Author Topic: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools  (Read 15547 times)

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Offline Cheese

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2019, 01:20 PM »
That's crazy!  I never use my carvex without a ZC insert unless I'm just rough cutting.  And usually I'm not confident enough in the cut quality anyway (as most would be), so I'm backing off curves 1/8-1/4 and use a router table and templates to get the finished product.  That adds time and extra steps.  Even the dust collection seemed better judging by some of the videos I watched last night.  Another area where I've just come to accept it's useless on jigsaws.

The funny thing Raj is that I had already made a hardboard template for the cutting board and was going to use it to pattern route the cutting board. That's when I realized that the pattern bit I was going to use had the bearings on the wrong end.  [eek]

So I dispensed with the pattern step and just cut the walnut directly to the pencil line I laid down. It came out great. The cut edge was so smooth and perpendicular that I used my ETS EC to put the finishing touches to the edge.

As far as dust collection goes, the P1 cc also has an internal blower in it, so the blower blows the dust from one side of the base, to the other side of the base where there is a vacuum pickup. This keeps the cut line clean, it cools the jigsaw blade and it collects more of the generated dust.

Here's a quick test I did comparing the dust pickup between the Trion, Carvex & the P1 cc.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/loving-the-carvex/msg580940/#msg580940

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Blues

  • Posts: 23
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2019, 03:47 PM »
For all those on the fence.. the P1CC.. my friends is the be all and end all of Jigsaws. Period. Wow. Yes the only gripe is it does not have an led. So happy imade this purchase.  This will eventually be the only jigsaw and others would be dispensed. Seriously results are amazing. I used both mafell blades and festool blades.

I beleive bosch makes an adapter for this jigsaw that rides on the festool track. Im going to look into that and will share the link if i can get it to work.

I'm thinking of the mt55 wired that could possibly replace my ts75. Im invested in the 75 with a couple of blades. Any mt55 users who have the 13.5A motor share your feed back?

Wondering if my green is turning red?  [smile]




Offline ScotF

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2019, 07:14 PM »
Something puzzles me about the P1CC videos I saw. For solid wood, no zero clearance insert is being used, sometimes on finished pieces.  And the results appear to be good?!  Are you really seeing that?  Or is this Hollywood magic?

No Hollywood magic - the videos I took were unedited off the camera - what you see is the actual cut quality. I have several other ones on my channel - I can make furniture quality joinery cuts right off the saw. I know it is hard to believe until you try it and I use regular Bosch and Festool blades.

Offline jacko9

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2019, 08:13 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2019, 05:42 AM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

With the greatest respect, I’d have to disagree. We are almost completely cordless now for mobile and site work. When using the cordless plunge saws etc, we normally use an extractor where possible but, often just a dust bag, and that lack of cord is a big plus. Even when using an extractor, not having the weight of a cord is also a plus.

Cordless tech is moving a lot quicker now, and cordless is the future, it’s taking over from 110 volt on many sites I’ve worked on recently. Health and safety welcome it too.

Don’t get me wrong, I own plenty of mains powered tools, 110 volt for site, and 240 volt in the workshop plus the big machinery but, if ever I have the option of a cordless tool, that matches the performance, and sometimes improves on a mains powered counterpart, I’ll take it every time.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2019, 09:02 AM »
Made a few cuts with corded TS 55 and the Festool sleeved umbilical. On half the cuts the power cord snagged on the rail shortly after beginning cut, sleeved vac hose did not snag.

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2019, 12:50 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

With the greatest respect, I’d have to disagree. We are almost completely cordless now for mobile and site work. When using the cordless plunge saws etc, we normally use an extractor where possible but, often just a dust bag, and that lack of cord is a big plus. Even when using an extractor, not having the weight of a cord is also a plus.

Cordless tech is moving a lot quicker now, and cordless is the future, it’s taking over from 110 volt on many sites I’ve worked on recently. Health and safety welcome it too.

Don’t get me wrong, I own plenty of mains powered tools, 110 volt for site, and 240 volt in the workshop plus the big machinery but, if ever I have the option of a cordless tool, that matches the performance, and sometimes improves on a mains powered counterpart, I’ll take it every time.

The issue is i don't see many people committing to battery systems from niche brands like Mafell and Festool.  Folks generaly want all their tools to use the same battery, or maybe 2 big systems.  Thus people will have a pile of Big Red and Big Yellow battery tools, they know those battery systems aren't going anywhere.  But buying into a battery system from a company with only a handful of tools, not so great. Plus if it's a more specialized and expensive tool, it may be a tool you use for decades, but not that often, so if your battery ages out, now you could have an issue.

It's been an odd thing to go from basically all cordless to now having some corded tools, but there is no way I'm buying battery tools from Festool or Mafell.  Yes, the hose is still there, and not having the cord would make the process easier, it's not like getting rid of the cord completely detaches you.

When a tool cost as much as Mafell or Festool charge, I want to be sure it will have a very long life, battery power puts a limit on that.  Even if you rebuild your own batteries with new cells, you still need to be able to get the right cells, etc.

I would love battery to be a thing for all tools, but you still have the limits I mention.  The other big benifit of batteries is regionalization goes away.  The tool can be identical every place in the world.

Offline ScotF

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2019, 04:08 PM »
Mafell uses Metabo batteries for most newer generation and it uses some Bosch batteries for some older generation tools as an FYI.

Festool is making a push to increase cordless - I would guess in a couple of years that they have much more in the system than they do today. 

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2019, 06:08 PM »
@DeformedTree Yes, I get that people don’t want multiple battery platforms but, as ScotF says, Mafell now share their battery platform with around another eight manufacturers, including Metabo, which mean cheaper, similar batteries are available.
It also depends on the amount of use a tool gets. We buy a lot of Makita stuff still, firstly because it’s a nice happy medium for site tools, quality but, at sensible prices. Also at the last count, we had something like 40+ 18 volt batteries, mainly 5ah and a few 6ah.

We operate a good few 36 volt tools, so having multiple batteries and chargers is a must (in my opinion) especially from a professional angle. One of the few site tools we have left that are not cordless are, a couple of table saws. Even our 240mm grinders are all cordless, mitre saws, reciprocating saws, circular saws, drill/drivers, track saws, a couple of extractors, more or less everything. If Makita bring out a 36 volt table saw, I’d buy two instantly.
I haven’t noticed any lack of power or downside, apart from making sure we have plenty of batteries charged, or charging.
I’m used to that though.

Even in the workshop now, I find myself getting irritated by trailing leads.

The reason you don’t see people committing to a battery system from Festool or Mafell, is simply because their range of cordless tools is quite limited, more so Mafell than Festool. Neither come close to range that Makita provide though.

I have spoken to many of the top manufacturers, and lot of the development in power tools now, is geared around cordless, and powerful long lasting batteries. It’s the future, and not just for power tools many household appliances use cordless tech wherever possible.

I’ve embraced it, and lots of trades over here, including me, would always choose cordless over corded, provided there’s no power or performance loss.

Progress and evolution, nothing gets in the way of that.  [wink]

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2019, 06:32 PM »
It's not about the performance of battery tools, believe me I am all for them and have no issues there.   Nor is it about them being used in more things. 

If you are a small company or niche tool maker, it's going to be hard to get a lot of folks to commit.  I have a ton of M18 tools, it's great I can just buy bare tools cheap and have more capability.  But also it's one of the key's that the tools are cheap.  Soon as you start talking many hundreds of dollars and into the thousands for the tools, battery just starts loosing appeal.  Now if all brands embraced a dual power source path where I can plug the same tool in a wall, that is where the real answer is.

Far as Matebo and gang battery.  Remember many of us are in N.A. where those companies don't exist or have a near zero presence. So that means nothing to us over here. On some levels it's good the minor companies get together, but it is also a sign of the major issue that they have to do that to try and get people in.  Also a change, even to a "standardized" battery then means the previous tools are out of luck.

I'm all for battery powered tools, but since getting into having dust collection on everything, it changes things a lot for me.  Now festool would need to make a battery powered CT (which wouldn't be a bad thing).


Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2019, 04:35 AM »
Festool will make cordless extractors further down the line, along with many other cordless versions of their range, including mitre saws etc, you can be sure of that. Just as Mafell will also do.

Going back to the P1, the no LED feature, might be something that’s added in the future.
I have just been talking to somebody about the Erika 85 Ec. There has very recently been a few subtle updates to the latest machines. Slightly different livery, tool holders added etc, and different type of blade guard. The new guard covers more of the blade, and has an included LED work light.

Not sure if these can be retro fitted, I’d imagine with some thought they could be?
There are some other updates too.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1834
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2019, 04:55 AM »
Far as Matebo and gang battery.  Remember many of us are in N.A. where those companies don't exist or have a near zero presence.
Metabo is widely present in US with full range of their batteries. Has been for decades and not leaving any time soon.

Online Birdhunter

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  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2019, 05:57 AM »
I’ve bought my wide range of Festool products at a store close to my home, Highland Woodworking, so I could touch and feel the tools and receive excellent advice.

I felt way out on a limb when I bought the Duo Doweler sight unseen from a company across the country, Timberwolf. Fortunately, the transaction went well with the staff answering all my pre sale and post sales questions. I like the tool and I am confident any issues arising from the tool will be resolved.

I already have Festool jig saws and a tracksaw so the Duo Doweler may be my only Mafell purchase.
Birdhunter

Offline Blues

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2019, 07:51 AM »
Can someone who have both tools compare the duo dowler to the domino? I personally think the domino is superior machine.  And between the domino and dowel the domino is expensive but stronger and the dowels are cheaper.. so use more dowels to get it stronger? Ease of use? I think the domino is the best festool tool.
The duo doweler is very similar in capability. Thoughts?

Offline JimH2

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2019, 11:36 AM »
I believe there was an article, which I did not bookmark, that determined they were pluses and minuses for both with no clear winner. I had the domino and moved to the DuoDoweler and have never looked back, but of course ymmv.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 838
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2019, 11:42 AM »
Far as Matebo and gang battery.  Remember many of us are in N.A. where those companies don't exist or have a near zero presence.
Metabo is widely present in US with full range of their batteries. Has been for decades and not leaving any time soon.
They are also part of Cordless Alliance System that has standardized on an 18V battery platform. No need to sharpshoot the compromises of a common platform as there are obviously some. The recognizable players for those of us in the US are Mafell and Metabo.

Online Birdhunter

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  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2019, 12:48 PM »
I have both Domino machines and recently bought the Duo Doweler DDF40. I am still exploring the Duo Doweler capabilities, but ,so far very impressed.

I do see a lot of overlap between the two machines for joinery. The DDF40 does allow sequencing of holes for shelf support where the Domino doesn't.

I am very pleased with the quality of the DDF40 and its accessories. The fit and finish are flawless. It's accuracy is perfect! I really like the use of spring loaded locator pins rather than the flappers that come on the newer Dominos.

I called Timberwolf several times with questions and the response was excellent.

I think loose tenons provide greater strength than the 8mm and 6mm dowels and with the tight/loose mortise technique, tolerate laxer positioning. The DDF40, even in inexperienced hands (mine), is totally accurate. I did a test joint with a matrix of 8 dowels and it went together perfectly the first time.

As with the Domino, the DDF40's manual is rudimentary at best.
Birdhunter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2019, 01:33 PM »
For all intents and purposes, the Duo Doweller is just that, a double dowelling machine, albeit a very well designed and built one.
Dowels are fine in a lot of instances but, not sure how the joint strength would hold up, compared to a Domino? Certainly a single dowel V a Domino, the Domino would be stronger because of the shape.

Many years ago we used to make a lot of hardwood doors, we offered them in superior hardwoods with all mortise and tenon joints, and also a cheaper timber version, and with dowel jointing to keep cost down. The dowelled doors were nowhere near as durable as the mortise and tenon version. That still stands today, so with that thought, as the Domino is similar to mortise and tenon joint system, I favour that method.

Thing is though, Domino joints are OTT in many situations, often biscuit, dowel or pocket hole joints are more than adequate.

For something a bit different, the Lamello biscuit joiner, used with their connector system is very strong but expensive.
I think these other machines are more of an alternative to the Domino, as opposed to rival.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #78 on: August 04, 2019, 02:08 PM »
I like to have options.

A couple years before the Domino came out I had a commission make a large L shaped set of bookcases finished in Tung oil but keep the wood presence minimal as in thin elements. Maple ply with veneered edges, shared uprights.

The big corner cabinet had to be knockdown for transport. At that time my best option was dowels but the Duo Doweler was too costly (and I think only the Hoffmann was available here?)

My first test failed, not enough precision. Discovered that the Festool VS600 had a 32mm drilling template so bought that and figured out a way to rig it.  With a dowel every 32mm there was enough friction to keep the parts together when clamped/hammered.


All joints doweled. Also found an installed pic.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 08:25 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Kodi Crescent

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #79 on: August 04, 2019, 02:13 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

For some cuts, I've found that the MT55 with the dust bag is as clean as the TS55 with a vacuum.

Offline Kodi Crescent

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2019, 02:18 PM »
.

I already have Festool jig saws and a tracksaw so the Duo Doweler may be my only Mafell purchase.

In my opinion, you're missing out, especially with these prices.  I love the fact that I have probably 25' worth of rail, clamps, and an angle jig in something akin to a shotgun case.  Connecting rails is SO easy!  No more aftermarket "workarounds" on that or multiple flips or accessories.

I can clamp right next to the cut line, too.  I really appreciate that.  No more rail strip coming off inadvertently, either.  Rails have built-in hose deflectors.  Saw has better hose angle guides that don't rotate back in the way.

Pins instead of paddles on joiner.  Awesome jigsaw that doesn't need a second systainer of accessories.  Missing out...
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 02:27 PM by Kodi Crescent »

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2019, 03:47 PM »
@Kodi Crescent   Timberwolf should send you a commission.

Online Birdhunter

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  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #82 on: August 04, 2019, 04:18 PM »
When Mafell introduces a battery version of their jigsaw, I will be sorely tempted.

For how I use my TS55 and Festool jig saws (yes, I have two), they are more than adequate. The Mafell jig saw and track saw look really nice, but offer marginal benefits over my Festool units for my uses.
Birdhunter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 781
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #83 on: August 04, 2019, 04:29 PM »
I like to have options.

A couple years before the Domino came out I had a commission make a large L shaped set of bookcases finished in Tung oil but keep the wood presence minimal as in thin elements. Maple ply with veneered edges, shared uprights.

The big corner cabinet had to be knockdown for transport. At that time my best option was dowels but the Duo Doweler was too costly (and I think only the Hoffmann was available here?)

My first test failed, not enough precision. Discovered that the Festool VS600 had a 32mm drilling template so bought that and figured out a way to rig it.  With a dowel every 32mm there was enough friction to keep the parts together when clamped/hammered.


All joints doweled.

Very nice job, and shows that with thought, a job can be completed in many different ways  [thumbs up]

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 781
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #84 on: August 04, 2019, 04:33 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

For some cuts, I've found that the MT55 with the dust bag is as clean as the TS55 with a vacuum.

Indeed, it was very noticeably with mine too. To be fair though, I have run a cordless Makita plunge saw with just a dust bag, and that gave surprisingly good results. Not quite on par with the MT-55 but, still very good, and the sense of freedom, and lack of dust really grabbed me.

Offline Kodi Crescent

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #85 on: August 04, 2019, 06:45 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

For some cuts, I've found that the MT55 with the dust bag is as clean as the TS55 with a vacuum.

Indeed, it was very noticeably with mine too. To be fair though, I have run a cordless Makita plunge saw with just a dust bag, and that gave surprisingly good results. Not quite on par with the MT-55 but, still very good, and the sense of freedom, and lack of dust really grabbed me.

If I had the dough and the need I'd get the cordless MT55 and just go with the dust bag.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #86 on: August 04, 2019, 10:51 PM »
If I had the dough and the need I'd get the cordless MT55 and just go with the dust bag.

I'm with you Kodi...ever since I purchased the TSC the TS has remained in it's Systainer. It's been sitting in the corner for the last 4 years...alone. Using a saw without a cord and a vac hose attached has been such a liberating experience. It's actually fun to use.  [big grin]

So here's my conundrum, purchase the corded MT55 because it's a great deal and use the TSC for most of my cutting and then employ the MT55 when the going gets tough. In that case I'd move the TS 55 down the road.

OR

Spend the extra $500 and purchase the cordless MT55 while putting both the TSC & TS down the road while having the luxury of cutting without a cord & without a vac hose.

It's guaranteed that one of these two scenarios will happen, I just need to think about it a little longer.

Online RKA

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2019, 11:46 PM »
@Cheese Get the cordless MT55 and be done with it.  I started with the MT55 (corded).  I happened upon a TSC for a really good price and I’ve found myself using that every chance I get.  The cordless aspect won me over and the dust collection with the bag is far better than I imagined. 
-Raj

Offline Cheese

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2019, 12:04 AM »
@Cheese Get the cordless MT55 and be done with it.  I started with the MT55 (corded).  I happened upon a TSC for a really good price and I’ve found myself using that every chance I get.  The cordless aspect won me over and the dust collection with the bag is far better than I imagined.

Thanks for that Raj...The corded aspect, especially for a circ saw that you're dragging down a rail with a vac hose and an electrical cord attached, that's catching on the sharp edges of the rail, has never been fun for me. I've put up with it because the results are so satisfying.

The TSC on the other hand is just plain fun to use.

So thinking just a bit more, by putting both the TS & TSC down the road, it would probably take care of paying for the majority of the cost of the cordless MT55 along with it's batteries.

So Raj are you saying that even though you own the MT55, you use the TSC more often because of the convenience factor?


Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2019, 12:06 AM »
What about power?  18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?