Author Topic: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy  (Read 8881 times)

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Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2019, 10:31 AM »

Thankfully, I have found myself able to turn on the headlights in my wife's Corolla and in my Odyssey. Despite being all the way on opposite sides of the steering wheel I never find myself stuck in the dark.

Hm not exactly a good comparison. That’s an accessory button. Like if the drill speed button where moved to a different spot. This is more like if the gas and brake where reversed. Of course you can get used to it if you’re driving the same car all day but switching back and forth rapidly is what I mean. Installing a closet door yesterday I was using three drills. If I added a drill to that mix that had unconventional controls it would be a pain.

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Offline xedos

  • Posts: 135
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2019, 02:54 PM »
I can’t see being able to retrain my hands for only one tool in the arsenal. Even if you get used to it what about when you switch back to another style drill?

Thankfully, I have found myself able to turn on the headlights in my wife's Corolla and in my Odyssey. Despite being all the way on opposite sides of the steering wheel I never find myself stuck in the dark.

Don't both cars have automatic headlights ?  I can't remember the last time I've had to turn on my headlights.

Now , an automatic reversing switch for a drill would be cool.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4318
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2019, 04:33 PM »
Over the years I’ve developed a habit of automatically reversing the direction of the drill/screw gun every time I use it. Don’t quite know how that happened.

This tool would probably be the cure.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 07:39 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Reed Hoyer

  • Posts: 35
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2019, 08:45 AM »
So, given that my answer to "which drill is best?" is always "whichever one feels best in your hands" I feel silly defending this stupid button but I did come to two conclusions about it last night. One I know to be right and the other someone with a Festool C1# can chime in on if they want.

The first is that not being able to feel whether or not the drill is in forward or reverse the moment you pick up the drill is weird. When you pick up a drill with the standard slide toggle it's trivial to just feel for where that switch is and know if it's in forward or reverse. Maybe Milwaukee could've made the light light up when the drill feels itself being moved (like lots of TV remotes do) but I'm not one to generally ask for more stuff that can break to be added to a tool.

The second is that I feel like the position of this switch might actually be the "right" place for the switch if you hold a C style drill with your middle finger on the trigger as Festool always tells us is proper (at least their ad photos show this). When I bought my c12  and c18 and gave them the good ole college try I had already committed to holding a drill with that hand style. When I returned them I even felt it was more natural to hold my T style m12 tools in this manner. Now that I'm on this C style m12 drill it's the natural way to hold it and my thumb just naturally gets to the top to push the direction button. That said, when I use the middle finger trigger grip it's kind of awkward to slide the standard toggle switch because my index finger is resting above the switch on one side and my thumb is above it on the other. I imagine with a middle finger trigger grip the c12's and c18's toggle switches are much less convenient than if you were holding them with that standard, American, index finger on the trigger grip. I admit that if you use the index finger on the trigger grip then the slide toggle is the obvious solution. Anyway, YMMV, I just don't see it as a stretch for someone to find that location to be a better location for that style of drill. 

Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2019, 09:05 AM »
I got my m12 installation driver last week, it has some serious wobble/runout, particularly with the jacobs chuck. Otherwise the power is there, it feels good in the hand, and having up to 3.0ah compact batteries and 6.0ah xc batteries is nice.  I wish the cxs had as much power, as it is the nicer drill imo, but this is close- if you can get one with an acceptably true chuck anyway.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 399
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2019, 09:16 AM »
How does the Bosch Flexiclick stack up to these?

Plus, What is the function of the bar if front of the handle on the Festool & Milwaukee?


Thanks

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 397
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2019, 09:26 AM »
My only gripe with the flexiclick is that if you're using to tightening a Jacobs chuck by running the drill and holding the chuck, it's easy to accidentally loosen the entire chuck because it's basically a twist fit.

Other than that I really couldn't be happier with it. I use the off-center chuck more than I thought I would and you can even combine it with the 90 degree chuck.

Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2019, 07:11 PM »
How does the Bosch Flexiclick stack up to these?

Plus, What is the function of the bar if front of the handle on the Festool & Milwaukee?


Thanks

externally it magnetically holds bits/fasteners, internally i believe it houses some of the electrical guts.

Offline AndrewW

  • Posts: 2
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2019, 08:23 PM »
Love this thing.  I don’t seem to have any run out issue with mine.  I mean maybe a few thousandths with the hex chuck, but pretty much every drill has that.  Hold it with your index finger pointed down the side and the fwd/rev switch is easily accessible.  Tons of power for a 12v and the small size batteries last a very long time on this thing.  Hung an entire room of drywall and still have over half the battery.  Can’t wait to use this to assemble some upcoming wood working projects.

This will also be fantastic around the house with the right angle and offset chucks.

I was all set to get this drill when it released. But the forward and reverse thing is too much. Some engineer really let that slip by any testers? One a tool we will use daily and frequently no one wants a feature that “takes some getting used to”.
I have 4 drills and 4 Impact drivers lol all with trigger switches. I can’t see being able to retrain my hands for only one tool in the arsenal. Even if you get used to it what about when you switch back to another style drill?

Took me about 10min to “get used to”.  Switched back and forth with drills all day and no issue.  I have to say after having this drill and being able to hold it with my index finger on the side, which also allows you to hit the button with your thumb, I wish I could hold all my drills like this.  It gives far better balance with a fastener to have the force applied directly from the back vs eccentric to the fastener like a traditional drill.


Plus, What is the function of the bar if front of the handle on the Festool & Milwaukee?

It keeps the drill balanced when setting it upright with the chucks attached.  It also has a magnetic strip that is amazingly useful.

Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2019, 11:11 AM »
I don’t seem to have any run out issue with mine.  I mean maybe a few thousandths with the hex chuck, but pretty much every drill has that. 

I've now had 3, each with 1/16" or more runout... idk maybe i'm just incredibly unlucky with drills.

Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2019, 04:05 PM »
Well I have returned to “eat crow”.

I thought I would try out the drill even after being the loudest critic of the fed/rvs switch...
It is an awesome drill. The switch location is a bit quirky and time will fell if it will hold up for 5+ years but for now I’m pretty happy.

I’m usually switching between 2 drills and an impact for door installs but I hung this Dutch door with just this drill. I’m sure not having to switch back and forth between drills with traditional switch locations helped. But hey I had fun.

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 547
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2019, 04:24 PM »
Well I have returned to “eat crow”.

I thought I would try out the drill even after being the loudest critic of the fed/rvs switch...
It is an awesome drill. The switch location is a bit quirky and time will fell if it will hold up for 5+ years but for now I’m pretty happy.

I’m usually switching between 2 drills and an impact for door installs but I hung this Dutch door with just this drill. I’m sure not having to switch back and forth between drills with traditional switch locations helped. But hey I had fun.

Glad to hear that switch isn't so bad after all.  Nice door!  Did you also use the drill to bore the holes for the lockset?  Also, is that a Sys Mini that you have the drill/chucks in? 

If I didn't already have the Bosch FlexiClick, I'd jump one the Milwaukee.

Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2019, 05:23 PM »

Yes. I did have to remember to use the drill with my middle finger on the trigger. That allows very easy thumb access to the button.
I didn’t use this drill to bore it, it was a pre bored door. I’m not sure it would be up the task but I’ll try it sometime anyway.
Yes it fits nicely in a sys mini. May put it in a sys 1 with the m12 impact but that works for now.

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 1121
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2019, 06:29 PM »
I'm watching this thread closely.  My CXS, arguably my favorite and most used Festool, is starting to spark and smoke.  I just replaced the batteries on it so it most be 4 or 5 yrs old.  But I expected it to last a lot longer.  I like the CXS for it's diminutive size and ergonomics but I'll be gall darned if I have to replace it.  Looks like this little Milwaukee might fit the bill.

For those of you who own one already, can you spin screws at a low rpm?  That's what I like about the CXS for installing small Brusso hinges on small boxes.  I need to screw and unscrew small frail brass screws multiple times over the fitting process.  The CXS excels at this.  I'd be interested in how the Milwaukee performs
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 06:32 PM by Jim Kirkpatrick »

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 397
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2019, 05:18 AM »
Couldn't you just replace the brushes?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1390
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2019, 06:49 AM »
If available use same size steel screws during the fitting process then install the brass only once at the end.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 829
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2019, 10:24 AM »
I got mine - haven't done any projects with it yet but looks good with negligible runout.  Have a small cabinet install coming up this weekend so we'll see how it does.  The ergonomics make a lot more sense with middle finger on the trigger and index finger down the side.

Paired with the M12 Surge (love that thing!) makes for a compact and versatile kit.
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline egmiii

  • Posts: 156
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2019, 12:19 PM »
+1 on the new M12 Fuel Surge impact. Very quiet, compact, and powerful.

I plan to order the 4 in 1 driver from Home Depot once the free 6.0 ah battery promotion goes live.

Offline Dane

  • Posts: 375
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2019, 01:39 PM »
More about the promotion, please.... [smile]

Offline JimD

  • Posts: 409
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2019, 02:55 PM »
I do not have this one but have the brushless impact driver and hammer drill combo in the M12 line.  I like them but was a bit surprised driving some tiny screws that the clutch on the drill had a low setting that was way too much torque for the small 3/8 inch screws.  My Ryobi drills were better in this regard.

Anybody try this Milwaukee on tiny screws?  Does the clutch go low enough?

I also have the Bosch flexi click.  I really like it but the lock for using 1/4 bits is backward from my Milwaukee impact and my Ryobi impact.  Annoying but still it's a nice tool.  Noticably lighter than the Milwaukee tools but may be a bit lighter in abilities too.  My M12s have metal gear boxes which I like even it it adds some weight. 

Offline egmiii

  • Posts: 156
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2019, 03:02 PM »
More about the promotion, please.... [smile]

You can get it now (via mail) by purchasing through an qualifying automotive dealer. But Home Depot will run an in store special soon.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/E-Rebates/Auto/2019/Q4/Q4-2019---AUTO---M12-FREE-XC-BATTERY

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 357
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2019, 08:57 PM »
Looking this tool over I am struck with the way that it's being marketed...on price. "If you don't want to spend the big bucks on the CXS then go with the Milwaukee."

What an insult!

The Milwaukee is made in China by workers making pennies and lacking tax payer funded, world class, universal, not-for-profit healthcare; lacking union protection; lacking multiple months of paid time off per year; lacking free childcare, lacking...all of the other perks one gets when living and working in Germany. Meanwhile, the CXS, at $300 for the full kit (which, don't forget, comes with a SYS 1 - a ~$60 value), looks like a bargain in comparison.

I'd rather jump off a bridge then hand over my hard earned cash to an unethical and unscrupulous company like Milwaukee (which sold out U.S. workers decades ago), especially when they have the gall to charge a premium price for a tool that no doubt cost them much less to make then the CXS costs Festool to make. A huge chunk of that extra profit goes right into the pockets of the fat cats that sit at the top of the company. Meanwhile, workers get the shaft.

The Milwaukee copy should sell for $100. Then, at least, I wouldn't feel insulted.

It's truly criminal how these transnational companies think they can exploit workers and environments in far off despotic countries (like China) but even worse are consumers who lap it all up.

I'll stick with my German-made CXS thank you very much.
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [n], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline PeterJJames13

  • Posts: 196
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2019, 09:33 PM »
**sent from my iPhone

Offline Dane

  • Posts: 375
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2019, 11:01 PM »
More about the promotion, please.... [smile]

You can get it now (via mail) by purchasing through an qualifying automotive dealer. But Home Depot will run an in store special soon.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/E-Rebates/Auto/2019/Q4/Q4-2019---AUTO---M12-FREE-XC-BATTERY

Thanks!

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 135
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2019, 11:22 PM »
Did you know the brains behind Milwaukee Tools' parent is German ?

And childcare isn't really free?

I think you've forgotten to value the added cost of a brushless motor, the better metal chuck, and the offset drive in your price consideration too. None of which CXS even offer at any price.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 447
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2019, 12:26 AM »
And don’t forget the value of a really great battery platform. Their M12 and M18 battery platforms and the variety of small hand power tools available within them is also a big selling point. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Festools but unlike Festool, Milwaukee is adding multiple tools (and batteries) to these two platforms consistently. Their Fuel line are as powerful as any cordless tools I have used.

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 872
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2019, 01:14 AM »
I bought one for two reasons.  First, I already have a bunch of M12 batteries, and second, this allows me to get rid of my M12 screwdriver, drill, and right angle drill.  I am keeping the impact driver.


Thoughts after giving it a quick whirl today.
  • It's lighter than any of the older tools I'm getting rid of.
  • Gripping it with the index finger out improves the balance, which is a little top-heavy otherwise.
  • Power seems to be fine.
  • The right angle clearance is slightly better than the single-purpose right angle drill, but not by much.  I expected it to be maybe 1/2" worse.
  • The location of the forward/reverse switch was not a problem for me, but I like mechanical switches better.
  • The tool won't stand up with one of the larger batteries installed if one of the heads is attached.  Mildly irritating.
For me, the CSX and the Bosch were out of the running because I don't have the batteries.  All I have in Festool are 18V tools.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 01:17 AM by HarveyWildes »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1390
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2019, 06:58 AM »
"Did you know the brains behind Milwaukee Tools' parent is German ?"

Are you saying that TTI is a German company?

https://www.ttigroup.com/our-company/tti-worldwide/

TTI bought Milwaukee years ago. It's one of many brands they market tools under, along with AEG, RIDGID (select AEG tools rebranded for sale in the USA by Home Depot), and Ryobi as well as Homelite and a couple others I can't remember.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4318
Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2019, 09:44 AM »

Re: Milwaukee 12V CXS Copy
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2019, 10:37 PM »
Yes the battery platform are a big deal to me and many others.
I have Impact drivers, Impact wrenches, flood lights, ratchets and more that operate with the same batteries. It’s hard to invest in a tool with batteries that only work for it and a tool platform with a fraction of the available m12 tools.
But I do love German tools, engineers and good working conditions but it doesn’t always translate to the best tool for the job. Expense ($300kit vs $230) had nothing to do with it.