Author Topic: Need some hinge help  (Read 11559 times)

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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1389
Need some hinge help
« on: October 30, 2007, 11:24 AM »
I am starting a fairly big project for me, refacing all our kitchen cabinets, about 40 or so doors.  They are face frame carcases so I'm going to use 35mm hinges for the new doors with a 3/8 overlay.  The existing doors are currently that size.  I was looking at the Blum catalogue and their installation tool was $325 so I was wondering what other installation jigs are out there or is it this jig worth the expense given the number of doors.  If I end up doing the entire house, I would have about 60-70 doors to do.  What other hinges besides Blum do you recommend? 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

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Offline Eli

  • Posts: 2503
  • A Yankee in Kangaroo Court
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2007, 03:33 PM »
The Blum ecojig was recommended in another thread (I think Overtime's cabinet thread?). It's on my list, I have a similar set of projects coming up. I'd definitely get a jig for doing so many doors. The alternative is setting up a fence with stops on a drill press, or using the LR-SYS rail. Both seem to me more time consuming than drilling all three holes at once, like with the Blum rig. AFAIK, you should use an installation tool specific to the brand of hinges you're going to use. I've had Blum hinges before in my last house, for the extra money, I think they are worth it. Often, a lesser brand hinge gives you less adjustment after install.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline richard.selwyn

  • Posts: 635
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2007, 05:16 PM »
In England you can by a CMT hinge boring jig with a Blum insert - it should be available stateside.  I've not got one, but I do covet it.  Otherwise Veritas make some sort of jig, but its just a jig rather than a boring unit.  hope this helps.  good luck with all the doors.

Offline Jim McFarland

  • Posts: 87
  • MFTs provide excellent shade
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2007, 06:09 PM »
I have this one from Veritas/Lee Valley and it's fine to toss in the car/truck if you might do a couple of doors outside the shop.  I do use it (with a Vix bit) for hinge plate screw pre-drilling (much superior to the plastic templates available @ HD/Lowe's). I would not recommend it for drilling cups on 40+ doors.  I use a drill press at home in the shop.  I'd like to try the Blum recommended by Patrick/Overtime but tough to justify as I already have the Veritas jig, drill press and the LR32 hole drilling set (although I've never used the 35mm cup boring bit).
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
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Offline Overtime

  • Posts: 265
  • Eastern Iowa USA
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2007, 12:32 AM »
 Yep,  in my adventures of the concealed or 35mm euro hinges I came across the Blum stuff. It's all quality, from the hardware to the tools.  There are a couple of other major makers of similar hardware, like Hafele, Grass, Richelieu, Hettich and more. And some offer their own versions of hinge drilling templates/tools and systems.  The Blum door drilling jig (ecodrill) is a great tool and you won't be disappointed. 
   Whatever brand you chose be sure to select the correct hinge type and mounting plates for your new door set up. There is huge range of choices and applications. Make a sample door - mock up, and try a couple of hinges/mounting plate combinations to confirm it is what you want before you commit to 40 door's worth of hardware.  ;)   
   
 
Here is the best price for the ecodrill that I know of. And here is another  source for Blum products.

Good Luck with your project.
Patrick

Offline polarsea1

  • Posts: 294
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2007, 04:03 AM »
I drill mine with a homemade fence and flipstops on my drill press and it works fine but if I were going to be making 80 or so doors at one sitting I'd buy the Ecodrill. Marc Sommerfeld sells a knock off of the Blum jig on his website: Hinge Jig

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1389
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2007, 02:00 PM »
Thanks, guys.  Hey Patrick, that is a great price on that Ecodrill!  I don't mind spending $230+- but I was having a tough time swallowing $325.  Rockler has a pretty good supply of blum hinges so I will spend some time down there and buy a sample or two to try out before I order the main supply. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline Overtime

  • Posts: 265
  • Eastern Iowa USA
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2007, 01:49 AM »
 Wow that Summerfield jig is looking good Polarsea. It looks almost identical except the color. I would think ( guess ) it is the very same hole pattern as the ecodrill.  Boring size and locations are probably a perfect match for Blum's "Expando and Inserta" Clip Hinges. The price sure is nice, but I would call to verify before purchase.
    I used Blum's Clip - Insersta hinges with the ecodrill. And it worked out very well.  The Inserta hinge has 8mm dowels formed into the stamping of the hinge. The Expando has the plastic dowels with screws.

 As far as hinge prices go - Rockler and Woodcraft are on the very high end and only stock a very limited selection of the Blum line. They sell them with a mounting plate included. Good for a sample or two. But for a larger order the other sources will save some more bucks.    Learn what you can from the Blum      Concealed Hinge Brochure  page 10 shows these hinge mounting options.

Patrick

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1389
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2007, 09:57 PM »
On the Blum site, if you order quite a few (50+), you can get the price pretty cheap at $1.82.  Is it better to get the screw in's or the inserta's?  I plan on painting them rather than staining if that makes a diff.   
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline Overtime

  • Posts: 265
  • Eastern Iowa USA
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2007, 01:25 AM »
Screw on or Inserta ?   -  If you were to use the blum ecodrill jig it will drill the cup (35mm) and two (8mm) holes. They are spaced as specified.   If you used screw mounted hinges you will need the correct screws and plastic dowels for the 8mm holes. See page 80 of the concealed hinge brochure.  The inserta hinge has the 8mm dowels built in, no screws needed. Just press it in (not to be confused with "Press In" type hinge - you don't want them) then flip down the flap and the cup expands and locks. They can be removed easily also.
 If you end up using a blum "Compact" type hinge then screw mount is your only option. Also make sure Hole pattern matches your drilling jig.   
 
    I don't think the paint will be much of a problem. And you could drill after paint.
 
When ordering be sure to verify that all components will work together for your cabinets and doors, Drilling jig, Hinge hole pattern and Mounting plates.  Seek professional help  ;D   I have only limited knowledge of this stuff.   
   
Patrick

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1389
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2007, 09:05 PM »
Well, since they are going to be painted, I'm using poplar for the frames and mdf for the raised panels so I won't have a lot tied up if I screw one or two up.  I'm a big believer that a good way to learn is to try something and don't make the same mistake twice.   ;D  If I can make it down to Rockler this week, I'll get a couple of pair of the Insert type and the screw in type and see which works better for my application.  I also have a painting question that I'll ask in a new post.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline Jerry Work

  • Posts: 307
    • The Dovetail Joint
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2007, 09:14 PM »
Hi Howard,

Having the right jig to properly set door hinges is critical to achieving the quality outcome you seek.  In this case you said you need to build some 40 doors and the right jig is less than $10 a door.  Sounds like a bargain to me. 

As an example, I use Soss hidden hinges a lot as I like the quality feel and my customers really like the way they just disappear.  But, I would never think of installing those things without using the Soss supplied router template that is specific to each different size of Soss hinge.  If you are off even a little bit they simply will not fit or work right.  I am currently building a large bookcase door that will be hidden door into a "secret" room.  The bookcase door will weigh up to 400 pounds when fully loaded.  To carry that much weight and not sag requires quite a sturdy assembly and VERY LARGE hidden Soss hinges.  Four of them.  To fool the eye even more, the bookcase has an external face frame molding and the hinge witness line runs roughly up the middle of one of those moldings.  To get all four hinges to line up correctly and keep the witness line even on both sides requires precision that can only be achieved using a jig made for that purpose.  The cost of the hinge mortise jig is insignificant in terms of the overall cost and quality of the project.  I think you will come to a similar conclusion relative to your doors.  You and your family will live with the outcome of your work for as long as you stay in that house..........

Jerry

Thanks, guys.  Hey Patrick, that is a great price on that Ecodrill!  I don't mind spending $230+- but I was having a tough time swallowing $325.  Rockler has a pretty good supply of blum hinges so I will spend some time down there and buy a sample or two to try out before I order the main supply. 
The Dovetail Joint
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in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1389
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2007, 11:46 PM »
As luck would have it, I had to drive to Houston this afternoon and planned on getting to the Rockler store on the SW freeway before they closed.  I thought they closed at 8 but it was 7 and with Houston traffic... well... I'll have to go by at lunch tomorrow.  Jerry, I do agree with you that it would make sense that the best way of precisely locating any hinges is with the manufacturer's own jig.  It should make for perfect placement.  It looks like the Blum compact face frame 110 deg will work best in my application.  You never know, my next house may need lots of new cabinets and when that happens, I'll be ready!  ;D
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, ETS EC 150, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Domino, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5514
Re: Need some hinge help
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2007, 10:57 AM »
...It looks like the Blum compact face frame 110 deg will work best in my application.  You never know, my next house may need lots of new cabinets and when that happens, I'll be ready!  ;D

If you sell the jig when done with this project the cost per door goes way down.