Author Topic: More compressor Questions  (Read 9673 times)

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Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
More compressor Questions
« on: May 09, 2007, 08:30 AM »
I don't want to sidetrack the other compressor thread so I started this one.

I have a 3 gallon Craftsman compressor.  Cheap unit.  Bought it on sale for like $70-80 a couple of years ago.  Works great with a little brad nailer.  At some point this summer I'm going to have to replace a roof over my porch/sun porch.  A friend has a roofing nailer I can borrow.  How can I tell if this compressor can handle that  gun?  It came with a 25' coiled 1/4" hose and various accessories.  Can I switch to a longer 3/8" hose?  For the roofing, I'll probably need a 50-100' ft hose.

Thanks,
PaulD

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Offline Matthew Schenker

  • Posts: 2619
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2007, 08:36 AM »
bassman,
What a coincidence!

I just posted in the other compressor thread on the very same kind of question -- how much hose length can a compressor handle?

We might want to combine our discussions.  Let's see how the responses come in.

Matthew
FOG Designer and Creator

Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2007, 08:46 AM »
Doh!  :-[

Missed that post.  If you want to combine the threads, it's fine with me.  Or, I can repost the questions on your thread and delete this one if you prefer.

PaulD

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1936
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2007, 08:48 AM »
Hose length should not be an issue, but diameter might be. Just think of the hose as adding size to the tank, but, if it is too small in diameter it might impede the flow of air enough to compromise the performance of the tool. Most tools speciffy a minimum diameter for the hose although it is usually overstated a little. I think Mr. Swenson (Bob, that is) would be the best resource for this question.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Jerry Work

  • Posts: 307
    • The Dovetail Joint
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2007, 09:55 AM »
Hi Paul,

The issue will not be the length of the hose, it will be duty cycle on the compressor.  Air nailers don't require a lot of air per nail, but they will require a lot of air if you use it "bang, bang, bang" style driving lots of nails quickly the way you do installing plywood underlay material.  With conventional asphault roofing shingles you usually place a shingle sheet and hit it with three or four nails.  Place the next shingle sheet and hit it with three or four nails, etc.  The time between shingle sheets will likely be enough for the compressor to catch up.  Especially with a cheap oilless compressor, if they run all the time trying to keep up they will over heat and self destruct.  You want no more than a 40% on time if you want the compressor to survive the event.  Oil style compressors can run with a longer on time without damage or over heating, but only very good ones can survive more than about a 75% duty cycle.  The normal suggestion with air tools is to plug the unit in without an extension cord if you can and simply run more air hose to the gun site.

Jerry

I don't want to sidetrack the other compressor thread so I started this one.

I have a 3 gallon Craftsman compressor.  Cheap unit.  Bought it on sale for like $70-80 a couple of years ago.  Works great with a little brad nailer.  At some point this summer I'm going to have to replace a roof over my porch/sun porch.  A friend has a roofing nailer I can borrow.  How can I tell if this compressor can handle that  gun?  It came with a 25' coiled 1/4" hose and various accessories.  Can I switch to a longer 3/8" hose?  For the roofing, I'll probably need a 50-100' ft hose.

Thanks,
PaulD
The Dovetail Joint
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in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR. 
26 mi SW of Grants Pass on US 199, The Redwood Highway
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http://jerrywork.com
glwork@mac.com

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7393
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2007, 10:11 AM »
  
Jus to add to what Jerry said:
  Paul, Matthew, and anyone else, I'll add my 2 cents, once you get to or past 100' of hose you may have to increase the psi a little. Now I'm not a roofer, however, I have used a roofing nailer once or twice. As you know it takes a 3/8 hose, if you only have a finish, brad nailer or pinner, you may not want to invest too much money in a good 3/8" hose, as 1/4" is all you need for those tools. If you are going to get a framing nailer, or use the roofing nailer to replace more of your roof, then a good 3/8" is the right choice. A word about M-style couplers, there is the hose and the coupler size, coupler body and coupler plug as well as male and female threads to keep in mind when buying couplers. Sounds very complex, it's not here's a link to help you if you're not up to speed on all of this Link I only use 1/4" couplers, on both my 1/4 and 3/8 hoses.

  Alright, using the roofing nailer, you may have to tweak the psi to get the nails to "set" just right. And if a nail doesn't hit any wood when you shoot it, meaning the nail is in between two pieces sheeting, make sure you stop and remove that nail or it will work itself up over time and poke a hole through the shingle. It will be hard to tell if a nail missed, sometimes you can hear it, it will make a slightly different sound. And you will be tempted to really fly once you get the hang of shingling, but don't go too fast or you will over work your compressor. Your compressor really isn't made to be used for roofing, however, using it once won't kill it, just go easy.



« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 11:16 AM by Brice Burrell »

Offline Ted Miller

  • Posts: 235
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2007, 10:53 AM »
Paul, The 6 gallon pancakes are very good for simple gun use. The larger the tank the less the compressor has to cycle on. You can also plumb an extra aux tank to your pancake and have more tank for air then the compressor will cycle that much less. Most pancakes run up to 120 psi but you may only need 30-60 lbs for your guns depending on what you are fastening...
Miller's Wood Works

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1857
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2007, 08:22 PM »
Paul, The 6 gallon pancakes are very good for simple gun use. The larger the tank the less the compressor has to cycle on. You can also plumb an extra aux tank to your pancake and have more tank for air then the compressor will cycle that much less. Most pancakes run up to 120 psi but you may only need 30-60 lbs for your guns depending on what you are fastening...
adding a tank to the compressor means more recovery time.most compressor are design to run with the size of the tank that comes with .you can burn your compressor by let it run for a long time,all the time. that's what happen to my 6 gallons pc ,(air leak)i was working inside a house while the compressor was in the garage.i didn't hear it,smoke the whole garage!    bassman,you can try to use your compressor,but if it keeps on running,and all you get is about 8-10 nails and have to wait to recover,than you may want to get a more powerful compressor,or take your time, and take a few breaks to let it cool down.
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2007, 07:43 AM »
Thanks for all the tips and advice.  Very helpful.  My compressor isn't oilless.  It is cheap but it works for me so far. 

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&cat=Compressors+%26+Air+Tools&subcat=Air+Compressors+%26+Inflators&pid=00915310000

I definitely don't plan on going fast as it'll be my first time roofing and the area isn't large.  I guess if this compressor isn't up to the task, it would be a great excuse for a new, larger one right?   ;D

Thanks,
PaulD


Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1857
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 04:41 PM »
Thanks for all the tips and advice.  Very helpful.  My compressor isn't oilless.  It is cheap but it works for me so far. 

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&cat=Compressors+%26+Air+Tools&subcat=Air+Compressors+%26+Inflators&pid=00915310000

I definitely don't plan on going fast as it'll be my first time roofing and the area isn't large.  I guess if this compressor isn't up to the task, it would be a great excuse for a new, larger one right?   ;D

Thanks,
PaulD


iuse to have this compressor!!! it's not going to please you for roofing or framing.
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2007, 12:26 AM »
I'm not expecting much.  If it allows me to redo the roof section that needs it, I'll be happy.  Speed isn't important so if I have to wait for the tank to fill or the motor to cool down some, that's fine.

Thanks,
PaulD

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7393
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2007, 08:52 AM »
.....Speed isn't important so if I have to wait for the tank to fill or the motor to cool down some, that's fine.

Thanks,
PaulD

  Ha, you say that now, wait until you've been on the roof all day with the sun beating down on your neck, sweat in your eyes, covered with dirt, worn out from carrying the never endding supply shingles up the ladder! ;D ;D ;D

Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2007, 09:16 AM »
Agreed.  However, the section of roof I will be redoing isn't large at all.  If I'm up there all day, there's a more serious problem than the compressor.   ;D

PaulD

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 798
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2007, 02:41 PM »
Hello! I'll add my two cents here. I work as a remodeling carpenter, and I actually carry two air compressors with me. For trim work, or for smaller framing jobs (such as bathroom remodels), I use a Thomas Air Pac T-635HT, which is a 1.5 gallon, 3/4 hp compressor. This little guy only weighs approx 30lbs, but it will keep up with one, or even two guys lightly using framing guns, and because it is 100% duty-rated, you can run it 10 hours a day without damage to the motor. For larger framing jobs where we're running two to four framers I'll utilize my Thomas Air Pac T-2820 compressor. This is a twin-tank, twin-cylinder compressor, with a 4-gallon twin-tank configuration. This is quite a bit heavier (closer to 70lbs), but I've adjust for that by strapping it to a two-wheel hand truck for journeys around to the back yard of customers homes. The T-2820 will easily keep up with three or more framers, roofers, or sheathing nailers, has an incredibly fast recovery time, and is actually one of the most quiet compressors on the market. All Thomas Air Pac compressors are 100% duty rated, very quiet, and draw relatively few amps. They are all oiless, which would be a major concern for me except that they own the patent on oiless technology, and they seem to run longer than most oiled compressors. And, when they do fail, my understanding is that all a technician has to do is replace a few rings and a liner and the compressor is basically brand new. Anyways, I'm very fond of the black-and-red compressors.

http://www.thomasairpac.com/products/airpac/airpac_electric/T-2820ST/t-2820st.jsp
http://www.thomasairpac.com/products/airpac/renegade_electric/T-635-HT/T-635HT.jsp
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Dan Clark

  • Posts: 540
    • talkFestool
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 06:37 PM »
I've had a Thomas T-200ST for a while.  It's a great compressor but (at 67lbs) it's heavy and a bit noisy.   I found that it's too much for my needs.

I just got a Thomas T-635HT.   It's a great little compressor and much better for my needs than the T-200ST.  Before buying it I researched it as much as I could, so I know that it can easily handle my finish nailers and staplers.  However, I was worried about how well it could handle my Hitachi framing gun. 

I like to keep the line pressure gauge at 90PSI for all of my guns for consistency.   When the tank  pressure gauge goes below 90PSI I'll always stop for a few seconds to let pressure build up.   So...

As a test, I used it so shoot some 2" ring shank nails and some 3" nails standard nails.  At just over 1 second per nail and with a full tank of air, the T-635HT compressor kicked in after the fourth nail.   After the 10th nail I looked at the tank pressure gauge and it still read 90PSI.   In other words, I can shoot 10 nails in about 15 seconds and have enough pressure to sink every one.   Since I'm not a production framer, that's EASILY enough for my needs.

Other than being slightly noisier than I expected, it's the pefect size for my needs and a great little nailer.

Regards,

Dan.

Offline ccmviking

  • Posts: 411
    • Blue River Cabinetry Kitchen and Bath
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2007, 09:18 PM »
I've had the T-635HT for about 2 months or so now and I'm actually very disappointed in it (for ~$340).  It's louder than my $100 craftsman and runs much more doing the same work (sure it's the tank size, but).  The Thomas is 3X the cost.  I got it for the sole reason of saving 10 pounds or so in weight which is important.  I just wish is more lived up to the hype.   There's also an air leak somewhere on it that I can't track down no matter how much I spray it with leak detector.   Well it does work, is light weight, and maybe it's designed to last a long time (we'll see).  The little craftsman unit may be lower quality but it works well It's $129 list and can be had for $89 or so on sale.

 

Chris...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 09:21 PM by Chris Mercado »

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 798
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: More compressor Questions
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2008, 10:20 PM »
If I had a complaint about the 635HT it would be that it can be a little finnicky about voltage. It's really not a problem in most modern houses, but in some older houses (like my girlfriend's parent's Victorian) where the wiring is often somewhat sub-standard, the motor really has a hard time. It never pops a breaker or anything (it draws only 6 amps), but the thermal kill switch will engage and switch the motor off. It's funny, my 13.5 amp 2820 will run just fine on the same outlet that my 635HT will die on. I wonder if it's because the 2820 is a capacitor-start? Anyways, it's really not too much of an issue for me, though it is rather annoying when it does come up.

My biggest reasons for spending the extra $$$ on the Thomas Air Pac brand is reliability, relatively quiet compressors, with excellent performance.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers