Author Topic: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools  (Read 16556 times)

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2019, 12:09 AM »
What about power?  18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

Michael...why do you butt in and ruin my sugar high?  [tongue]

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2019, 12:21 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4268
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2019, 12:24 AM »
I’m trying to figure this out too. The only thing I’m sure of is I have too many saws.

AT 65 (used for dense stuff), ATF 55 (with tiny thin kerf Freud blade for pocket cuts in face grain ply), TS 55 (for general use but usually melamine), HKC 55 (and rails for what it’s good for), TSC 55 (for going cordless), TS 75 for deep cuts and aluminum extrusions).

So, the MT55 @18v is much less appealing to me than the doweler but it’s still appealing...and so is the little cordless saw and it’s Flexi-Rail.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #93 on: August 05, 2019, 12:46 AM »
I’m trying to figure this out too. The only thing I’m sure of is I have too many saws.

AT 65 (used for dense stuff), ATF 55 (with tiny thin kerf Freud blade for pocket cuts in face grain ply), TS 55 (for general use but usually melamine), HKC 55 (and rails for what it’s good for), TSC 55 (for going cordless), TS 75 for deep cuts and aluminum extrusions).

So, the MT55 @18v is much less appealing to me than the doweler but it’s still appealing...and so is the little cordless saw and it’s Flexi-Rail.

And we have less than 60 days to decide... [eek]...I think the MT55 will take the place of the TS 75 for deep cuts (cut from both sides, plus a little jointer action) and it will also certainly handle the aluminum cutting.

It then becomes corded versus cordless. I find it difficult to not embrace cordless tools 100%. I"m finding I'm now using my ETSC cordless sander 5X more than the ETS EC 125/150 combo. It's portable, it's cordless, it's hoseless. It's a pleasure to use.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2681
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #94 on: August 05, 2019, 12:57 AM »
Personally I think that the TSC55 will outperform the Mafell - just because of the voltage. It is one of the tools where I feel that Festool got everything right. Now if you wanted to consolidate rail systems then that is a different matter. I see a corded MT55 and Duo Dowler in my future.

FWIW - Acme has great prices on Bosch rails - just got the long Bosch rail for the price of the Mafell 1600 rail.

Offline P2P

  • Posts: 51
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #95 on: August 05, 2019, 01:33 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

Ha!  You might be right!  My new P1cc showed up about a week ago.  Will be using it for the first time on a project in about a week.  Can't wait to put it to use!

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #96 on: August 05, 2019, 02:39 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

 [big grin]  [thumbs up]

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1869
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #97 on: August 05, 2019, 02:49 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
Reading this thread the temptation is great and growing. If I end up buying something I'll hold FOG community responsible.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:52 AM by Svar »

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 156
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #98 on: August 05, 2019, 04:59 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
^True story^  [big grin]

After reading about how users feel about the P1CC and watching countless videos (yours too ScotF) I'm in delivery page refresh mode. A few findings that may help tip others over the edge:

  • By the Bosch rails as they appear to be exactly the same as the Mafell but in blue... and way cheaper. Bosch make them for Mafell from what I can see
  • The rails ability to clamp right next to the cut line looks great for working with narrower stock. Festool sized clamps won't fit the track so be prepared to say, "you're ****ing kidding me!" when you see the price of the bosch FSN rail clamps. I hunted around and found a pair in the UK (from FFX) for just over £50 a pair. You can pay double that, easily
  • I have a festool plug-it connector en route to try getting it swapped over. It looks to be a straight forward switch both being 240V.  Someone detailed swapping over their DuoDowler on the Mafell users forum (https://bit.ly/2YCbNa4) and the process should be similar.
  • To all intents and purposes, the Mafell jigsaw blades (except the W1) have direct and way cheaper Bosch equivalents. Again, credit to the Mafell forum for the detective work on this https://bit.ly/2SXBjoU

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1779
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #99 on: August 05, 2019, 07:32 AM »
What about power?  18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

You know, I forgot about that.  You’re absolutely right.  That would certainly make me rethink a cordless MT55 as my only tracksaw, especially if you’re using it on hardwoods.
-Raj

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4268
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #100 on: August 05, 2019, 09:44 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
Reading this thread the temptation is great and growing. If I end up buying something I'll hold FOG community responsible.

@Svar   You are a critical thinker on the subject of tools. I’d like to know which Mafells have held your interest.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4268
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #101 on: August 05, 2019, 10:25 AM »
The Mafell track system is trying to get me to buy yet another saw.

Easy and reliable joining of track sections
Aero-Fix clamping (using the vacuum suction to hold the rail to the work)
clamping the rail to narrow stock

If the Flexi-Rail was also compatible with the MT55 I’d be sold...

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #102 on: August 05, 2019, 10:30 AM »
What about power?  18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

Go figure...this may not be an issue. Recently I actually had better luck ripping aromatic cedar with the 18v HKC than using the 36V TSC.

See reply 21:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/hk-55-has-ts-55-motor/msg581440/#msg581440

Starting at reply 4:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/tsc-55-blade-marks-in-aromatic-cedar/msg579336/#msg579336

I also noticed that the Mafell blades all have a 1.8 mm thick kerf like the HKC. That's a 20% smaller kerf.

Also of note is Mafell offers a 162 mm diameter blade so that the MT 55 has a true 2" depth capacity when using it on a rail.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 11:59 AM by Cheese »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4268
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #103 on: August 05, 2019, 01:25 PM »
Talked with a friendly knowledgeable guy at Timberwolf.

Some facts to consider,

MT55 cordless runs at 4850 rpm, and does not have a riving knife. Mafell claimed the knife was not needed on their MT55 (corded) because it runs at higher speed, 6200 rpm. (A side note, my old ATF55 has started randomly bypassing the speed control system on it's own, something I've desired for a long time. Yesterday it started up out of the gate like a screaming banshee, I'm guessing 6500 rpm. Cut great! No shuddering. Out of curiosity I fiddled with the speed control dial and imediately the speed was governed and the grinding returned. [mad])

The neat little Flexi-Rail that curls up in a Systainer can be used with larger saws at 90 degrees with no issue but because it is very thin the cut line on bevel cuts will be outboard of the splinter guard.

Bosch guide rails are made in the Mafell factory and are no different except in color. There will be/are Bosch rails with holes punched for use with a Bosch router base, probably to imitate the LR32 system.

The DDF 40 Duo dowewler comes with two 8mm bits and two 6mm bits. Can not swap the 6mm bits for the 5mm bits I'd prefer so thats an extra $78.

All Mafell products have to be shipped according to Mafell's scope of delivery. So the slightly larger (crosscuts 16" instead of the under 10" of the KSS 400) KSS 500 cordless cutting system comes in a big steel case (31"x12"x11") instead of the familiar Systainer.

Timberwolf ships via FedEx. Supposedly FedEx treats guide rails better than UPS. Shipping is not free as we've become accustomed to with Festools. Buying more than one tool at a time might save a little on shipping?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1869
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2019, 06:26 PM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
Reading this thread the temptation is great and growing. If I end up buying something I'll hold FOG community responsible.
@Svar   You are a critical thinker on the subject of tools. I’d like to know which Mafells have held your interest.
@Michael Kellough I bought gently used P1CC a while ago and was convinced when I needed to cut small accurate circles out of 3/4 ply. Could not believe how well it worked.
Now eyeing a carpentry saw.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 01:28 PM by Svar »

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2681
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #105 on: August 06, 2019, 01:32 AM »
Yes. Buying more saves on shipping...about $15.00 to the west coast buying a MT and Duo Doweler, for example. Other manufacturers make dowel bits...CMT, for example, for less cost than Mafell.

Bosch clamps are cheaper than Mafell screw clamps. The new Mafell quick style are more costly, but can be used as a regular quick clamp should you so choose.

One year warranty...so I am waiting a few weeks to get tools before my next project. I did have to use the warranty with my first P1CC, but Timberwolf service was stellar and  I had a new saw in less than a week.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 695
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #106 on: August 06, 2019, 10:09 AM »
Talked with a friendly knowledgeable guy at Timberwolf.


The staff at Timberwolf Tools are great. They are very knowledgeable about the products they sell, and many of them have visited the Mafell factory in Germany for hands-on training. On the rare occasions that I've asked a question they didn't immediately have an answer for, they followed up quickly after consulting their notes or reaching out to the mothership.

The big thing to note is the return policy. Timberwolf generally serves the professional market, people who know exactly what they want. So, once you've used a tool, it's yours, don't try to return it because you don't like the color or you didn't understand what you were buying. Also, to qualify for the warranty users must sign a contract stating they are a professional user of power tools. Again, trying to skew away from casual users so they can focus on the professional market.

The Mafell tools are great. I have the KSS-300, KSS-400, KSS-40 18BL, P1cc, DD-40P, Erika 70, and S-35, haven't had a single hiccup with any of them.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 465
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #107 on: August 06, 2019, 11:16 AM »
 Also, to qualify for the warranty users must sign a contract stating they are a professional user of power tool.

I doubt that woud hold up in court in many states in the US.

Offline broseiden

  • Posts: 59
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #108 on: August 06, 2019, 11:33 AM »
Hey Tom -- I've been reading about the KSS 300 vs KSS 400, and I know there is some overlap in their functionality. Hoping you could offer some input on what might be the best choice for me, at least for the first one ;)

Tasks I think using a KSS may help increase my efficiency:

2x6 or 5/4 decking
Stair treads and risers
Stair stringers maybe?
Closet shelving
Trimming door jambs on pre-hungs

I dont see myself using a KSS for flooring (I use shears for LVP) or framing (dont do hip roofs or stuff where the  quick compound miter cutting would be nice). Might be nice for some exterior trim like fascia, or keeping it nearby while doing interior finishing fortaking a bit off of the square end of coped baseboard.

I'm leaning toward the 400 for depth of cut (if KSS works well for stringers and decking) and blade selection.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2724
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #109 on: August 06, 2019, 12:49 PM »
I was reading the Mafell site comments re their jigsaw. Lots of comments on the barrel getting too hot to hold. Is this a real issue?
Birdhunter

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 71
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #110 on: August 06, 2019, 02:24 PM »
I saw the same post as you. My P1cc gets warm, but never has gotten so hot I want to put it down. Not a real problem for me.

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 156
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #111 on: August 06, 2019, 03:23 PM »
P1CC arrived today and just taken it for a spin. Not disappointed at all. Only put it through some 18mm MDF so I don't think I taxed it much ;)

The splinter guards are in no danger of ever falling out like others I've quickly lost on other saws. Once they're in they're not coming out without a fight. The dust connector is similarly tight fitting.

I also noted how accustomed I am to everything wired having a plug-it connection on the tool. That convenience will be restored once the conversion socket arrives.

The W1 blade is "not bad" at all!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #112 on: August 06, 2019, 03:40 PM »
I was reading the Mafell site comments re their jigsaw. Lots of comments on the barrel getting too hot to hold. Is this a real issue?

I use mine outside all the time and I don’t have an issue. I just try to keep it in the shade when I’m not using it. I don’t wear gloves either as opposed to when I used to have the Original Fein.  [crying]

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2681
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #113 on: August 07, 2019, 12:17 AM »
Mine does not get hot...it is similar to every other BG jigsaw I own or use. Even in extended cutting sessions.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #114 on: August 07, 2019, 02:10 AM »
I’m pretty sure that any P1’s that got uncomfortably hot, were found to have a small issue, and were quickly repaired, or more often than not, completely replaced.

I think it boiled down to what some found hot, others did not, so basically, if an issue was raised on warranty, it was sorted very quickly.
So, if you own one of these machines, and it gets hot under normal use, get it sorted.
The machine will get warm like most barrel bodied machines do but, it shouldn’t get hot.

I think this issue was eliminated quite a while ago though.

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 26
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #115 on: August 07, 2019, 04:18 AM »
P1CC arrived today and just taken it for a spin. Not disappointed at all. Only put it through some 18mm MDF so I don't think I taxed it much ;)

The splinter guards are in no danger of ever falling out like others I've quickly lost on other saws. Once they're in they're not coming out without a fight. The dust connector is similarly tight fitting.

I also noted how accustomed I am to everything wired having a plug-it connection on the tool. That convenience will be restored once the conversion socket arrives.

The W1 blade is "not bad" at all!

I echo the same observations.
Yes the splinter guard goes in very tight. With the w1 blade unless you take out the splinter guard you can't remove the blade. Wish this mechanism was a bit smooth. Have to use brute force to take it off.

Also the dust extractor goes in very tight. Wish it was finer. May be with use it could get better.

After i opened the box i might have used the saw for 15 min and noticed it got warm..kinda hot that i noticed it. Also after 1st use a hex nut fell off. Glad i spotted it. Saved it. Reached out to Timber wolf.
Jeff responded immediately with the schematic and pointed that the hex nut was from the tilting base that secures the parallel fence. He was spot on with the observation. I have since put the nut back in.. but could it fall off again? I don't know. Wondering if I should secure it with a dab of glue.
On the heating part Jeff's response was ah well it's normal. Is a 900W motor and it's a barrel grip so you might feel it more. My point was i used it only for 15 min. Anyways i will continue to use it and if it's very noticeable will reach out again.

Point worth sharing is i did not get the feeling that the heating issue was acknowledged enough. Also i did not get the confidence come through to ease the customer. Rather the unsaid message was don't return the tool for this reason. If it's truly broken we will repair it for you.

Also my MT55 (corded) arrived. Beautiful tool. A lot more refined in build quality than the p1cc in my opinion. Superb cut quality. Ran it on the festool rail on my mft. Cut line is further away from the rubber lip. So no assist from the lip to prevent tear out... but absolutley no tear out.. glass smooth cuts. Sheer joy to work with the tool.
I have the ts75 at 13A that makes wayyy more noise when it cuts. The mt55 @ 13.5A is whisper smooth in comparison.  While i can feel the ts75 labor through a cut, mt55 just glides thro and feels as if it is not even cutting. I think it's a combination of a little more power, thin kerf, and a great blade. Lovin it.

P1CC cuts great. Left me wanting a little more refinement. I will be putting it through bigger and longer cuts before i declare if the tool should go back for repair.

For now I'd say timber wolf service is ok. When i read between the lines the message is "you have bought a great tool. And it should work. If it truly is broken we will repair it, but don't return the tool for any reason". And that might throw off a few.
Just sharing my experience. Both Mafell and Timberwolf are great companies and have been around for many years. Im sure if the need arises they would service their customers well. We'll see.


« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 04:23 AM by Blues »

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 156
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #116 on: August 07, 2019, 12:01 PM »
Plug-it conversion done and dusted. Very simple procedure to do and fits nicely in the box too. Yay for no long cable :D

Put a Bosch T344D (the Mafell W3) blade through a 95mm decking post no bother at all... and yes it was a 90 degree cut. Colour me shocked!

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 695
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #117 on: August 08, 2019, 09:04 PM »
Hey Tom -- I've been reading about the KSS 300 vs KSS 400, and I know there is some overlap in their functionality. Hoping you could offer some input on what might be the best choice for me, at least for the first one ;)

Tasks I think using a KSS may help increase my efficiency:

2x6 or 5/4 decking
Stair treads and risers
Stair stringers maybe?
Closet shelving
Trimming door jambs on pre-hungs

I dont see myself using a KSS for flooring (I use shears for LVP) or framing (dont do hip roofs or stuff where the  quick compound miter cutting would be nice). Might be nice for some exterior trim like fascia, or keeping it nearby while doing interior finishing fortaking a bit off of the square end of coped baseboard.

I'm leaning toward the 400 for depth of cut (if KSS works well for stringers and decking) and blade selection.

Sorry for the delay, "busy-busy!".

I think the KSS-40 would be the best match for you, based on what you've described. The KSS-40 is a nice, compact tool that excels at trim and millwork, and is a champ at crosscutting 2x material (no bevel). Paired with a Erika 70 and my P1cc, there's not much I can't cut on a trim project.

If you find yourself cutting a lot of 2x material at a bevel or ripping 2x material, then you may want to look at the KSS-60, KSS-50, or KSS-400. They're fabulous saws (I love my KSS-400) and can absolutely be used for trim and millwork, but due to their size and weight I really prefer them for framing.

My MT55 is a dream in the shop. The Mafell tracks are great, but I still have the option to use Festool tracks if I want to use my TSO parallel guides.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 26
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2019, 05:31 AM »
The MT55 on Festool track works great. But the cut line is further past the rubber lip with no assist to prevent tear out. Still the MT55 provided remarkable glass smooth cuts.  Truly a lovely tool.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4268
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2019, 09:34 AM »
The MT55 on Festool track works great. But the cut line is further past the rubber lip with no assist to prevent tear out. Still the MT55 provided remarkable glass smooth cuts.  Truly a lovely tool.

Can this be adjusted on the MT55 like the TS saws?