Author Topic: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools  (Read 18415 times)

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Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 75
Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« on: July 11, 2019, 10:38 AM »
Don't know if any one is interested being this is a Festool site, but Timberwolf tools is having a Mafell sale on select items until September 2019. P1cc  jig saw, Mt 55 cc track saw corded, Mt55 bl cordless,  and Mafell DDF40 duo  doweler, mafell KSS 40 18 mbl cordless complete system.
I believe some of the prices are a lot cheaper than you can get from overseas.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline RustE

  • Posts: 413
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2019, 11:38 AM »
Is this an e-mail special?  The DDF 40 shows as $999 with no mention of being a promotional or sale price.

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 75
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2019, 12:07 PM »
Yes, e-mail special. Not sure what price on duo doweler was, because I don't follow it.
P1cc :525.00
mt 55cc: 615.00
mt55 18m bL: 599.00
kss 40 complete system: 999.00
ddf 40 duo doweler : 999.00

I followed all except ddf 40, as I have festool already, and all are significantly lower than normal Mafell prices.
Kss 40 complete was 1230.00 yesterday. to bring it over from England, this(999.00) is  still a lower price.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2019, 12:20 PM »
The website doesn't indicate it's a sale price, but the prices have been updated.  Some might be good deals, but I looked at the cordless MT55 and once you add the batteries, charger and track, it skyrocketed.  The corded MT55 is reasonable and you can get a bosch track elsewhere.
-Raj

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5929
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2019, 12:53 PM »
Looks like the cost of a Erica 85 went up

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 413
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2019, 02:30 PM »
Yes, e-mail special. Not sure what price on duo doweler was, because I don't follow it.
P1cc :525.00
...
ddf 40 duo doweler : 999.00
...

Thanks for the info.

According to the cached Google pages, the prices a few days ago were:
P1cc = $795
DDF 40 = $1,296

Looks like the current promotional prices will have shipping charges and sales tax added.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2019, 02:52 PM »
That’s a good price on the P1 cc, as I paid $765 from Toolnut in 2017.

Would love to pull the pin on the cordless MT55. However as Raj noted, throw in 2 batteries, a charger, a guide rail & 2 clamps and you’re pushing $1500.

My TSC suddenly seems like a good deal  [eek]

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3886
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2019, 03:12 PM »
That's a great price on the jigsaw.  I'm tempted -- but I've kind of already committed my tool budget to the Nova Drill Press.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 75
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2019, 03:27 PM »
@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00. Get two metabo 8.0 Ah batteries plus charger for 269.00 from ohio power tools. Mafell works on festool rails, and if you have rails , I'm sure you have clamps. 868.00 total plus shipping. Metabo makes mafell batteries. You could even get one 4.0Ah  plus one 8.0 Ah  plus charger for even less.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2019, 09:57 PM »
Wonder how the power of the 18 volt MT55 18M bl compares to the 36 volt TSC?

The Mafell has some nice features but would it be a much more refined plunging HKC or a slightly better but weaker TSC. Maybe the thin kerf blade neutralizes the power supply difference?

Also, is it certain that the 8 amp Metabo battery fits the MT55 18M bl?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2019, 10:25 PM »
@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00.

Thanks 🙏 for that info...I was stunned at the prices for the Mafell batteries, something like $265 each...the charger was reasonable at $80+. You’re right I could use Festool rails but I’ve always read that Mafell rails are the creme de la creme of guide rails. Besides my P1 cc needs something to ride on. And to further complicate matters, I’d really like to own the AeroFix rail for cutting in HVAC vents.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2019, 10:45 PM »
Wonder how the power of the 18 volt MT55 18M bl compares to the 36 volt TSC?

Michael, according to Mafell pundits, the power of the saw is somewhere between the TS 55 and the TS 75. I’d consider that’s a very comfortable hammock to be settled in.  [big grin]

So midlin power but minimal weight. That’s what intrigues me. For my needs a 75 is overkill, if I need that much poop, I’d enlist the 8” Milwaukee worm gear or it’s 10” side winder cousin.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 622
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2019, 11:17 PM »
That dual doweller has been on my list.  What is interesting is they just got the first batch of 110V units in, so really no one has bought them at the previous price. I'm assuming all pre-orders will get the current price.

If I didn't have my track saw, I think the mt55 would be happening for me. But at this point I have my TS-55 and rails, so no reason to change at this time.

Far as the price of the Erika 85, it hasn't changed,  $4050 is the same as it was before this.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2019, 11:32 PM »
That dual doweller has been on my list.  What is interesting is they just got the first batch of 110V units in, so really no one has bought them at the previous price. I'm assuming all pre-orders will get the current price.

If I didn't have my track saw, I think the mt55 would be happening for me. But at this point I have my TS-55 and rails, so no reason to change at this time.

Far as the price of the Erika 85, it hasn't changed,  $4050 is the same as it was before this.

Since the posted price is colored red like other sale items maybe this is fortelling a price increase?

Noticed the lower voltage windings on the Duo cost about $150 more...

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2019, 11:58 PM »
Far as the price of the Erika 85, it hasn't changed,  $4050 is the same as it was before this.

Considering the pricing of some of their other tools, the Erika seems like a steal...I'm serious.  [smile]

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 162
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2019, 09:32 AM »
The email call it a "summer sale" with prices good through September.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 413
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2019, 12:04 PM »
The email call it a "summer sale" with prices good through September.

Well, up here in Ohio the "summer" finally arrived a few weeks ago.  So I'm good with it staying around for a bit.

Offline LaVike

  • Posts: 3
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2019, 07:25 PM »
@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00. Get two metabo 8.0 Ah batteries plus charger for 269.00 from ohio power tools. Mafell works on festool rails, and if you have rails , I'm sure you have clamps. 868.00 total plus shipping. Metabo makes mafell batteries. You could even get one 4.0Ah  plus one 8.0 Ah  plus charger for even less.

Longtime lurker here and seeing this topic made me sign up for the FOG.  So, this is my first post.

Long story short, I've been wanting to get back into woodworking after taking a 40+ year break.  The last time being in woodshop class in High School.

My brother gave me a great gift of an MFT/3 because of some things I'd done for him.  I don't have a lot of room in my garage and he was hoping to help get me into woodworking.  While the MFT/3 is a great gift, there is also the curse of getting "green in my blood".  So, I'm in this thread asking for advise/recommendations.

I've been looking at getting a TS55.  That cost is $590 plus tax & shipping.  From looking at Timberwolf's website, the Mafell equivalent is the MT55 and that is $615 plus shipping (no tax in my state).  So I can probably pickup the MT55 cheaper than getting the TS55 even with Amazon's Prime shipping if I were to go a cheap route like Amazon.

My advise request is should I go with the MT55 or are there other Festool advantages or accessories that make the TS55 worthwhile?  Also, I quoted the above because of the option for cordless.  Right now I think I'll be doing most of my work in a garage and have only thought I would need a corded saw but is there a compelling reason to go cordless?

As far as what I'm hoping to make with this stuff, my ultimate goal is to build a replica of a dry sink/hutch that my parents have.  I'd probably be making some simpler/smaller stuff to start out.  I'm sure other stuff would come up but that is the big target right now.

Thanks!

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2019, 07:36 PM »
@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00. Get two metabo 8.0 Ah batteries plus charger for 269.00 from ohio power tools. Mafell works on festool rails, and if you have rails , I'm sure you have clamps. 868.00 total plus shipping. Metabo makes mafell batteries. You could even get one 4.0Ah  plus one 8.0 Ah  plus charger for even less.

Longtime lurker here and seeing this topic made me sign up for the FOG.  So, this is my first post.

Long story short, I've been wanting to get back into woodworking after taking a 40+ year break.  The last time being in woodshop class in High School.

My brother gave me a great gift of an MFT/3 because of some things I'd done for him.  I don't have a lot of room in my garage and he was hoping to help get me into woodworking.  While the MFT/3 is a great gift, there is also the curse of getting "green in my blood".  So, I'm in this thread asking for advise/recommendations.

I've been looking at getting a TS55.  That cost is $590 plus tax & shipping.  From looking at Timberwolf's website, the Mafell equivalent is the MT55 and that is $615 plus shipping (no tax in my state).  So I can probably pickup the MT55 cheaper than getting the TS55 even with Amazon's Prime shipping if I were to go a cheap route like Amazon.

My advise request is should I go with the MT55 or are there other Festool advantages or accessories that make the TS55 worthwhile?  Also, I quoted the above because of the option for cordless.  Right now I think I'll be doing most of my work in a garage and have only thought I would need a corded saw but is there a compelling reason to go cordless?

As far as what I'm hoping to make with this stuff, my ultimate goal is to build a replica of a dry sink/hutch that my parents have.  I'd probably be making some simpler/smaller stuff to start out.  I'm sure other stuff would come up but that is the big target right now.

Thanks!

Cordless TS55 is awesome - full power and convenience of no cords or hoses and you can pick one up for a discount at some dealers with the older non-Bluetooth batteries. I would opt for the MT55 over a corded TS55 because of power and if you are going to invest in one over the other and need rails, the MT55 works with both FT rails and the Mafell rails. More overall accessories available for Festool, but Mafell covers most of what you need and the advantages of it outweigh many other shortcomings. The prices on Mafell right now are crazy good - for the 5 tools that they have on sale - so if you are inclined to go that route, now is the time. 

Offline LaVike

  • Posts: 3
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2019, 11:47 AM »
ScotF - thank you very much!  I think I'll be going the MT55cc route.

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1074
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2019, 01:51 PM »
gee. a page of posts and no link? Here you go:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2019, 02:26 PM »
@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00. Get two metabo 8.0 Ah batteries plus charger for 269.00 from ohio power tools. Mafell works on festool rails, and if you have rails , I'm sure you have clamps. 868.00 total plus shipping. Metabo makes mafell batteries. You could even get one 4.0Ah  plus one 8.0 Ah  plus charger for even less.

Even if the 8.0 amp batteries are too big I think it ships with 5.0 amp (or possibly 5.2) so those will work. It is great that Metabo and others creating some type of battery agreement between manufacturers. I realize there may be cases where customized battery sizes are better, but for larger tools I don't think it makes a difference. Other than Mafell and Metabo I don't know of other manufacturers that sell tools in the US.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2019, 02:28 PM »
@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00.

Thanks 🙏 for that info...I was stunned at the prices for the Mafell batteries, something like $265 each...the charger was reasonable at $80+. You’re right I could use Festool rails but I’ve always read that Mafell rails are the creme de la creme of guide rails. Besides my P1 cc needs something to ride on. And to further complicate matters, I’d really like to own the AeroFix rail for cutting in HVAC vents.

The rails are definitely better and it is a compromise to not use the FT ones instead unless you already own them.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2019, 02:29 PM »
Since the posted price is colored red like other sale items maybe this is fortelling a price increase?

Noticed the lower voltage windings on the Duo cost about $150 more...

Help me, and possibly others, out with the significance of the windings.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2019, 02:47 PM »
Help me, and possibly others, out with the significance of the windings.

I think Michael was just noting that the 120 volt version is more expensive.

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2019, 04:43 PM »
Just wanted to share ..

I spoke to Jeff @ Timberwolf. Sale is on till end of Sept.
https://www.timberwolftools.com/blog/post/making-mafell-products-more-affordable-for-carpenters-who-always-wanted-one/

"Mafell has agreed to offer the following SUMMER SALE PRICES to our customers starting now through September 2019".

Picked up their Jig Saw the P1CC. So many people swear by it. Will provide a feedback after I get it.



Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2019, 04:49 PM »
.. And BTW the MT55cc has been recently upgraded to a "Powerful 13.5 amp CUprex Compact motor" - which makes it more powerful than the TS75 (?? ). I believe there is a piece of plastic that can be removed and it can ride on the Festool Track. Cutting depth is 2", which I thought is plenty! And these can also be used on the Bosch track which are 50% cheaper than the Mafell tack.

Thoughts??

Offline broseiden

  • Posts: 59
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2019, 07:18 PM »
I ordered a P1CC and MT55CC. I didnt know their track saw was updated with a more powerful motor, but lack of power is one issue that occasionally arises with my TS55, so I'm looking forward to trying it out. Same with quicker blade changes, better tracks, and bevel settings. The TS55 allows me to do a lot of things I previously couldn't, and I prefer it to the Makita and Dewalt, but from reviews I expect the Mafell will suit me a bit better.  We'll see!

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1106
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2019, 08:01 PM »
Am I wrong, does the Mafell MT55cc not have a riving knife like the Festool TS55? That is a deal breaker for me if it does not.

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 41
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2019, 08:19 PM »

PRESS RELEASE
Safer sawing without a riving knife
 
MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw with kick-back protection
 
 
In its new MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw, MAFELL has combined the benefits of enhanced active safety, improved handling and enhanced cut quality – without a riving knife. According to the manufacturer, active kick-back protection averts the danger of recoil when the blade enters the work more effectively than a riving knife. In addition, design measures introduced alongside standard EN 60745-2-5, which entered force in 2007, have increased the passive safety of saws that dispense with a riving knife.
 
Especially when entering the workpiece, the blade of conventional plunge-cut saws can easily jam and thus cause a kick-back. The MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw significantly reduces the likelihood of this effect occurring. Thanks to the CUprex Compact motor driving the sawblade at a maximum of 6,200 rpm, the cutting speed is 20 per cent higher than usual. The teeth of the carbide-tipped sawblade thus remove less stock per revolution, which appreciably reduces the risk of jamming.
 
The probability of a kick-back arising from sawblade jamming is much lower while sawing is in progress as well. The high speed enables the blade to cut itself free more effectively. Additional safety is afforded by the automatic isolation of the power supply to the motor if the blade jams.
 
"The active kick-back protection provided by the high speed and automatic power supply interruption offers greater safety than a riving knife, which does not protect against the kick-back effect when the blade enters the work and can be a nuisance for the tradesman," comments Ralf Kohler, head of sales and marketing at MAFELL. Josef Riederer, a tradesman of Unterneuhausen, vindicates the manager's claim, "I feel safe when working with the MT 55 cc."
 
The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.
 
Dispensing with a riving knife makes the saw much easier to use. When changing the sawblade, for example, it is no longer necessary to change the riving knife according to the blade thickness and adjust it to suit the blade diameter. This not only accelerates the blade changing operation, but also reduces the workload when working with a variety of materials. Tradesmen are also delighted that the absence of a riving knife protects sensitive surfaces against the risk of scratch marks.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2019, 08:46 PM »
With regards to the MT55 and batteries, see the KSS40 18M package deal for $999.  It comes with 2 batteries, a charger, and the Flexi-rail for $185 more than the bare tool without the Flexi-rail. 

I figure that if you want to go cordless, get the KSS40 18M package and the MT55 cordless.  That's how I'd do it if I had the dough.  Maybe I'll do it even though I don't have it.

As far as the MT55 vs. the TS 55 - I have both.  I don't touch the TS55 any longer.  A cordless MT55 would be even better!
In my opinion, the MT55 with the dust bag extracts the dust as well as the TS55 and the extractor.

The P1CC is terrific!  The price of it, and the MT55 are a steal in comparison to regular Mafell prices.

Although Festool has more accessories, many of those accessories are to make up for shortcomings within the Festool system.  Festool is great at nickel-diming you to death, either through their own accessories or through aftermarket ones.  (Notice that no other tool brand has a cottage industry of accessory makers building accessories to overcome product shortcomings.)

The Mafell stuff just works.  No accessories needed.  I may sell all my Festool stuff and replace it with Mafell.  Who needs all that extra stuff when you can have a tool that just works as intended?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2019, 02:14 AM »
As far as kick back goes, both my TS & TSC 55 have done so on probably a half dozen occasions. Not a big deal but I was quite surprised given the fact that the riving knife is so highly applauded.

So my take-away is the riving knife is helpful 50% of the time but another aid would be more helpful the other 50%. I think the increased blade speed of the Mafell may be the answer.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 02:40 AM by Cheese »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2019, 02:18 AM »
@Kodi Crescent

I agree with most of what your post says. It’s been my belief for many many years, the Mafell make the best power tools money can buy but, at probably the highest price tag.
The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.

If I just worked on my own, I would have kitted myself out with Mafell years ago but, I don’t. So the tools I buy are used professionally and by various people I employ. So financially not viable, although I own a few Mafell tools now but, they are for my personal use.

The main differences between Festool and Mafell apart from price, are as you say, Mafell do not have as many accessories, nor do they need them.
The other thing to bear in mind is Mafell is designed primarily with the professional user in mind.
Festool seem to cater for all kinds, professional, hobbyist, and DIY.
Lamello although only making a limited range of tools, are also very much a premium brand, with a price tag to match, and aimed more at professional use.

I often wonder if expensive tools are really worth their price, then get to use or buy that tool, and realise they probably are. Then you see another tool that cost a third of the price but, still does the job?
I have been mulling over buying an Erika 85 for quite some time, as in my opinion it’s the best portable table saw out there, with a big price. I am wondering if I could get similar precision with a cheaper saw, and from what I’ve seen recently, I could.

So I guess it’s down to what somebody, professional, hobbyist, DIY or otherwise is willing to pay?

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2019, 10:24 AM »
As far as kick back goes, both my TS & TSC 55 have done so on probably a half dozen occasions. Not a big deal but I was quite surprised given the fact that the riving knife is so highly applauded.

So my take-away is the riving knife is helpful 50% of the time but another aid would be more helpful the other 50%. I think the increased blade speed of the Mafell may be the answer.

I had my MT55 kickback once.  Cut a nice chunk out of the brand new rail I was using.  I cut that part off and now have a shorter rail. :(

I was cutting a piece of material where there was a large waste piece overhanging the edge of the workbench, unsupported.  Nearing the end of the cut, the unsupported portion twisted and closed the kerf, grabbing the blade.  The saw jumped off the track, slicing the track.  I learned not to do that again.  Now I support the off cut or place shims behind the saw while cutting.  I haven't had it happen again.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2019, 10:34 AM »

The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.


That's certainly been my experience with the P1 cc. Way too many "little touches" to discuss here lest I start to sound like an infomercial. They even go to lengths to arrange the Systainer so that optional items will still fit inside the Sys 1.

I'll post a photo later

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2019, 10:39 AM »
In terms of the nickel and diming and the aftermarket accessories, I think that perception may be a little colored.  If you look at it the other way, Mafell may give you a circle cutting jig but the price of the saw is higher.  Festool offers it as an added option but the price of the saw is lower.  If you don't need it, you have an option to omit with Festool. 

Regarding the aftermarket accessories, first, Festool offers a broader variety of tools and other workshop items than Mafell.  Their larger presence and service in the US also appeal to a larger audience.  It's that audience I believe encourages the cottage industry of aftermarket accessories, not necessarily some inherent weakness.  In some instances, Mafell would benefit from these as well, but for all purposes, there aren't enough potential users of the platform to justify the development of the products.  Take an 90 degree rail square such as that offered by TSO.  Mafell users would benefit from it just as much as Festool users.  It's not an inherent weakness in the tool, just a different way to use it. 

One more point regarding the KSS40 batteries.  It seems they are 94 watt hour batteries vs. 99 watt hour batteries with the MT55 kit.  Obviously the capacity difference is marginal, however, there may be other changes to the battery, such as higher discharge rates, that make one battery more suitable for the MT55.  I don't know, I just noticed that difference when scrutinizing the pricing differences, but since I'm not in the market for either one, I didn't dig deeper.  If you're thinking about going down this road it might be worth asking a few more questions before taking the leap.
-Raj

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2019, 03:10 PM »

The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.


That's certainly been my experience with the P1 cc. Way too many "little touches" to discuss here lest I start to sound like an infomercial. They even go to lengths to arrange the Systainer so that optional items will still fit inside the Sys 1.

I'll post a photo later

Yeah I know exactly what you’re saying Cheese, they seem to leave no stone unturned with development and design. My MT55 has some great touches, one that comes to mind is the bevel lock, it only has one lock at the front. Well it does have front and rear but, the rear is operated simultaneously with the front.

If money was no object, my workshop would be Mafell and Lamello apart from the large machinery.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2019, 05:49 PM »
With regards to the MT55 and batteries, see the KSS40 18M package deal for $999.  It comes with 2 batteries, a charger, and the Flexi-rail for $185 more than the bare tool without the Flexi-rail. 

I figure that if you want to go cordless, get the KSS40 18M package and the MT55 cordless.  That's how I'd do it if I had the dough.  Maybe I'll do it even though I don't have it.

As far as the MT55 vs. the TS 55 - I have both.  I don't touch the TS55 any longer.  A cordless MT55 would be even better!
In my opinion, the MT55 with the dust bag extracts the dust as well as the TS55 and the extractor.

The P1CC is terrific!  The price of it, and the MT55 are a steal in comparison to regular Mafell prices.

Although Festool has more accessories, many of those accessories are to make up for shortcomings within the Festool system.  Festool is great at nickel-diming you to death, either through their own accessories or through aftermarket ones.  (Notice that no other tool brand has a cottage industry of accessory makers building accessories to overcome product shortcomings.)

The Mafell stuff just works.  No accessories needed.  I may sell all my Festool stuff and replace it with Mafell.  Who needs all that extra stuff when you can have a tool that just works as intended?

I don’t think the KSS 40 package includes the Flexi-rail. It’s shown in the box but not included in the list. Hope I’m wrong...

The batteries are the previous generation 5.2Ah. The new LiHD batteries are 5.4Ah.

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2019, 06:27 PM »
The P1CC  has arrived today. Yet to open the box.

Even though I have the TS75 (never liked the 55), I am tempted to get the MT55 with chord (more power) and I don't have to deal with battery and my existing vac will turn on without stupid Bluetooth. Might just end up selling the TS75 (I do lose 3/4" cut capacity. I think I can live with that). It's about 3 lbs lighter. As you all mention, there are so many small design features that make it desirable. The real reason I am thinking about it is they increased the capacity 13.5A motor!

I believe the battery powered tools certainly have their place for example the impact or drill. But I am on the fence when it comes to a track saw!! I could be wrong but the kss40 with the battery makes sense. You could be on the roof or laying floors and you have the tool right there to make the cut with no dust. Its small and easy to imagine the use as a portable tool. Not so much the MT55 18M.

My slide down the Festool slippery slope was the domino (no regrets there). With Mafell its the P1CC. I think in the end its going to be a mixture of tools that makes the most sense (not brand loyal). I think this is where platform and marketing comes into play. Let's see how it goes.

My need is simple: The darn tool should work (apparently I heard Jeff say that the brushes on the Mafell tools last 25yrs! MT55 is not brushless). The ergonomics of design and convenience matters a lot. When you amortize the cost of the tool over the lifespan - its very marginal (as the saying goes "I am not rich enough to buy cheap"), I'd rather drive a Merc from day 1 knowing that in 20 yrs its cheaper to drive the Merc than a Corolla?

In the end what we do with the tool is more important than the tool itself :).



« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 06:31 PM by Blues »

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 75
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2019, 06:52 PM »
To be clear, The Kss 40 package does come with the flexi rail. I bought one. So far in its limited use I like it alot.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2019, 08:38 PM »
Found this at Timberwolf, don’t recall if it’s been mentioned.

QUESTION:  What if I recently purchased one of these products at a higher price?

ANSWER:  If (1) you purchased one of these five tools in 2019 at a higher price, and (2) you now go ahead and purchase another new Mafell tool by the end of September 2019:  Timberwolf Tools will give you $150 off your order.  Simply write "$150 Off" in the Order Comments when placing your next online order.  Imagine that your next purchase is also one of these five tools, and you will see hundreds of dollars in savings!  Call us at 1-800-869-4169 if you have any questions about this promotion and we will build a special quote for you.

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 149
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2019, 10:08 PM »
Found this at Timberwolf, don’t recall if it’s been mentioned.

QUESTION:  What if I recently purchased one of these products at a higher price?

ANSWER:  If (1) you purchased one of these five tools in 2019 at a higher price, and (2) you now go ahead and purchase another new Mafell tool by the end of September 2019:  Timberwolf Tools will give you $150 off your order.  Simply write "$150 Off" in the Order Comments when placing your next online order.  Imagine that your next purchase is also one of these five tools, and you will see hundreds of dollars in savings!  Call us at 1-800-869-4169 if you have any questions about this promotion and we will build a special quote for you.

This applied to me. I purchased the MT55 earlier this year and took this opportunity to pick up the P1 CC. Got an additional $150 on my order.  Definitely nice to get that retroactive discount.
Clint

TSC 55, TS 75, HKC 55, DF 500, DF 700, Kapex 120, UG Ext. Wings, MFK 700, OF 1010, OF 1400, OF 2200, CT 22, CT 26, ETS 150/3, ETS EQ 150/5, PRO 5, DTS 400, RO 90, RO 150, RAS 115, CXS, DWC 18-4500, MFT Kapex, MFT 3 (2), MFT 800, MFT 1080

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2019, 12:18 AM »
I have been a long time Mafell user - I will sum it up this way - Mafell's tools are an everything you need, nothing you don't kind of philosophy. They have limited accessories, but they are becoming more widespread. There are a few places that offer rails squares now and one of those companies now has parallel guides. As these tools become more popular, I am sure that there will be more. I am fortunate to have both Mafell and Festool and have choices. Both companies make great tools and compliment each other nicely. I will be picking up a couple of new tools with this sale before it ends and take advantage of these crazy discounts. Having competitive choices are a very good thing.

Offline PeterJJames13

  • Posts: 198
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2019, 07:52 AM »
Found this at Timberwolf, don’t recall if it’s been mentioned.

QUESTION:  What if I recently purchased one of these products at a higher price?

ANSWER:  If (1) you purchased one of these five tools in 2019 at a higher price, and (2) you now go ahead and purchase another new Mafell tool by the end of September 2019:  Timberwolf Tools will give you $150 off your order.  Simply write "$150 Off" in the Order Comments when placing your next online order.  Imagine that your next purchase is also one of these five tools, and you will see hundreds of dollars in savings!  Call us at 1-800-869-4169 if you have any questions about this promotion and we will build a special quote for you.

This applied to me. I purchased the MT55 earlier this year and took this opportunity to pick up the P1 CC. Got an additional $150 on my order.  Definitely nice to get that retroactive discount.

Same here, except I got the DDF40. Can't wait to use it!

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2019, 11:55 AM »
Same here, except I got the DDF40. Can't wait to use it!

You won't be disappointed at what it can. Takes some time to figure out the functionality. Manual is written like the Festool ones so don't expect much.

Offline PeterJJames13

  • Posts: 198
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2019, 12:57 PM »
Awesome - I think I'm going to get my scraps together and dive in this weekend. Really curious as to how well it aligns and how to plunge vs a domino.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2019, 02:27 PM »
Yeah I know exactly what you’re saying Cheese, they seem to leave no stone unturned with development and design. My MT55 has some great touches, one that comes to mind is the bevel lock, it only has one lock at the front. Well it does have front and rear but, the rear is operated simultaneously with the front.

Here's a great example, even the Systainer 1 insert is looked at as it's arranged in 4 levels.
Level 1 holds the parallel fence, it's that red piece of plastic on the LH side that's connected to the steel bar.
Level 2 holds the optional blade assortment pack





Level 3 holds the optional tilting base
Level 4 holds the jigsaw and its cord





Because of the layered packaging approach, I can also keep:
9 packages of Festool wood blades
1 package of Festool wavy blades
4 packages of Milwaukee metal blades
A 10" long Bosch blade
An owners manual

All in a SYS 1










Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2019, 12:11 AM »
My set up is the same as @Cheese. But I also have a couple of the wooden screw clamps for Mafell/Bosch rails in mine too - it is a well organized Systainer.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2019, 06:49 AM »
In terms of the nickel and diming and the aftermarket accessories, I think that perception may be a little colored.  If you look at it the other way, Mafell may give you a circle cutting jig but the price of the saw is higher.  Festool offers it as an added option but the price of the saw is lower.  If you don't need it, you have an option to omit with Festool. 

Regarding the aftermarket accessories, first, Festool offers a broader variety of tools and other workshop items than Mafell.  Their larger presence and service in the US also appeal to a larger audience.  It's that audience I believe encourages the cottage industry of aftermarket accessories, not necessarily some inherent weakness.  In some instances, Mafell would benefit from these as well, but for all purposes, there aren't enough potential users of the platform to justify the development of the products.  Take an 90 degree rail square such as that offered by TSO.  Mafell users would benefit from it just as much as Festool users.  It's not an inherent weakness in the tool, just a different way to use it. 

One more point regarding the KSS40 batteries.  It seems they are 94 watt hour batteries vs. 99 watt hour batteries with the MT55 kit.  Obviously the capacity difference is marginal, however, there may be other changes to the battery, such as higher discharge rates, that make one battery more suitable for the MT55.  I don't know, I just noticed that difference when scrutinizing the pricing differences, but since I'm not in the market for either one, I didn't dig deeper.  If you're thinking about going down this road it might be worth asking a few more questions before taking the leap.

I called Timberwolf regarding the KSS40 batteries.  They aren't the same as what you'd get with the MT55.  They'll work, but other battery types will work better.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the Festool nickel-dining you to death.  I think with Festool you have to spend a lot of time building jigs to realize some capability or overcome some shortcoming.  I'm not experiencing that with the Mafell, at least not yet.

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 465
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2019, 12:10 PM »
I bit the bullet on a P1cc today after I sold my carvex. I hope it lives up to the hype, difficult to purchase an expensive tool without laying my hands on it first.
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450 | RAS 115 E | OF2200 EB

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2019, 03:10 PM »
@Cheese yes, not too shabby at all, it really is an amazing, and well thought out way, of using quite a limited amount of space. They make it look so easy too.
If you saw all the contents of the Systainer sitting on a bench top, it would be hard to accept that it would all fit in, and so neatly too.

What are your thoughts on the P1, I know about five or six owners that all say they really are the best?

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2019, 08:22 PM »
The P1CC is a dream saw - it really does work as well as others say and I have owned/currently own many of the top models. I would buy a new one if something happened to mine - plenty smooth and powerful and dead-nuts square. The base has a couple of positions to get close to the front of the foot and you can reverse the blade and cut backwards since there are no guides or rollers.

The only thing not on this saw is a light - but that is not a huge deal to me.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2019, 02:29 AM »
@ScotF The lack of illumination at the cutting point, is the only negative comment I’ve ever heard about the saw.
From what I’ve seen, they really are the best.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2019, 12:35 PM »
What are your thoughts on the P1, I know about five or six owners that all say they really are the best?

It's a slick saw, my only complaint is the lack of on-board LEDs. 

I recently used it for putting a full radius on the end of 2 x 4 cedar studs. In that application, you're cutting such a tight radius that you're basically planting the saw in one position and then pivoting the saw around that position. Neither my Trion or Carvex could handle the cut without the blade wandering way off line. The P1 cc completed the cut perfectly and the edge was also square. The cut was done using a Festool wood blade and not the "double wide" Mafell blade.

Here's a recent shot of a radius cut on a 5/4" walnut cutting board. Again using a standard Mafell blade.

Also worth noting is the smoothness of the cut. You can just barely see the vertical blade marks.





« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 12:39 PM by Cheese »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2019, 03:47 PM »
That is amazing for a jig saw, even a top notch one. The other thing that fascinates me with the saw, is how vertical they cut, and don’t wander like many other makes of jig saws do.

I guess the lack of LED is a niggle, especially for me, a few years back, not a problem but, my eyes need all the extra help now. It wouldn’t stop me buying one though.
Not sure there’s anything close to one but, I guess the Carvex is in second place but, by a fair margin (in my opinion)
To be fair though, I am unashamedly a fan of Mafell.

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 167
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2019, 04:57 PM »
Ordered one today and you lot are most certainly to blame. So, thanks, I guess ;)

I started with *blushes* Black & Decker, then DeWalt, a couple of Makitas and a Trion. The only one I got on with was the brushless 18v Makita (with LED!) but it will wonder on occasion. The Trion was used only for the CMS insert (you can't see where it's going freehand) and the B&D was down to beginners ignorance.

I didn't go for the rail package as, impressive as the the ability to straight cut at 90 is, a circular saw is going to win that battle in most cases.

There's what looks to be a great source of blade alternatives on the Mafell users forum here: https://bit.ly/2SXBjoU From a quick skim they've compiled a list of identical blades to the Mafell ones for a lot less than the Mafell branded ones.

Edit: I give up. The link to the Mafell users forum gets automangled by this forum no matter what I do. PM me if you want the link.

Edit #2: Used bit.ly to get the URL working.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 06:42 AM by Roachmill »

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2019, 12:15 AM »
Here are a couple of videos I shot using the P1CC when I first got it a few years back.




Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2019, 07:20 AM »
Something puzzles me about the P1CC videos I saw. For solid wood, no zero clearance insert is being used, sometimes on finished pieces.  And the results appear to be good?!  Are you really seeing that?  Or is this Hollywood magic?
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2019, 10:04 AM »
Something puzzles me about the P1CC videos I saw. For solid wood, no zero clearance insert is being used, sometimes on finished pieces.  And the results appear to be good?!  Are you really seeing that?  Or is this Hollywood magic?

Raj, this walnut was cut without an insert using the Mafell W+P2 blade. The blade is recommended for solid wood, particle board, ply & plastics. This cut was direct from the saw, I just laid down the saw and placed the square in position. You can still see the pencil line that I was cutting to.


Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2019, 11:28 AM »
That's crazy!  I never use my carvex without a ZC insert unless I'm just rough cutting.  And usually I'm not confident enough in the cut quality anyway (as most would be), so I'm backing off curves 1/8-1/4 and use a router table and templates to get the finished product.  That adds time and extra steps.  Even the dust collection seemed better judging by some of the videos I watched last night.  Another area where I've just come to accept it's useless on jigsaws. 
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2019, 01:20 PM »
That's crazy!  I never use my carvex without a ZC insert unless I'm just rough cutting.  And usually I'm not confident enough in the cut quality anyway (as most would be), so I'm backing off curves 1/8-1/4 and use a router table and templates to get the finished product.  That adds time and extra steps.  Even the dust collection seemed better judging by some of the videos I watched last night.  Another area where I've just come to accept it's useless on jigsaws.

The funny thing Raj is that I had already made a hardboard template for the cutting board and was going to use it to pattern route the cutting board. That's when I realized that the pattern bit I was going to use had the bearings on the wrong end.  [eek]

So I dispensed with the pattern step and just cut the walnut directly to the pencil line I laid down. It came out great. The cut edge was so smooth and perpendicular that I used my ETS EC to put the finishing touches to the edge.

As far as dust collection goes, the P1 cc also has an internal blower in it, so the blower blows the dust from one side of the base, to the other side of the base where there is a vacuum pickup. This keeps the cut line clean, it cools the jigsaw blade and it collects more of the generated dust.

Here's a quick test I did comparing the dust pickup between the Trion, Carvex & the P1 cc.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/loving-the-carvex/msg580940/#msg580940

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2019, 03:47 PM »
For all those on the fence.. the P1CC.. my friends is the be all and end all of Jigsaws. Period. Wow. Yes the only gripe is it does not have an led. So happy imade this purchase.  This will eventually be the only jigsaw and others would be dispensed. Seriously results are amazing. I used both mafell blades and festool blades.

I beleive bosch makes an adapter for this jigsaw that rides on the festool track. Im going to look into that and will share the link if i can get it to work.

I'm thinking of the mt55 wired that could possibly replace my ts75. Im invested in the 75 with a couple of blades. Any mt55 users who have the 13.5A motor share your feed back?

Wondering if my green is turning red?  [smile]




Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2019, 07:14 PM »
Something puzzles me about the P1CC videos I saw. For solid wood, no zero clearance insert is being used, sometimes on finished pieces.  And the results appear to be good?!  Are you really seeing that?  Or is this Hollywood magic?

No Hollywood magic - the videos I took were unedited off the camera - what you see is the actual cut quality. I have several other ones on my channel - I can make furniture quality joinery cuts right off the saw. I know it is hard to believe until you try it and I use regular Bosch and Festool blades.

Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2381
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2019, 08:13 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2019, 05:42 AM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

With the greatest respect, I’d have to disagree. We are almost completely cordless now for mobile and site work. When using the cordless plunge saws etc, we normally use an extractor where possible but, often just a dust bag, and that lack of cord is a big plus. Even when using an extractor, not having the weight of a cord is also a plus.

Cordless tech is moving a lot quicker now, and cordless is the future, it’s taking over from 110 volt on many sites I’ve worked on recently. Health and safety welcome it too.

Don’t get me wrong, I own plenty of mains powered tools, 110 volt for site, and 240 volt in the workshop plus the big machinery but, if ever I have the option of a cordless tool, that matches the performance, and sometimes improves on a mains powered counterpart, I’ll take it every time.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2019, 09:02 AM »
Made a few cuts with corded TS 55 and the Festool sleeved umbilical. On half the cuts the power cord snagged on the rail shortly after beginning cut, sleeved vac hose did not snag.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 622
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2019, 12:50 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

With the greatest respect, I’d have to disagree. We are almost completely cordless now for mobile and site work. When using the cordless plunge saws etc, we normally use an extractor where possible but, often just a dust bag, and that lack of cord is a big plus. Even when using an extractor, not having the weight of a cord is also a plus.

Cordless tech is moving a lot quicker now, and cordless is the future, it’s taking over from 110 volt on many sites I’ve worked on recently. Health and safety welcome it too.

Don’t get me wrong, I own plenty of mains powered tools, 110 volt for site, and 240 volt in the workshop plus the big machinery but, if ever I have the option of a cordless tool, that matches the performance, and sometimes improves on a mains powered counterpart, I’ll take it every time.

The issue is i don't see many people committing to battery systems from niche brands like Mafell and Festool.  Folks generaly want all their tools to use the same battery, or maybe 2 big systems.  Thus people will have a pile of Big Red and Big Yellow battery tools, they know those battery systems aren't going anywhere.  But buying into a battery system from a company with only a handful of tools, not so great. Plus if it's a more specialized and expensive tool, it may be a tool you use for decades, but not that often, so if your battery ages out, now you could have an issue.

It's been an odd thing to go from basically all cordless to now having some corded tools, but there is no way I'm buying battery tools from Festool or Mafell.  Yes, the hose is still there, and not having the cord would make the process easier, it's not like getting rid of the cord completely detaches you.

When a tool cost as much as Mafell or Festool charge, I want to be sure it will have a very long life, battery power puts a limit on that.  Even if you rebuild your own batteries with new cells, you still need to be able to get the right cells, etc.

I would love battery to be a thing for all tools, but you still have the limits I mention.  The other big benifit of batteries is regionalization goes away.  The tool can be identical every place in the world.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2019, 04:08 PM »
Mafell uses Metabo batteries for most newer generation and it uses some Bosch batteries for some older generation tools as an FYI.

Festool is making a push to increase cordless - I would guess in a couple of years that they have much more in the system than they do today. 

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2019, 06:08 PM »
@DeformedTree Yes, I get that people don’t want multiple battery platforms but, as ScotF says, Mafell now share their battery platform with around another eight manufacturers, including Metabo, which mean cheaper, similar batteries are available.
It also depends on the amount of use a tool gets. We buy a lot of Makita stuff still, firstly because it’s a nice happy medium for site tools, quality but, at sensible prices. Also at the last count, we had something like 40+ 18 volt batteries, mainly 5ah and a few 6ah.

We operate a good few 36 volt tools, so having multiple batteries and chargers is a must (in my opinion) especially from a professional angle. One of the few site tools we have left that are not cordless are, a couple of table saws. Even our 240mm grinders are all cordless, mitre saws, reciprocating saws, circular saws, drill/drivers, track saws, a couple of extractors, more or less everything. If Makita bring out a 36 volt table saw, I’d buy two instantly.
I haven’t noticed any lack of power or downside, apart from making sure we have plenty of batteries charged, or charging.
I’m used to that though.

Even in the workshop now, I find myself getting irritated by trailing leads.

The reason you don’t see people committing to a battery system from Festool or Mafell, is simply because their range of cordless tools is quite limited, more so Mafell than Festool. Neither come close to range that Makita provide though.

I have spoken to many of the top manufacturers, and lot of the development in power tools now, is geared around cordless, and powerful long lasting batteries. It’s the future, and not just for power tools many household appliances use cordless tech wherever possible.

I’ve embraced it, and lots of trades over here, including me, would always choose cordless over corded, provided there’s no power or performance loss.

Progress and evolution, nothing gets in the way of that.  [wink]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 622
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2019, 06:32 PM »
It's not about the performance of battery tools, believe me I am all for them and have no issues there.   Nor is it about them being used in more things. 

If you are a small company or niche tool maker, it's going to be hard to get a lot of folks to commit.  I have a ton of M18 tools, it's great I can just buy bare tools cheap and have more capability.  But also it's one of the key's that the tools are cheap.  Soon as you start talking many hundreds of dollars and into the thousands for the tools, battery just starts loosing appeal.  Now if all brands embraced a dual power source path where I can plug the same tool in a wall, that is where the real answer is.

Far as Matebo and gang battery.  Remember many of us are in N.A. where those companies don't exist or have a near zero presence. So that means nothing to us over here. On some levels it's good the minor companies get together, but it is also a sign of the major issue that they have to do that to try and get people in.  Also a change, even to a "standardized" battery then means the previous tools are out of luck.

I'm all for battery powered tools, but since getting into having dust collection on everything, it changes things a lot for me.  Now festool would need to make a battery powered CT (which wouldn't be a bad thing).


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2019, 04:35 AM »
Festool will make cordless extractors further down the line, along with many other cordless versions of their range, including mitre saws etc, you can be sure of that. Just as Mafell will also do.

Going back to the P1, the no LED feature, might be something that’s added in the future.
I have just been talking to somebody about the Erika 85 Ec. There has very recently been a few subtle updates to the latest machines. Slightly different livery, tool holders added etc, and different type of blade guard. The new guard covers more of the blade, and has an included LED work light.

Not sure if these can be retro fitted, I’d imagine with some thought they could be?
There are some other updates too.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2019, 04:55 AM »
Far as Matebo and gang battery.  Remember many of us are in N.A. where those companies don't exist or have a near zero presence.
Metabo is widely present in US with full range of their batteries. Has been for decades and not leaving any time soon.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2750
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2019, 05:57 AM »
I’ve bought my wide range of Festool products at a store close to my home, Highland Woodworking, so I could touch and feel the tools and receive excellent advice.

I felt way out on a limb when I bought the Duo Doweler sight unseen from a company across the country, Timberwolf. Fortunately, the transaction went well with the staff answering all my pre sale and post sales questions. I like the tool and I am confident any issues arising from the tool will be resolved.

I already have Festool jig saws and a tracksaw so the Duo Doweler may be my only Mafell purchase.
Birdhunter

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2019, 07:51 AM »
Can someone who have both tools compare the duo dowler to the domino? I personally think the domino is superior machine.  And between the domino and dowel the domino is expensive but stronger and the dowels are cheaper.. so use more dowels to get it stronger? Ease of use? I think the domino is the best festool tool.
The duo doweler is very similar in capability. Thoughts?

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2019, 11:36 AM »
I believe there was an article, which I did not bookmark, that determined they were pluses and minuses for both with no clear winner. I had the domino and moved to the DuoDoweler and have never looked back, but of course ymmv.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2019, 11:42 AM »
Far as Matebo and gang battery.  Remember many of us are in N.A. where those companies don't exist or have a near zero presence.
Metabo is widely present in US with full range of their batteries. Has been for decades and not leaving any time soon.
They are also part of Cordless Alliance System that has standardized on an 18V battery platform. No need to sharpshoot the compromises of a common platform as there are obviously some. The recognizable players for those of us in the US are Mafell and Metabo.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2750
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2019, 12:48 PM »
I have both Domino machines and recently bought the Duo Doweler DDF40. I am still exploring the Duo Doweler capabilities, but ,so far very impressed.

I do see a lot of overlap between the two machines for joinery. The DDF40 does allow sequencing of holes for shelf support where the Domino doesn't.

I am very pleased with the quality of the DDF40 and its accessories. The fit and finish are flawless. It's accuracy is perfect! I really like the use of spring loaded locator pins rather than the flappers that come on the newer Dominos.

I called Timberwolf several times with questions and the response was excellent.

I think loose tenons provide greater strength than the 8mm and 6mm dowels and with the tight/loose mortise technique, tolerate laxer positioning. The DDF40, even in inexperienced hands (mine), is totally accurate. I did a test joint with a matrix of 8 dowels and it went together perfectly the first time.

As with the Domino, the DDF40's manual is rudimentary at best.
Birdhunter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2019, 01:33 PM »
For all intents and purposes, the Duo Doweller is just that, a double dowelling machine, albeit a very well designed and built one.
Dowels are fine in a lot of instances but, not sure how the joint strength would hold up, compared to a Domino? Certainly a single dowel V a Domino, the Domino would be stronger because of the shape.

Many years ago we used to make a lot of hardwood doors, we offered them in superior hardwoods with all mortise and tenon joints, and also a cheaper timber version, and with dowel jointing to keep cost down. The dowelled doors were nowhere near as durable as the mortise and tenon version. That still stands today, so with that thought, as the Domino is similar to mortise and tenon joint system, I favour that method.

Thing is though, Domino joints are OTT in many situations, often biscuit, dowel or pocket hole joints are more than adequate.

For something a bit different, the Lamello biscuit joiner, used with their connector system is very strong but expensive.
I think these other machines are more of an alternative to the Domino, as opposed to rival.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #78 on: August 04, 2019, 02:08 PM »
I like to have options.

A couple years before the Domino came out I had a commission make a large L shaped set of bookcases finished in Tung oil but keep the wood presence minimal as in thin elements. Maple ply with veneered edges, shared uprights.

The big corner cabinet had to be knockdown for transport. At that time my best option was dowels but the Duo Doweler was too costly (and I think only the Hoffmann was available here?)

My first test failed, not enough precision. Discovered that the Festool VS600 had a 32mm drilling template so bought that and figured out a way to rig it.  With a dowel every 32mm there was enough friction to keep the parts together when clamped/hammered.


All joints doweled. Also found an installed pic.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 08:25 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #79 on: August 04, 2019, 02:13 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

For some cuts, I've found that the MT55 with the dust bag is as clean as the TS55 with a vacuum.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2019, 02:18 PM »
.

I already have Festool jig saws and a tracksaw so the Duo Doweler may be my only Mafell purchase.

In my opinion, you're missing out, especially with these prices.  I love the fact that I have probably 25' worth of rail, clamps, and an angle jig in something akin to a shotgun case.  Connecting rails is SO easy!  No more aftermarket "workarounds" on that or multiple flips or accessories.

I can clamp right next to the cut line, too.  I really appreciate that.  No more rail strip coming off inadvertently, either.  Rails have built-in hose deflectors.  Saw has better hose angle guides that don't rotate back in the way.

Pins instead of paddles on joiner.  Awesome jigsaw that doesn't need a second systainer of accessories.  Missing out...
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 02:27 PM by Kodi Crescent »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2019, 03:47 PM »
@Kodi Crescent   Timberwolf should send you a commission.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2750
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #82 on: August 04, 2019, 04:18 PM »
When Mafell introduces a battery version of their jigsaw, I will be sorely tempted.

For how I use my TS55 and Festool jig saws (yes, I have two), they are more than adequate. The Mafell jig saw and track saw look really nice, but offer marginal benefits over my Festool units for my uses.
Birdhunter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #83 on: August 04, 2019, 04:29 PM »
I like to have options.

A couple years before the Domino came out I had a commission make a large L shaped set of bookcases finished in Tung oil but keep the wood presence minimal as in thin elements. Maple ply with veneered edges, shared uprights.

The big corner cabinet had to be knockdown for transport. At that time my best option was dowels but the Duo Doweler was too costly (and I think only the Hoffmann was available here?)

My first test failed, not enough precision. Discovered that the Festool VS600 had a 32mm drilling template so bought that and figured out a way to rig it.  With a dowel every 32mm there was enough friction to keep the parts together when clamped/hammered.


All joints doweled.

Very nice job, and shows that with thought, a job can be completed in many different ways  [thumbs up]

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #84 on: August 04, 2019, 04:33 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

For some cuts, I've found that the MT55 with the dust bag is as clean as the TS55 with a vacuum.

Indeed, it was very noticeably with mine too. To be fair though, I have run a cordless Makita plunge saw with just a dust bag, and that gave surprisingly good results. Not quite on par with the MT-55 but, still very good, and the sense of freedom, and lack of dust really grabbed me.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #85 on: August 04, 2019, 06:45 PM »
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor.  It's a good saw but, expensive.

For some cuts, I've found that the MT55 with the dust bag is as clean as the TS55 with a vacuum.

Indeed, it was very noticeably with mine too. To be fair though, I have run a cordless Makita plunge saw with just a dust bag, and that gave surprisingly good results. Not quite on par with the MT-55 but, still very good, and the sense of freedom, and lack of dust really grabbed me.

If I had the dough and the need I'd get the cordless MT55 and just go with the dust bag.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #86 on: August 04, 2019, 10:51 PM »
If I had the dough and the need I'd get the cordless MT55 and just go with the dust bag.

I'm with you Kodi...ever since I purchased the TSC the TS has remained in it's Systainer. It's been sitting in the corner for the last 4 years...alone. Using a saw without a cord and a vac hose attached has been such a liberating experience. It's actually fun to use.  [big grin]

So here's my conundrum, purchase the corded MT55 because it's a great deal and use the TSC for most of my cutting and then employ the MT55 when the going gets tough. In that case I'd move the TS 55 down the road.

OR

Spend the extra $500 and purchase the cordless MT55 while putting both the TSC & TS down the road while having the luxury of cutting without a cord & without a vac hose.

It's guaranteed that one of these two scenarios will happen, I just need to think about it a little longer.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2019, 11:46 PM »
@Cheese Get the cordless MT55 and be done with it.  I started with the MT55 (corded).  I happened upon a TSC for a really good price and I’ve found myself using that every chance I get.  The cordless aspect won me over and the dust collection with the bag is far better than I imagined. 
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2019, 12:04 AM »
@Cheese Get the cordless MT55 and be done with it.  I started with the MT55 (corded).  I happened upon a TSC for a really good price and I’ve found myself using that every chance I get.  The cordless aspect won me over and the dust collection with the bag is far better than I imagined.

Thanks for that Raj...The corded aspect, especially for a circ saw that you're dragging down a rail with a vac hose and an electrical cord attached, that's catching on the sharp edges of the rail, has never been fun for me. I've put up with it because the results are so satisfying.

The TSC on the other hand is just plain fun to use.

So thinking just a bit more, by putting both the TS & TSC down the road, it would probably take care of paying for the majority of the cost of the cordless MT55 along with it's batteries.

So Raj are you saying that even though you own the MT55, you use the TSC more often because of the convenience factor?


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2019, 12:06 AM »
What about power?  18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2019, 12:09 AM »
What about power?  18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

Michael...why do you butt in and ruin my sugar high?  [tongue]

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2019, 12:21 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2019, 12:24 AM »
I’m trying to figure this out too. The only thing I’m sure of is I have too many saws.

AT 65 (used for dense stuff), ATF 55 (with tiny thin kerf Freud blade for pocket cuts in face grain ply), TS 55 (for general use but usually melamine), HKC 55 (and rails for what it’s good for), TSC 55 (for going cordless), TS 75 for deep cuts and aluminum extrusions).

So, the MT55 @18v is much less appealing to me than the doweler but it’s still appealing...and so is the little cordless saw and it’s Flexi-Rail.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #93 on: August 05, 2019, 12:46 AM »
I’m trying to figure this out too. The only thing I’m sure of is I have too many saws.

AT 65 (used for dense stuff), ATF 55 (with tiny thin kerf Freud blade for pocket cuts in face grain ply), TS 55 (for general use but usually melamine), HKC 55 (and rails for what it’s good for), TSC 55 (for going cordless), TS 75 for deep cuts and aluminum extrusions).

So, the MT55 @18v is much less appealing to me than the doweler but it’s still appealing...and so is the little cordless saw and it’s Flexi-Rail.

And we have less than 60 days to decide... [eek]...I think the MT55 will take the place of the TS 75 for deep cuts (cut from both sides, plus a little jointer action) and it will also certainly handle the aluminum cutting.

It then becomes corded versus cordless. I find it difficult to not embrace cordless tools 100%. I"m finding I'm now using my ETSC cordless sander 5X more than the ETS EC 125/150 combo. It's portable, it's cordless, it's hoseless. It's a pleasure to use.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #94 on: August 05, 2019, 12:57 AM »
Personally I think that the TSC55 will outperform the Mafell - just because of the voltage. It is one of the tools where I feel that Festool got everything right. Now if you wanted to consolidate rail systems then that is a different matter. I see a corded MT55 and Duo Dowler in my future.

FWIW - Acme has great prices on Bosch rails - just got the long Bosch rail for the price of the Mafell 1600 rail.

Offline P2P

  • Posts: 51
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #95 on: August 05, 2019, 01:33 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

Ha!  You might be right!  My new P1cc showed up about a week ago.  Will be using it for the first time on a project in about a week.  Can't wait to put it to use!

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #96 on: August 05, 2019, 02:39 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

 [big grin]  [thumbs up]

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #97 on: August 05, 2019, 02:49 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
Reading this thread the temptation is great and growing. If I end up buying something I'll hold FOG community responsible.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:52 AM by Svar »

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 167
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #98 on: August 05, 2019, 04:59 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
^True story^  [big grin]

After reading about how users feel about the P1CC and watching countless videos (yours too ScotF) I'm in delivery page refresh mode. A few findings that may help tip others over the edge:

  • By the Bosch rails as they appear to be exactly the same as the Mafell but in blue... and way cheaper. Bosch make them for Mafell from what I can see
  • The rails ability to clamp right next to the cut line looks great for working with narrower stock. Festool sized clamps won't fit the track so be prepared to say, "you're ****ing kidding me!" when you see the price of the bosch FSN rail clamps. I hunted around and found a pair in the UK (from FFX) for just over £50 a pair. You can pay double that, easily
  • I have a festool plug-it connector en route to try getting it swapped over. It looks to be a straight forward switch both being 240V.  Someone detailed swapping over their DuoDowler on the Mafell users forum (https://bit.ly/2YCbNa4) and the process should be similar.
  • To all intents and purposes, the Mafell jigsaw blades (except the W1) have direct and way cheaper Bosch equivalents. Again, credit to the Mafell forum for the detective work on this https://bit.ly/2SXBjoU

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #99 on: August 05, 2019, 07:32 AM »
What about power?  18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

You know, I forgot about that.  You’re absolutely right.  That would certainly make me rethink a cordless MT55 as my only tracksaw, especially if you’re using it on hardwoods.
-Raj

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #100 on: August 05, 2019, 09:44 AM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
Reading this thread the temptation is great and growing. If I end up buying something I'll hold FOG community responsible.

@Svar   You are a critical thinker on the subject of tools. I’d like to know which Mafells have held your interest.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #101 on: August 05, 2019, 10:25 AM »
The Mafell track system is trying to get me to buy yet another saw.

Easy and reliable joining of track sections
Aero-Fix clamping (using the vacuum suction to hold the rail to the work)
clamping the rail to narrow stock

If the Flexi-Rail was also compatible with the MT55 I’d be sold...

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #102 on: August 05, 2019, 10:30 AM »
What about power?  18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

Go figure...this may not be an issue. Recently I actually had better luck ripping aromatic cedar with the 18v HKC than using the 36V TSC.

See reply 21:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/hk-55-has-ts-55-motor/msg581440/#msg581440

Starting at reply 4:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/tsc-55-blade-marks-in-aromatic-cedar/msg579336/#msg579336

I also noticed that the Mafell blades all have a 1.8 mm thick kerf like the HKC. That's a 20% smaller kerf.

Also of note is Mafell offers a 162 mm diameter blade so that the MT 55 has a true 2" depth capacity when using it on a rail.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 11:59 AM by Cheese »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #103 on: August 05, 2019, 01:25 PM »
Talked with a friendly knowledgeable guy at Timberwolf.

Some facts to consider,

MT55 cordless runs at 4850 rpm, and does not have a riving knife. Mafell claimed the knife was not needed on their MT55 (corded) because it runs at higher speed, 6200 rpm. (A side note, my old ATF55 has started randomly bypassing the speed control system on it's own, something I've desired for a long time. Yesterday it started up out of the gate like a screaming banshee, I'm guessing 6500 rpm. Cut great! No shuddering. Out of curiosity I fiddled with the speed control dial and imediately the speed was governed and the grinding returned. [mad])

The neat little Flexi-Rail that curls up in a Systainer can be used with larger saws at 90 degrees with no issue but because it is very thin the cut line on bevel cuts will be outboard of the splinter guard.

Bosch guide rails are made in the Mafell factory and are no different except in color. There will be/are Bosch rails with holes punched for use with a Bosch router base, probably to imitate the LR32 system.

The DDF 40 Duo dowewler comes with two 8mm bits and two 6mm bits. Can not swap the 6mm bits for the 5mm bits I'd prefer so thats an extra $78.

All Mafell products have to be shipped according to Mafell's scope of delivery. So the slightly larger (crosscuts 16" instead of the under 10" of the KSS 400) KSS 500 cordless cutting system comes in a big steel case (31"x12"x11") instead of the familiar Systainer.

Timberwolf ships via FedEx. Supposedly FedEx treats guide rails better than UPS. Shipping is not free as we've become accustomed to with Festools. Buying more than one tool at a time might save a little on shipping?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2019, 06:26 PM »
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
Reading this thread the temptation is great and growing. If I end up buying something I'll hold FOG community responsible.
@Svar   You are a critical thinker on the subject of tools. I’d like to know which Mafells have held your interest.
@Michael Kellough I bought gently used P1CC a while ago and was convinced when I needed to cut small accurate circles out of 3/4 ply. Could not believe how well it worked.
Now eyeing a carpentry saw.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 01:28 PM by Svar »

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #105 on: August 06, 2019, 01:32 AM »
Yes. Buying more saves on shipping...about $15.00 to the west coast buying a MT and Duo Doweler, for example. Other manufacturers make dowel bits...CMT, for example, for less cost than Mafell.

Bosch clamps are cheaper than Mafell screw clamps. The new Mafell quick style are more costly, but can be used as a regular quick clamp should you so choose.

One year warranty...so I am waiting a few weeks to get tools before my next project. I did have to use the warranty with my first P1CC, but Timberwolf service was stellar and  I had a new saw in less than a week.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #106 on: August 06, 2019, 10:09 AM »
Talked with a friendly knowledgeable guy at Timberwolf.


The staff at Timberwolf Tools are great. They are very knowledgeable about the products they sell, and many of them have visited the Mafell factory in Germany for hands-on training. On the rare occasions that I've asked a question they didn't immediately have an answer for, they followed up quickly after consulting their notes or reaching out to the mothership.

The big thing to note is the return policy. Timberwolf generally serves the professional market, people who know exactly what they want. So, once you've used a tool, it's yours, don't try to return it because you don't like the color or you didn't understand what you were buying. Also, to qualify for the warranty users must sign a contract stating they are a professional user of power tools. Again, trying to skew away from casual users so they can focus on the professional market.

The Mafell tools are great. I have the KSS-300, KSS-400, KSS-40 18BL, P1cc, DD-40P, Erika 70, and S-35, haven't had a single hiccup with any of them.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 465
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #107 on: August 06, 2019, 11:16 AM »
 Also, to qualify for the warranty users must sign a contract stating they are a professional user of power tool.

I doubt that woud hold up in court in many states in the US.

Offline broseiden

  • Posts: 59
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #108 on: August 06, 2019, 11:33 AM »
Hey Tom -- I've been reading about the KSS 300 vs KSS 400, and I know there is some overlap in their functionality. Hoping you could offer some input on what might be the best choice for me, at least for the first one ;)

Tasks I think using a KSS may help increase my efficiency:

2x6 or 5/4 decking
Stair treads and risers
Stair stringers maybe?
Closet shelving
Trimming door jambs on pre-hungs

I dont see myself using a KSS for flooring (I use shears for LVP) or framing (dont do hip roofs or stuff where the  quick compound miter cutting would be nice). Might be nice for some exterior trim like fascia, or keeping it nearby while doing interior finishing fortaking a bit off of the square end of coped baseboard.

I'm leaning toward the 400 for depth of cut (if KSS works well for stringers and decking) and blade selection.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2750
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #109 on: August 06, 2019, 12:49 PM »
I was reading the Mafell site comments re their jigsaw. Lots of comments on the barrel getting too hot to hold. Is this a real issue?
Birdhunter

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 75
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #110 on: August 06, 2019, 02:24 PM »
I saw the same post as you. My P1cc gets warm, but never has gotten so hot I want to put it down. Not a real problem for me.

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 167
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #111 on: August 06, 2019, 03:23 PM »
P1CC arrived today and just taken it for a spin. Not disappointed at all. Only put it through some 18mm MDF so I don't think I taxed it much ;)

The splinter guards are in no danger of ever falling out like others I've quickly lost on other saws. Once they're in they're not coming out without a fight. The dust connector is similarly tight fitting.

I also noted how accustomed I am to everything wired having a plug-it connection on the tool. That convenience will be restored once the conversion socket arrives.

The W1 blade is "not bad" at all!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #112 on: August 06, 2019, 03:40 PM »
I was reading the Mafell site comments re their jigsaw. Lots of comments on the barrel getting too hot to hold. Is this a real issue?

I use mine outside all the time and I don’t have an issue. I just try to keep it in the shade when I’m not using it. I don’t wear gloves either as opposed to when I used to have the Original Fein.  [crying]

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #113 on: August 07, 2019, 12:17 AM »
Mine does not get hot...it is similar to every other BG jigsaw I own or use. Even in extended cutting sessions.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #114 on: August 07, 2019, 02:10 AM »
I’m pretty sure that any P1’s that got uncomfortably hot, were found to have a small issue, and were quickly repaired, or more often than not, completely replaced.

I think it boiled down to what some found hot, others did not, so basically, if an issue was raised on warranty, it was sorted very quickly.
So, if you own one of these machines, and it gets hot under normal use, get it sorted.
The machine will get warm like most barrel bodied machines do but, it shouldn’t get hot.

I think this issue was eliminated quite a while ago though.

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #115 on: August 07, 2019, 04:18 AM »
P1CC arrived today and just taken it for a spin. Not disappointed at all. Only put it through some 18mm MDF so I don't think I taxed it much ;)

The splinter guards are in no danger of ever falling out like others I've quickly lost on other saws. Once they're in they're not coming out without a fight. The dust connector is similarly tight fitting.

I also noted how accustomed I am to everything wired having a plug-it connection on the tool. That convenience will be restored once the conversion socket arrives.

The W1 blade is "not bad" at all!

I echo the same observations.
Yes the splinter guard goes in very tight. With the w1 blade unless you take out the splinter guard you can't remove the blade. Wish this mechanism was a bit smooth. Have to use brute force to take it off.

Also the dust extractor goes in very tight. Wish it was finer. May be with use it could get better.

After i opened the box i might have used the saw for 15 min and noticed it got warm..kinda hot that i noticed it. Also after 1st use a hex nut fell off. Glad i spotted it. Saved it. Reached out to Timber wolf.
Jeff responded immediately with the schematic and pointed that the hex nut was from the tilting base that secures the parallel fence. He was spot on with the observation. I have since put the nut back in.. but could it fall off again? I don't know. Wondering if I should secure it with a dab of glue.
On the heating part Jeff's response was ah well it's normal. Is a 900W motor and it's a barrel grip so you might feel it more. My point was i used it only for 15 min. Anyways i will continue to use it and if it's very noticeable will reach out again.

Point worth sharing is i did not get the feeling that the heating issue was acknowledged enough. Also i did not get the confidence come through to ease the customer. Rather the unsaid message was don't return the tool for this reason. If it's truly broken we will repair it for you.

Also my MT55 (corded) arrived. Beautiful tool. A lot more refined in build quality than the p1cc in my opinion. Superb cut quality. Ran it on the festool rail on my mft. Cut line is further away from the rubber lip. So no assist from the lip to prevent tear out... but absolutley no tear out.. glass smooth cuts. Sheer joy to work with the tool.
I have the ts75 at 13A that makes wayyy more noise when it cuts. The mt55 @ 13.5A is whisper smooth in comparison.  While i can feel the ts75 labor through a cut, mt55 just glides thro and feels as if it is not even cutting. I think it's a combination of a little more power, thin kerf, and a great blade. Lovin it.

P1CC cuts great. Left me wanting a little more refinement. I will be putting it through bigger and longer cuts before i declare if the tool should go back for repair.

For now I'd say timber wolf service is ok. When i read between the lines the message is "you have bought a great tool. And it should work. If it truly is broken we will repair it, but don't return the tool for any reason". And that might throw off a few.
Just sharing my experience. Both Mafell and Timberwolf are great companies and have been around for many years. Im sure if the need arises they would service their customers well. We'll see.


« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 04:23 AM by Blues »

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 167
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #116 on: August 07, 2019, 12:01 PM »
Plug-it conversion done and dusted. Very simple procedure to do and fits nicely in the box too. Yay for no long cable :D

Put a Bosch T344D (the Mafell W3) blade through a 95mm decking post no bother at all... and yes it was a 90 degree cut. Colour me shocked!

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #117 on: August 08, 2019, 09:04 PM »
Hey Tom -- I've been reading about the KSS 300 vs KSS 400, and I know there is some overlap in their functionality. Hoping you could offer some input on what might be the best choice for me, at least for the first one ;)

Tasks I think using a KSS may help increase my efficiency:

2x6 or 5/4 decking
Stair treads and risers
Stair stringers maybe?
Closet shelving
Trimming door jambs on pre-hungs

I dont see myself using a KSS for flooring (I use shears for LVP) or framing (dont do hip roofs or stuff where the  quick compound miter cutting would be nice). Might be nice for some exterior trim like fascia, or keeping it nearby while doing interior finishing fortaking a bit off of the square end of coped baseboard.

I'm leaning toward the 400 for depth of cut (if KSS works well for stringers and decking) and blade selection.

Sorry for the delay, "busy-busy!".

I think the KSS-40 would be the best match for you, based on what you've described. The KSS-40 is a nice, compact tool that excels at trim and millwork, and is a champ at crosscutting 2x material (no bevel). Paired with a Erika 70 and my P1cc, there's not much I can't cut on a trim project.

If you find yourself cutting a lot of 2x material at a bevel or ripping 2x material, then you may want to look at the KSS-60, KSS-50, or KSS-400. They're fabulous saws (I love my KSS-400) and can absolutely be used for trim and millwork, but due to their size and weight I really prefer them for framing.

My MT55 is a dream in the shop. The Mafell tracks are great, but I still have the option to use Festool tracks if I want to use my TSO parallel guides.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2019, 05:31 AM »
The MT55 on Festool track works great. But the cut line is further past the rubber lip with no assist to prevent tear out. Still the MT55 provided remarkable glass smooth cuts.  Truly a lovely tool.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2019, 09:34 AM »
The MT55 on Festool track works great. But the cut line is further past the rubber lip with no assist to prevent tear out. Still the MT55 provided remarkable glass smooth cuts.  Truly a lovely tool.

Can this be adjusted on the MT55 like the TS saws?

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2019, 11:58 AM »
Can this be adjusted on the MT55 like the TS saws?

NO (that i am aware of). The only setting available would be to adjust the wiggle on the track to make it snug fit. I really like the fact that those knobs are on top of the saw (similar to the two green ones on the festool).

I have a TS 75.. and is there an adjustment to move the blade in or out? If it were.. stupid me, am not aware of it.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2019, 12:09 PM »
Attached is a picture. Hope it helps.
I just removed the plastic lip.. moved it further and stuck it back. Then used the MT55 to trim it. Now it is adjusted for the MT55 which i hope will be my primary saw. Festool baldes are thicker. I noticed the same on the TS75 when i used the Tenryu blades as well.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2019, 02:38 PM »
When the TS 75 first arrived buyers who also owned a 55 (ATF or TS) were annoyed that the 75 cut down the splinter guard by about a half mm. Looks like the MT 55 cuts a bit beyond where a TS 55 would cut.

The position of the Festool saws can be adjusted.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2019, 03:50 PM »
The MT-55 does have adjustment, just not much of it, well when using it with Festool or Makita rails that is.
When on the Mafell rails, with the plastic base insert mounted, the blade is close to the splinter guard as you’d expect.

It’s like Mafell are saying they prefer us to use their rails. Which makes sense as they’re superior.
Whenever I use the MT-55, I always use the Mafell rails that came with it. The saw feels like it’s gliding on air with them.

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #124 on: August 10, 2019, 04:47 PM »
How do we adjust the blades to go in or out of the cutline on the festool saws?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #125 on: August 10, 2019, 05:15 PM »
How do we adjust the blades to go in or out of the cutline on the festool saws?

Have a look at this:

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #126 on: August 10, 2019, 07:48 PM »
Have a look at this:
[/quote]

Thank you!

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #127 on: August 11, 2019, 03:38 AM »
Have a look at this:

Thank you!
[/quote]

You’re welcome.

Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #128 on: August 15, 2019, 08:02 PM »
The mt55 is the best saw I have ever owned or used, I kinda want a second one while they are on sale. Finally got a p1cc, it every bit lives up to the hype. Now I want a dd40 lol

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #129 on: August 19, 2019, 02:14 AM »
I would never have bought these items if they were not on sale.
The MT55 would replace my TS 75. The MT55 is the best saw i have used.

The DDF40 compliments the Domino XL beautifully. Love the Domino XL and the connectors. DDF40 is easy to use and very precise. Just the LR32 is about 500$. With this tool no big set up to drill shelf pins. Very quick and intuitive for a domino user. Fantastic for sheet goods.

The P1CC is like no other. No comparison.



Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #130 on: August 19, 2019, 12:23 PM »
I’ve said before, that in my opinion, the MT55 is the best designed plunge saw available.
However, my 36v bluetooth Makita is still my favourite, and my very little used TS55 has now been sold.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1186
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #131 on: August 23, 2019, 04:57 PM »
I bit. Took the plunge... and got the new DDF40.  It's a essentially a domino that uses dowels.  Everything lines up perfectly and the accessories I am still working through.  I will say their manual is even worse than Festool's and they don't have the supplemental versions, either.  Good thing they have quite a few training videos at Timberwolf.  I was told Mafell relies more on their dealer network for training.  Otherwise, I'm thrilled with it.   
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router and jig saw plates.  Sawstop contractor.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #132 on: August 23, 2019, 05:15 PM »
Although I returned my DDF40 I could have used it yesterday on some cabinet stretchers. They had to be narrow and I could have used the extra space (dowels instead of Dominos) for more pocket screws.

Offline broseiden

  • Posts: 59
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #133 on: August 26, 2019, 10:51 AM »
I think my favorite thing about the MT55CC as compared to my TS55 is that the hose connector fits the hose much more securely, and when rotated into a position it stays there much more securely. Both compared to the stock hose port, and the one for the dust bag.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 593
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #134 on: August 27, 2019, 01:12 AM »
Haven’t posted in a while.

Owned a P1CC.  Best corded Jigsaw ever.
Bosch is no slouch.

Owned a MT55cc. Best tracksaw ever.
Festool is no slouch, but it’s beat (especially in power).
From what I understand, the cordless version eats the cordless Festool for breakfast.

Owned the KSS40. The whole kit with flexi rail.  It is amazing.
Probably more powerful than the larger cordless HKC.

The larger kss saws eat the HKC for breakfast.

Owned the original Duo Doweler.  Not going to compare to Domino and Lamello, because they are all better than the others at one thing or another. I would take it plus a biscuit joiner over the DF500, however.

Mafell consolidates their tools + inserts into less and smaller systainers than Festool.  To be fair, Festool has to design exponentially more inserts. Observe the P1CC, there’s a place for everything (including the rose box full of blades) inside of a SYS1.

Timberwolf is a fantastic dealer.

People overate their (Bosch’s, to be precise) guide rails, however. 
True, linking rails is miles ahead of the Festool method, but that is all they have going for them.   No top t-slot.  Bottom t-slot is thin and thus the rail clamps you can easily bend with your thumbs like Uri Gellar to silverwear while on steroids.  The miter/square rail attachment ain’t no replacement for the TSO rail square.  Lighter, easier to move on you.   Flexi rail is legit, though.

I’m not pooping on Festool. Best electric sanders (and so many). Best routers. 
Still the best electronic clutch on a drill.  MFT is now in the ridiculous price range, but still nothing better off the shelf.   etc

Snatch up these deals. 



« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 01:14 AM by yetihunter »

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #135 on: August 27, 2019, 07:57 AM »
When i picked up the DDF40 (already had the XL with seneca) in my mind was thinking.. i might have some overlap in the functionality. I think dowels have their place and perfectly compliment the dominos. For starters the dual dowels are strong enough. I find myself reaching for the DDF40 when working with sheet goods, but certainly for the Dominos when attaching legs or working on bigger projects. The XL in my opinion is a beautiful tool..(id rate the xl best festool tool) so well balanced and love the front and rear handles. The DDF is not ergonomically so awesome.. but good enough. Luckily have had no issues with the plunge (could be a stiffer spring) or the power switch.

So i see both tools compliment each other. I will share some pictures of a walnut cabinet where i have used both.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 593
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #136 on: August 27, 2019, 08:12 PM »
When i picked up the DDF40 (already had the XL with seneca) in my mind was thinking.. i might have some overlap in the functionality. I think dowels have their place and perfectly compliment the dominos. For starters the dual dowels are strong enough. I find myself reaching for the DDF40 when working with sheet goods, but certainly for the Dominos when attaching legs or working on bigger projects. The XL in my opinion is a beautiful tool..(id rate the xl best festool tool) so well balanced and love the front and rear handles. The DDF is not ergonomically so awesome.. but good enough. Luckily have had no issues with the plunge (could be a stiffer spring) or the power switch.

So i see both tools compliment each other. I will share some pictures of a walnut cabinet where i have used both.

It’s been long enough to forget particularly what and where but for thinner material you can fit a significantly larger dowel than a domino.   Dominos get so small at a point that you’re better off with a biscuit (imho).  A lot of FOG members express selling off their biscuit joiner after buying the DF500.  That’s nice and all, but was it a Lamello or was it a Harbor Freight?  Where did you buy your biscuits?  How were they stored? I digress.   Your cuts have to be spot on to only use the Mafell, but the thought process I always had in mind was (say you’re building a box) to use the doweler on the front of facing side of the piece for perfect registration and dominos or biscuits in the back of the piece.  Quick and fool proof for the quick and dirty minded.   That said, it’s not the tool to go to if you only want to own one joiner. 

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 41
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #137 on: August 27, 2019, 11:59 PM »
Agree with you re. biscuit joiners - if you replaced one with a Domino, then you weren't using it in the right way to start with. Like a lot of tools, they co-exist and work well together. It's like selling a jigsaw because you now have a circular saw.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #138 on: August 28, 2019, 10:49 AM »
Haven’t posted in a while.

Owned a P1CC.  Best corded Jigsaw ever.
Bosch is no slouch.

Owned a MT55cc. Best tracksaw ever.
Festool is no slouch, but it’s beat (especially in power).
From what I understand, the cordless version eats the cordless Festool for breakfast.

Owned the KSS40. The whole kit with flexi rail.  It is amazing.
Probably more powerful than the larger cordless HKC.

The larger kss saws eat the HKC for breakfast.

Owned the original Duo Doweler.  Not going to compare to Domino and Lamello, because they are all better than the others at one thing or another. I would take it plus a biscuit joiner over the DF500, however.

Mafell consolidates their tools + inserts into less and smaller systainers than Festool.  To be fair, Festool has to design exponentially more inserts. Observe the P1CC, there’s a place for everything (including the rose box full of blades) inside of a SYS1.

Timberwolf is a fantastic dealer.

People overate their (Bosch’s, to be precise) guide rails, however. 
True, linking rails is miles ahead of the Festool method, but that is all they have going for them.   No top t-slot.  Bottom t-slot is thin and thus the rail clamps you can easily bend with your thumbs like Uri Gellar to silverwear while on steroids.  The miter/square rail attachment ain’t no replacement for the TSO rail square.  Lighter, easier to move on you.   Flexi rail is legit, though.

I’m not pooping on Festool. Best electric sanders (and so many). Best routers. 
Still the best electronic clutch on a drill.  MFT is now in the ridiculous price range, but still nothing better off the shelf.   etc

Snatch up these deals.

Since you have "owned" them what are you using now? It's hard to take an endorsement from someone who no longer owns them or apparently Festool or at least believes Mafell to be better than Festool for the tools listed.

I'm not brand-locked owning tools from Festool, Mafell, Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, and others so I am definitely curious what you are using. I have never bent a Mafell or Bosch rail, but if someone has a habit of over tightening things then I guess it could be an issue.  The rest of your commentary is in line with my experience.

I'll add to your Festool router rating of best...there is no router that can hold its own against the 2200. I'm using mine more and more for things you'd logically use a lighter router for and realizing there is no comparison between the 1400 and 2200.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 593
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #139 on: September 02, 2019, 08:36 AM »
Haven’t posted in a while.

Owned a P1CC.  Best corded Jigsaw ever.
Bosch is no slouch.

Owned a MT55cc. Best tracksaw ever.
Festool is no slouch, but it’s beat (especially in power).
From what I understand, the cordless version eats the cordless Festool for breakfast.

Owned the KSS40. The whole kit with flexi rail.  It is amazing.
Probably more powerful than the larger cordless HKC.

The larger kss saws eat the HKC for breakfast.

Owned the original Duo Doweler.  Not going to compare to Domino and Lamello, because they are all better than the others at one thing or another. I would take it plus a biscuit joiner over the DF500, however.

Mafell consolidates their tools + inserts into less and smaller systainers than Festool.  To be fair, Festool has to design exponentially more inserts. Observe the P1CC, there’s a place for everything (including the rose box full of blades) inside of a SYS1.

Timberwolf is a fantastic dealer.

People overate their (Bosch’s, to be precise) guide rails, however. 
True, linking rails is miles ahead of the Festool method, but that is all they have going for them.   No top t-slot.  Bottom t-slot is thin and thus the rail clamps you can easily bend with your thumbs like Uri Gellar to silverwear while on steroids.  The miter/square rail attachment ain’t no replacement for the TSO rail square.  Lighter, easier to move on you.   Flexi rail is legit, though.

I’m not pooping on Festool. Best electric sanders (and so many). Best routers. 
Still the best electronic clutch on a drill.  MFT is now in the ridiculous price range, but still nothing better off the shelf.   etc

Snatch up these deals.

Since you have "owned" them what are you using now? It's hard to take an endorsement from someone who no longer owns them or apparently Festool or at least believes Mafell to be better than Festool for the tools listed.

I'm not brand-locked owning tools from Festool, Mafell, Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, and others so I am definitely curious what you are using. I have never bent a Mafell or Bosch rail, but if someone has a habit of over tightening things then I guess it could be an issue.  The rest of your commentary is in line with my experience.

I'll add to your Festool router rating of best...there is no router that can hold its own against the 2200. I'm using mine more and more for things you'd logically use a lighter router for and realizing there is no comparison between the 1400 and 2200.

I use nothing now.  I closed my shop last year and began a fire sale the minute I got laid off.  But thanks for asking. 😂

Tomorrow I’ll have time to add more constructive feedback as I read the whole thread and there’s a lot of different questions that came up that I can answer.
In the meantime, no, there was no Festool nor Mafell exodus.  I should also qualify my statements about varying $$$ joiners: if one is interested in only one joiner to do 99% of their joining needs...the DF500 (or DF700) is (imho) the way to go. 

I should clarify on the guiderails.  It's the guiderail clamps that bend (the part that mates with the track) and not the actual guiderails.   

« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 12:14 PM by yetihunter »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timberwolf tools LAST DAY1!
« Reply #140 on: September 30, 2019, 01:24 PM »
Called to check on scope of delivery for the KSS 40, the small HKC style saw. It’s very interesting because of the Flexirail that rolls up to fit in the Sys 4 but unrolls to allow you to (just barely) cross cut a sheet of plywood.

There are two ways to buy the saw, basically with batteries ($999) or without batteries ($815) But, the sans batteries version also omits the Flexirail which costs $195 by itself so if you want the Flexirail you can get it for less by buying the full kit, and get 2 batteries a charger thrown in. Quite an incentive.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #141 on: October 04, 2019, 05:39 PM »
Just received my Mafell MT 55cc today. The packaging reminds me of Bob Marino.  [smile]

Inside the Systainer the saw is cradled with bunched-up packaging paper. The Systainer is then packaged inside of a tight fitting white cardboard box. The white cardboard box is packaged with air pillows and placed in a larger cardboard box. The larger outside cardboard box has 4 FRAGILE CONTENTS labels on the cover and 1 FRAGILE CONTENTS label on each of the other 4 sides.  [big grin]   Pretty sweet.

Also, Timberwolf guarantees the product for 1 year. However, if you register the product on the Mafell.de website, Mafell will issue a 3 year warranty card.

Also of note is the sale prices are still available while Timberwolf negotiates future pricing with Mafell.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 05:42 PM by Cheese »

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #142 on: October 04, 2019, 05:42 PM »
Just received my Mafell MT 55cc today. The packaging reminds me of Bob Marino.  [smile]

Inside the Systainer the saw is cradled with bunched-up packaging paper. The Systainer is then packaged inside of a tight fitting white cardboard box. The white cardboard box is packaged with air pillows and placed in a larger cardboard box. The larger outside cardboard box has 4 FRAGILE CONTENTS labels on the cover and 1 FRAGILE CONTENTS label on each of the other 4 sides.  [big grin]   Pretty sweet.

Also, Timberwolf guarantees the product for 1 year. However, if you register the product on the Mafell.de website, Mafell will issue a 3 year warranty card.

I did not know that you could get a 3 year warranty - interesting! Yes, the packaging is good. Even so, I had some minor damage to my Systainer - not enough to send back, but a bummer on a new tool nonetheless. TT took care of it with a credit and all is good. Love the MT55 saw. Getting my DuoDoweler on Monday!

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #143 on: October 04, 2019, 08:37 PM »
I give Timberwolf top marks as a dealership.

My KSS 40 arrived with a stealth upgrade. The originally scope of delivery listed 92 watt hour batteries. They were replaced by the newer 99 watt hour packs. The same batteries that add nearly $600 to the price of the MT55 18M bl added less than $200 to the KSS 40 (and includes a free Flexirail).

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 294
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #144 on: October 05, 2019, 08:05 AM »
Just received my Mafell MT 55cc today. The packaging reminds me of Bob Marino.  [smile]


Does it work with Festool rails?  Can it be adjusted to fit existing rails?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #145 on: October 05, 2019, 10:06 AM »
Does it work with Festool rails?  Can it be adjusted to fit existing rails?

It does work with Festool rails. There's a black Delrin insert held in with 4 screws that needs to be removed first.

I'm curious if the Mafell can be adjusted relative to the Festool splinter strip and if it can also be adjusted for fit on the Festool rail.

I'll take a look today.

I'm blown away with how easy it is to change blades.  [not worthy] [not worthy]

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #146 on: October 05, 2019, 11:42 AM »
The MT55 is an exceptional saw. Power is more than the TS75 with the newer 13.5 Amp motor. The only thing that is a knock is cutting bevels is off the splinter guard on the rail - it does not pivot around the cut-line. I do not cut that many bevels, but if I do I would consider a separate set of rails dedicated to bevel cuts. Otherwise it is near perfect in my opinion. I still really like my TSC too and do not think that will ever be replaced. It is another tool where I think that Festool just got everything right.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #147 on: October 05, 2019, 03:26 PM »
Just received my Mafell MT 55cc today. The packaging reminds me of Bob Marino.  [smile]

Inside the Systainer the saw is cradled with bunched-up packaging paper. The Systainer is then packaged inside of a tight fitting white cardboard box. The white cardboard box is packaged with air pillows and placed in a larger cardboard box. The larger outside cardboard box has 4 FRAGILE CONTENTS labels on the cover and 1 FRAGILE CONTENTS label on each of the other 4 sides.  [big grin]   Pretty sweet.

Also, Timberwolf guarantees the product for 1 year. However, if you register the product on the Mafell.de website, Mafell will issue a 3 year warranty card.

Also of note is the sale prices are still available while Timberwolf negotiates future pricing with Mafell.

You might want to double check this. I think the 3 year warranty is only for tools purchased from Europe resellers. If there was a 3 year warranty then Timberwolf would offer it directly as Woodcraft and other vendors do for Festool. Things may have changed though.

If you were to travel to Europe and buy a tool and then register it you probably could get it serviced though you would have to mail it back to Europe.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #148 on: October 05, 2019, 03:45 PM »

You might want to double check this. I think the 3 year warranty is only for tools purchased from Europe resellers. If there was a 3 year warranty then Timberwolf would offer it directly as Woodcraft and other vendors do for Festool. Things may have changed though.

When you register on line at mafell.de and then add the tool number & serial number and you then choose from a pull down list of about 1000 dealers (most of which seem to be in Germany), and choose Timberwolf Tools, the screen comes back with your personal information, the tool you purchased, the dealer you purchased it from and the words 3 year warranty.   They also mentioned something about sending out an extended warranty card. I don’t know what form that will take, could be just an email or a plastic credit type card. We’ll see... [big grin]

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #149 on: October 05, 2019, 06:02 PM »
Thanks @Cheese. I just registered it and it worked great! Would have never known but for this thread. Hopefully will not need to use it.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #150 on: October 05, 2019, 09:55 PM »
Thanks @Cheese. I just registered it and it worked great! Would have never known but for this thread. Hopefully will not need to use it.

ScotF I echo your thoughts, if these tools are designed to be used by the timber framers on commercial sites, why is there only a 1 year guarantee? 

I’ve been a big Milwaukee fan for the last 40+ years. With over 50 Milwaukee tools, I’ve only had 3 warranty issues. 3 years of warranty coverage are the norm with Milwaukee tools. 

So focussing on Mafell, I never quite figured out why an industrial tool designed to be used for 8 hours, 5 days a week would only garner a 1 year warranty. There’s not a lot of pride in that statement.

Consequently, the Mafell 3 year offer resonated with me because at last the manufacturers were not just BS’ing the public about their warranty but actually standing firm and making a commitment.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #151 on: October 06, 2019, 12:59 AM »

It does work with Festool rails. There's a black Delrin insert held in with 4 screws that needs to be removed first.

I'm curious if the Mafell can be adjusted relative to the Festool splinter strip and if it can also be adjusted for fit on the Festool rail.


So here's the skinny with photos.

A photo of the sole plate of the MT 55 with the black Delrin insert still installed.



A photo of the sole plate with the Delrin insert removed, this will now ride on the Festool rail. The remaining black Delrin piece in the photo is an adjuster in the neutral position to fine tune the fit for use on a Mafell rail or a Festool rail. It's a rather clever twist.



One edge of the adjuster contacts the Festool rail while the other edge of the adjuster contacts the Mafell rail. Obviously one size doesn't fit all. [smile]

Here the adjuster is tweaked slightly, potentially applying pressure to both the Festool rail slot on the bottom and to the Mafell rail slot on the top.



And finally, here's the adjustment screws that will position the Mafell saw closer to or further away from the splinter strip. Again, one size doesn't fit all.

In my situation, I'll probably just adjust the MT 55 to fit the Festool splinter strip so it will work with the TSC & the HKC.

I'll then purchase a Mafell rail to use with the P1cc and the MT 55cc and the Mafell will cut the splinter strip as it is won't to do.

As a side note, the track engagement adjusters on the Mafell are really slick. They're detented so that each adjustment is a positive step and you can go forwards or backwards one small step at a time. Pretty slick.

As noted before, this saw really raises the bar on most every item.

The MT 55 blade spins at 6250 rpm vs the TS 55 blade at 5200 rpm.
The MT 55 blade has a kerf of 1.8 mm vs the TS 55 blade of 2.2 mm.
The MT 55 draws 1620 watts vs the TS 55 at 1200 watts.

The only nit I can pick is that the MT 55 does not have a riving knife. I'm thinking however, that the combination of the increased blade speed, decreased kerf thickness and higher amperage draw will negate the advantage of a riving knife as it will continue to soldier on cutting through the wood when the TS 55 has stalled out. We'll see...time will tell.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 03:44 PM by Cheese »

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #152 on: October 06, 2019, 03:06 PM »
I think that the new MT55 is closer to 1600 watts - it got a boost. Timberwolf told me that the it got more power when the Bosch came out to keep it as a differentiated, more top of the line saw. This also has an electronic riving knife - so the electronics detect if the blade is stalling and cuts power. I have done some tests in all manner of hardwood, 8/4 and thinner and have had zero issues so far. This saw never even seems to break a sweat.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #153 on: October 06, 2019, 03:42 PM »
I think that the new MT55 is closer to 1600 watts - it got a boost. Timberwolf told me that the it got more power when the Bosch came out to keep it as a differentiated, more top of the line saw. This also has an electronic riving knife - so the electronics detect if the blade is stalling and cuts power. I have done some tests in all manner of hardwood, 8/4 and thinner and have had zero issues so far. This saw never even seems to break a sweat.

Thanks @ScotF for the heads-up.  [big grin]   I checked mine and it's rated at 13.5 amps at 120v which equates to 1620 watts. That puts it at 1/2 amp greater current draw than either the Kapex or the TS 75. Pretty heady stuff for a 160 mm diameter saw blade.

It's also nice to know about the electronic riving knife because now that just makes sense. I looked at some of the larger Mafell saws and noticed they came with mechanical riving knives. That was a disconnect for me because it didn't make sense that they'd leave it off the MT 55. Now it's starting to come together.  Prove the functionality on the new smaller saw and if it passes muster, incorporate it into the other saws as they get upgraded.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #154 on: October 06, 2019, 04:04 PM »
I read a Mafell white paper that claimed the higher speed of the blade made up for the lack of a physical riding knife.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #155 on: October 06, 2019, 04:13 PM »
Got a chance to use the KSS 40 for the first time today.

“Cuts like a hot knife thru butter”. Read this many times but never said it before. And I was just cutting 5/4 Azek with a brand new blade but it was so smooth I had to double check that I’d set the depth of cut correctly and that I’d actually cut the stock. It had. And there was so little dust escaping that the idea was reinforced that I’d only scored the stock. The CT Sys gets credit there.

The motion of the saw on the rail is also extremely smooth compared to the HKC. Love that it fits (with rail attached) in the Sys 4. The only disappointment is that the battery has to be removed and stowed in the bottom of the Sys first.

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 75
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #156 on: October 06, 2019, 07:16 PM »
@Michael Kellough, what battery are you using? I have the Kss 40 with the 4.0 ah battery, and it stores fine without having to remove the battery. Are you using a 5.0 ah battery, or larger?

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 75
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #157 on: October 06, 2019, 07:24 PM »
I just went and swapped out my 4.0 Ah with an 8.0 Ah battery and it closed also. Albeit, it was tight. Is your saw all the way down?

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #158 on: October 06, 2019, 07:32 PM »
My KSS-40 stores in the Systainer with the 6.2Ah (112Wh) battery mounted on the saw. It’s a snug fit, but it fits nonetheless.

That being said, if I expand to more Mafell or Metabo cordless tools I may make a separate home for the batteries and chargers in a Sys2, which is how I have my HILTI cordless tools set up (batteries and charger in one Systainer, “bare” tool kits in separate Systainers).
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #159 on: October 06, 2019, 08:46 PM »
Mine came with 5.5amp batteries.

Do you guys have the Flexirail in there too?
With the Flexirail it seems like not enough space but I didn’t push too hard.

Okay, I pushed pretty hard. It’s not going to fit with the Flexirail
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 08:52 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #160 on: October 06, 2019, 09:26 PM »
I have the KSS-40 on its track, Flexi-track, charger, 2x 6.2Ah batteries, edge guide, dust bag, and several blades in the Sys 4. That being said, yeah it’s a snug fit, and I’ll likely separate the batteries and charger into a separate case.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 75
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #161 on: October 07, 2019, 12:37 AM »
I have the same as Tom, except my batteries are 4.0 ah and only one extra blade. Closes without a problem.

Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #162 on: October 07, 2019, 09:15 AM »

It does work with Festool rails. There's a black Delrin insert held in with 4 screws that needs to be removed first.

I'm curious if the Mafell can be adjusted relative to the Festool splinter strip and if it can also be adjusted for fit on the Festool rail.


So here's the skinny with photos.

A photo of the sole plate of the MT 55 with the black Delrin insert still installed.

(Attachment Link)

A photo of the sole plate with the Delrin insert removed, this will now ride on the Festool rail. The remaining black Delrin piece in the photo is an adjuster in the neutral position to fine tune the fit for use on a Mafell rail or a Festool rail. It's a rather clever twist.

(Attachment Link)

One edge of the adjuster contacts the Festool rail while the other edge of the adjuster contacts the Mafell rail. Obviously one size doesn't fit all. [smile]

Here the adjuster is tweaked slightly, potentially applying pressure to both the Festool rail slot on the bottom and to the Mafell rail slot on the top.

(Attachment Link)

And finally, here's the adjustment screws that will position the Mafell saw closer to or further away from the splinter strip. Again, one size doesn't fit all.

In my situation, I'll probably just adjust the MT 55 to fit the Festool splinter strip so it will work with the TSC & the HKC.

I'll then purchase a Mafell rail to use with the P1cc and the MT 55cc and the Mafell will cut the splinter strip as it is won't to do.

As a side note, the track engagement adjusters on the Mafell are really slick. They're detented so that each adjustment is a positive step and you can go forwards or backwards one small step at a time. Pretty slick.

As noted before, this saw really raises the bar on most every item.

The MT 55 blade spins at 6250 rpm vs the TS 55 blade at 5200 rpm.
The MT 55 blade has a kerf of 1.8 mm vs the TS 55 blade of 2.2 mm.
The MT 55 draws 1620 watts vs the TS 55 at 1200 watts.

The only nit I can pick is that the MT 55 does not have a riving knife. I'm thinking however, that the combination of the increased blade speed, decreased kerf thickness and higher amperage draw will negate the advantage of a riving knife as it will continue to soldier on cutting through the wood when the TS 55 has stalled out. We'll see...time will tell.

Its got an electronic riving knife, if the saw starts to kick it shuts off- I havent tested this on mine, but jeff from timberwolf told me about the feature. I guess it was a very very big deal to get a saw like this in Europe made without a riving knife, so the technology was thoroughly tested by the “warning do not place plastic bag over head and seal the opening- you could suffocate” people.

Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #163 on: October 07, 2019, 09:38 AM »
Anyone who picked up an mt55, I highly recommend trying the mafell rails, they are super nice. I got a 3ft section just to try out, then I quickly ordered 2 more 5.2ft sections. The rail connector is absolutely brilliant, and changing the splinter strip is very slick!! Ive heard the bosch rails are the same, but I cant confirm that as I have only used the mafell branded ones, it looks the same but qc and/or overall build quality could possibly differ.  Anyway, just thought I would share. After I picked up the mt55 a couple months back I heard from a few people I should try the rails as well, glad I did.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #164 on: October 07, 2019, 09:55 AM »
The rails are very well-designed and worth migrating away from the Festool rails if only for the connector.

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 238
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #165 on: October 07, 2019, 10:22 AM »
Mine came with 5.5amp batteries.

Do you guys have the Flexirail in there too?
With the Flexirail it seems like not enough space but I didn’t push too hard.

Okay, I pushed pretty hard. It’s not going to fit with the Flexirail

Be sure to lower the saw to its lowest plunge depth and check that the crosscut rail is on the insert properly. It should fit with the flex rail.

John

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #166 on: October 07, 2019, 10:26 AM »

Its got an electronic riving knife, if the saw starts to kick it shuts off- I havent tested this on mine, but jeff from timberwolf told me about the feature. I guess it was a very very big deal to get a saw like this in Europe made without a riving knife, so the technology was thoroughly tested...

Found this on jlconline.com. Someone from the FOG contacted Mafell and asked them about the lack of a mechanical riving knife on the MT55. This is Mafell's reply 7 years ago.  [eek]  It seems like their electronic riving knife has some pretty good service history behind it.  [cool]


PRESS RELEASE
Safer sawing without a riving knife

MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw with kick-back protection


In its new MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw, MAFELL has combined the benefits of enhanced active safety, improved handling and enhanced cut quality – without a riving knife. According to the manufacturer, active kick-back protection averts the danger of recoil when the blade enters the work more effectively than a riving knife. In addition, design measures introduced alongside standard EN 60745-2-5, which entered force in 2007, have increased the passive safety of saws that dispense with a riving knife.

Especially when entering the workpiece, the blade of conventional plunge-cut saws can easily jam and thus cause a kick-back. The MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw significantly reduces the likelihood of this effect occurring. Thanks to the CUprex Compact motor driving the sawblade at a maximum of 6,200 rpm, the cutting speed is 20 per cent higher than usual. The teeth of the carbide-tipped sawblade thus remove less stock per revolution, which appreciably reduces the risk of jamming.

The probability of a kick-back arising from sawblade jamming is much lower while sawing is in progress as well. The high speed enables the blade to cut itself free more effectively. Additional safety is afforded by the automatic isolation of the power supply to the motor if the blade jams.

"The active kick-back protection provided by the high speed and automatic power supply interruption offers greater safety than a riving knife, which does not protect against the kick-back effect when the blade enters the work and can be a nuisance for the tradesman," comments Ralf Kohler, head of sales and marketing at MAFELL. Josef Riederer, a tradesman of Unterneuhausen, vindicates the manager's claim, "I feel safe when working with the MT 55 cc."

The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.

Dispensing with a riving knife makes the saw much easier to use. When changing the sawblade, for example, it is no longer necessary to change the riving knife according to the blade thickness and adjust it to suit the blade diameter. This not only accelerates the blade changing operation, but also reduces the workload when working with a variety of materials. Tradesmen are also delighted that the absence of a riving knife protects sensitive surfaces against the risk of scratch marks.
Media contacts:

Volker Simon​Ralf Kohler
Tel.: ​+49 711 248922-169​Tel.: ​+49 7423 812-135
Fax: ​+49 711 342185-32​Fax: ​+49 7423 812-218
E-mail: ​volker.simon@lmpr.de​E-mail: ​ralf.kohler@mafell.de

LässingMüller Public Relations GmbH ​MAFELL AG
Gerokstrasse 8​Beffendorfer Str. 4
70188 Stuttgart​78727 Oberndorf
Germany​Germany
www.lmpr.de​www.mafell.de

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #167 on: October 07, 2019, 11:02 AM »
I guess it was a very very big deal to get a saw like this in Europe made without a riving knife...
Not at all. In Europe smaller circular saws up to 210 mm typically don't have riving knives.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 11:06 AM by Svar »

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #168 on: October 07, 2019, 12:00 PM »
The electronic rising knife is great. I’ve only activated it a couple times, but it’s interesting to hear the saw just start to bog down, then the blade just slams to a stop, zero kick-back. Nifty.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #169 on: October 07, 2019, 12:56 PM »
The electronic rising knife is great. I’ve only activated it a couple times, but it’s interesting to hear the saw just start to bog down, then the blade just slams to a stop, zero kick-back. Nifty.
I think mechanical riving knife has benefits. In a pinching situation it actually holds the kerf open and prevents the blade from gouging the martial too deep. Riving knife is thicker than blade plate, so it starts working before the blade is pinched and you can keep cutting instead of having the saw stalled.

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 294
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #170 on: October 07, 2019, 04:01 PM »
Would you consider it a replacement for the 75 as well?  Besides the extra cut capacity would you be losing out on anything?

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 30
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #171 on: October 07, 2019, 04:16 PM »
Nothing. It's a joy to use mt55. I have not used my ts75 since. It's going on Ebay soon.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 622
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #172 on: October 07, 2019, 10:43 PM »

The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.


Hang on, are they saying on a MT 55 if the saw experiences kickback the blade retracts? De-plunges?  That sounds saw stop like.  I wasn't aware of this going on?

If this was a great tech (electronic riving knife) then why doesn't the Erika have it?  I don't think any of it hurts, but it does ask the question "Why not both?" 

Electronic stuff is nice, but you know the mechanical knife will be there, if you leave it off, it's your own fault, not the fault of some circuit inside.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #173 on: October 07, 2019, 10:57 PM »

The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.
Hang on, are they saying on a MT 55 if the saw experiences kickback the blade retracts? De-plunges?  That sounds saw stop like.  I wasn't aware of this going on?
Let's not confuse the matter. There is NO active retraction mechanism on MT55. It just has to unplunge in certain amount of time when you let it go. I.e. the spring has to be of certain stiffness. Knifless Bosch and Makita have to comply with the same standard.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #174 on: October 07, 2019, 11:54 PM »
Hang on, are they saying on a MT 55 if the saw experiences kickback the blade retracts? De-plunges?  That sounds saw stop like.  I wasn't aware of this going on?

I think it's best to reflect what @Tom Gensmer stated. He has first hand experience with the Mafell while the rest of us are still plucking the bubble wrap from inside the Systainer.  [smile]

It appears there's no retraction of the blade, but rather just a stoppage of the blade. That works for me...more importantly there appears to be at least 7 years of Mafell MT 55 production in the market place to vouch for its effectiveness or its ineffectiveness.

However, if the later was a reality, I think you'd hear about it on the internet or through law suits.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #175 on: October 08, 2019, 01:04 AM »
The electronics stop the blade and since it is a plunge saw (like all other plunge saws) the blade goes back in the housing if an issue.

This could replace a TS75 except for depth of cut.

Bosch rails are identical to Mafell - just cheaper and blue splinter guard and Bosch branding vs. red and Mafell branding.

Hopefully TSO will come out with an adapter for the rail square to work with Mafell rails. 

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #176 on: October 08, 2019, 03:42 AM »
There is no retraction of the blade with the electronic cut out, well at least not on my MT55 (corded) but, I bought it a fair while back, not sure about the very latest models but, I’m almost certain they feature just the cut out. Which in my opinion, is all that’s needed.

My cordless Makita also has the same, or very similar feature. When using either of these saws, I’ve experienced this, it is literally an instant stop to the motor. Things that trigger it are as you’d expect, like ripping pressure treated timber that’s still wet, when the kerf tightens from warped timber etc, and when plunge cutting too fast.
To anybody thinking about Mafell rails, I would recommend them. When I bought my MT55 I bought a kit that included two rails. Using Festool rails is fine but, using the Mafell rails feels like the saw is almost gliding on air.

As the majority of our mobile and site tools are cordless, I am hankering for the cordless MT55 but, would like a side by side power comparison with my Makita. Bearing in mind the Mafell is 18 volt and the Makita is 36 volt. The Makita is very powerful, so I obviously don’t want to step back in the power dept. I don’t know anybody that has both saws for a comparison though.

My rarely used almost mint conditioned TS55 was sold a while ago, so I have a bit of stake money burning a hole in my pocket.  [wink]

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #177 on: October 08, 2019, 08:58 AM »
As stated above, when the MT-55cc experiences a binding situation the blade just stops (fast!!), but there is no automatic blade retraction.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #178 on: October 08, 2019, 11:45 AM »
The electronics stop the blade and since it is a plunge saw (like all other plunge saws) the blade goes back in the housing if an issue.

This could replace a TS75 except for depth of cut.

Bosch rails are identical to Mafell - just cheaper and blue splinter guard and Bosch branding vs. red and Mafell branding.

Hopefully TSO will come out with an adapter for the rail square to work with Mafell rails.

You don't need a rail square with the Mafell rails as they are self-aligning due to a different rail profile and rail connector design.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #179 on: October 08, 2019, 12:14 PM »
Hopefully TSO will come out with an adapter for the rail square to work with Mafell rails.

You don't need a rail square with the Mafell rails as they are self-aligning due to a different rail profile and rail connector design.
[/quote]

I think ScotF was referring to this item...


Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #180 on: October 08, 2019, 12:37 PM »
Would you consider it a replacement for the 75 as well?  Besides the extra cut capacity would you be losing out on anything?

Thats why I got the mt55 actually, I needed the power of the ts75 for purpleheart and ipe etc- didn't want the added weight. Jeff from timberwolf said the 120v corded mt55 has a 1620w motor- just a bit more than the ts75 iirc. For me, its the ideal saw- power of the ts75 but smaller

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4329
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #181 on: October 08, 2019, 12:40 PM »
If you need 75mm cut capacity how can you consider a saw with only 55mm capacity to be equivalent? Let alone better...
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 12:49 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #182 on: October 08, 2019, 12:43 PM »
I think Cheese meant to include this link:
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/

I have been waiting for a guide rail square as well.  I think the last time I contacted TSO was before Bosch was brought to NA.  Now with that development and the recent Mafell sale, I wonder if it would be feasible for them to entertain development of a Bosch/Mafell compatible GRS?  If you're interested, reach out to them!! 

The only other option is a fellow over in the UK.  The raw cost and shipping back to NA was pricey the last time I checked. 
-Raj

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #183 on: October 08, 2019, 03:47 PM »
A reminder that the MT-55 works just fine with the Festool guide rails. I kept a few around and am using them with my TSO parallel guides and my MT-55cc.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 167
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #184 on: October 08, 2019, 04:54 PM »


Hopefully TSO will come out with an adapter for the rail square to work with Mafell rails.

Taiga Tools (Swedish? makers of the alternative DF500 connectors and a MFT holy jig) have just started doing their own rail squares. Couldn't find them on their main site but they've been showing them on Facebook with a discount code:

https://www.facebook.com/222175511449710/posts/966795033654417/

The FC Rail Square (made in Scotland) fits both Festool compatible rails as well as Bosch / Mafell ones. Either side of the square has different mounts. Not sure they look as easy to connect as the TSO and Taiga ones though:

https://karpenter.co.uk/product/fc-hybrid-rail-square-mark-7/

So there are options for Mafell rails but you'll get financially walloped for importing. I have 2 TSO squares and know just how unpleasant that is :/ But if money were an issue I doubt you'd be buying Mafell ;)




Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #185 on: October 08, 2019, 06:50 PM »
To those who bought MT55 from US dealer:
Does the motor label say 110V 50Hz or 120V 60Hz?
According to diagram all electrical component numbers in UK 110v version and US models are the same.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #186 on: October 08, 2019, 07:40 PM »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #187 on: October 08, 2019, 07:45 PM »
Thank you, Cheese. Mafell bothered to make US specific sticker.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #188 on: October 08, 2019, 08:07 PM »
Thanks @Roachmill !  The FC rail square was the one I was thinking of.  I did not know about the taiga, it looks like just just announced it and the price isn’t bad at around $120 each.  30 euro shipping though.  Free shipping if you order 2 or more (or maybe that’s a mistake in their shopping cart software).  So I put in an order for 2, 1 for me and one for someone here I guess? 
-Raj

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #189 on: October 09, 2019, 01:08 AM »
I have reached out to TSO and keep pushing for a Mafell rail square. Hopefully in the future.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #190 on: October 09, 2019, 09:59 AM »
The way I'm going to approach it is to adjust the MT 55 base to fit the Festool rail/splinter strip and then I can use it along with the TSC, HKC, GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE.

Because everyone fawns over the Mafell rail system, I'm going to purchase the Mafell Aerofix rail to use with the P1 cc and MT 55. 

Offline PeterJJames13

  • Posts: 198
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #191 on: October 09, 2019, 10:11 AM »
@Cheese I'm sure if you call and speak with Timberwolf about the Aerofix they'll suggest the longer vacuum hose for it. I bought it and find it useful for longer cuts. Just wanted to make you aware that it's a big help and worth it (for me, anyway) in case you just order online and don't speak with them. It's a great system!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #192 on: October 09, 2019, 10:20 AM »
@Cheese I'm sure if you call and speak with Timberwolf about the Aerofix they'll suggest the longer vacuum hose for it. I bought it and find it useful for longer cuts. Just wanted to make you aware that it's a big help and worth it (for me, anyway) in case you just order online and don't speak with them. It's a great system!

Thanks for that Peter...I'll give them a call before I order the rail. I talked with them when I ordered the MT 55, nice people to talk with, very friendly, great user experience.  [smile]

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 167
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #193 on: October 14, 2019, 03:49 PM »
The way I'm going to approach it is to adjust the MT 55 base to fit the Festool rail/splinter strip and then I can use it along with the TSC, HKC, GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE.

Because everyone fawns over the Mafell rail system, I'm going to purchase the Mafell Aerofix rail to use with the P1 cc and MT 55.
I finally broke down and ordered a MT55cc. Just the bare unit with no clamps, tracks and wotnot. I have plenty Festool rails and, more importantly for me, lots of add-ons fitting the accessory slot (parallel guides, stops etc.) so staying with the rails was the way to go.

After swapping in a plug-it connector I moved on to getting it snugged up for running on the tracks. Shock of horrors no amount of twiddling the two cams did anything to help the saw slide. You really had to shove it even with them slackened right off. Turned out there was some rough stuff on the base casting that was causing it to bind. One small bit of filing later and it was running 99% as well as the ts55. Phew! I have a Bosch rail and it does run very smoothly on it but no accessory slot makes it a non starter for me. Especially given the other Festool saws.

Very nice saw. Should manage to recoup a good chunk of the cost selling on the ts55. I'll be sad to see the trusty old fella go [for a split second].
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 03:52 PM by Roachmill »

Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #194 on: October 16, 2019, 11:01 AM »
The way I'm going to approach it is to adjust the MT 55 base to fit the Festool rail/splinter strip and then I can use it along with the TSC, HKC, GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE.

Because everyone fawns over the Mafell rail system, I'm going to purchase the Mafell Aerofix rail to use with the P1 cc and MT 55.
I finally broke down and ordered a MT55cc. Just the bare unit with no clamps, tracks and wotnot. I have plenty Festool rails and, more importantly for me, lots of add-ons fitting the accessory slot (parallel guides, stops etc.) so staying with the rails was the way to go.

After swapping in a plug-it connector I moved on to getting it snugged up for running on the tracks. Shock of horrors no amount of twiddling the two cams did anything to help the saw slide. You really had to shove it even with them slackened right off. Turned out there was some rough stuff on the base casting that was causing it to bind. One small bit of filing later and it was running 99% as well as the ts55. Phew! I have a Bosch rail and it does run very smoothly on it but no accessory slot makes it a non starter for me. Especially given the other Festool saws.

Very nice saw. Should manage to recoup a good chunk of the cost selling on the ts55. I'll be sad to see the trusty old fella go [for a split second].

a little wax on the rails and base does wonders

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #195 on: November 21, 2019, 06:55 PM »
Could someone who purchased MT55cc in the US check how the saw idles, especially at low speeds. It has been brought up a while ago (there was a video on YouTube) that the motor speeds up and slows down constantly when not cutting. As if trying to adjust speed and overshoots every time. This does not seem to be the case when under load (cutting). Thanks.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #196 on: November 21, 2019, 07:21 PM »
Mine is 6 years old, but it sounds normal for these saws.  The behavior is a little different than you describe, but they did update the motors a little so that could explain it.  These numbers are fictitious just to give you an idea of the no load behavior.
Start up 5000 rpms
5 secs 2500 rpms (sounds like someone pulled the power)
6-7 seconds 4000 rpms
And it stays the same after that.
-Raj

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #197 on: November 22, 2019, 12:32 PM »

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #198 on: November 22, 2019, 01:16 PM »
So I don't know if it does that , but I can check later tonight and post.  Truthfully I've only ever used the saw at the highest speed. 

My observations above were based on leaving the motor in the highest speed. 
-Raj

Offline skinee

  • Posts: 150
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #199 on: November 23, 2019, 07:42 PM »


Hopefully TSO will come out with an adapter for the rail square to work with Mafell rails.

Taiga Tools (Swedish? makers of the alternative DF500 connectors and a MFT holy jig) have just started doing their own rail squares. Couldn't find them on their main site but they've been showing them on Facebook with a discount code:

https://www.facebook.com/222175511449710/posts/966795033654417/

The FC Rail Square (made in Scotland) fits both Festool compatible rails as well as Bosch / Mafell ones. Either side of the square has different mounts. Not sure they look as easy to connect as the TSO and Taiga ones though:

https://karpenter.co.uk/product/fc-hybrid-rail-square-mark-7/

So there are options for Mafell rails but you'll get financially walloped for importing. I have 2 TSO squares and know just how unpleasant that is :/ But if money were an issue I doubt you'd be buying Mafell ;)


I have just left a review of the Taiga rail square(for mafell/bosch rails) on the mafell users forum,it may be of use to some here:   taiga rail square review
NOTE:
it appears the link is being blocked by this forum(really?).I guess anybody interested will have to search for the site manually and find the relevant post.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 07:48 PM by skinee »

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12086
  • Magnum - My new little boy
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #200 on: November 23, 2019, 08:41 PM »


Hopefully TSO will come out with an adapter for the rail square to work with Mafell rails.

Taiga Tools (Swedish? makers of the alternative DF500 connectors and a MFT holy jig) have just started doing their own rail squares. Couldn't find them on their main site but they've been showing them on Facebook with a discount code:

https://www.facebook.com/222175511449710/posts/966795033654417/

The FC Rail Square (made in Scotland) fits both Festool compatible rails as well as Bosch / Mafell ones. Either side of the square has different mounts. Not sure they look as easy to connect as the TSO and Taiga ones though:

https://karpenter.co.uk/product/fc-hybrid-rail-square-mark-7/

So there are options for Mafell rails but you'll get financially walloped for importing. I have 2 TSO squares and know just how unpleasant that is :/ But if money were an issue I doubt you'd be buying Mafell ;)


I have just left a review of the Taiga rail square(for mafell/bosch rails) on the mafell users forum,it may be of use to some here:   taiga rail square review
NOTE:
it appears the link is being blocked by this forum(really?).I guess anybody interested will have to search for the site manually and find the relevant post.

Really? Yes the link is blocked.  Why would one manufaturer’s forum allow itself to be a gateway to a competitor is the answer.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 08:53 PM by Peter Halle »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #201 on: November 23, 2019, 10:29 PM »

So @Svar  I fired up the MT 55 that I purchased in August and after pulling the trigger, it immediately goes to max rpm,then after about 1-2 seconds, it lowers its speed by about 1000 rpm and then remains at that speed.

Having worked on cars & motorcycles for the last almost 60 years... I’m pretty confident with the 1000 rpm conjecture. The MT speed control wheel was at full speed FWIW.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #202 on: November 23, 2019, 10:34 PM »
The MT speed control wheel was at full speed FWIW.
Thanks. What does it do at lower speed settings?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6641
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #203 on: November 23, 2019, 10:49 PM »
Thanks. What does it do at lower speed settings?

Well that’s certainly interesting.

On 1&2 it’s got that quirky Festool sound.

On 3 it ramps up, then ramps down and then ramps up again like it’s trying to find home.

On 4, 5 & 6 it’s like I described earlier.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2690
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #204 on: November 24, 2019, 12:29 AM »
It is the electronics - TT even put info in the order explaining it. My KSS80 also pulses at lower speed. It is how it is designed.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #205 on: November 24, 2019, 01:21 AM »
It is the electronics - TT even put info in the order explaining it. My KSS80 also pulses at lower speed. It is how it is designed.
Sure, but what's irritating is inconsistence. This issue has been raised on other forums and YouTube. Some MT55s pulse on all speeds, others only on low, yet some always run steady. Same goes for K85.
When identical machines, regardless what they are, all run differently it's an indication of poor design or poor quality control.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 01:29 AM by Svar »

Offline skinee

  • Posts: 150
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #206 on: November 24, 2019, 06:41 AM »


Really? Yes the link is blocked.  Why would one manufaturer’s forum allow itself to be a gateway to a competitor is the answer.
[/quote]

well the link was to a review of tools mentioned in a post on this forum that may be of interest to those here who still use the old 1st generation rail system, as both taiga and the fc rail squares have models to fit those 1st generation rails members here might be interested.as festool do not offer rail squares the competition argument does not arise,i was not trying to promote either the mafell forum or any mafell products,i believe members here are well aware of both and are smart enough to make there own choices without attempts at censorship.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #207 on: November 24, 2019, 10:08 AM »
Let’s not debate this.  It’s a Festool forum maintained by Festool.  They could delete threads like this if they became problematic in any way (which I would very much not like to see).
-Raj

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 41
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #208 on: November 24, 2019, 04:02 PM »
It is the electronics - TT even put info in the order explaining it. My KSS80 also pulses at lower speed. It is how it is designed.
Sure, but what's irritating is inconsistence. This issue has been raised on other forums and YouTube. Some MT55s pulse on all speeds, others only on low, yet some always run steady. Same goes for K85.
When identical machines, regardless what they are, all run differently it's an indication of poor design or poor quality control.

Yes, shocking design and quality control. Avoid. [smile]

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 866
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #209 on: November 24, 2019, 09:04 PM »
I have (2) MT55cc and an MF26cc and all three pulse. I’ve never given it’s a minutes thought as they all cut as expected. All 3 were bought over 6 months apart.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #210 on: November 25, 2019, 03:06 AM »
I believe the pulsing is because there is no load, and the motor is trying to work out what it’s cutting, and should stabilise quickly under load. It’s almost certainly the anti kick back, and torque checking electronics doing it’s thing.
If a saw speed fluctuates under load, that’s a different matter.

Carry on!  [big grin] [wink]

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.