I have the Right Angle Design setup and currently have mine setup this way with the 50” parallel guide. Can switch to the smaller 30” guide too.

I also have a BenchdogsUK fence, and had it setup before trying this setup. Both work good but using the TSO guide puts the fence right at the start of the cut, so less leaning over the table for smaller cuts with the fence at the back of the cut.


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That’s the reason I decided to try this arrangement out.  Keeping the rail square to the fence isn’t really an issue, but to keep it square and calibrated for the scale on the fence was. Then I saw a post on a Facebook group with the TSO setup.

Like you say, you can remove it and put it back on and the setup is square and scale is calibrated.  Also, really easy to calibrate or check the scale calibration.


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With 50" of fence, there's a lot of leverage and chance to cause deflection, but this is the case whether you use the guide rail with or without the MFT ... the only difference I see is that there's probably less chance of deflection by bringing the fence to the panel versus bringing the panel to the fence but I suspect this is only the case if you're not gentle. 

My Incra fence on the MFT is mounted to the side extrusion and while very solid, it can be moved a bit if I force the wood against it which is why I push the wood to the fence semi-gently, slide it down to the flag stop, then pull the panel back just a bit, and more gently re-position it taking care to touch the panel up against the fence and not to push the fence out of position.

I like the 8020 and dog holes but this only works on the table and you're only as accurate as the holes are.  I'm not sure how off the holes can be but it seems the TSO square is only off by user error of pushing too hard, assuming it's square within some degree of accuracy from the beginning.

@08G8V8 ... do you notice any issues with deflection and cuts not being consistently square?  Do you push the wood to the fence gently, moderately, or like the Incredible Hulk?

With 50" of fence, there's a lot of leverage and chance to cause deflection, but this is the case whether you use the guide rail with or without the MFT ... the only difference I see is that there's probably less chance of deflection by bringing the fence to the panel versus bringing the panel to the fence but I suspect this is only the case if you're not gentle. 

My Incra fence on the MFT is mounted to the side extrusion and while very solid, it can be moved a bit if I force the wood against it which is why I push the wood to the fence semi-gently, slide it down to the flag stop, then pull the panel back just a bit, and more gently re-position it taking care to touch the panel up against the fence and not to push the fence out of position.

I like the 8020 and dog holes but this only works on the table and you're only as accurate as the holes are.  I'm not sure how off the holes can be but it seems the TSO square is only off by user error of pushing too hard, assuming it's square within some degree of accuracy from the beginning.

@08G8V8 ... do you notice any issues with deflection and cuts not being consistently square?  Do you push the wood to the fence gently, moderately, or like the Incredible Hulk?

Sorry bugs, thats simply not true.  You can either adjust the the hinge for the track or adjust the 80/20 between where the 80/20 screws to the angle.  Which is where I decided to make my adjustments. Since I locked the DIY rail hinge from any adjustment side to side and it seemed like it would be easier to shim the 8020 fence for super fine adjustments. First I put the 80/20 down (I always used the same holes) and then squared the track as close as I could using the TSO MTR and mounted the hinge permanently. Then made a test cut using the 5 cut method and put the required shims (i used clear packing tape) between the 80/20 and the angle bracket.  The most important thing is to make sure EVERYTHING is locked down tight with no room for possible deflection otherwise you will be chasing the problem forever since the deflection will always vary slightly. 

@afish, I’m not sure why I didn’t consider the ability to shim things, good point!  I believe you said you’re not using the MFT table hit a custom table? 

My fence is solid and aligned with the extrusion as well as dog holes ... checked with square and super parf dogs set perpendicularly but it’s the rail that has to much opportunity to move ... 

Not to be the curmudgeon of the thread but I dont like it. 

I wish to see more divergent views when I visit a forum or thread, instead of everybody nodding to each other -- trying to be politically correct. As long as the engagement is civil if it's spirited, I enjoy them.

Oh, I see that's better for deflection issues but brings up another issue trying to make sure the material is squarely against the GRS which is beyond easy view of sight (at least with my crappy sight) most of the time.  Here is the best pics I could muster of what I used to use.  I have been redoing everything in the shop and just tore down my MFT bench the other day and cut it down since I dont need it so big anymore.  I already removed the stops along the top of the 8020 so those arnt there anymore.  Hopefully it helps but there is zero deflection issues this way and no need to be super careful you can push/move or bump as firmly as you want its not going to budge and it gives a long reference edge to measure against. I used 8' of 8020 since I do a lot of full height cabs.  Plus the 80/20 pops on and off in seconds.  I think the 8020 and parts where about $100 bucks no expensive fences or MFT's 1 sheet of russian birch for bench, 1 sheet of MDF for top and 8020 parts, throw in a MFT drilling system (technically you dont need it since it only uses 2 holes) and everything still costs half of a MFT/3

Glad to hear. I meant no offense.  I am usually straight to the point type of guy and sometimes it comes across as harsh, but its not intended to be. If it was trust me you would know it   I have done various forms of construction my entire (rough/finish/metal fab/ concrete) life. So, IM not new to it but I am newer to Festool items/process.  Doesnt really matter how long anyone has been doing it there is always room to learn and grow.   

Our decisions are typically based on the available data so I always appreciate feedback whether it agrees with or goes against what I've said.

FWIW - I REALLY enjoy 8020.  As you may know, my outfeed table is built with 8020, and I was considering to build my Kapex miter station out of 8020.  As far as my MFT fence, the stock fence wasn't good enough, but I decided to use an Incra fence rather than 8020 mainly because I've bad vision in my Left eye and an astigmatism. 

I can line up an end stop to a measure and it will look different with both eyes open and will also look different between each individual eye opened even if I move the open eye directly over the mark!  Because of this, and maybe even if I had better vision, I really like being able to calibrate a rule/end stop system once, and be able to quickly drop the end stop to the measure, move it, move it back, and confidently reproduce the exact same measure, as quickly as possible.  Not only is it quick and accurate but because of my eyes and desire to get an exact measure it saves me a good deal of time ... and it's not just for predefined end stop points but any point on the scale.

Another bonus is my fence is 99% off the table which gives me a generous cross cutting capacity when compared to setting up 8020 after the back row of holes ... I suppose I could fabricate brackets for 8020 to use the side rails so this isn't a concern.  The downside of mounting to the rail profile is that it takes a minute to reinstall as opposed to bench dogs.  I hardly need to switch back and forth as I don't get much time in the shop but certainly can appreciate that convenience for the times you do use it.

All that said, I just made a video to illustrate the maximum deflection with me purposefully bending the fence back with a lot more pressure than it should see in reality to show the maximum possible deflection.  From what I see it seems my fence is very solid and reliable under normal usage but you can judge for yourself.  But even if the fence is solid, the guide rail requires more effort than I'd like, and is not always consistent thus why I really like the TSO guide rail with parallel guide rail.  You still think it wouldn't be consistent in this usage?

I've some people over but will update the video shortly ...

Quote from: 08G8V8 on November 26, 2020, 01:25 PM

I initially tried to just rely on the dog holes, but found I wasn’t exactly square. I think I had to use .023” shim on the dog closest to the start off the cut.

The dogs are almost surely not square vertically either (that fat collar makes it hard to check though) which means .023" shim will only work for the specific thickness you tested.  Properly tight dog holes also wear out quickly to develop slop and then the shims are different for every time you insert the dog. Dog holes are a fundamentally unworkable system for consistent high accuracy.

Agreed, I tried all methods with dogs and while a good idea in theory it produces unreliable results and as you say the taller the dog the worse it gets.  However that has not been my experience with the anchor dogs.  Since the force applied to the dog is right at the table surface there is no leverage to tilt the dog.  They have held up extremely well and developed no slop even after many uses.  Im willing to bet that the top would need to be replaced do to other issues before you wore out the 2 holes and even if you did manage to wear them out you could just move it over one hole to the left or right and recalibrate if needed or drill a couple more holes in between the 96mm C-C space.  As far as attaching it to the MFT and retaining full capacity that seems pretty easy to me.  If you could fashion a upside down L shape from some scrap ply and flip it upside down with the short leg facing up and away.  Attach the long leg to the MFT with T bolts or whatever fits in the extrusion so the top of the short leg is flush with the MFT top. Drill 2 - 20mm holes in the short leg to accept the anchor dogs. The wood L could probably stay attached 99% of the time without interfering with anything.  As you say though using the mft it probably doesnt need to be so easily removable.  For me the MFT bench was also my outfeed table so I needed it to go on and off quickly without any loss of accuracy. I struggled with squareness at first but after switching it was spot on all the time.     

My brother stopped by for Thanksgiving whom I seldom get to see so that was a real delight. We deep fried a Turkey and all I can say is I might be deep frying Turkey for the rest of my life!!  The crispy skin and flavor was nothing short of amazing and sooo much better than baking a Turkey.

Ok, as promised, I’ve uploaded the video of me showing my MFT fence and how much deflection it has in worst case scenario which is minimal IMO but let me know what you guys think and whether the TSO can produce reliable consistent results, if I should stay with my fence for my eye issues and get the TSO triangle to more accurately align the guide rail, etc., etc.

Can you see my video linked?  It doesn’t show on my phone for some reason.

About the Turkey, if I could bag the skin and preserve it, it would sell better than beef jerky... it was seriously good and the meat was super moist. I’m not sure what my wife marinated it with but we deep fried at 325-350 for 3.5 minutes per pound or 50 minutes for 14 lbs in this case.

You need to use the full youtube.com URL in order for the video to embed correctly:

Using the shareable, shortened URL (youtu.be) seems to be the problem.  The forum software should be, but unfortunately isn't able to properly convert that URL.  I copied the full URL (youtube.com) from a browser window.

It was no trouble at all!

I had to watch with no sound but will watch with sound tomorrow.  I like the fence better than what I was picturing in my head but there is still more deflection there then I would want.  Also running the fence under the rail helps A LOT.  I had to cut my 8020 down to slide under which made a noticeable difference in helping keep the sheet squarely pressed against the fence.  the smaller the part the more it helps.  I tried at first with it like yours and didnt like it.  Made a big difference.