Author Topic: Makita track versus Festool Track  (Read 21411 times)

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Offline cs281

  • Posts: 8
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2019, 08:18 AM »
Rather than waste more time, I ended up buying 2 of the Festool rails to replace the Makita ones. They work perfectly. Lesson learned here is my time is worth more than the purported cost savings!
In case you want to connect them I suggest you go for the Makita or TSO connectors, these are better than the Festools ones.

Yes I've still got the Makita connectors so will make use of them.

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Offline VirTERM

  • Posts: 63
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2019, 07:26 PM »
Rather than waste more time, I ended up buying 2 of the Festool rails to replace the Makita ones. They work perfectly. Lesson learned here is my time is worth more than the purported cost savings!
In case you want to connect them I suggest you go for the Makita or TSO connectors, these are better than the Festools ones.
or Triton connectors, Makita like but sold in pairs for much less.

Online Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 826
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2019, 02:50 AM »
I haven’t suffered with the strips binding or cutting into my saw bases but, I regularly give the rails a quick squirt of silicone spray.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 582
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2019, 07:20 AM »
If you look at the glide strips I feel like the difference is obvious. The makita ones practically look like sandpaper compared to the ultra smooth glossy ones on the FT tracks.

I've had two SP6000s in the last 6-7 years that are my 'beater' saws and I watched the rails grind grooves into both. They were used heavily. Never used my TS on the makita rails, but when I saw someone on a job who was, I checked his base plate and the grooves were there.

I suggest people using makita rails just keep an eye on their base plates over time and decide if the rate of wear they are experiencing is worth acting on. .
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 385
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2019, 09:56 AM »
mrB said "The makita ones practically look like sandpaper compared to the ultra smooth glossy ones on the FT tracks."

The Makita and Festool anti-friction strips are made of similar materials. The Makita strips have ridges that will reduce contact area and further reduce friction. Lots of woodworking machines have the table surface milled like this to reduce friction.

I have both Makita and Festool tracks and the base of my saws do not have grooves cut into them. I don't get the sandpaper analogy at all?
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Online Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 826
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2019, 11:57 AM »
My makita plunge saw is the DSP601ZJU which is a 36v cordless with bluetooth. I’m pretty sure the base is very similar or the same as the SP6000 out of memory? Mine get used regularly in a professional environment on a regular basis, often daily on some jobs. I’m not getting the excessive wear though.

I have a feeling technique plays a part on the amount of wear, and how quick.
I often just lay my rails onto the workpiece, and only clamp when necessary but, I have seen users pushing down hard when sawing, maybe thinking it will help stop the rail moving?
I’m sure that this style of use would cause premature wear regardless of brand.

I’m not suggesting mrB is doing this but, I have seen trades doing such many times.
Just a thought.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 405
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2019, 12:22 PM »
mrB said "The makita ones practically look like sandpaper compared to the ultra smooth glossy ones on the FT tracks."

The Makita and Festool anti-friction strips are made of similar materials. The Makita strips have ridges that will reduce contact area and further reduce friction. Lots of woodworking machines have the table surface milled like this to reduce friction.

I have both Makita and Festool tracks and the base of my saws do not have grooves cut into them. I don't get the sandpaper analogy at all?

My Makita 36v saw is not that old and I see the wear make already. Maybe I’m pushing too hard.

I was taught friction force is the friction coefficient x normal force applied to the surface. So the grooves in the Makita don’t reduce the friction force but they due cause much higher load per unit area - thus higher wear. Maybe grooves are there to collect dust/debris?

Mike

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 405
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2019, 12:27 PM »
@cs281
 I see no reason why you couldn’t swap the bike Makita glide strips from the green Festool ones and solve this issue, but do it sooner than later!

After spending hours cleaning off the adhesive from the Makita rails and installing the festool strips, I noticed a slight crowning of the rail meaning my HK55 would slide across the aluminium in the centre of the track, rendering it useless. I imagine this is because the festool guide strips may be 0.5mm thinner and also the double sided tape isn't as thick.

Rather than waste more time, I ended up buying 2 of the Festool rails to replace the Makita ones. They work perfectly. Lesson learned here is my time is worth more than the purported cost savings!

@cs281

You said the Makita wear strips are about 0.5mm thicker than Festool. Is it possible for you to provide more exact measurements?

Thanks

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 385
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2019, 12:38 PM »
With the Makita having the grooved strip they will have more PSI because of less surface area but the material is not abrasive. I would doubt the friction coefficient is very different between the Makita and Festool tracks.

I think Jiggy may be on to something when I use the saw without clamping I reach over in front or behind and hold the track down, I don't hold down on the saw with more pressure. Both my TS75 and the Makita bases show all over scratches but no wear from the strips. I have used both saws on the Makita tracks extensively.

It seems odd a material chosen to be low friction would abrade the base.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline cs281

  • Posts: 8
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2019, 04:15 PM »
With the Makita having the grooved strip they will have more PSI because of less surface area but the material is not abrasive. I would doubt the friction coefficient is very different between the Makita and Festool tracks.

Perhaps it could simply be a case of sawdust, etc getting in between the grooves and wearing the paint, rather than the magnesium base?

After changing the strips, the key thing that concerned me more was that both of my Makita tracks were crowned in the middle causing the centre of the base to drag along the aluminum extrusion. This was slightly less of an issue with the Makita strips as they must be a tad thicker, but I could feel it catch depending on how how much pressure was exerted. The FS rail doesn't have this problem for me.

@Mike Goetzke - apologies, I haven't got any calipers to measure the makita strip thickness and my eye sight's too junk to use my steel rule!



Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 385
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2019, 05:23 PM »
cs281 "Perhaps it could simply be a case of sawdust, etc getting in between the grooves and wearing the paint, rather than the magnesium base?"

That would make more sense than the strip wearing the base.

Wow your tracks must have had a good cup in them to have the saw drag in the middle.

I heard that Makita had issues with the quality of their tracks for a period of time but all of mine have been good. (Knock on wood)
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 405
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2019, 10:23 PM »
Now that I saw wear on my slightly used saw I went to look at my Makita rail. I have four but looked at the one I had handy.

I think we are on to something. The ridges on the strip I believe are supposed to be radiused or rounded. If you look at the pic you can see some rounded but some are almost knife edged!




Offline cs281

  • Posts: 8
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2019, 12:20 AM »
There's a chance though that the ribs might simply be scratching in to the painted finish rather than the magnesium base.

As a test, you could grab some aluminium, for example and push it along the strips a few times to see if you get any wear or grooves. I tried this with my speed square and I didn't really notice a problem (although perhaps the anodising is protecting it?

« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 04:33 AM by cs281 »

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 405
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #73 on: October 28, 2019, 10:39 AM »
@cs281  Was just wondering would it be possible to reverse the Makita wear strip to have a smooth side on top? (I realize you would need to clean up adhesive and apply new adhesive.)

Thanks
Mike

Online Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 826
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2019, 10:53 AM »
The Makita strips are grooved, maybe to cut down on friction? The Festool strips are flat, more friction possibly?

Or maybe Makita got it wrong, as dust and dirt can get into the grooves, causing damage to the base, and Festool’s being flat, has nowhere to house dirt and debris, who knows?

As I say, I use silicone spray on the strips, and maybe as a caution, I’ll regularly use a nail brush or similar to keep the grooves clean.
Right now though, I’m not seeing premature wear.

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 385
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #75 on: October 28, 2019, 11:48 AM »
I use waxlit from Lee Valley as a lube  but just on the saw base not the strips. I have seen no signs of wear on the base on either saw Makita or Festool TS75.

I am more concerned about the Base on the TS75 as the alignment notch does not have a replaceable insert like the TS55, if it wears you need to replace the saw base$$$$$ I use the Makita for most jobs and just use the TS75 where I need the depth of cut.
 
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1910
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #76 on: October 28, 2019, 02:23 PM »
@cs281  Was just wondering would it be possible to reverse the Makita wear strip to have a smooth side on top? (I realize you would need to clean up adhesive and apply new adhesive.)
Thanks
Mike
I would rather smooth the strips with a shoulder plane and attach self-adhesive UHMW polyethylene tape on top. It is durable and more slippery than either Festool or Makita strips.
Even better to replace the original strips with UHMW entirely if you could find tape of the same thickness.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 02:32 PM by Svar »

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 405
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #77 on: October 28, 2019, 08:39 PM »
There's a chance though that the ribs might simply be scratching in to the painted finish rather than the magnesium base.

As a test, you could grab some aluminium, for example and push it along the strips a few times to see if you get any wear or grooves. I tried this with my speed square and I didn't really notice a problem (although perhaps the anodising is protecting it?

Measured the marks in my saw base relative to the guide rail and worn grooves are inline with tops of ridges in the glide strip.

Took piece of MDF and lightly slid it along the rail and cut marks were easily visible.

So me being the type that can’t leave things alone did this:




Was easier to remove and replace than anticipated. I cleaned the top well and tried to start to remove it from the far end and the adhesive stuck to the rail. So flipped it over and used a roller to apply pressure to it and it seems to be adhering well. Did this to my 39” rail and will see how it holds up before attacking the others. I applied a little paste wax to the saw base and strips and the saw glides easily.

Mike

Offline cs281

  • Posts: 8
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #78 on: October 29, 2019, 12:34 AM »
Was easier to remove and replace than anticipated. I cleaned the top well and tried to start to remove it from the far end and the adhesive stuck to the rail. So flipped it over and used a roller to apply pressure to it and it seems to be adhering well. Did this to my 39” rail and will see how it holds up before attacking the others. I applied a little paste wax to the saw base and strips and the saw glides easily.

I was thinking about doing this! - but thought the ribs would give less surface area for adhesion - in fact looking back, it would have been easier to do as the strips came off very cleanly bar one end. Live and learn I guess. I think the Makita double sided tape is Nitto 500 if you need it, but if you buy with the strips its pre-applied.

I don't want to waste anymore Festool double sided tape as I doubt Festool would supply it on its own (I've put the green strips back in the box to save for a rainy day) but I might give this a go and maybe offload the Makita tracks.

Hopefully this puts a few paranoid minds at ease.

For reference sake, here's a photo of my HK55 sitting on the Makita track  - it just scrapes along the middle enough to bother me and you can kind of see the curvature, however it does work. This doesn't happen at all with the Festool tracks which just feel stronger and don't bend along the length.

Offline netsaver

  • Posts: 2
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #79 on: November 22, 2019, 03:39 PM »
My question is somewhat related, since I have all of you Makita and Festool Track guys here:

Considering getting the DSP601 cordless makita saw but i want to use it interchangeably with my TS55 on all my festool tracks.

can someone maybe elaborate a bit on track edge alignment? maybe even some images would be highly appreciated.
will the sawblade be flush with the festool splinter guard?
will the tsc55?

i would like to stick with the makita batteries, dont really feel like 2 sets of batterie and chargers if i ca. avoid it, but on my MFT i cant really change the track all the time...

Thank you,
Thomas
QUADRIL PD 20/4 / TS55 REBQ / CARVEX 420 + Addons / OF1400 Set / DOMINO + Set / CMS TS + OF / CMS Slider / KS1400

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 582
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #80 on: November 22, 2019, 08:06 PM »
There is screws in the saw base of the ts55 that alter this. It's fairly obvious once you located, but I'm sure someone will be able to point you to a guide on how to adjust.
No idea how or if the makita is adjustable as I've never used/seen the model you are talking about. But the festool adults so you can match that to the makita at the very least.
Festool apparently try to match all their saws from the factory but my TS55 and HKC weren't really even close. .
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 405
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #81 on: November 22, 2019, 08:33 PM »
@netsaver

As mrB said the Makita also has screws in the base for adjustment. I think the supplemental Festool manual has a good way to make the adjustments using a thick board clamped to the rail.

If you have both Festool and Makita rail you also need to adjust the tracking adjustment when switching rails.

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 450
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #82 on: November 23, 2019, 06:01 AM »
I have just bought a new base for my TS 55 as the grooves in it are so deep that the base of the saw is now more or less riding on the aluminium track, mind you the saw is 15 years old and worked hard so I can't complain.

I think the wear is caused by dirt, fine grit etc as I probably don't keep my rails as clean as I should.

Respect to Festool that I can still buy a base for my 15yr old saw  [smile], it is slightly different to the old one so I presume it is the same base as on the current TS 55.

Will be fitting it this weekend if anyone has any tips or advice on swapping them over?

Doug

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4323
Re: Makita track versus Festool Track
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2019, 12:26 PM »
The downside of the plastic glide strips is that abrasive grit can become embedded and then scratch the saw base. Some plastics are more susceptible than others.

Don’t know how Makita compares to FT but I’d stick to one brand of track to avoid having to make adjustments to the saw. It’s not fun and because the mount blocks are plastic (and they get embossed by the metal parts) it can be extremely difficult to get it just right.