Author Topic: router for table use  (Read 10001 times)

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Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
router for table use
« on: December 28, 2010, 09:19 AM »
Whats everyone using?

there is the primative triton at £200ish with a 2000w motor

or a of2200 with the more powerful 2200w motor but at a cost of £633

or the mafell with a wopper 2600w motor at £679

what have others use available in the uk

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Offline Guy Ashley

  • Posts: 662
  • Furniture & Cabinet Maker/Joiner
Re: router for table use
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2010, 11:04 AM »
I hate to admit it but I have an old Trend T11 stuck under an even older Trend router table. It screams like a stuck pig but does what is needed on small stuff.

I do have a spindle moulder though so anything likely to cause isuues with large amounts of stock removal in one pass is done on that.

From threads I have seen from the guys in NAINA land they use Porter Cables a lot and keep the nice "green stuff" for freehand work.

If you scour Ebay, there are plenty of 1/2" routers for sale that you could stick under a router table and I personally wouldn't blow my budget on an expensive router for the small amount of use it will get.

Send JMB a PM he has every tool known to man, he may sell you one of the 70 or 80 he has knocking around!!! [big grin] [big grin]
DIPLOMACY:

"The art of being able to tell someone to go to Hades in such a way that they positively look forward to the journey"

Offline GaryLaroff

  • Posts: 179
Re: router for table use
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 11:23 AM »
My preference is to use a router in a table whenever possible and these are never plunge routers.  My permanent router table, in contrast to quickly set up configurations, uses a 3 1/2 hp router, the Porter-Cable 7518.  It is height adjustable by turning the router in its base and has an adjustable calibrated ring that allows 1/256 inch (0.1 mm) adjustments.  It is soft start, has five speeds and with a router lift supports above-the-table bit changes.  This router appears to be perfect for the application.

This is a venerable old design where the technological changes over the last 20 - 25 years have been made internally.

In the United States, reviews always place this router towards the top of the list of the big routers for under-table use.  Other big routers come and go and take the top honors for a while and then the PC 7518 regains its top spot.

The other routers mentioned highly, which might have changed since the last reviews are the big Triton and the big Milwaukee.

Gary

Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: router for table use
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 11:56 AM »
been looking abit more and a charnwood spindlemoulder can be had for £600 so might go for that as it has a 1/2 collet so can use router cutters while i save for some blocks etc but not sure if the 1500w inductin motor will hack it

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: router for table use
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 12:29 PM »
been looking abit more and a charnwood spindlemoulder can be had for £600 so might go for that as it has a 1/2 collet so can use router cutters while i save for some blocks etc but not sure if the 1500w inductin motor will hack it


Dean you will only be able to use large dia router cutters in a spindle moulder as it will not spin fast enough for the small ones
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: router for table use
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 12:30 PM »
i was thinking raised panel bits etc that my router cant spin

Offline Festoolfootstool

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  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: router for table use
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 12:43 PM »
i was thinking raised panel bits etc that my router cant spin

 [thumbs up]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Re: router for table use
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 12:51 PM »
I'm using my OF1400.

Dean,

If you do decide to go for the Triton, Forrest Anderson has one for sale (or did have a few months ago). He's been working away for several months now & has been without internet access, but you can still PM him & he'll pick it up eventually.
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline Christopher Fitch

  • Posts: 80
Re: router for table use
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 01:12 PM »
I have this monster:

Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP Router

It's a nice router that even has through the base height adjustment.

Offline MacMitch

  • Posts: 99
Re: router for table use
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2010, 01:44 PM »
I am working on some of the same router table issues myself. It seems that most people here go for the larger routers 3-3 1/2 HP. The problem is router table packages with lifts that can handle that size router are much more expensive, as are the routers. It is easy to spend twice as much for a router table set up to house the bigger routers.

I am considering buying the top of the line lift from JessEm, Mast-R-Lift II ($329.99) vs the Rout-R-Lift II ($119.99). Then I have to decide whether to go with the Mast-R-Fence ($224.99) or the Rout-R-Fence ($119.99).... The Rout-R-Lift II Complete Table System ($499.99) with a nice quiet Hitachi M12VC 2 1/4 HP router (down around $100) is a very attractive price for a great router table set up with essentially a free stand and 4 feather Boards but the lift want work with the big routers. I have read of people doing raised panels with the 2 1/4 HP routers even though I read many cautions here concerning that practice. Seems to me to be a gray area in terms of jumping up to the big routers. I am exploring that gray area as crossing over it can about double ones investment.

http://www.jessemdirect.com/category_s/6.htm

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: router for table use
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2010, 04:49 PM »
I have this monster:

Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP Router

It's a nice router that even has through the base height adjustment.
I'm glad that you like it. Have you had any problem with shutting off while routing with large bits?    When i'm using it with large bit,the overload protection keeps tripping.I have tried different speed,and still does it. I found that if you set it up by cutting material little at the time it does ok.
I am not impressed with it.
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline WoodChuckWoods

  • Posts: 129
    • Gallery of Wood
Re: router for table use
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2010, 05:46 PM »
I have the triton and love it. Once I put it in the table it has never came out. The built in above table lift system works pretty well also.
Charles S
check out my blog
http://www.galleryofwood.com/blog

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: router for table use
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2010, 08:42 PM »
Wait a second, about a month ago I linked to a Porter Cable sander and the link was taken down  and I was told I could not link because Festool sold sanders. I felt totally singled out because I felt we always linked to tools to help people.. Now I see people are linking to routers, but Festool sells routers, What gives?  This link is on amazon and that is where I linked the sander to as well. I guess it was because I said the PC 390 was a much better router than the Festool ETS 125. That is just not right. Since I had that post modified I have seen many people link to many items Festool sells and the posts not being modified to remove the link.

I feel totally betrayed and nothing can explain this to me to make me feel good about it. I was simply singled out. I even linked to the Milwaukee router myself yesterday and then hurried to take the link out so I did not kicked out of the forum for a second infraction. I am not stirring up trouble, I just want to know why I was singled out and what the exact rules on this are.

Has the forum had a change of heart on this issue? If so fine, I need hear no more about it. If not, please clarify the rule.

Can we only link to another brand tool if we do not say the certain Festool may not be as good as another linked tool or in my opinion of the ETS 125 which is a total stinker. The ETS needs immediate upgrading to be at the level of other Festool sanders. I stick to that and the PC 390 for 109.00 is a better sander by far. That is all I said and I linked to the sander on amazon and it was pulled off the forum.

Should this not bother me and just let it go? I  feel my posts should be treated the same as every other post.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 08:59 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: router for table use
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2010, 09:00 PM »
Nick,

ease up.

peter - member - not moderator

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: router for table use
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 09:47 PM »
Well as a moderator, how about explaining please.

Am I wrong, this did happen and I messaged you on this PC sander thing it when it happened. So ease up means what, shut up, yes you will be treated different and we do not want to talk about the rules.

Come on Peter I am not out of line on this at all. Ease up can only mean do not bring it up, what else can it mean I am saying this as nicely as I can while explaining the situation. No name calling etc.

All I want is clarification on the rules.

I hate feeling the way I feel about this right now.

Can I link to other brand tools that Festool sells or not? A yes or no answer and believe me I am done talking about it. Just take down the other links if it is against the rules.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 09:54 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: router for table use
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2010, 06:49 AM »
MacMitch,

I just noticed that on the link you provided to JessEm's complete router table packages, unless it's a typo, they are including the older Mast-R-Fence for that price, not the new version Mast-R-Fence II.  Check with them before plopping down the cash and not being happy when you get it, if that's what you were going for.

If you're bent set on going with a 2-3 hp router for table use and don't want to try and rig something up for the OF1400 (which really defeats the purpose of being able to use that router for freehand work) look at the Porter Cable 890 as well as others mentioned in this thread.  I used to own the whole 890 kit.  It was a very good router, powerful, full electronics (soft start, maintain speed control, brake) designed for table use.  Sure a 3 1/2" diameter panel raising bit is tough, but if you go slow and take multiple passes of increasing depth, it'll be fine if the occasion to do that ever comes up.  So if you're leaning towards a medium horsepower router, I say go for it.  If it doesn't work out, they're not that expensive that you couldn't recoup most of what you spent to invest in the 3+ horsepower range routers.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 06:51 AM by Ken Nagrod »

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 624
Re: router for table use
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2010, 09:07 AM »
I have a Triton permanently in a table, and it works fine.  The through-table height adjuster works well, and I like that the spindle lock is automatic when you raise the collet up through the table.

I don't use it as a handheld router; it's just too much of a lump.  I have an adequate DW621K for that.  Again, I'd prefer an OF1010 for that, but I'd got the DeWalt before I discovered Festool.


A
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline MacMitch

  • Posts: 99
Re: router for table use
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2010, 09:32 AM »
Hi Ken,

JessEm Packages
Thanks for your thoughts. There are two Packages JessEm is offering at the moment as "factory specials". The less expensive "Complete Table System" is the Rout-R-Lift II which does have components with less features than those in the Mast-R-Lift II Complete Table System. It appears from the site that they actually designed a less expensive "Rout-R" lift targeting those who may not have felt they could justify the cost of a Router Table system based on a lift. Yes, the fence in the Rout-R package is different, specifically it does not have the measuring tapes installed. I think one measuring tape could be added to the top of Rout-R fence, after market. I don't think the measuring tape can be added to the table slide on the Rout-R Fence though as it's slide is a different design. I started this search with the idea that I was in the category of users who did not need a lift. I was thinking about buying a Triton router, a phenolic table top and probably a fence, then making my own cabinet to house those components.

The danger factor
Router tables scare me a little. I had a friend loose the end of a finger to his home made version. The scary thing being he still has no idea how he managed to do it, and I consider him a leveled headed person who does not get careless. I have used router tables myself a fair amount and feel like it is too easy to run digits over those bits, especially when working with a sizable number of small pieces of wood, like the stiles & rails I plan to work on. A coping sled and then the JessEm Mite-R-Slide caught my eye and imagination. The Mite-R-Slide will mount on either JessEm fence. One of the reasons I bought my Festool 1400 router was because I thought it was safer. I decided l would enjoy and use a router table much more with the Mite-R-Slide. Part of what I have been doing is re juggling my priorities since I decided on the Mite-R-Slide and JessEm router offerings.  It seems to me that removing larger sections of wood with larger bits and more powerful routers will add to the risks. However, I think the Mite-R-Slide would reduce those risks. Problem is a router table designed to handle large routers with a Mite-R-Slide on it becomes a whole new investment category.
http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/06001.htm


Offline Texastutt

  • Posts: 158
  • Just Do It!
Re: router for table use
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2010, 09:33 AM »
I have not done it yet, but I need to replace my old router table so that its smaller and transportable.... MY requirements. I have the PC beast and I've had it for years, and the base has worn out. I'm looking at the JesEm master lift (made specifically for PC) but they have adapters. THEN I'm either going to get their portable table with fence and dust bag (good idea) OR I'm going to take my 1080 MFT and cut a hole and use Kreg table clips and mount  the base in that with a home made fence... which would only have dust off of the fence  but put the JesEm and router into a sys5 and haul it around in the trailer...

 [2cents]
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to prosper." - Ben Franklin

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: router for table use
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2010, 10:29 AM »
MacMitch -

 Push Blocks, common sense and confidence in what you're doing will keep you safe.  When you start doubting yourself, you'll start scaring yourself and mistakes will happen.  If you need to, take a routing class at a Woodcraft store to boost your confidence and get guided instruction or search out other reputable sources.  There are plenty of people, even on here that have used router tables without injuring themselves.  Just like with a miter saw.  Keep your fingers a safe distance away and you'll keep them.


Texastutt -

 I believe cutting a hole in the MFT has been discussed on here before and it wasn't suggested mainly due to the fact that you're weakening the table top as it was never intended to do that.

Offline Texastutt

  • Posts: 158
  • Just Do It!
Re: router for table use
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2010, 12:41 PM »
it's MDF and any minor stresses would go around it... I don't think it would weaken it that much.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to prosper." - Ben Franklin

Offline MacMitch

  • Posts: 99
Re: router for table use
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2010, 02:58 PM »
I have a buddy who has offered to allow me to play around with making some of these joints with him on his home made table and I may do just that. I actually have a router table one of the first commercial router tables made, the first Freud kit, and have used it a fair amount for round overs, grooves, rabbits... My table is not level now though as moisture got into the particle board, the fence is warped...

I understand about the confidence issue but there is simple math involved in those small "unavoidable" risks. There is a basic rule with knives, don't cut towards yourself. It strikes me that pushing a piece of wood over or across a router bit, even with push sticks, sort of ignores the same basic rule. I like the idea of a Mite-R-Slide between me and the bit. I like pushing parallel to the bit instead of toward it too.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 349
Re: router for table use
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2010, 06:41 PM »
I've had an old Elu 177E for the past 25 years or so.  This has seen sterling service as a mini spindle moulder.

I've asked more of it than I really should have:  T&G flooring for 3 houses (over 600 sq. m.), V/J lining for walls and ceilings, thousands of feet of glue joints and decorative moulding, all in Aussie Hardwoods. I think it's spindle work could almost be measured in kilometres!

All of this was done in an old Triton router bench.  Don't be so dismissive of Triton gear: sometimes, primitive is good!  I now use both a Triton (2400w) and DeWalt 626 (2300w).

Over here, the Triton routers are 2400w., and have an excellent reputation for spindle work.  Their big router, and the big Trend, are as far as I'm aware the only machines on the market specifically designed for spindle work.  All the others are less well suited for using upside down, as it's always a frustrating battle to fight the plunge springs when fine adjusting your "plunge depth" in a table.

The Triton, in particular, is actually better suited to use upside down than right-side up, having springless fine depth adjustment, spindle locks etc. that make it the easiest machine of all to use in a table.  This completely negates the need for those ridiculously expensive router lifts, fine depth adjusters et. al.

The Triton is also one of the only routers available to offer a really useful "plunge depth" , or protrusion through the table, without resorting to bit extensions.  Having tried extensions before, I'd recommend against their use, as they tend to multiply problems with axial runout and imbalance, and place undue burden on the router's bearing assemblies.  Of course, with router lifts and other depth robbing devices, their use is in effect mandatory.

I'd recommend the simplest, most powerful setup you can afford, and the biggest & heaviest bits available (for flywheel effect), preferably with 3 or even 4 cutters around the circumference of your bits to smooth out the cutting process.  This, together with correct sharpening techniques and slow feed rates, will provide you with the smoothest and most chatter-free cuts, and the easiest setup, bit change and adjustment.


 
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline bonesbr549

  • Posts: 543
  • I'd rather be woodworking
Re: router for table use
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2011, 09:36 AM »
I've been using the PC 7518 for ages now and it's never failed me.  I did a lot of research prior to purhcase and it's considered the go to router in most cabinet shops for table use.  I'm sure there are others but I know this ones a good one.   You can also buy it with just the motor and it fits most lifts out of the box.