddles, what is so bad about them?

Thanks, Doug

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 785
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #73 on: August 13, 2019, 04:52 PM »
I have an old one with pins Doug, and the later paddle type, I got on fine with pin version but, they can as you say snag up. The pins are probably more durable than the paddles being metal but, I get on fine with the later paddle type machine just fine.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6460
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #74 on: August 13, 2019, 11:47 PM »
Well here’s a challenge.

I have the paddle version of the DF 500 and I’ve no complaints.

My knee-jerk reaction is that using the pin version to go from mortise to mortise will introduce more variability in the location of the Dominos than if a long aluminum/steel scale was introduced and the centers of each mortise were marked and machined accordingly.

My money’s on the scale and center lines. I’ll give you the edge to edge method is faster, but then you’re forced to open up your mortise width.  [popcorn] [popcorn]
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 11:52 PM by Cheese »

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2685
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2019, 06:02 AM »
I am a long time Domino user (both models). I always use the narrow and wide technique on joining long boards.

I tried the DDF40 on joining 48” long boards using just the machine and its accessory (little plastic tabs).

The boards joined perfectly.

I’m keeping my 2 Domino machines, but I’m sold on the DDF40 as a very specialized machine.

I’ll view the significant push effort as a body building exercise.
Birdhunter

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2685
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
DDF40 Test Results
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2019, 07:39 AM »
I ordered a pair of 10mm bits for my new DDF40.

I did a test with the machine plugged into my Festool vac to take advantage of AutoStart.

The first test was drilling into a pine 2X4. the force required was about the same as with the 8mm bits. I then connected the DDF into the wall socket. There was a palpable feel that less pressure was required. I then tested the machine with quarter sawn white oak. The pressure required was not as excessive as I had felt in the past.

My testing was FAR from scientific! But, I think I will stick with plugging the DDF40 into the wall and not into the Festool vac.
Birdhunter

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4222
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2019, 10:05 AM »
My DDF40 was plugged directly into a wall socket.

I used the Domino 500 to join 30” panels (at the tight setting with 5mm tenons) using the onboard pins and the wings and the panels joined fine but the wood was just particle board. If working with real would I’d use the medium width setting for most of one of the boards.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1837
Re: DDF40 Test Results
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2019, 11:02 AM »
I then connected the DDF into the wall socket. There was a palpable feel that less pressure was required.
I can't imagine it making any difference for a 900W tool.
Perhaps it's poor bit design.
What are the dimensions of Mafell boring bits?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 11:31 AM by Svar »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4222
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2019, 11:18 AM »
Bits are 55mm long, have an 8mm shank with a flat. The 5mm CMT bits I bought (about $9 $11 each at routerbitworld) are only around 53.5mm long. The machine’s socket is round with a set screw in the middle.

Wonder is the flat would disallow the bits to be used in a router collet?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 12:18 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1837
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #80 on: August 14, 2019, 11:22 AM »
Bits are 55mm long, have an 8mm shank with a flat. The 5mm CMT bits I bought (about $9 each at routerbitworld) are only around 53.5mm long. The machine’s socket is round with a set screw in the middle.
Wonder is the flat would disallow the bits to be used in a router collet?
Thanks.
I've used bits with shank flat in a router with no ill effects. I used it with 1/2" to 10 mm reducer sleeve.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4222
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #81 on: August 14, 2019, 08:22 PM »
I called Timberwolf about my DDF 40 that stopped running. Spoke with Jeff. He was surprised by the failure and apologized. There is no problem returning the tool for a refund. He promptly emailed a pre-paid FedEx shipping label.

Jeff was very pleasant to deal with and I’ll probably buy another Mafell shortly.

Returned the tool in the same packing it arrived in, a strong triple wall cardboard box and bubble wrap surrounding the dressy Mafell cardboard carton that held the Mafell Sys 2, and the special foam wedge that prevents plunge movement of the machine. Despite all that the jostling of transit was apparently therapeutic.

“We received your Mafell DDF 40 Duo Dowel System back today.  It was able to turn on when I plugged it in, but there was some noticeable fluctuation in the motor.  I opened up the motor and did not notice anything unusual—except the spring that pushes in one of the carbon brushes was slightly out of place.  When I moved it back to its proper place the machine sounds perfect. I’ll keep the machine here in Chicago as a demo—we could always use another for walk-ins!“


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 785
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2019, 04:10 AM »
Not sure what to make of that?
If it wasn’t working correctly out of the box, it’s not fit for purpose?
If you had removed the cover and inspected the brushes, would it have voided your warranty, or maybe not as brushes are a consumable.

Or are they saying, it’s all good now, do you want it back?
Maybe a better approach would be to just inform you that they’d received it?

I picked one up to look at closely in a shop yesterday. There was a bench close by, so I just tried the plunging action with the machine switched off. It seemed very easy so, I’ve formed the opinion that the difficulty plunging, has to be bit design, or lack of power/speed, or both?

Looks very well made as you’d expect but, I think the body of the machine is too thick. I have quite big hands but, thought that a slimmer body, would be more comfortable, and make plunging easier? Which is how the previous model was.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4222
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2019, 12:31 PM »
@Jiggy Joiner  it would have been an easy fix (as it turns out) but by the time the unresponsiveness of the switch became intolerable I’d already decided the tool wasn’t going to be useful enough (for what I do) to keep it so I didn’t want to risk the refund by messing with it.

I took Jeff’s response to be It was a very minor misfit that caused no damage and it’s all good now so do you want it back?


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 785
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #84 on: August 15, 2019, 01:52 PM »
@Michael Kellough That’s fair enough I guess.
At least you followed protocol, they get the machine back, and you got your money back.


Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1183
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2019, 04:29 PM »
I've had mine about month and have only used it a couple of times.  I haven't had any issues with the plunge being difficult and I was plunging into plywood.  It does have a qualify look and feel to it.  It's a fine addition to the workshop. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router and jig saw plates.  Sawstop contractor.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2685
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #86 on: September 04, 2019, 09:02 PM »
I’ve been using my DDF about a month and the plunge effort is definitely easier. I cannot explain why this would happen, but it has.
Birdhunter

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1183
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #87 on: September 04, 2019, 09:10 PM »
The guy at Timberwolf told me to expect that exact thing. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router and jig saw plates.  Sawstop contractor.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 582
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2019, 11:40 PM »
So I'm planning to buy the DDF but part of me has had hesitation since the 110V model is new.  Don't really want SN 000004.  Part of me has considered getting the 230V version as those may have more testing/debug time.  I'm not sure if it changes some of the performance or not.

Certainly a bit concerning if folks have had issues with it, it's not like there will be that many of them around.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 785
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #89 on: September 05, 2019, 04:19 AM »
@ DeformedTree I don't think you have any worries with Mafell, my experiences with them have all been positive, bearing in mind that they are quite a small company with limited outlets.
They aren't fast at answering email but, neither are Festool in my experience, in fact I have at least two unanswered emails to Festool.
Timber Wolf seem a decent dealer, so again you should be fine.

As for 110v V 240v, all I can say is, I own, and have owned in the past many tools in 110v for our mobile and site work, and a lot of 240v. I have quite a few tools that are identical in both voltage. I have found that the many show the 240v to be more powerful/faster. Running certain tools side by side it's quite noticeable, however, that may be, because over here we use step down transformers, and obviously the length of an extension lead would also have an effect.

I have run a 110v mitre saw against an equivalent 240v version, angle grinders, table saws, etc, and the 240v's seem faster? Some of the smaller tools, like sanders etc, don't seem any different, or at least not noticeable. The only tool I can't tell any difference with are the Festool CTM 26's, they sound and seem to perform the same in both voltage.

I haven't done any scientific tests but, you can hear and feel the 240v tools are running faster.
Could well be, and probably is a different story on your side, as you don't need transformers.