Author Topic: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest  (Read 1578 times)

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Offline martin felder

  • Posts: 109
Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« on: October 16, 2020, 02:06 AM »
I have several Makita cordless drills.  Had them for years.  I have a couple of Festool drills also.  I was recently at the shop of someone who had a pneumatic cordless Milwaukee drill where it had a very nice controlled feel to it.   I was mostly interested to see what may be the best  choices out there now for drilling screws.

Any thoughts?

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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6767
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 02:41 AM »
I was recently at the shop of someone who had a pneumatic cordless Milwaukee drill

How do you do pneumatic cordless?

As for drills, for screwing I have not seen any drill yet I like better than my 12 year old Festool T15. The smoothness and controllability of this drill is still unmatched, odly enough. 

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 750
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 04:33 AM »
Presume you mean the oil pulse impact driver from Milwaukee?

Are we talking drills or impacts? I have no love for impacts, but I know they have their uses so when festool (my primary battery platform) released theirs this year I did buy it. It’s great. Feels like the nice Makita ones to me.

Like Alex I think the festool T & C-series of drills are still the world leader of control, comfort and precision. And I instantly lose respect for anyone who says they’re junk because their big ass Makita/Milwaukee is more powerful :)

The T-18 is THE reason Festool became my main battery platform. I haven’t used anything that comes even close (pro carpenter 15+ years)

That said, I don’t  tell/recommend these drills to people outside of this place. I totally get that you can do exactly the same job for waaay less cash with other drills. But if you use it all day every day, for both delicate and precise work as well as jogging out some 50mm holes,  you’ll likely thank yourself for buying a T18.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6767
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2020, 06:30 AM »
[smile] Oh, I get it now, this guy here demonstrates how you cordless drill a hole with an air pressure of 1 bar:



Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4887
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2020, 11:01 AM »
I have several Makita cordless drills.  Had them for years.  I have a couple of Festool drills also.  I was recently at the shop of someone who had a pneumatic cordless Milwaukee drill where it had a very nice controlled feel to it.   I was mostly interested to see what may be the best  choices out there now for drilling screws.

Any thoughts?

A little too much alcohol?  [poke]

Milwaukee doesn’t make a pneumatic drill. I suppose you mean the Surge oil impact driver (not technically a drill although you can use hex shanked drill bits).

The oil impact feature is a nice improvement but not solely available via Milwaukee.

Within the Milwaukee range you have a choice of 12 volt (max) or 18 volt. I have M12 Surge impact driver and the top M18 regular impact. The M12 Surge is only a little slower than the M18 (setting medium sized screws) but is much less annoying to use and it allows more sensitivity in setting smaller screws. For big screws the bigger driver is the obvious choice. The odd thing is that the smaller tool has a much larger grip. The bigger tool has a grip more similar to the Makita 18 volt drills and drivers.

Offline jaguar36

  • Posts: 220
    • Toolamanjaro.com
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2020, 11:27 AM »
Within the Milwaukee range you have a choice of 12 volt (max) or 18 volt.

I've found the M12 tools to be much better to use for almost every tool where there is a M12 and an M18 version.  The smaller size and lighter weight is much more beneficial than the extra power.  I use my M18 drill/drivers so infrequently that I wouldn't mind if they were cheap corded ones.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7754
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2020, 12:00 PM »
[smile] Oh, I get it now, this guy here demonstrates how you cordless drill a hole with an air pressure of 1 bar:

Now that's impressive...I hate cords and I hate hoses but this drill is capable of drilling 1/4" diameter holes in ceramic tile at 1 bar...I want one of these.  [wink]




I have & use both Milwaukee and Festool drills. The Milwaukee drills are great for drilling holes in any material you want and they are a genuine bargain if you consider price, capability and tool/battery life.

However for driving screws, there's nothing better than the Festool drills. I love the linear trigger speed control on the CXS & C 15 and the electronic torque limiter on the C 15. Nothing better out there. I also use the Festool drills for chamfering holes free-hand because I can rotate the chamfer/countersink at under 30 RPM for a clean, chatter-free finish in wood or metal.




And here's the Milwaukee drill I use with a 6"/7" auger bit for fence post holes. Milwaukee drills have a lot of power but finesse is not their long suit.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 12:04 PM by Cheese »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6767
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2020, 01:09 PM »
Now that's impressive...I hate cords and I hate hoses but this drill is capable of drilling 1/4" diameter holes in ceramic tile at 1 bar...I want one of these.  [wink]

I can see how you'd like to add this one, that's a rather meagre collection you got there. Even trying to pass that thing on the far right off as a drill and hope nobody would notice, tsk, tsk.  [tongue] 

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 630
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2020, 01:55 PM »


I have & use both Milwaukee and Festool drills. The Milwaukee drills are great for drilling holes in any material you want and they are a genuine bargain if you consider price, capability and tool/battery life.

However for driving screws, there's nothing better than the Festool drills. I love the linear trigger speed control on the CXS & C 15 and the electronic torque limiter on the C 15. Nothing better out there. I also use the Festool drills for chamfering holes free-hand because I can rotate the chamfer/countersink at under 30 RPM for a clean, chatter-free finish in wood or metal.

You need some teal in there too [cool]
There’s one Milwaukee in every generation?
Even more than impressive enough is the Estwings.. thought my 4 was a bit over, but it’s half what’s resting on your wall [blink] [big grin]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 917
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2020, 08:41 PM »
Now that's impressive...I hate cords and I hate hoses but this drill is capable of drilling 1/4" diameter holes in ceramic tile at 1 bar...I want one of these.  [wink]

I can see how you'd like to add this one, that's a rather meagre collection you got there. Even trying to pass that thing on the far right off as a drill and hope nobody would notice, tsk, tsk.  [tongue]

It's a drill in the sense it is an anti-drill.  It fills the holes the drill put in the wrong place.

He needs to upgrade to the M18 hole hawg too.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 917
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2020, 08:45 PM »
[smile] Oh, I get it now, this guy here demonstrates how you cordless drill a hole with an air pressure of 1 bar:

Now that's impressive...I hate cords and I hate hoses but this drill is capable of drilling 1/4" diameter holes in ceramic tile at 1 bar...I want one of these.  [wink]

(Attachment Link)


You guys are forgetting the other impressive part. A drill bit that will go into tile at extreme angles with no fixture, just a bit of tape to give it grip. I'm guessing the 1 bar supply reduces how much dust gets blown around.

Offline martin felder

  • Posts: 109
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2020, 11:09 PM »
I am not familiar with the Milwaukee impact and non impact drills.  I thought I was being told the cordless drill was pneumatic.  I understood it was not connected to an air line, but thought maybe that word was used for some reason.  Today, I was told it was hydraulic.  Since hydraulic is defined as liquid in motion and it was not connected to a water line, I made sure to take a picture of it and look up the model.  It was 2760-20.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Power-Tools/Fastening/Impact-Drivers/2760-20

Well... I do see hydraulic!  Not sure how that technology compares to other manufacturers.

For my drills, I have 3 Makita LXFD01 cordless drills.  Had them for quite a few years, pre-Festool.  I see they are discontinued and sell used for $55.  Try first Festool drill was aT15+3 to have the right angle attachment.  I then got rid of my impact drill to ge the Festool PDC 18/4.  That is it.

I used that hydraulic drill today.  For me, no big deal, but the owner liked that it had the ability to have good torque going through substances harder than hardwood (for me, hardwood and plywood mostly).

It got me to thinking, it has been so many years since I purchased my drills, I was just wondering how the newer models, Festool or others evolved.  The same, more powerful with longer battery life and lighter all at the same time?  I was wondering if anything is better than Festool.

Just wondering.


Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 591
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 12:13 AM »
I love my Milwaukee M12 surge (hydraulic) impact. It is not a drill but an impact driver. Compared to traditional impacts that use a mechanical action to create the impact these hydraulic impacts are much quieter, have less vibration that transmits into your hand and drive screws much more smoothly. I did a project recently where I used that driver to install about 300 3” screws into yellow pine. It did it on one or two battery charges and without virtually any fatigue to my hand and wrist. Frankly I was sort of amazed. I also own their relatively new installers 4 in 1 drill driver which is sort of a CSX knock off only with a brushless motor and an extra accessory or two. I think that your suspicion is correct in that the cordless tool market in general is improving at a rapid pace. In my Milwaukee’s at least the newer the model is, the better it is. They are improving at an impressive pace.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6767
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 01:17 PM »
You guys are forgetting the other impressive part. A drill bit that will go into tile at extreme angles with no fixture, just a bit of tape to give it grip. I'm guessing the 1 bar supply reduces how much dust gets blown around.

I noticed but didn't mention it. Whole picture is shopped together.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 917
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 08:15 PM »
You guys are forgetting the other impressive part. A drill bit that will go into tile at extreme angles with no fixture, just a bit of tape to give it grip. I'm guessing the 1 bar supply reduces how much dust gets blown around.

I noticed but didn't mention it. Whole picture is shopped together.

Just looking at how it is "engaged" in the chuck hurts my brain.

The question becomes, did the person who made it do it under distress and have their soul die the whole time making it. Or were they really proud of their work.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4155
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 08:36 PM »
All the companies have added the brushless technology and even the interchangeable chucks, so Festool does not have the edge on drills it once had, though the Festool battery life is still holds up well I think (opinion, rather than scientific statement).  But the precision of something like the T18, which I measure in terms of the dead on chuck and trigger sensitivity, still makes it my favored drill.  Plus I really like the convenience of the Centrotec system.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T 18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TID 18 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline martin felder

  • Posts: 109
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 09:59 PM »
Today I was able so spend time with the Milwaukee 2115-20.  It was used to screw baltic birch into other plywood with 1 1/4 inch flat head screws.  Light and I was very nicely able to control the depth of the insertion.  No need to countersink separately.  Very nice feel.  very impressed.  Excellent control so the head went just below the surface with a single effort every time.  I know it is an impact driver rather than a cordless drill, but for screwing things together, it was a good way to go.


Not sure if Festool has a similar offering. 

Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 188
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 11:12 PM »
Not sure about a cordless pneumatic drill, but here’s a cordless pneumatic nailer for you.

Zero recoil....

https://www.airbowsystems.com/airbow-framer/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline martin felder

  • Posts: 109
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #18 on: Today at 10:45 AM »
My error. 2551-20 SURGE hydraulic driver with M12 batteries.

I would like to avoid mixing brands and have a lot of different batteries, but not sure Festool has a product quite like this at this time.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7754
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #19 on: Today at 10:47 AM »
Not sure about a cordless pneumatic drill, but here’s a cordless pneumatic nailer for you.

Zero recoil....

https://www.airbowsystems.com/airbow-framer/

An interesting item but I doubt it's zero recoil.  [smile]

You can shoot 300 nails per charge, but the on-board air canister is not removable so you also need to purchase the Airbow high pressure compressor.

I remember another gun similar to this that was offered 2-3 years ago. The Gotcha for that system was the high pressure air compressor. It was $1200 or $1500.


« Last Edit: Today at 10:54 AM by Cheese »

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 917
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #20 on: Today at 12:08 PM »
yeah, it looks neat, and well "obvious".  I hadn't realized it didn't just have an air port on it. I thought you just go back and forth to a compressor and top it off.  Figuring the big thing was making a lightweight tank.  But yeah, to get much energy, it will need to be very high pressure.  Not crazy about a really high pressure tank around my like that with it getting tossed around.

I would hope if it needs a special pressure boost, it would be an inline deal, and air pump powered by normal compressor air, which runs just a simple compressor to boost high pressure, so it's not a whole other compressor involved.

In many ways its the "air powered car", yes, you can make one, it's just you can't pack a usable amount of energy in one, unless going a mile or 2 is all you want from it.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6767
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #21 on: Today at 01:57 PM »
My error. 2551-20 SURGE hydraulic driver with M12 batteries.

I would like to avoid mixing brands and have a lot of different batteries, but not sure Festool has a product quite like this at this time.

No, they don't have anything like this. Milwaukee has already made hundreds of impact drivers, Festool's on its second. The first one, the Ti15, was obviously not a big succes, and the second, the TiD18, is a very plain, noisy one.

I have the Ti15 for just over half a year now, and while it performs fine I'm getting really bugged by the noise.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 630
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #22 on: Today at 02:36 PM »
My error. 2551-20 SURGE hydraulic driver with M12 batteries.

I would like to avoid mixing brands and have a lot of different batteries, but not sure Festool has a product quite like this at this time.

No, they don't have anything like this. Milwaukee has already made hundreds of impact drivers, Festool's on its second. The first one, the Ti15, was obviously not a big succes, and the second, the TiD18, is a very plain, noisy one.

I have the Ti15 for just over half a year now, and while it performs fine I'm getting really bugged by the noise.

Speak of it.. Yesterday I did a marathon job removing my entire front door frame and surroundings, to do concrete mud and brick job under the door sill. This meant bringing out the impact to unscrew all previous temporary screwed together door, frame and surrounds, then after a few hours it was getting late and I could once more re-mount everything. The sound of the impact after using recipro saw, multitool and mixer meant pulling out my regular drill to remount as I was tired of noise and vibrations to may hands and ears, so was presumably my neighbours [wink]. The near whisper sound and speed control in 1. gear was noticeably nicer for my ears, so was the pleasing control of setting screws with the torque compensated speed control of my Makita drills. Not to forget, after using the other vibrating tools, having my hands “rest” from vibrations was a welcome too.
Impacts saves your wrist, but beware of noice and vibrations; gloves and hearing protection advised!

For best the best brands I have encountered regarding trigger sensitivity and electronics to control torque and speed, I would say that Panasonic, Festool and Makita have long been the best. Festool is in its own league, meaning that many electricians and fitters use them. Later I’ve learned that Makita is also coming a preferred brand amongst these. Makita sucks at marketing - but gains terrain through professionals due to pricing, quality and “bang for your buck”. But as most brands, don’t shop for the cheapest models, there’s lesser built in regarding electronics and wear points. Still ok for home use. But for hobbyists and professionals, a step up always pays.

A good electronics “test” is to grab the chuck with your spare hand whilst holding the trigger at the same 1st. gear (SLOW - low moderate!) speed and trigger position. Try brake the chuck with your spare hand and the more force you are squeezing the chuck, the more the electronics should compensate to maintain momentum - if you bring the chuck to a holt, or near holt, there’s probably none or certainly lesser speed/torque compensated control. - Remember: you shall not move the trigger in any direction during the test. Good luck to you with older drills (even Festool’s old C9,6/12/15)
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6767
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #23 on: Today at 03:42 PM »
A good electronics “test” is to grab the chuck with your spare hand whilst holding the trigger at the same 1st. gear (SLOW - low moderate!) speed and trigger position. Try brake the chuck with your spare hand and the more force you are squeezing the chuck, the more the electronics should compensate to maintain momentum - if you bring the chuck to a holt, or near holt, there’s probably none or certainly lesser speed/torque compensated control. - Remember: you shall not move the trigger in any direction during the test. Good luck to you with older drills (even Festool’s old C9,6/12/15)

What is the whole point of this test? It doesn't sound like a healthy thing to do.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 630
Re: Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest
« Reply #24 on: Today at 05:39 PM »
A good electronics “test” is to grab the chuck with your spare hand whilst holding the trigger at the same 1st. gear (SLOW - low moderate!) speed and trigger position. Try brake the chuck with your spare hand and the more force you are squeezing the chuck, the more the electronics should compensate to maintain momentum - if you bring the chuck to a holt, or near holt, there’s probably none or certainly lesser speed/torque compensated control. - Remember: you shall not move the trigger in any direction during the test. Good luck to you with older drills (even Festool’s old C9,6/12/15)

What is the whole point of this test? It doesn't sound like a healthy thing to do.

You’re not meant to do anything that may harm you. Suppose you have control over the arm and finger that runs the trigger. I do not on corded hammer or percussion drills, but every battery powered drill I’m looking at buying - I’ll do this check. Gripping on smooth surface, not the old type gear/wrench type of chucks. Drills that fails and have a nervous trigger I’ll pass on immediately. Not buying.
Those who have a later C15/18 or T15/18 and a CXS/TXS can note the difference in screw control. It’s the trigger sensitivity that makes the small 10.8V Festool, not the electronics.
Even my 2008 Makita has this control, combined with a really smooth and low end torque 4 pole motor.
Those looking for Makita can look out for this symbol: (Electronically controlled variable speed control)


And for what it is worth, using any of my drills that has these features, I have almost never cam out on the screw heads (the annoying Philips head is the one if any..) And I’ve never used the pump action trigger technique I’ve seen so many use.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:46 PM by FestitaMakool »
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”