Author Topic: Metabo  (Read 44130 times)

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Offline festoolman

  • Posts: 42
Metabo
« on: March 14, 2009, 12:14 PM »
Can anyone tell me their experience with Metabo tools?  I am not very familiar with their products.  Any info would be great, thanks, Leon.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline EcoFurniture

  • Posts: 608
    • Eco Furniture
Re: Metabo
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2009, 01:05 PM »
Back in Germany, when working in the woodworking industry, Metabo was at the same level as Festool. Quality is, in my mind, outstanding and the tools are worth the money.


Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1048
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Metabo
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2009, 01:22 PM »
My experience with metabo only consist of 2 not so good corded hammerdrills. But a lot of professionals really like their sds+ rotary hammers and little angle grinders (I myself prefer bosch for those tools)

Offline darkstar

  • Posts: 51
Re: Metabo
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2009, 05:04 PM »
I Just bought a Metabo kgs 303 10" sliding miter saw - precision build. Used it for five days now and like it. Kind of a no frills machine, with excellent dust control (with the purchase of optional dust kit), and is very quiet. It wieghs 42 pounds and its fairly compact.

Offline Peterm

  • Posts: 262
  • I work with wood in West London, UK
    • carpenterhandyman
Re: Metabo
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 03:49 PM »
Can anyone tell me their experience with Metabo tools?  I am not very familiar with their products.  Any info would be great, thanks, Leon.

Positive experience all round; well  made, good value. The KGS 255 was my first SCMS - still is, though I bought mine when they were branded 'Elektra Beckam'. I've had a 6" Metabo dual orbit sander ( 400 duo SXE something??) forever, and it's a great bit of kit, though I recently bought an ETS 150/5 and have to say it's a significantly better sander, though more expensive. I also have a Metabo detail sander which is OK (and I'd say no better than OK) but based on my recent experience may consider adding a Deltex before too long.

Metabo don't always get it right - I had a Metabo PowerGrip 4.8v screwdriver that was a shockingly bad design - though they do seem to learn; the latest version (PowerMaxx??) is much better, just launched at the time Bosch and Makita were turning to 10.8v cordless tools....

So yes, well made, good value; probably not the best in any sector, but I'd say far, far from the worst.

Hope this helps, Pete
The only thing worse than spending more than you need is spending less than you should have...

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1048
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Metabo
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 04:27 PM »
We had an elektra beckum saw too, kgt500, jobsite combination table/mitersaw, very good quality. But I disliked the drills so much I personally wouldn't buy a metabo tool for myself, and I don't like their slogan "work, don't play"... I want my work to be fun ;)

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Metabo
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 11:05 PM »
I have an Eleckra Beckum single stage dust collector (~3/4 hp, 120 VAC) that has been problem free for many years, but it has not seen that much use.   (I don't bother with DC when planing a lot of rough lumber; I just roll the planer outside.  And now I have a larger cyclone DC.)  Every aspect of the Electra Beckum unit is well thought out and well made, with Bosch electrics.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Skylar

  • Posts: 28
Re: Metabo
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2009, 10:06 PM »
Having only used their angle grinders, I find it interesting to hear that their woodworking tools are received with mixed reviews. Their grinders are impossible to kill! Outlast any other brand hands down!

        Skylar

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6159
Re: Metabo
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 06:37 PM »
I've got a Metabo jigsaw which I am very fond of, it is a delight to work with it, strong, precise and runs very smoothly with a low noise. I've got it over 10 years now and though I'm not a pro who uses it every day I've cut quite some wood with it by now. It never lets me down. This machine is an absolute winner in my opinion.

I also have a Deltex type detail sander, I've had it also for more than 10 years and the story is basically the same as with the jigsaw, good to work with, strong,  low noise and good to handle. I was always very fond to work with it. I have to say 'was', because it broke down not long ago, even though I haven't used it that much or that intensive. I thought it might just be the coal brushes so I opened the sander to see if I could replace them, but then I found this wasn't the problem, unfortunately.

Instead I saw that the ball bearing of the axle in the head had melted through the rims of the plastic casing it rested on. I couldn't believe what I saw, I regard this as a serious design flaw.  The head is where you press down on the machine to get a good grip on your workpiece, and when the axle revolves through the ball bearing it can generate some serious heat. And all that rested on some plastic that was hardly one mm thick. I was very disappointed with this. I have yet to contact their customer service to confront them with this but I will do so shortly and find out what they think is a good solution to solve my problem.

But when you buy Metabo you have to keep in mind that the company has fallen for the big hobby market. You can't simply think "Oh, Metabo is Metabo". The quality of their machines is not the same for all. They have brought out cheaper models to appeal to hobby users also, and not just solely professionals. You have to keep an eye on the price. Their cheaper models are priced at about the same as brands as Black & Decker and green Bosch. The quality of those machines is only slightly better than B&D or green Bosch but not comparable with professional machines. However, if you buy a more expensive machine you'll be sure to get the professional quality.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 05:25 PM by Alex »

Offline Tom Bainbridge

  • Posts: 1009
  • Limey Carpenter
Re: Metabo
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2009, 04:19 PM »
i have a metabo long nose die grinder for removing rotten wood FAST, for this job, nothing beats it

with all tools like this dust / chip suppression......... forget it


AND

wear ski goggles to protect you eyes unless you want a trip to A&E

Bromley, Kent. UK

aka dirtydeeds

Offline plino

  • Posts: 6
Re: Metabo
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2009, 01:03 AM »
In New Zealand Metabo has had some problems with there Grinders. I suspect it might be related to the fact that all there tools are made in China?

Plino

Offline extiger

  • Posts: 254
Re: Metabo
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2009, 01:02 AM »
My only Metabo tool is the small 4.6volt battery drill. Now that I have a Festool C12 drill, I find that I reach for the Metabo more often. It has a nice feel in the hand.

If I were doing production work, I think I would favor the beefier Festool.

Gary Curtis
Northern California

Offline jo041326

  • Posts: 76
  • Czech republic
Re: Metabo
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2009, 11:29 AM »
Hi,
I have a Metabo drill hammer and it's a piece of junk - strong vibrations, too much clearance. Very disappointed. I've heard their combo planner thicknesser HC260 was good but now it's made in China and it's useless.
Josef

Offline richard.selwyn

  • Posts: 635
Re: Metabo
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2009, 03:54 PM »
I used to have an Electra Beckum chop saw - the 303 (?) mentioned above - they still make it as a Metabo, its now blue instead of green.  Very sturdy and still going strong (I gave it to a retired friend) after 15 years.  I have their biggest sliding compound mitre saw which is currently laid up as I'm using the Kapex.  It is very well made, solid and accurate but doesn't have the dust collection of the Kapex (or the old 303).  The only other Metabo I own, apart from the little screwdriver mentioned above,o is their paint remover.  It's an angled grinder motor with are cutter head that uses removable cutter blades like on shaper heads.  It is unique, works really well for rapid paint removal and "wood butchery" and comes in a systainer.  I'm not in the shop so don't remember what its called but I'd recommend it to anyone who does a lot of renovation.  Its probably NAINA  - must be dangerous that head spinning round with those sharp little blades and paint and splinters flying everywhere.  It does have dust extraction but removes so much that even a big Festol vac has trouble.
Hope that helps.

Offline Iggy1965

  • Posts: 6
Re: Metabo
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2009, 06:01 PM »
I have and had several tools some with real bad experience like the Elektra Beckum miter saw KS2100. It jammed and i'm lucky to still owning my fingers. (it came up 1 foot in the air when it jammed). And some with real good experience like their normal corded drill (high torque). Its really 'China on the label, Trash on the table'. But when 'made in Germany', I like it. Their Belt sanders are the same as Festool. Its the old HolzHerr design.
ts55/ts75/pb300/domino/cms/vs600/cmt/ets125/c12/tdk15+3/of1010/of1400/ctmini/2x800/2x1400

Offline Frans

  • Posts: 113
Re: Metabo
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2009, 04:32 AM »
I've got a Metabo corded drill, which is excellent, if a bit noisy. My father has one as well, a different model bought around 1980. When he needed some replacement parts in 2005, the bloke on the phone was pleasantly surprised that the machine was still serving well. They dug up the needed replacement parts somewhere, and sent them at no charge!

Frans


Offline Roger Savatteri

  • Posts: 506
    • www.savatteridesigns.com
Re: Metabo
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2009, 08:32 AM »
.

I have  the Metabo SXE400 Compact Random Orbital Disc Sander with 3 inch discs and I'm very happy with it for when I need an orbital disc action in a tight space.
(very handy when working with fiberglass parts) It's not an everyday sander and falls more into the category of "specialty once in a while sanders".
Dust collection works well and has a foam pad for contour surfaces.
http://www.tools-plus.com/metabo-sxe400.html?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=froogle&utm_term=METSXE400

Review...... http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=5885




14848-0
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 08:38 AM by Roger Savatteri »
Los Angeles, California

Offline Radone

  • Posts: 3
Re: Metabo
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2010, 06:16 AM »
Bringing this one back to life ;)

Have to kinda agree that Metabo don't alway get it right.

Just bought a Metabo KGS 216 Sliding Compound Mitre Saw as referred to by a mate and my previous experience with Metabo and there's always a place in my heart for German and Austrian wordworking machines and was a field service tech for Felder Group for awhile.

At the sub $600 mark I was a bit hesitant but I did a bit of research and found mostly good reviews and know that Metabo saws are quite accurate, dependable and reliable. Nowhere did anybody have any bad workds to say. Plus, I didn't see the worlds 'Made in China' anyware which I thought was odd at this price range.

Anyway, pulled it out of the box and found hard, lower quality plastics but good quality metals which is more important to me. That explains the price, right? Then I used the slider.... ! Felt like it had a bad bearing. Even an Ozito and Makita clones runs smoother. Maybe not as accurate or sturdy but definitely smoother in the push and pull department. How can I get that wrong, right?

Immediately took it in for warranty service where I am told that that's how it's supposed to be?! Service tech also tells me it is indeed made in China although it doesn't say so anywhere. Very nice guy. Tells me that he'll see what he can do for the bearing and will keep it for a couple of days.

I'm just using the saw for home improvement and investment property renovation but wonder if it's worth taking back due to a rough slide if the tech can't improve it. I haven't cut with it yet but I have heard good things about the saw.

First impressions last a lifetime and on this one, I'm dubious. Any suggestions, recommendations?

Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1300
Re: Metabo
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2010, 12:58 PM »
See how it is when you get it back. If it is not up to snuff, refund it.
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Offline Radone

  • Posts: 3
Re: Metabo
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2010, 08:26 PM »
Yeah, that's where I was heading. On one hand you have a otherwise good saw. On the other you have a very noticable annoyance that may not affect performance but diminishes your overall product ownership happiness.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Offline bonesbr549

  • Posts: 543
  • I'd rather be woodworking
Re: Metabo
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2010, 09:15 PM »
I bought a small driver set made by Metabo that was soso at best.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Metabo
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2010, 10:45 PM »
Contractor i was working with was all proud of his cordless 18v Metabo drill until it dropped a foot and the chuck snapped off because it was all cheap plastic. Never looked at their tools since.

Offline richard.selwyn

  • Posts: 635
Re: Metabo
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2010, 09:47 AM »
I recently bought the smallest, cheapest Metabo chop saw (I also own their biggest see above)
I did not expect much - it was 99 euros - but it is the lightest - at 9kg - I could find for lugging around (I hate lugging heavy tools up flights of stairs in peoples' homes.)
Anyway, it is about what you would expect for 99 euros (pretty rough), but having installed a Festool blade - which is worth almost as much as the saw- it does give reasonable cuts.  I couldn't see any mention of where it was made anywhere, but it certainly looks and "smells" Chinese. 
That said, this is being typed on a 1500 euro chinese built computer so I know that made in China doesn't necessarily mean cheap rubbish.  I just wish some of these European companies (Jet is Swiss owned for example) set out more exacting standards for their Chinese partners.

I would like to buy a better saw but cannot find anything that compares weight wise. (Apart from the Festool Sysmetric saw which I can only use for small moldings)

Richard

Offline Radone

  • Posts: 3
Re: Metabo
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2010, 12:19 AM »
Very good point; the weight: 14kgs. I hurt my back awhile ago and can't be lugging this thing around when I do use it. Also, cross cut width (305mm), 5,000 rpm idle/3756 rpm rated load and 1.5kw input power seems pretty darn good for a 216mm. I can see me putting a better blade on it as well. I can't wait to actually cut with it.

Speaking of, it's still in the shop to get the warranty replacement bearings put on. The shop has had it longer than I have. I turned it in at three days old and they've had it for about a week and a couple of days now waiting for bearings that are on back order. It sure will be nice to use the thing.  ::)

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 348
Re: Metabo
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2010, 03:41 AM »
I've been using Metabo tools for 30 odd years, & overall I'm impressed.
Their corded drills are probably the best available.  I have 3.
Their grinders are the longest lasting, most reliable tools money can buy.  They're a firm favourite with engineering and steel fabrication workshops.  I have 3 of these also.
Their cordless tools, however, aren't really all that good.  I've had quite a few: 1 driver, 5 drills, a circular and a saber saw.
Their sanders are excellent, complimented by reasonable quality sandpapers and absolutely woeful intermediate pads, that self destruct even before use!
Overall I'd rate their corded drills and grinders as the best professional tools available.
Their cordless tools, however, I'd rate as only on a par with Festool's (in other words not really as good as alternative brands).
Their sanders, however, aren't nearly as good as Festool's equivalents.  Festool is the world's premier manufacturer of sanders.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline lerabotperche

  • Posts: 43
    • What I do and how I do it :)
Re: Metabo
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2019, 02:39 AM »
any others reviews for the last nine years ?

Their 12v drills look nice but I'm looking for reviews (and for 18v tools) for cabinet making and carpentry :)

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 397
Re: Metabo
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2019, 09:45 AM »
They just "upgraded" to a new 12V battery platform, I've used the older 10.8V one and really liked it, the quick chuck is great and it has plenty of power. Mafell rebrands these with a few small modifications, which should really say enough.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 847
Re: Metabo
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2019, 10:37 AM »
To be clear for those in the United States there are two different Metabo companies: Metabo and Metabo HPT (formerly Hitachi Power Tools). A reasonable person would assume the cordless products would be compatible between the two, but they are not. Why there would not be consolidation of the cordless platform is beyond belief and will lead to customer confusion and eventually disappointment. The travesty is that Metabo and several other European manufacturers (Mafell being one of them) came together to design a battery pack that is compatible across manufacturers.

Some will say this is bad and full of compromises, but that is not the point of my posting, which (2) Metabo's with zero compatibility.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1871
Re: Metabo
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2019, 12:31 PM »
To be clear for those in the United States there are two different Metabo companies: Metabo and Metabo HPT (formerly Hitachi Power Tools). A reasonable person would assume the cordless products would be compatible between the two, but they are not. Why there would not be consolidation of the cordless platform is beyond belief and will lead to customer confusion and eventually disappointment.
Hitachi acquired Metabo only in 2016. Obviously, with millions of units in circulation from both companies they can't suddenly make them compatible. They will have to support both platforms for a while. Perhaps new models will be the compatible.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 01:12 PM by Svar »

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 847
Re: Metabo
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2019, 01:19 PM »
Metabo's plan moving forward is to maintain separate platforms according to several articles I have read. Considering they do not share a common website at this point (3 years in) I don't anticipate any other changes. Marketing wise they should have just kept the Hitachi name until they could make the changes necessary to share battery technologies.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Metabo
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2019, 03:08 AM »
The only Metabo I’ve ever owned was, many years ago when I used to buy fixings in bulk from a supplier. One time we ordered a real big amount of various screws and fixings. They handed me a Metabo cordless drill/driver brand new in a case with two batteries.
Could you trial this and let us know your thoughts? they said. Sure I said.
Anyway, being used to Makita drill/drivers, I couldn’t get on with it, and neither could anybody else that used it.
I eventually returned it to the supplier with a not so good report. They said thanks, but keep it as a thank you for doing the trial, and being a good customer.
I couldn’t give it away, it sat in storage for years until I threw it away a few weeks ago when clearing out.

I know many people swear by Metabo, it’s not for me though, even the modern stuff.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 847
Re: Metabo
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2019, 09:38 AM »
The only Metabo I’ve ever owned was, many years ago when I used to buy fixings in bulk from a supplier. One time we ordered a real big amount of various screws and fixings. They handed me a Metabo cordless drill/driver brand new in a case with two batteries.
Could you trial this and let us know your thoughts? they said. Sure I said.
Anyway, being used to Makita drill/drivers, I couldn’t get on with it, and neither could anybody else that used it.
I eventually returned it to the supplier with a not so good report. They said thanks, but keep it as a thank you for doing the trial, and being a good customer.
I couldn’t give it away, it sat in storage for years until I threw it away a few weeks ago when clearing out.

I know many people swear by Metabo, it’s not for me though, even the modern stuff.

I don't think your one-time use of a drill "many years ago" really adds anything to the discussion other than noise.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Metabo
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2019, 01:37 PM »
The only Metabo I’ve ever owned was, many years ago when I used to buy fixings in bulk from a supplier. One time we ordered a real big amount of various screws and fixings. They handed me a Metabo cordless drill/driver brand new in a case with two batteries.
Could you trial this and let us know your thoughts? they said. Sure I said.
Anyway, being used to Makita drill/drivers, I couldn’t get on with it, and neither could anybody else that used it.
I eventually returned it to the supplier with a not so good report. They said thanks, but keep it as a thank you for doing the trial, and being a good customer.
I couldn’t give it away, it sat in storage for years until I threw it away a few weeks ago when clearing out.

I know many people swear by Metabo, it’s not for me though, even the modern stuff.

I don't think your one-time use of a drill "many years ago" really adds anything to the discussion other than noise.

The OP asked for Metabo experience, so I posted mine. Not that it’s any of your business, and the only thing you’re adding to the discussion is abruptness.
The point of my post was, I’m saying I wouldn’t have Metabo as a gift. This obviously went over your head?

When my experience with the drill took place, Metabo were a lot more respected than they are now.
In my country, most users of decent tools, use Japanese or German, or the U.S. brand De Walt. We have a good choice of brands including Metabo, and I can tell you for fact, Metabo are one of the least seen tools on the many sites I am on, week in, week out. What does that tell you?

I have had good experience with the older Hitachi tools btw.

If I am able to give any more input to the thread, I shall, and if I get too noisy for you, put your ear defenders on, or maybe be polite and keep quiet?


Offline demographic

  • Posts: 536
Re: Metabo
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2019, 04:20 PM »
I don't think your one-time use of a drill "many years ago" really adds anything to the discussion other than noise.

Seemed like a reasonable answer from a person that wasn't blown away by a product to me.

I have a Metabo Steb 140 jigsaw, its not the best jigsaw I've  used, nor the worst. It's OK. Its got an LED light that goes on when I pick it up, seems like a better idea is just having the light on when its connected to a live cable so I can tell at a distance that its on.

You OK with me having a fairly vague opinion are you?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Metabo
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2019, 06:19 AM »
I don't think your one-time use of a drill "many years ago" really adds anything to the discussion other than noise.

Seemed like a reasonable answer from a person that wasn't blown away by a product to me.

I have a Metabo Steb 140 jigsaw, its not the best jigsaw I've  used, nor the worst. It's OK. Its got an LED light that goes on when I pick it up, seems like a better idea is just having the light on when its connected to a live cable so I can tell at a distance that its on.

You OK with me having a fairly vague opinion are you?

 ;)

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1781
Re: Metabo
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2019, 06:54 AM »
The vagueness he refers to is “I couldn’t get on with it”.  It doesn’t elaborate on the reasons why he didn’t like it.  Then we have added that nobody else on jobsites uses it.  Again, why?  Is the platform of tools insufficient, is the support poor in some way, do the tools fail, do they lack in ergonomics, do the batteries take too long to charge, does the color clash with your trousers?  Obviously there are specific reasons, but if we fail to bring them to light, how is anyone supposed to parse out those shortcomings and decide what is or isn’t important for their intended use?

So if there are specific observations you would like to add, great, let’s hear them.  Otherwise let’s not keep adding to the noise here.
-Raj

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1292
Re: Metabo
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2019, 07:11 AM »
I hear noise when someone is complaining about another member making a noise. That abrupt, rude remark is uncalled for and unnecessary.  [eek]

Are we trying to practise censorship here?

Granted, if a member wanted another member to expand or clarify his or her comment, just ask. Why use a provocative sentence. I could equally argue what makes any of you an undisputed authority on a topic that another member contributes to.

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12058
  • Magnum - My new little boy
Re: Metabo
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2019, 08:29 AM »
Please let’s not let this thread go further south.

Peter Halle-Moderator

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Metabo
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2019, 08:50 AM »
The vagueness he refers to is “I couldn’t get on with it”.  It doesn’t elaborate on the reasons why he didn’t like it.  Then we have added that nobody else on jobsites uses it.  Again, why?  Is the platform of tools insufficient, is the support poor in some way, do the tools fail, do they lack in ergonomics, do the batteries take too long to charge, does the color clash with your trousers?  Obviously there are specific reasons, but if we fail to bring them to light, how is anyone supposed to parse out those shortcomings and decide what is or isn’t important for their intended use?

So if there are specific observations you would like to add, great, let’s hear them.  Otherwise let’s not keep adding to the noise here.

Ok, I like to be fair, and reasonable, so I'll elaborate a little more on the drill.
At the time of being presented with the drill/driver I was a user of mainly Makita tools both corded and cordless, and a fair bit of Elu, routers, table and mitre saws etc.
So, we had plenty of Makita cordless drill drivers. The supplier was a Metabo stockist, and was constantly trying to covert me to the brand.
When he gave me the drill, although brand new, it looked old and outdated in design, and did not have the ergonomics of my drills or any other current brand offerings.
It is still in the skip outside of the workshop, if I can find an old Makita of the time, I'll post pics up of both, so that everybody can see what I'm talking about.
The drill reverse switch, was a flimsy plastic paddle that protruded out between the top of the trigger and the casing, looked like it would last about 5 minutes. The tool was not balanced or comfortable, lacked power, had terrible battery life, and also a lengthy battery charge time.
It was a world away from the Makitas of the time, or anything else. It resembled a cheap DIY centre tool, or an occasional use tool for a handy man.
Four or five of us tried it out, for the working week but, nobody liked it, nobody had anything good to say about it. As I said, I couldn't give it away.

Not my own experiences but, I have friends and colleagues that have owned various Metabo tools, and the feedback hasn't been great, or mediocre at best. I know somebody that had untold problems with a Metabo planer thicknesser, another with a mitre saw that was replaced three times before a refund. They have had major issues with grinders too.
Whenever I see anything German manufactured, it nearly always means quality, precision engineering and design, and as a consequence great durability.
The Germans build everything to a very high standard. Houses, cars, guns, tools and just about everything else. I don't now, or have never seen this quality with Metabo, and the fact they were bought by a Japanese company tells me they weren't very successful?
There are almost certainly firm fans of Metabo out there, and I would imagine if that's true, the majority of them are hobbyist or DIY users where products aren't worked so hard, or so frequent as in a professional environment, as I mentioned earlier, I see very little Metabo tools being used on building sites of all types and sizes.
My own experience, and the others that used the drill, was more or less how I expected it to be, after seeing various Metabo tools, and inspecting them, not very innovative in my opinion.

Most of the sites I'm on you'll see mainly, Makita, De walt, Milwaukee, Festool, Fein, Mafell. Sometimes some Panasonic, and some Hitachi, and a fair bit of Erbauer (Screwfix own brand) and some other cheap and cheerful tools but, I really don'y come across much Metabo. Maybe the odd drill etc but, not much at all.
It's not one of the popular brands here, at least professionally. There's probably a reason for that?

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1781
Re: Metabo
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2019, 12:23 PM »
That was great! Thanks for elaborating!! 
-Raj

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Metabo
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2019, 03:26 PM »
That was great! Thanks for elaborating!!

You’re welcome  ;)

Offline MF Custom

  • Posts: 11
Re: Metabo
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2019, 08:54 PM »
The latest Metabo cordless lineup with the new LIHD 18 volt batteries are real nice well built quality tools. I've been so impressed I keep adding to my Metabo cordless collection. Next is a cordless jigsaw the Metabo STA 140 what a nice unit.

Offline rylim

  • Posts: 93
Re: Metabo
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2019, 01:04 AM »
To be clear for those in the United States there are two different Metabo companies: Metabo and Metabo HPT (formerly Hitachi Power Tools). A reasonable person would assume the cordless products would be compatible between the two, but they are not. Why there would not be consolidation of the cordless platform is beyond belief and will lead to customer confusion and eventually disappointment.
Hitachi acquired Metabo only in 2016. Obviously, with millions of units in circulation from both companies they can't suddenly make them compatible. They will have to support both platforms for a while. Perhaps new models will be the compatible.

FYI, the Hitachi Power Tools division was purchased by American Company, KKR, Henry Kravis' investment firm in 2017. https://www.core77.com/posts/80207/Hitachi-Power-Tools-is-Changing-Their-Name-to-Metabo%E2%80%94But-Metabos-Tools-Will-Still-Be-Different

So KKR now owns Metabo and Hitachi Power Tools
Sale: Festool 498899 Assorted Domino Beech Tenons Set with Cutter Bits (5-Bits)- New - $265

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 597
Re: Metabo
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2019, 01:08 AM »
Metabo's plan moving forward is to maintain separate platforms according to several articles I have read. Considering they do not share a common website at this point (3 years in) I don't anticipate any other changes. Marketing wise they should have just kept the Hitachi name until they could make the changes necessary to share battery technologies.

They couldn't keep the Hitachi name as Hitachi don't own it, as they are no longer Hitachi.

Metabo HPT

I would argue it would be a good time to invent a new name.  Maybe Menards should have pushed on them to rename to "Masterforce" so it all blends in even better in the stores.

Still mergers don't work smooth, companies generally run as they were when they were not one company.  Users of one side or the other want their system to live on, and companies may just keep both, or even kill both and then folks get really mad.

Offline forestmount

  • Posts: 7
Re: Metabo
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2019, 05:35 AM »
Reading this thread in full I thought I might weigh in for what my opinion is worth.

I have an older Metabo corded drill and angle grinder. I actually bought these items after a very premature Makita angle grinder failure 20 years ago. (Less than 10 minutes use).
I see many recommendations for Makita, not my experience but maybe I am tainted as the reseller refused warranty for a product I owned for one month that cost me $2 a minute on my first use grinding my 1/2 inch mild steel bolt.

Perhaps not relevant but to paint a picture I am an owner builder and weekend warrior in no hurry to change out my older Metabo tools and have never bought Makita since. I don’t abuse tools but neither do I wrap them in cotton wool.

Fast forward until 2017 I had to replace my much loved cordless Milwaukee cordless drill I used for years for the above reasons and assembling bespoke electronics for earthmoving equipment - repetitive low strain work for a drill, removing screws etc.

It was not impressed with the look and feel of the non US made Milwaukee so I opted for the cordless Metabo drill and angle grinder kit.

I love this kit

The drill has great controls for speed and torque.
The angle grinder is a little legend for ease and power but remember I don’t use the grinder for assembly only my weekend warrior jobs.



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Offline PatR

  • Posts: 190
Re: Metabo
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2019, 08:18 AM »
I have several Metabo tools bought over a 30 year span after seeing them being used on German building sites where they competed head to head with the Festo and Protool brands at the upper end of the market.

They have never once let me down and I have been very impressed with the performance of every one. The newer tools tend to be Made in China and though my Metabo's are predominately made in (West) Germany, the 18v angle grinder is Chinese and a superb tool as is the little 12v Drill/driver.

The little Chinese made Metabo KGS 216 I bought for a song was 100% accurate out of the box unlike its 5 x more expensive Kapex KS120. :-\

It is a measure of the quality of the brand that Metabo make Mafell's 18v and 12v drills and whilst they are excellent, I have saved many beer tokens by opting for green rather than red.

But horses for courses, its a personal thing and one mans meat etc but the only two tools that I have ever sent back for a refund were the very disappointing Mafell DDF40 and that paragon of wood dividing non-excellence, The Festool Carvex.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 348
Re: Metabo
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2019, 11:57 AM »
There's been a few changes in my own Metabo tool lineup (& impressions) since I last posted to this thread a decade or so ago.

I still have Metabo's grinders.  9" x 2, 6" x one, 5" x 5.  Of these one 9" & one 5" are cordless.  The big 'un is superb; just as powerful but slightly deeper cutting than my corded version & surprisingly better-balanced too considering (or as I suspect because) it uses two big 8.0 AH batteries @ the back!  The 5" cordless I'd describe as just OK.  No better than anybody else's equivalent, which surprised me.  It replaced a much older non-EC Robert Bosch, which I consider in every way apart from runtime every bit as good as the newer Metabo.  It's also one of the rare tools that I've ever had to return for warranty repair.  Apart from this anomalous tool the rest are superb, powerful, versatile, ergonomic and reliable. All of the corded 5" are specialist tools:  a bigger two-hand old version of my 6" grinder, one lower V-speed for stonework, one ultra-low V-speed one for Stainless processing, sanding and wood carving & another quite old (30yrs?) extremely heavily used compact V-speed one that I once used for everything, but now just for carving.  In my opinion, nobody makes better grinders.  I still have a big 12" Robert Bosch grinder/diamond floor saw too.

I also have an amazing little triple-reduction keyed chuck drill with a puny 750 watts and about 650 RPM max that will out-torque any other drill that I've ever used.  Seriously.  I've driven 7" diameter earth augers with it!  It's more torquey (75nm) than my 1500W Bosch coring drill!  It almost ludicrously compact & lightweight, but fits all the 43mm accessories from their cordless range:  angle drives, offset, keyed and keyless chucks & even the incredible additional triple reduction gearbox (a 6 x reduction in total making for an unprecedented 215 nm - less some friction losses - @ 220 RPM).

I'd love to have some more corded Metabo drills.  Most are super, but unjustifiable as I still have a useful collection of very old AEG/Atlas Copco single & 2-speed hammer drills (4) that will undoubtedly outlast me.

Whilst Bosch is still (I believe) the world's premier manufacturer of SDS Plus & Max hammers (I once had 5), I nevertheless have an older Metabo inline 1,700W Max combi-hammer which was (& I suspect still is) the most powerful hammer that still drills.  It has a useful 20 J of impact, and a genuine 52mm solid quad-tipped hammer drilling capacity in stone.  There's more modern Max hammers around now, but none (I think) as powerful.  I like its (now rare) inline design.  Most Pneumatic hammers have transverse  (or 'L'-shaped crank-to-piston drive mechanisms).  Its long length makes it less useful for holding horizontally (both too long & heavy), but ideal for such esoterica as trenching, breaking slabs & the occasional big doleritic boulder & even spading hard-packed soil & clay for tree planting & gardening.  For me, its a viable, economical & much lighter alternative to a Wacker-Neuson hex hammer or equiv.

I still use a couple of little Metabo SXE 400 sanders, simply because they perform so well and will accomplish tasks impossible for lesser tools.  Tiny, lightweight, slim, gentle and extremely easy to handle.  Everything, for instance, that my diabolical flamin' RO90Dx Festool wasn't.

I've had both STE 135 & 140 Jigsaws.  Whilst neither are the equal of Mafell's beauty in natural & synthetic wood derivatives they're both way better than Festool's flawed Trion version.  They're also the only jigsaws that I trust for heavy duty 2-10mm steel cutting, better even than the more powerful Bosch Jiggies.  I especially like the headlights, switchable blower and auto-accelerator function of Metabo's 140 Plus version.

Which brings me to Metabo's cordless range.  Somebody above said that "not all Metabos are equal" or words to that effect.  I even stated that I was "unimpressed" with their cordless range.  In some ways, this is still true, but in others it's also simultaneously a furlong wide of the mark.

Simply put, Metabo uses the world's best battery system.  Their LiHD batteries (& Robert Bosch's ProCore equivalent) are the current absolute gold standard.  It's so good, in fact, that many other high quality, specialist German tool manufacturers share the battery interface and format with Metabo.  Meaning that you also have access to Mafell's superb range of Cordless saws (also the current gold standard), Rothenberger's range of plumbing press tools, Collomix mixers, Eisenblaetter's sander/grinders, Starmix & Rokamat vacs, the latter's hot-wire cutters, concrete grinders & pokers, plaster sponge floats & backpacks.  Plus Steinel's cordless hot-air guns, & undoubtedly others to come are all part of the so-called Cordless Alliance System which use this common battery interface.

Of course, quality doesn't come cheap.  Most are what I consider to be true professional grade tools, with commensurate pricing.  Metabo actually (at least in their cordless drill range) offer some less expensive or professional product lines too, which are much cheaper, smaller, lighter and of somewhat reduced capacity.  As always, the highest quality tools in the range/s still retain Teutonic manufacture.

For those already heavily invested in Hitachi-Koki/Hikoki/HPT, Makita or Milwaukee this is all probably irrelevant as these 3 manufactures already make a huge & versatile range of budget-priced & often adequately performing cordless tools anyway with their own proprietary but incompatible & slightly sub-standard batteries.  The major difference is that the CAS collectively make a much smaller but nevertheless generally extremely high quality (& occasionally world's-best, but also unfortunately occasionally slightly dodgy too) specialist and generalist tools.  Currently there's a "mere" 130 cordless tools available from the CAS, which is I'm guessing dwarfed by the rather bewildering array of offerings from the East Asian tool companies.

Whereas Metabo once made pretty junk cordless tools (their Saber & Circular Saws still are) their top-shelf drills are literally state of the art.  I have a fantastic 3 speed non-hammer drill that is relatively light, fast, compact and awesomely powerful.  It drives 32mm Speedbors with relative ease in Eucalyptus hardwood (previously impossible for a cordless tool from any manufacturer), 52mm spade bits and big single-flute augers.  Yet also drills 1/8" pop rivet holes in sheet metal faster than any other drill I've ever used (@3400 RPM).  Another (Tapping) drill will also drill & tap holes in 1/2" solid steel, automatically, seamlessly & intuitively reverse/drive cycling the regulation backwards 1/2 turn and forwards 1-1 1/2 turns, dependent merely on hand pressure.

Metabo's fantastic Quick chuck and accessory range is an absolute highlight for me.  As the rather gimmicky name suggests, these are rapidly & easily exchanged between every "Quick" suffixed drill in the corded and cordless ranges, including that amazing triple reduction gearbox with its 12-14" long handle that I've already raved about.  A choice of very strong all-metal chucks, hex-bit holder, alloy angle and offset drives make the new Bosch equivalents look rather puny & plasticky in comparison.

Of my other Metabo cordless, there's a fantastic, big powerful floodlight that I find equally at home in a darkened room or mounted on the roof for backyard BBQs.  An OK (probably not as good as Makita's best) EC Rattler, a hideously expensive but extremely useful & fast auto Riveter, an extremely lightweight, accurate & surprisingly capacious older SCMS (that is now probably surpassed by the latest Makita & Hikoki releases) & the aforementioned pair of little & large cordless grinders.

Plus a couple of Mafell's finest cordless tracksaws:  Plunge and Circular/Crosscutting Combi.

Of my own personal collection of cordless CAS tools I'm actually - at last - delighted.  I'm not easily pleased & even more seldom impressed, but those that I'm using are nothing short of superb, if not approaching (with the possible exceptions of the smaller Grinder & the Rattler) the very best currently available anywhere or from any manufacturer.

Of the tools that I've been using over the past 40 years or so I'm still impressed.  Of (almost all of) those cordless tools that I've acquired & used over the last 5 I'm honestly delighted.  A rare but serendipitous combination of modern, sophisticated features & strength.  Highly recommended.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 12:54 PM by aloysius »
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline MF Custom

  • Posts: 11
Re: Metabo
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2019, 12:25 PM »
Anyone have experience with this Metabo cordless circular saw? this saw has a base plate that also works on guide rail tracks. I figure this unit with the newer 8.0 amp hour LIHD battery would be a nice cordless saw option especially if it will also ride on my Mafell/Bosch guide rails...
https://www.metabo.com/us/enus/tools/cordless-tools/cordless-circular-saw/ks-18-ltx-57-601857890-6-1-2-cordless-circular-saw.html
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 01:27 PM by MF Custom »

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 348
Re: Metabo
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2019, 12:29 PM »
TLDR my last post?

It's rubbish!  Try the Bosch, which also (obviously) runs on the Bosch/Mafell tracks.  Bobbie Bosch does a 12.0 AH battery.

https://www.bosch-professional.com/de/de/products/gks-18v-57-g-06016A2101

Or one of the Mafells;  K55 or 65, KSS40, 50 or 60 or MT55 (all 18 Bl) if you want CAS compatibility.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 12:48 PM by aloysius »
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline MF Custom

  • Posts: 11
Re: Metabo
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2019, 01:32 PM »
I don't think that model Bosch saw is available in the U.S.  I also own a Mafell KSS 40, the Bosch saw looks a bit similar? I do like the fact that my Mafell and Metabo share the same battery platform and that is part of the reason I was interested in the Metabo KS 57. May I ask why you say the Metabo KS 57 is rubbish?

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 348
Re: Metabo
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2019, 07:52 PM »
Not me, but the lads o'er @ the MUF are extremely scathing of its performance, or rather lack thereof.

I believe that a touch of arbor float is but one of its vices.  It also won't align precisely with the same splinter guard edge produced by your Mafell track saw.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline MF Custom

  • Posts: 11
Re: Metabo
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2019, 10:04 PM »
I did read some of those Metabo complaints mostly from one user. I would like to hear more reviews of the KS 57...  I really love the Metabo battery platform. Makita also has a new 18 volt x 2 cordless circular saw that has a track saw base on it. Looks like a nice unit?   

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5895
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Metabo
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2019, 10:59 PM »
Tools of the trade did a review of the new Metabo cordless table saw.

He gave it a good review.

Thats about all I know about it.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 348
Re: Metabo
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2019, 11:13 PM »
Tools of the trade did a review of the new Metabo cordless table saw.

He gave it a good review.

Thats about all I know about it.

I've had the corded version for about 5-6 years now.  It's OK.  Extremely well packaged, folds up to an ultra-compact shallow depthed square-ish topped 'cube'that  fits in just about any corner, car boot etc. yet it extends to a 24" cut saw with full height legs etc.  It's also pretty powerful (2200w?).  Given that the cordless version would be using the 9" grinders EC motor, I'd imagine that would likewise be fairly powerful too once allowed to climb up to full speed first.

My main complaint is the rather cheesy onboard arbor nut spanner that simply cannot cope with the nut's hard metal.  It makes for a frustrating blade change & tightening sequence.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 589
Re: Metabo
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2019, 01:59 AM »
I’ve owned many Metabo tools and still do.
Quality range is from complete rubbish to great but with many quibbles.
Their good stuff lasts forever though.