Author Topic: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools (Read 12007 times)

lshah72414 · « **on:** July 11, 2019, 10:38 AM »

Don't know if any one is interested being this is a Festool site, but Timberwolf tools is having a Mafell sale on select items until September 2019. P1cc jig saw, Mt 55 cc track saw corded, Mt55 bl cordless, and Mafell DDF40 duo doweler, mafell KSS 40 18 mbl cordless complete system.
I believe some of the prices are a lot cheaper than you can get from overseas.

RustE · « **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2019, 11:38 AM »

Is this an e-mail special? The DDF 40 shows as $999 with no mention of being a promotional or sale price.

lshah72414 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2019, 12:07 PM »

Yes, e-mail special. Not sure what price on duo doweler was, because I don't follow it.
P1cc :525.00
mt 55cc: 615.00
mt55 18m bL: 599.00
kss 40 complete system: 999.00
ddf 40 duo doweler : 999.00

I followed all except ddf 40, as I have festool already, and all are significantly lower than normal Mafell prices.
Kss 40 complete was 1230.00 yesterday. to bring it over from England, this(999.00) is still a lower price.

RKA · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2019, 12:20 PM »

The website doesn't indicate it's a sale price, but the prices have been updated. Some might be good deals, but I looked at the cordless MT55 and once you add the batteries, charger and track, it skyrocketed. The corded MT55 is reasonable and you can get a bosch track elsewhere.

jobsworth · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2019, 12:53 PM »

Looks like the cost of a Erica 85 went up

RustE · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2019, 02:30 PM »

Quote from: lshah72414 on July 11, 2019, 12:07 PM

Yes, e-mail special. Not sure what price on duo doweler was, because I don't follow it.
P1cc :525.00
...
ddf 40 duo doweler : 999.00
...

Thanks for the info.

According to the cached Google pages, the prices a few days ago were:
P1cc = $795
DDF 40 = $1,296

Looks like the current promotional prices will have shipping charges and sales tax added.

Cheese · « **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2019, 02:52 PM »

That’s a good price on the P1 cc, as I paid $765 from Toolnut in 2017.

Would love to pull the pin on the cordless MT55. However as Raj noted, throw in 2 batteries, a charger, a guide rail & 2 clamps and you’re pushing $1500.

My TSC suddenly seems like a good deal

ear3 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2019, 03:12 PM »

That's a great price on the jigsaw. I'm tempted -- but I've kind of already committed my tool budget to the Nova Drill Press.

lshah72414 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2019, 03:27 PM »

@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00. Get two metabo 8.0 Ah batteries plus charger for 269.00 from ohio power tools. Mafell works on festool rails, and if you have rails , I'm sure you have clamps. 868.00 total plus shipping. Metabo makes mafell batteries. You could even get one 4.0Ah plus one 8.0 Ah plus charger for even less.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2019, 09:57 PM »

Wonder how the power of the 18 volt MT55 18M bl compares to the 36 volt TSC?

The Mafell has some nice features but would it be a much more refined plunging HKC or a slightly better but weaker TSC. Maybe the thin kerf blade neutralizes the power supply difference?

Also, is it certain that the 8 amp Metabo battery fits the MT55 18M bl?

Cheese · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2019, 10:25 PM »

Quote from: lshah72414 on July 11, 2019, 03:27 PM

@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00.

Thanks 🙏 for that info...I was stunned at the prices for the Mafell batteries, something like $265 each...the charger was reasonable at $80+. You’re right I could use Festool rails but I’ve always read that Mafell rails are the creme de la creme of guide rails. Besides my P1 cc needs something to ride on. And to further complicate matters, I’d really like to own the AeroFix rail for cutting in HVAC vents.

Cheese · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2019, 10:45 PM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on July 11, 2019, 09:57 PM

Wonder how the power of the 18 volt MT55 18M bl compares to the 36 volt TSC?

Michael, according to Mafell pundits, the power of the saw is somewhere between the TS 55 and the TS 75. I’d consider that’s a very comfortable hammock to be settled in.

So midlin power but minimal weight. That’s what intrigues me. For my needs a 75 is overkill, if I need that much poop, I’d enlist the 8” Milwaukee worm gear or it’s 10” side winder cousin.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2019, 11:17 PM »

That dual doweller has been on my list. What is interesting is they just got the first batch of 110V units in, so really no one has bought them at the previous price. I'm assuming all pre-orders will get the current price.

If I didn't have my track saw, I think the mt55 would be happening for me. But at this point I have my TS-55 and rails, so no reason to change at this time.

Far as the price of the Erika 85, it hasn't changed, $4050 is the same as it was before this.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2019, 11:32 PM »

Quote from: DeformedTree on July 11, 2019, 11:17 PM

That dual doweller has been on my list. What is interesting is they just got the first batch of 110V units in, so really no one has bought them at the previous price. I'm assuming all pre-orders will get the current price.

If I didn't have my track saw, I think the mt55 would be happening for me. But at this point I have my TS-55 and rails, so no reason to change at this time.

Far as the price of the Erika 85, it hasn't changed, $4050 is the same as it was before this.

Since the posted price is colored red like other sale items maybe this is fortelling a price increase?

Noticed the lower voltage windings on the Duo cost about $150 more...

Cheese · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2019, 11:58 PM »

Quote from: DeformedTree on July 11, 2019, 11:17 PM

Far as the price of the Erika 85, it hasn't changed, $4050 is the same as it was before this.

Considering the pricing of some of their other tools, the Erika seems like a steal...I'm serious.

SouthRider · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2019, 09:32 AM »

The email call it a "summer sale" with prices good through September.

RustE · « **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2019, 12:04 PM »

Quote from: SouthRider on July 12, 2019, 09:32 AM

The email call it a "summer sale" with prices good through September.

Well, up here in Ohio the "summer" finally arrived a few weeks ago. So I'm good with it staying around for a bit.

LaVike · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2019, 07:25 PM »

Quote from: lshah72414 on July 11, 2019, 03:27 PM

@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00. Get two metabo 8.0 Ah batteries plus charger for 269.00 from ohio power tools. Mafell works on festool rails, and if you have rails , I'm sure you have clamps. 868.00 total plus shipping. Metabo makes mafell batteries. You could even get one 4.0Ah plus one 8.0 Ah plus charger for even less.

Longtime lurker here and seeing this topic made me sign up for the FOG. So, this is my first post.

Long story short, I've been wanting to get back into woodworking after taking a 40+ year break. The last time being in woodshop class in High School.

My brother gave me a great gift of an MFT/3 because of some things I'd done for him. I don't have a lot of room in my garage and he was hoping to help get me into woodworking. While the MFT/3 is a great gift, there is also the curse of getting "green in my blood". So, I'm in this thread asking for advise/recommendations.

I've been looking at getting a TS55. That cost is $590 plus tax & shipping. From looking at Timberwolf's website, the Mafell equivalent is the MT55 and that is $615 plus shipping (no tax in my state). So I can probably pickup the MT55 cheaper than getting the TS55 even with Amazon's Prime shipping if I were to go a cheap route like Amazon.

My advise request is should I go with the MT55 or are there other Festool advantages or accessories that make the TS55 worthwhile? Also, I quoted the above because of the option for cordless. Right now I think I'll be doing most of my work in a garage and have only thought I would need a corded saw but is there a compelling reason to go cordless?

As far as what I'm hoping to make with this stuff, my ultimate goal is to build a replica of a dry sink/hutch that my parents have. I'd probably be making some simpler/smaller stuff to start out. I'm sure other stuff would come up but that is the big target right now.

Thanks!

ScotF · « **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2019, 07:36 PM »

Quote from: LaVike on July 12, 2019, 07:25 PM

Quote from: lshah72414 on July 11, 2019, 03:27 PM
@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00. Get two metabo 8.0 Ah batteries plus charger for 269.00 from ohio power tools. Mafell works on festool rails, and if you have rails , I'm sure you have clamps. 868.00 total plus shipping. Metabo makes mafell batteries. You could even get one 4.0Ah plus one 8.0 Ah plus charger for even less.

Longtime lurker here and seeing this topic made me sign up for the FOG. So, this is my first post.

Long story short, I've been wanting to get back into woodworking after taking a 40+ year break. The last time being in woodshop class in High School.

My brother gave me a great gift of an MFT/3 because of some things I'd done for him. I don't have a lot of room in my garage and he was hoping to help get me into woodworking. While the MFT/3 is a great gift, there is also the curse of getting "green in my blood". So, I'm in this thread asking for advise/recommendations.

I've been looking at getting a TS55. That cost is $590 plus tax & shipping. From looking at Timberwolf's website, the Mafell equivalent is the MT55 and that is $615 plus shipping (no tax in my state). So I can probably pickup the MT55 cheaper than getting the TS55 even with Amazon's Prime shipping if I were to go a cheap route like Amazon.

My advise request is should I go with the MT55 or are there other Festool advantages or accessories that make the TS55 worthwhile? Also, I quoted the above because of the option for cordless. Right now I think I'll be doing most of my work in a garage and have only thought I would need a corded saw but is there a compelling reason to go cordless?

As far as what I'm hoping to make with this stuff, my ultimate goal is to build a replica of a dry sink/hutch that my parents have. I'd probably be making some simpler/smaller stuff to start out. I'm sure other stuff would come up but that is the big target right now.

Thanks!

Cordless TS55 is awesome - full power and convenience of no cords or hoses and you can pick one up for a discount at some dealers with the older non-Bluetooth batteries. I would opt for the MT55 over a corded TS55 because of power and if you are going to invest in one over the other and need rails, the MT55 works with both FT rails and the Mafell rails. More overall accessories available for Festool, but Mafell covers most of what you need and the advantages of it outweigh many other shortcomings. The prices on Mafell right now are crazy good - for the 5 tools that they have on sale - so if you are inclined to go that route, now is the time.

LaVike · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2019, 11:47 AM »

ScotF - thank you very much! I think I'll be going the MT55cc route.

rvieceli · « **Reply #20 on:** July 16, 2019, 01:51 PM »

gee. a page of posts and no link? Here you go:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell

JimH2 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2019, 02:26 PM »

Quote from: lshah72414 on July 11, 2019, 03:27 PM

@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00. Get two metabo 8.0 Ah batteries plus charger for 269.00 from ohio power tools. Mafell works on festool rails, and if you have rails , I'm sure you have clamps. 868.00 total plus shipping. Metabo makes mafell batteries. You could even get one 4.0Ah plus one 8.0 Ah plus charger for even less.

Even if the 8.0 amp batteries are too big I think it ships with 5.0 amp (or possibly 5.2) so those will work. It is great that Metabo and others creating some type of battery agreement between manufacturers. I realize there may be cases where customized battery sizes are better, but for larger tools I don't think it makes a difference. Other than Mafell and Metabo I don't know of other manufacturers that sell tools in the US.

JimH2 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2019, 02:28 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on July 11, 2019, 10:25 PM

Quote from: lshah72414 on July 11, 2019, 03:27 PM
@ cheese. You can buy bare tool for 599.00.

Thanks 🙏 for that info...I was stunned at the prices for the Mafell batteries, something like $265 each...the charger was reasonable at $80+. You’re right I could use Festool rails but I’ve always read that Mafell rails are the creme de la creme of guide rails. Besides my P1 cc needs something to ride on. And to further complicate matters, I’d really like to own the AeroFix rail for cutting in HVAC vents.

The rails are definitely better and it is a compromise to not use the FT ones instead unless you already own them.

JimH2 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 16, 2019, 02:29 PM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on July 11, 2019, 11:32 PM

Since the posted price is colored red like other sale items maybe this is fortelling a price increase?

Noticed the lower voltage windings on the Duo cost about $150 more...

Help me, and possibly others, out with the significance of the windings.

Cheese · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2019, 02:47 PM »

Quote from: JimH2 on July 16, 2019, 02:29 PM

Help me, and possibly others, out with the significance of the windings.

I think Michael was just noting that the 120 volt version is more expensive.

Blues · « **Reply #25 on:** July 28, 2019, 04:43 PM »

Just wanted to share ..

I spoke to Jeff @ Timberwolf. Sale is on till end of Sept.
https://www.timberwolftools.com/blog/post/making-mafell-products-more-affordable-for-carpenters-who-always-wanted-one/

"Mafell has agreed to offer the following SUMMER SALE PRICES to our customers starting now through September 2019".

Picked up their Jig Saw the P1CC. So many people swear by it. Will provide a feedback after I get it.

Blues · « **Reply #26 on:** July 28, 2019, 04:49 PM »

.. And BTW the MT55cc has been recently upgraded to a "Powerful 13.5 amp CUprex Compact motor" - which makes it more powerful than the TS75 (?? ). I believe there is a piece of plastic that can be removed and it can ride on the Festool Track. Cutting depth is 2", which I thought is plenty! And these can also be used on the Bosch track which are 50% cheaper than the Mafell tack.

Thoughts??

broseiden · « **Reply #27 on:** July 28, 2019, 07:18 PM »

I ordered a P1CC and MT55CC. I didnt know their track saw was updated with a more powerful motor, but lack of power is one issue that occasionally arises with my TS55, so I'm looking forward to trying it out. Same with quicker blade changes, better tracks, and bevel settings. The TS55 allows me to do a lot of things I previously couldn't, and I prefer it to the Makita and Dewalt, but from reviews I expect the Mafell will suit me a bit better. We'll see!

JD2720 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 28, 2019, 08:01 PM »

Am I wrong, does the Mafell MT55cc not have a riving knife like the Festool TS55? That is a deal breaker for me if it does not.

Lincoln · « **Reply #29 on:** July 28, 2019, 08:19 PM »

PRESS RELEASE
Safer sawing without a riving knife

MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw with kick-back protection

In its new MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw, MAFELL has combined the benefits of enhanced active safety, improved handling and enhanced cut quality – without a riving knife. According to the manufacturer, active kick-back protection averts the danger of recoil when the blade enters the work more effectively than a riving knife. In addition, design measures introduced alongside standard EN 60745-2-5, which entered force in 2007, have increased the passive safety of saws that dispense with a riving knife.

Especially when entering the workpiece, the blade of conventional plunge-cut saws can easily jam and thus cause a kick-back. The MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw significantly reduces the likelihood of this effect occurring. Thanks to the CUprex Compact motor driving the sawblade at a maximum of 6,200 rpm, the cutting speed is 20 per cent higher than usual. The teeth of the carbide-tipped sawblade thus remove less stock per revolution, which appreciably reduces the risk of jamming.

The probability of a kick-back arising from sawblade jamming is much lower while sawing is in progress as well. The high speed enables the blade to cut itself free more effectively. Additional safety is afforded by the automatic isolation of the power supply to the motor if the blade jams.

"The active kick-back protection provided by the high speed and automatic power supply interruption offers greater safety than a riving knife, which does not protect against the kick-back effect when the blade enters the work and can be a nuisance for the tradesman," comments Ralf Kohler, head of sales and marketing at MAFELL. Josef Riederer, a tradesman of Unterneuhausen, vindicates the manager's claim, "I feel safe when working with the MT 55 cc."

The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.

Dispensing with a riving knife makes the saw much easier to use. When changing the sawblade, for example, it is no longer necessary to change the riving knife according to the blade thickness and adjust it to suit the blade diameter. This not only accelerates the blade changing operation, but also reduces the workload when working with a variety of materials. Tradesmen are also delighted that the absence of a riving knife protects sensitive surfaces against the risk of scratch marks.

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #30 on:** July 28, 2019, 08:46 PM »

With regards to the MT55 and batteries, see the KSS40 18M package deal for $999. It comes with 2 batteries, a charger, and the Flexi-rail for $185 more than the bare tool without the Flexi-rail.

I figure that if you want to go cordless, get the KSS40 18M package and the MT55 cordless. That's how I'd do it if I had the dough. Maybe I'll do it even though I don't have it.

As far as the MT55 vs. the TS 55 - I have both. I don't touch the TS55 any longer. A cordless MT55 would be even better!
In my opinion, the MT55 with the dust bag extracts the dust as well as the TS55 and the extractor.

The P1CC is terrific! The price of it, and the MT55 are a steal in comparison to regular Mafell prices.

Although Festool has more accessories, many of those accessories are to make up for shortcomings within the Festool system. Festool is great at nickel-diming you to death, either through their own accessories or through aftermarket ones. (Notice that no other tool brand has a cottage industry of accessory makers building accessories to overcome product shortcomings.)

The Mafell stuff just works. No accessories needed. I may sell all my Festool stuff and replace it with Mafell. Who needs all that extra stuff when you can have a tool that just works as intended?

Cheese · « **Reply #31 on:** July 29, 2019, 02:14 AM »

As far as kick back goes, both my TS & TSC 55 have done so on probably a half dozen occasions. Not a big deal but I was quite surprised given the fact that the riving knife is so highly applauded.

So my take-away is the riving knife is helpful 50% of the time but another aid would be more helpful the other 50%. I think the increased blade speed of the Mafell may be the answer.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #32 on:** July 29, 2019, 02:18 AM »

@Kodi Crescent

I agree with most of what your post says. It’s been my belief for many many years, the Mafell make the best power tools money can buy but, at probably the highest price tag.
The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.

If I just worked on my own, I would have kitted myself out with Mafell years ago but, I don’t. So the tools I buy are used professionally and by various people I employ. So financially not viable, although I own a few Mafell tools now but, they are for my personal use.

The main differences between Festool and Mafell apart from price, are as you say, Mafell do not have as many accessories, nor do they need them.
The other thing to bear in mind is Mafell is designed primarily with the professional user in mind.
Festool seem to cater for all kinds, professional, hobbyist, and DIY.
Lamello although only making a limited range of tools, are also very much a premium brand, with a price tag to match, and aimed more at professional use.

I often wonder if expensive tools are really worth their price, then get to use or buy that tool, and realise they probably are. Then you see another tool that cost a third of the price but, still does the job?
I have been mulling over buying an Erika 85 for quite some time, as in my opinion it’s the best portable table saw out there, with a big price. I am wondering if I could get similar precision with a cheaper saw, and from what I’ve seen recently, I could.

So I guess it’s down to what somebody, professional, hobbyist, DIY or otherwise is willing to pay?

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #33 on:** July 29, 2019, 10:24 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on July 29, 2019, 02:14 AM

As far as kick back goes, both my TS & TSC 55 have done so on probably a half dozen occasions. Not a big deal but I was quite surprised given the fact that the riving knife is so highly applauded.

So my take-away is the riving knife is helpful 50% of the time but another aid would be more helpful the other 50%. I think the increased blade speed of the Mafell may be the answer.

I had my MT55 kickback once. Cut a nice chunk out of the brand new rail I was using. I cut that part off and now have a shorter rail.

I was cutting a piece of material where there was a large waste piece overhanging the edge of the workbench, unsupported. Nearing the end of the cut, the unsupported portion twisted and closed the kerf, grabbing the blade. The saw jumped off the track, slicing the track. I learned not to do that again. Now I support the off cut or place shims behind the saw while cutting. I haven't had it happen again.

Cheese · « **Reply #34 on:** July 29, 2019, 10:34 AM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on July 29, 2019, 02:18 AM

The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.

That's certainly been my experience with the P1 cc. Way too many "little touches" to discuss here lest I start to sound like an infomercial. They even go to lengths to arrange the Systainer so that optional items will still fit inside the Sys 1.

I'll post a photo later

RKA · « **Reply #35 on:** July 29, 2019, 10:39 AM »

In terms of the nickel and diming and the aftermarket accessories, I think that perception may be a little colored. If you look at it the other way, Mafell may give you a circle cutting jig but the price of the saw is higher. Festool offers it as an added option but the price of the saw is lower. If you don't need it, you have an option to omit with Festool.

Regarding the aftermarket accessories, first, Festool offers a broader variety of tools and other workshop items than Mafell. Their larger presence and service in the US also appeal to a larger audience. It's that audience I believe encourages the cottage industry of aftermarket accessories, not necessarily some inherent weakness. In some instances, Mafell would benefit from these as well, but for all purposes, there aren't enough potential users of the platform to justify the development of the products. Take an 90 degree rail square such as that offered by TSO. Mafell users would benefit from it just as much as Festool users. It's not an inherent weakness in the tool, just a different way to use it.

One more point regarding the KSS40 batteries. It seems they are 94 watt hour batteries vs. 99 watt hour batteries with the MT55 kit. Obviously the capacity difference is marginal, however, there may be other changes to the battery, such as higher discharge rates, that make one battery more suitable for the MT55. I don't know, I just noticed that difference when scrutinizing the pricing differences, but since I'm not in the market for either one, I didn't dig deeper. If you're thinking about going down this road it might be worth asking a few more questions before taking the leap.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #36 on:** July 29, 2019, 03:10 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on July 29, 2019, 10:34 AM

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on July 29, 2019, 02:18 AM

The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.

That's certainly been my experience with the P1 cc. Way too many "little touches" to discuss here lest I start to sound like an infomercial. They even go to lengths to arrange the Systainer so that optional items will still fit inside the Sys 1.

I'll post a photo later

Yeah I know exactly what you’re saying Cheese, they seem to leave no stone unturned with development and design. My MT55 has some great touches, one that comes to mind is the bevel lock, it only has one lock at the front. Well it does have front and rear but, the rear is operated simultaneously with the front.

If money was no object, my workshop would be Mafell and Lamello apart from the large machinery.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #37 on:** July 29, 2019, 05:49 PM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on July 28, 2019, 08:46 PM

With regards to the MT55 and batteries, see the KSS40 18M package deal for $999. It comes with 2 batteries, a charger, and the Flexi-rail for $185 more than the bare tool without the Flexi-rail.

I figure that if you want to go cordless, get the KSS40 18M package and the MT55 cordless. That's how I'd do it if I had the dough. Maybe I'll do it even though I don't have it.

As far as the MT55 vs. the TS 55 - I have both. I don't touch the TS55 any longer. A cordless MT55 would be even better!
In my opinion, the MT55 with the dust bag extracts the dust as well as the TS55 and the extractor.

The P1CC is terrific! The price of it, and the MT55 are a steal in comparison to regular Mafell prices.

Although Festool has more accessories, many of those accessories are to make up for shortcomings within the Festool system. Festool is great at nickel-diming you to death, either through their own accessories or through aftermarket ones. (Notice that no other tool brand has a cottage industry of accessory makers building accessories to overcome product shortcomings.)

The Mafell stuff just works. No accessories needed. I may sell all my Festool stuff and replace it with Mafell. Who needs all that extra stuff when you can have a tool that just works as intended?

I don’t think the KSS 40 package includes the Flexi-rail. It’s shown in the box but not included in the list. Hope I’m wrong...

The batteries are the previous generation 5.2Ah. The new LiHD batteries are 5.4Ah.

Blues · « **Reply #38 on:** July 29, 2019, 06:27 PM »

The P1CC has arrived today. Yet to open the box.

Even though I have the TS75 (never liked the 55), I am tempted to get the MT55 with chord (more power) and I don't have to deal with battery and my existing vac will turn on without stupid Bluetooth. Might just end up selling the TS75 (I do lose 3/4" cut capacity. I think I can live with that). It's about 3 lbs lighter. As you all mention, there are so many small design features that make it desirable. The real reason I am thinking about it is they increased the capacity 13.5A motor!

I believe the battery powered tools certainly have their place for example the impact or drill. But I am on the fence when it comes to a track saw!! I could be wrong but the kss40 with the battery makes sense. You could be on the roof or laying floors and you have the tool right there to make the cut with no dust. Its small and easy to imagine the use as a portable tool. Not so much the MT55 18M.

My slide down the Festool slippery slope was the domino (no regrets there). With Mafell its the P1CC. I think in the end its going to be a mixture of tools that makes the most sense (not brand loyal). I think this is where platform and marketing comes into play. Let's see how it goes.

My need is simple: The darn tool should work (apparently I heard Jeff say that the brushes on the Mafell tools last 25yrs! MT55 is not brushless). The ergonomics of design and convenience matters a lot. When you amortize the cost of the tool over the lifespan - its very marginal (as the saying goes "I am not rich enough to buy cheap"), I'd rather drive a Merc from day 1 knowing that in 20 yrs its cheaper to drive the Merc than a Corolla?

In the end what we do with the tool is more important than the tool itself

.

lshah72414 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 29, 2019, 06:52 PM »

To be clear, The Kss 40 package does come with the flexi rail. I bought one. So far in its limited use I like it alot.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #40 on:** July 29, 2019, 08:38 PM »

Found this at Timberwolf, don’t recall if it’s been mentioned.

QUESTION: What if I recently purchased one of these products at a higher price?

ANSWER: If (1) you purchased one of these five tools in 2019 at a higher price, and (2) you now go ahead and purchase another new Mafell tool by the end of September 2019: Timberwolf Tools will give you $150 off your order. Simply write "$150 Off" in the Order Comments when placing your next online order. Imagine that your next purchase is also one of these five tools, and you will see hundreds of dollars in savings! Call us at 1-800-869-4169 if you have any questions about this promotion and we will build a special quote for you.

thudchkr · « **Reply #41 on:** July 29, 2019, 10:08 PM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on July 29, 2019, 08:38 PM

Found this at Timberwolf, don’t recall if it’s been mentioned.

QUESTION: What if I recently purchased one of these products at a higher price?

ANSWER: If (1) you purchased one of these five tools in 2019 at a higher price, and (2) you now go ahead and purchase another new Mafell tool by the end of September 2019: Timberwolf Tools will give you $150 off your order. Simply write "$150 Off" in the Order Comments when placing your next online order. Imagine that your next purchase is also one of these five tools, and you will see hundreds of dollars in savings! Call us at 1-800-869-4169 if you have any questions about this promotion and we will build a special quote for you.

This applied to me. I purchased the MT55 earlier this year and took this opportunity to pick up the P1 CC. Got an additional $150 on my order. Definitely nice to get that retroactive discount.

ScotF · « **Reply #42 on:** July 30, 2019, 12:18 AM »

I have been a long time Mafell user - I will sum it up this way - Mafell's tools are an everything you need, nothing you don't kind of philosophy. They have limited accessories, but they are becoming more widespread. There are a few places that offer rails squares now and one of those companies now has parallel guides. As these tools become more popular, I am sure that there will be more. I am fortunate to have both Mafell and Festool and have choices. Both companies make great tools and compliment each other nicely. I will be picking up a couple of new tools with this sale before it ends and take advantage of these crazy discounts. Having competitive choices are a very good thing.

PeterJJames13 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 30, 2019, 07:52 AM »

Quote from: thudchkr on July 29, 2019, 10:08 PM

Quote from: Michael Kellough on July 29, 2019, 08:38 PM
Found this at Timberwolf, don’t recall if it’s been mentioned.

QUESTION: What if I recently purchased one of these products at a higher price?

ANSWER: If (1) you purchased one of these five tools in 2019 at a higher price, and (2) you now go ahead and purchase another new Mafell tool by the end of September 2019: Timberwolf Tools will give you $150 off your order. Simply write "$150 Off" in the Order Comments when placing your next online order. Imagine that your next purchase is also one of these five tools, and you will see hundreds of dollars in savings! Call us at 1-800-869-4169 if you have any questions about this promotion and we will build a special quote for you.

This applied to me. I purchased the MT55 earlier this year and took this opportunity to pick up the P1 CC. Got an additional $150 on my order. Definitely nice to get that retroactive discount.

Same here, except I got the DDF40. Can't wait to use it!

JimH2 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 30, 2019, 11:55 AM »

Quote from: PeterJJames13 on July 30, 2019, 07:52 AM

Same here, except I got the DDF40. Can't wait to use it!

You won't be disappointed at what it can. Takes some time to figure out the functionality. Manual is written like the Festool ones so don't expect much.

PeterJJames13 · « **Reply #45 on:** July 30, 2019, 12:57 PM »

Awesome - I think I'm going to get my scraps together and dive in this weekend. Really curious as to how well it aligns and how to plunge vs a domino.

Cheese · « **Reply #46 on:** July 30, 2019, 02:27 PM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on July 29, 2019, 03:10 PM

Yeah I know exactly what you’re saying Cheese, they seem to leave no stone unturned with development and design. My MT55 has some great touches, one that comes to mind is the bevel lock, it only has one lock at the front. Well it does have front and rear but, the rear is operated simultaneously with the front.

Here's a great example, even the Systainer 1 insert is looked at as it's arranged in 4 levels.
Level 1 holds the parallel fence, it's that red piece of plastic on the LH side that's connected to the steel bar.
Level 2 holds the optional blade assortment pack

Level 3 holds the optional tilting base
Level 4 holds the jigsaw and its cord

Because of the layered packaging approach, I can also keep:
9 packages of Festool wood blades
1 package of Festool wavy blades
4 packages of Milwaukee metal blades
A 10" long Bosch blade
An owners manual

All in a SYS 1

ScotF · « **Reply #47 on:** July 31, 2019, 12:11 AM »

My set up is the same as @Cheese. But I also have a couple of the wooden screw clamps for Mafell/Bosch rails in mine too - it is a well organized Systainer.

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #48 on:** July 31, 2019, 06:49 AM »

Quote from: RKA on July 29, 2019, 10:39 AM

In terms of the nickel and diming and the aftermarket accessories, I think that perception may be a little colored. If you look at it the other way, Mafell may give you a circle cutting jig but the price of the saw is higher. Festool offers it as an added option but the price of the saw is lower. If you don't need it, you have an option to omit with Festool.

Regarding the aftermarket accessories, first, Festool offers a broader variety of tools and other workshop items than Mafell. Their larger presence and service in the US also appeal to a larger audience. It's that audience I believe encourages the cottage industry of aftermarket accessories, not necessarily some inherent weakness. In some instances, Mafell would benefit from these as well, but for all purposes, there aren't enough potential users of the platform to justify the development of the products. Take an 90 degree rail square such as that offered by TSO. Mafell users would benefit from it just as much as Festool users. It's not an inherent weakness in the tool, just a different way to use it.

One more point regarding the KSS40 batteries. It seems they are 94 watt hour batteries vs. 99 watt hour batteries with the MT55 kit. Obviously the capacity difference is marginal, however, there may be other changes to the battery, such as higher discharge rates, that make one battery more suitable for the MT55. I don't know, I just noticed that difference when scrutinizing the pricing differences, but since I'm not in the market for either one, I didn't dig deeper. If you're thinking about going down this road it might be worth asking a few more questions before taking the leap.

I called Timberwolf regarding the KSS40 batteries. They aren't the same as what you'd get with the MT55. They'll work, but other battery types will work better.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the Festool nickel-dining you to death. I think with Festool you have to spend a lot of time building jigs to realize some capability or overcome some shortcoming. I'm not experiencing that with the Mafell, at least not yet.

blaszcsj · « **Reply #49 on:** July 31, 2019, 12:10 PM »

I bit the bullet on a P1cc today after I sold my carvex. I hope it lives up to the hype, difficult to purchase an expensive tool without laying my hands on it first.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #50 on:** July 31, 2019, 03:10 PM »

@Cheese yes, not too shabby at all, it really is an amazing, and well thought out way, of using quite a limited amount of space. They make it look so easy too.
If you saw all the contents of the Systainer sitting on a bench top, it would be hard to accept that it would all fit in, and so neatly too.

What are your thoughts on the P1, I know about five or six owners that all say they really are the best?

ScotF · « **Reply #51 on:** July 31, 2019, 08:22 PM »

The P1CC is a dream saw - it really does work as well as others say and I have owned/currently own many of the top models. I would buy a new one if something happened to mine - plenty smooth and powerful and dead-nuts square. The base has a couple of positions to get close to the front of the foot and you can reverse the blade and cut backwards since there are no guides or rollers.

The only thing not on this saw is a light - but that is not a huge deal to me.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #52 on:** August 01, 2019, 02:29 AM »

@ScotF The lack of illumination at the cutting point, is the only negative comment I’ve ever heard about the saw.
From what I’ve seen, they really are the best.

Cheese · « **Reply #53 on:** August 01, 2019, 12:35 PM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on July 31, 2019, 03:10 PM

What are your thoughts on the P1, I know about five or six owners that all say they really are the best?

It's a slick saw, my only complaint is the lack of on-board LEDs.

I recently used it for putting a full radius on the end of 2 x 4 cedar studs. In that application, you're cutting such a tight radius that you're basically planting the saw in one position and then pivoting the saw around that position. Neither my Trion or Carvex could handle the cut without the blade wandering way off line. The P1 cc completed the cut perfectly and the edge was also square. The cut was done using a Festool wood blade and not the "double wide" Mafell blade.

Here's a recent shot of a radius cut on a 5/4" walnut cutting board. Again using a standard Mafell blade.

Also worth noting is the smoothness of the cut. You can just barely see the vertical blade marks.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #54 on:** August 01, 2019, 03:47 PM »

That is amazing for a jig saw, even a top notch one. The other thing that fascinates me with the saw, is how vertical they cut, and don’t wander like many other makes of jig saws do.

I guess the lack of LED is a niggle, especially for me, a few years back, not a problem but, my eyes need all the extra help now. It wouldn’t stop me buying one though.
Not sure there’s anything close to one but, I guess the Carvex is in second place but, by a fair margin (in my opinion)
To be fair though, I am unashamedly a fan of Mafell.

Roachmill · « **Reply #55 on:** August 01, 2019, 04:57 PM »

Ordered one today and you lot are most certainly to blame. So, thanks, I guess

I started with *blushes* Black & Decker, then DeWalt, a couple of Makitas and a Trion. The only one I got on with was the brushless 18v Makita (with LED!) but it will wonder on occasion. The Trion was used only for the CMS insert (you can't see where it's going freehand) and the B&D was down to beginners ignorance.

I didn't go for the rail package as, impressive as the the ability to straight cut at 90 is, a circular saw is going to win that battle in most cases.

There's what looks to be a great source of blade alternatives on the Mafell users forum here: https://bit.ly/2SXBjoU From a quick skim they've compiled a list of identical blades to the Mafell ones for a lot less than the Mafell branded ones.

Edit: I give up. The link to the Mafell users forum gets automangled by this forum no matter what I do. PM me if you want the link.

Edit #2: Used bit.ly to get the URL working.

ScotF · « **Reply #56 on:** August 02, 2019, 12:15 AM »

Here are a couple of videos I shot using the P1CC when I first got it a few years back.

RKA · « **Reply #57 on:** August 02, 2019, 07:20 AM »

Something puzzles me about the P1CC videos I saw. For solid wood, no zero clearance insert is being used, sometimes on finished pieces. And the results appear to be good?! Are you really seeing that? Or is this Hollywood magic?

Cheese · « **Reply #58 on:** August 02, 2019, 10:04 AM »

Quote from: RKA on August 02, 2019, 07:20 AM

Something puzzles me about the P1CC videos I saw. For solid wood, no zero clearance insert is being used, sometimes on finished pieces. And the results appear to be good?! Are you really seeing that? Or is this Hollywood magic?

Raj, this walnut was cut without an insert using the Mafell W+P2 blade. The blade is recommended for solid wood, particle board, ply & plastics. This cut was direct from the saw, I just laid down the saw and placed the square in position. You can still see the pencil line that I was cutting to.

RKA · « **Reply #59 on:** August 02, 2019, 11:28 AM »

That's crazy! I never use my carvex without a ZC insert unless I'm just rough cutting. And usually I'm not confident enough in the cut quality anyway (as most would be), so I'm backing off curves 1/8-1/4 and use a router table and templates to get the finished product. That adds time and extra steps. Even the dust collection seemed better judging by some of the videos I watched last night. Another area where I've just come to accept it's useless on jigsaws.

Cheese · « **Reply #60 on:** August 02, 2019, 01:20 PM »

Quote from: RKA on August 02, 2019, 11:28 AM

That's crazy! I never use my carvex without a ZC insert unless I'm just rough cutting. And usually I'm not confident enough in the cut quality anyway (as most would be), so I'm backing off curves 1/8-1/4 and use a router table and templates to get the finished product. That adds time and extra steps. Even the dust collection seemed better judging by some of the videos I watched last night. Another area where I've just come to accept it's useless on jigsaws.

The funny thing Raj is that I had already made a hardboard template for the cutting board and was going to use it to pattern route the cutting board. That's when I realized that the pattern bit I was going to use had the bearings on the wrong end.

So I dispensed with the pattern step and just cut the walnut directly to the pencil line I laid down. It came out great. The cut edge was so smooth and perpendicular that I used my ETS EC to put the finishing touches to the edge.

As far as dust collection goes, the P1 cc also has an internal blower in it, so the blower blows the dust from one side of the base, to the other side of the base where there is a vacuum pickup. This keeps the cut line clean, it cools the jigsaw blade and it collects more of the generated dust.

Here's a quick test I did comparing the dust pickup between the Trion, Carvex & the P1 cc.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/loving-the-carvex/msg580940/#msg580940

Blues · « **Reply #61 on:** August 02, 2019, 03:47 PM »

For all those on the fence.. the P1CC.. my friends is the be all and end all of Jigsaws. Period. Wow. Yes the only gripe is it does not have an led. So happy imade this purchase. This will eventually be the only jigsaw and others would be dispensed. Seriously results are amazing. I used both mafell blades and festool blades.

I beleive bosch makes an adapter for this jigsaw that rides on the festool track. Im going to look into that and will share the link if i can get it to work.

I'm thinking of the mt55 wired that could possibly replace my ts75. Im invested in the 75 with a couple of blades. Any mt55 users who have the 13.5A motor share your feed back?

Wondering if my green is turning red?

ScotF · « **Reply #62 on:** August 02, 2019, 07:14 PM »

Quote from: RKA on August 02, 2019, 07:20 AM

Something puzzles me about the P1CC videos I saw. For solid wood, no zero clearance insert is being used, sometimes on finished pieces. And the results appear to be good?! Are you really seeing that? Or is this Hollywood magic?

No Hollywood magic - the videos I took were unedited off the camera - what you see is the actual cut quality. I have several other ones on my channel - I can make furniture quality joinery cuts right off the saw. I know it is hard to believe until you try it and I use regular Bosch and Festool blades.

jacko9 · « **Reply #63 on:** August 02, 2019, 08:13 PM »

I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor. It's a good saw but, expensive.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #64 on:** August 03, 2019, 05:42 AM »

Quote from: jacko9 on August 02, 2019, 08:13 PM

I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor. It's a good saw but, expensive.

With the greatest respect, I’d have to disagree. We are almost completely cordless now for mobile and site work. When using the cordless plunge saws etc, we normally use an extractor where possible but, often just a dust bag, and that lack of cord is a big plus. Even when using an extractor, not having the weight of a cord is also a plus.

Cordless tech is moving a lot quicker now, and cordless is the future, it’s taking over from 110 volt on many sites I’ve worked on recently. Health and safety welcome it too.

Don’t get me wrong, I own plenty of mains powered tools, 110 volt for site, and 240 volt in the workshop plus the big machinery but, if ever I have the option of a cordless tool, that matches the performance, and sometimes improves on a mains powered counterpart, I’ll take it every time.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #65 on:** August 03, 2019, 09:02 AM »

Made a few cuts with corded TS 55 and the Festool sleeved umbilical. On half the cuts the power cord snagged on the rail shortly after beginning cut, sleeved vac hose did not snag.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #66 on:** August 03, 2019, 12:50 PM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on August 03, 2019, 05:42 AM

Quote from: jacko9 on August 02, 2019, 08:13 PM
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor. It's a good saw but, expensive.

With the greatest respect, I’d have to disagree. We are almost completely cordless now for mobile and site work. When using the cordless plunge saws etc, we normally use an extractor where possible but, often just a dust bag, and that lack of cord is a big plus. Even when using an extractor, not having the weight of a cord is also a plus.

Cordless tech is moving a lot quicker now, and cordless is the future, it’s taking over from 110 volt on many sites I’ve worked on recently. Health and safety welcome it too.

Don’t get me wrong, I own plenty of mains powered tools, 110 volt for site, and 240 volt in the workshop plus the big machinery but, if ever I have the option of a cordless tool, that matches the performance, and sometimes improves on a mains powered counterpart, I’ll take it every time.

The issue is i don't see many people committing to battery systems from niche brands like Mafell and Festool. Folks generaly want all their tools to use the same battery, or maybe 2 big systems. Thus people will have a pile of Big Red and Big Yellow battery tools, they know those battery systems aren't going anywhere. But buying into a battery system from a company with only a handful of tools, not so great. Plus if it's a more specialized and expensive tool, it may be a tool you use for decades, but not that often, so if your battery ages out, now you could have an issue.

It's been an odd thing to go from basically all cordless to now having some corded tools, but there is no way I'm buying battery tools from Festool or Mafell. Yes, the hose is still there, and not having the cord would make the process easier, it's not like getting rid of the cord completely detaches you.

When a tool cost as much as Mafell or Festool charge, I want to be sure it will have a very long life, battery power puts a limit on that. Even if you rebuild your own batteries with new cells, you still need to be able to get the right cells, etc.

I would love battery to be a thing for all tools, but you still have the limits I mention. The other big benifit of batteries is regionalization goes away. The tool can be identical every place in the world.

ScotF · « **Reply #67 on:** August 03, 2019, 04:08 PM »

Mafell uses Metabo batteries for most newer generation and it uses some Bosch batteries for some older generation tools as an FYI.

Festool is making a push to increase cordless - I would guess in a couple of years that they have much more in the system than they do today.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #68 on:** August 03, 2019, 06:08 PM »

@DeformedTree Yes, I get that people don’t want multiple battery platforms but, as ScotF says, Mafell now share their battery platform with around another eight manufacturers, including Metabo, which mean cheaper, similar batteries are available.
It also depends on the amount of use a tool gets. We buy a lot of Makita stuff still, firstly because it’s a nice happy medium for site tools, quality but, at sensible prices. Also at the last count, we had something like 40+ 18 volt batteries, mainly 5ah and a few 6ah.

We operate a good few 36 volt tools, so having multiple batteries and chargers is a must (in my opinion) especially from a professional angle. One of the few site tools we have left that are not cordless are, a couple of table saws. Even our 240mm grinders are all cordless, mitre saws, reciprocating saws, circular saws, drill/drivers, track saws, a couple of extractors, more or less everything. If Makita bring out a 36 volt table saw, I’d buy two instantly.
I haven’t noticed any lack of power or downside, apart from making sure we have plenty of batteries charged, or charging.
I’m used to that though.

Even in the workshop now, I find myself getting irritated by trailing leads.

The reason you don’t see people committing to a battery system from Festool or Mafell, is simply because their range of cordless tools is quite limited, more so Mafell than Festool. Neither come close to range that Makita provide though.

I have spoken to many of the top manufacturers, and lot of the development in power tools now, is geared around cordless, and powerful long lasting batteries. It’s the future, and not just for power tools many household appliances use cordless tech wherever possible.

I’ve embraced it, and lots of trades over here, including me, would always choose cordless over corded, provided there’s no power or performance loss.

Progress and evolution, nothing gets in the way of that.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #69 on:** August 03, 2019, 06:32 PM »

It's not about the performance of battery tools, believe me I am all for them and have no issues there. Nor is it about them being used in more things.

If you are a small company or niche tool maker, it's going to be hard to get a lot of folks to commit. I have a ton of M18 tools, it's great I can just buy bare tools cheap and have more capability. But also it's one of the key's that the tools are cheap. Soon as you start talking many hundreds of dollars and into the thousands for the tools, battery just starts loosing appeal. Now if all brands embraced a dual power source path where I can plug the same tool in a wall, that is where the real answer is.

Far as Matebo and gang battery. Remember many of us are in N.A. where those companies don't exist or have a near zero presence. So that means nothing to us over here. On some levels it's good the minor companies get together, but it is also a sign of the major issue that they have to do that to try and get people in. Also a change, even to a "standardized" battery then means the previous tools are out of luck.

I'm all for battery powered tools, but since getting into having dust collection on everything, it changes things a lot for me. Now festool would need to make a battery powered CT (which wouldn't be a bad thing).

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #70 on:** August 04, 2019, 04:35 AM »

Festool will make cordless extractors further down the line, along with many other cordless versions of their range, including mitre saws etc, you can be sure of that. Just as Mafell will also do.

Going back to the P1, the no LED feature, might be something that’s added in the future.
I have just been talking to somebody about the Erika 85 Ec. There has very recently been a few subtle updates to the latest machines. Slightly different livery, tool holders added etc, and different type of blade guard. The new guard covers more of the blade, and has an included LED work light.

Not sure if these can be retro fitted, I’d imagine with some thought they could be?
There are some other updates too.

Svar · « **Reply #71 on:** August 04, 2019, 04:55 AM »

Quote from: DeformedTree on August 03, 2019, 06:32 PM

Far as Matebo and gang battery. Remember many of us are in N.A. where those companies don't exist or have a near zero presence.

Metabo is widely present in US with full range of their batteries. Has been for decades and not leaving any time soon.

Birdhunter · « **Reply #72 on:** August 04, 2019, 05:57 AM »

I’ve bought my wide range of Festool products at a store close to my home, Highland Woodworking, so I could touch and feel the tools and receive excellent advice.

I felt way out on a limb when I bought the Duo Doweler sight unseen from a company across the country, Timberwolf. Fortunately, the transaction went well with the staff answering all my pre sale and post sales questions. I like the tool and I am confident any issues arising from the tool will be resolved.

I already have Festool jig saws and a tracksaw so the Duo Doweler may be my only Mafell purchase.

Blues · « **Reply #73 on:** August 04, 2019, 07:51 AM »

Can someone who have both tools compare the duo dowler to the domino? I personally think the domino is superior machine. And between the domino and dowel the domino is expensive but stronger and the dowels are cheaper.. so use more dowels to get it stronger? Ease of use? I think the domino is the best festool tool.
The duo doweler is very similar in capability. Thoughts?

JimH2 · « **Reply #74 on:** August 04, 2019, 11:36 AM »

I believe there was an article, which I did not bookmark, that determined they were pluses and minuses for both with no clear winner. I had the domino and moved to the DuoDoweler and have never looked back, but of course ymmv.

JimH2 · « **Reply #75 on:** August 04, 2019, 11:42 AM »

Quote from: Svar on August 04, 2019, 04:55 AM

Quote from: DeformedTree on August 03, 2019, 06:32 PM
Far as Matebo and gang battery. Remember many of us are in N.A. where those companies don't exist or have a near zero presence.
Metabo is widely present in US with full range of their batteries. Has been for decades and not leaving any time soon.

They are also part of Cordless Alliance System that has standardized on an 18V battery platform. No need to sharpshoot the compromises of a common platform as there are obviously some. The recognizable players for those of us in the US are Mafell and Metabo.

Birdhunter · « **Reply #76 on:** August 04, 2019, 12:48 PM »

I have both Domino machines and recently bought the Duo Doweler DDF40. I am still exploring the Duo Doweler capabilities, but ,so far very impressed.

I do see a lot of overlap between the two machines for joinery. The DDF40 does allow sequencing of holes for shelf support where the Domino doesn't.

I am very pleased with the quality of the DDF40 and its accessories. The fit and finish are flawless. It's accuracy is perfect! I really like the use of spring loaded locator pins rather than the flappers that come on the newer Dominos.

I called Timberwolf several times with questions and the response was excellent.

I think loose tenons provide greater strength than the 8mm and 6mm dowels and with the tight/loose mortise technique, tolerate laxer positioning. The DDF40, even in inexperienced hands (mine), is totally accurate. I did a test joint with a matrix of 8 dowels and it went together perfectly the first time.

As with the Domino, the DDF40's manual is rudimentary at best.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #77 on:** August 04, 2019, 01:33 PM »

For all intents and purposes, the Duo Doweller is just that, a double dowelling machine, albeit a very well designed and built one.
Dowels are fine in a lot of instances but, not sure how the joint strength would hold up, compared to a Domino? Certainly a single dowel V a Domino, the Domino would be stronger because of the shape.

Many years ago we used to make a lot of hardwood doors, we offered them in superior hardwoods with all mortise and tenon joints, and also a cheaper timber version, and with dowel jointing to keep cost down. The dowelled doors were nowhere near as durable as the mortise and tenon version. That still stands today, so with that thought, as the Domino is similar to mortise and tenon joint system, I favour that method.

Thing is though, Domino joints are OTT in many situations, often biscuit, dowel or pocket hole joints are more than adequate.

For something a bit different, the Lamello biscuit joiner, used with their connector system is very strong but expensive.
I think these other machines are more of an alternative to the Domino, as opposed to rival.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #78 on:** August 04, 2019, 02:08 PM »

I like to have options.

A couple years before the Domino came out I had a commission make a large L shaped set of bookcases finished in Tung oil but keep the wood presence minimal as in thin elements. Maple ply with veneered edges, shared uprights.

The big corner cabinet had to be knockdown for transport. At that time my best option was dowels but the Duo Doweler was too costly (and I think only the Hoffmann was available here?)

My first test failed, not enough precision. Discovered that the Festool VS600 had a 32mm drilling template so bought that and figured out a way to rig it. With a dowel every 32mm there was enough friction to keep the parts together when clamped/hammered.

All joints doweled. Also found an installed pic.

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #79 on:** August 04, 2019, 02:13 PM »

Quote from: jacko9 on August 02, 2019, 08:13 PM

I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor. It's a good saw but, expensive.

For some cuts, I've found that the MT55 with the dust bag is as clean as the TS55 with a vacuum.

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #80 on:** August 04, 2019, 02:18 PM »

Quote from: Birdhunter on August 04, 2019, 05:57 AM

.

I already have Festool jig saws and a tracksaw so the Duo Doweler may be my only Mafell purchase.

In my opinion, you're missing out, especially with these prices. I love the fact that I have probably 25' worth of rail, clamps, and an angle jig in something akin to a shotgun case. Connecting rails is SO easy! No more aftermarket "workarounds" on that or multiple flips or accessories.

I can clamp right next to the cut line, too. I really appreciate that. No more rail strip coming off inadvertently, either. Rails have built-in hose deflectors. Saw has better hose angle guides that don't rotate back in the way.

Pins instead of paddles on joiner. Awesome jigsaw that doesn't need a second systainer of accessories. Missing out...

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #81 on:** August 04, 2019, 03:47 PM »

@Kodi Crescent Timberwolf should send you a commission.

Birdhunter · « **Reply #82 on:** August 04, 2019, 04:18 PM »

When Mafell introduces a battery version of their jigsaw, I will be sorely tempted.

For how I use my TS55 and Festool jig saws (yes, I have two), they are more than adequate. The Mafell jig saw and track saw look really nice, but offer marginal benefits over my Festool units for my uses.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #83 on:** August 04, 2019, 04:29 PM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on August 04, 2019, 02:08 PM

I like to have options.

A couple years before the Domino came out I had a commission make a large L shaped set of bookcases finished in Tung oil but keep the wood presence minimal as in thin elements. Maple ply with veneered edges, shared uprights.

The big corner cabinet had to be knockdown for transport. At that time my best option was dowels but the Duo Doweler was too costly (and I think only the Hoffmann was available here?)

My first test failed, not enough precision. Discovered that the Festool VS600 had a 32mm drilling template so bought that and figured out a way to rig it. With a dowel every 32mm there was enough friction to keep the parts together when clamped/hammered.

All joints doweled.

Very nice job, and shows that with thought, a job can be completed in many different ways

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #84 on:** August 04, 2019, 04:33 PM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on August 04, 2019, 02:13 PM

Quote from: jacko9 on August 02, 2019, 08:13 PM
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor. It's a good saw but, expensive.

For some cuts, I've found that the MT55 with the dust bag is as clean as the TS55 with a vacuum.

Indeed, it was very noticeably with mine too. To be fair though, I have run a cordless Makita plunge saw with just a dust bag, and that gave surprisingly good results. Not quite on par with the MT-55 but, still very good, and the sense of freedom, and lack of dust really grabbed me.

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #85 on:** August 04, 2019, 06:45 PM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on August 04, 2019, 04:33 PM

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on August 04, 2019, 02:13 PM
Quote from: jacko9 on August 02, 2019, 08:13 PM
I have the Mafell mt55 track saw but I see no need for a cordless version as i would never operate it without dust control and that hose is the limiting factor. It's a good saw but, expensive.

For some cuts, I've found that the MT55 with the dust bag is as clean as the TS55 with a vacuum.

Indeed, it was very noticeably with mine too. To be fair though, I have run a cordless Makita plunge saw with just a dust bag, and that gave surprisingly good results. Not quite on par with the MT-55 but, still very good, and the sense of freedom, and lack of dust really grabbed me.

If I had the dough and the need I'd get the cordless MT55 and just go with the dust bag.

Cheese · « **Reply #86 on:** August 04, 2019, 10:51 PM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on August 04, 2019, 06:45 PM

If I had the dough and the need I'd get the cordless MT55 and just go with the dust bag.

I'm with you Kodi...ever since I purchased the TSC the TS has remained in it's Systainer. It's been sitting in the corner for the last 4 years...alone. Using a saw without a cord and a vac hose attached has been such a liberating experience. It's actually fun to use.

So here's my conundrum, purchase the corded MT55 because it's a great deal and use the TSC for most of my cutting and then employ the MT55 when the going gets tough. In that case I'd move the TS 55 down the road.

OR

Spend the extra $500 and purchase the cordless MT55 while putting both the TSC & TS down the road while having the luxury of cutting without a cord & without a vac hose.

It's guaranteed that one of these two scenarios will happen, I just need to think about it a little longer.

RKA · « **Reply #87 on:** August 04, 2019, 11:46 PM »

@Cheese Get the cordless MT55 and be done with it. I started with the MT55 (corded). I happened upon a TSC for a really good price and I’ve found myself using that every chance I get. The cordless aspect won me over and the dust collection with the bag is far better than I imagined.

Cheese · « **Reply #88 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:04 AM »

Quote from: RKA on August 04, 2019, 11:46 PM

@Cheese Get the cordless MT55 and be done with it. I started with the MT55 (corded). I happened upon a TSC for a really good price and I’ve found myself using that every chance I get. The cordless aspect won me over and the dust collection with the bag is far better than I imagined.

Thanks for that Raj...The corded aspect, especially for a circ saw that you're dragging down a rail with a vac hose and an electrical cord attached, that's catching on the sharp edges of the rail, has never been fun for me. I've put up with it because the results are so satisfying.

The TSC on the other hand is just plain fun to use.

So thinking just a bit more, by putting both the TS & TSC down the road, it would probably take care of paying for the majority of the cost of the cordless MT55 along with it's batteries.

So Raj are you saying that even though you own the MT55, you use the TSC more often because of the convenience factor?

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #89 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:06 AM »

What about power? 18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

Cheese · « **Reply #90 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:09 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on August 05, 2019, 12:06 AM

What about power? 18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

Michael...why do you butt in and ruin my sugar high?

Cheese · « **Reply #91 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:21 AM »

To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #92 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:24 AM »

I’m trying to figure this out too. The only thing I’m sure of is I have too many saws.

AT 65 (used for dense stuff), ATF 55 (with tiny thin kerf Freud blade for pocket cuts in face grain ply), TS 55 (for general use but usually melamine), HKC 55 (and rails for what it’s good for), TSC 55 (for going cordless), TS 75 for deep cuts and aluminum extrusions).

So, the MT55 @18v is much less appealing to me than the doweler but it’s still appealing...and so is the little cordless saw and it’s Flexi-Rail.

Cheese · « **Reply #93 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:46 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on August 05, 2019, 12:24 AM

I’m trying to figure this out too. The only thing I’m sure of is I have too many saws.

AT 65 (used for dense stuff), ATF 55 (with tiny thin kerf Freud blade for pocket cuts in face grain ply), TS 55 (for general use but usually melamine), HKC 55 (and rails for what it’s good for), TSC 55 (for going cordless), TS 75 for deep cuts and aluminum extrusions).

So, the MT55 @18v is much less appealing to me than the doweler but it’s still appealing...and so is the little cordless saw and it’s Flexi-Rail.

And we have less than 60 days to decide...

...I think the MT55 will take the place of the TS 75 for deep cuts (cut from both sides, plus a little jointer action) and it will also certainly handle the aluminum cutting.

It then becomes corded versus cordless. I find it difficult to not embrace cordless tools 100%. I"m finding I'm now using my ETSC cordless sander 5X more than the ETS EC 125/150 combo. It's portable, it's cordless, it's hoseless. It's a pleasure to use.

ScotF · « **Reply #94 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:57 AM »

Personally I think that the TSC55 will outperform the Mafell - just because of the voltage. It is one of the tools where I feel that Festool got everything right. Now if you wanted to consolidate rail systems then that is a different matter. I see a corded MT55 and Duo Dowler in my future.

FWIW - Acme has great prices on Bosch rails - just got the long Bosch rail for the price of the Mafell 1600 rail.

P2P · « **Reply #95 on:** August 05, 2019, 01:33 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on August 05, 2019, 12:21 AM

To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.

Ha! You might be right! My new P1cc showed up about a week ago. Will be using it for the first time on a project in about a week. Can't wait to put it to use!

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #96 on:** August 05, 2019, 02:39 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on August 05, 2019, 12:21 AM

To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.

Svar · « **Reply #97 on:** August 05, 2019, 02:49 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on August 05, 2019, 12:21 AM

To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.

Reading this thread the temptation is great and growing. If I end up buying something I'll hold FOG community responsible.

Roachmill · « **Reply #98 on:** August 05, 2019, 04:59 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on August 05, 2019, 12:21 AM

To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.

^True story^

After reading about how users feel about the P1CC and watching countless videos (yours too ScotF) I'm in delivery page refresh mode. A few findings that may help tip others over the edge:

By the Bosch rails as they appear to be exactly the same as the Mafell but in blue... and way cheaper. Bosch make them for Mafell from what I can see
The rails ability to clamp right next to the cut line looks great for working with narrower stock. Festool sized clamps won't fit the track so be prepared to say, "you're ****ing kidding me!" when you see the price of the bosch FSN rail clamps. I hunted around and found a pair in the UK (from FFX) for just over £50 a pair. You can pay double that, easily
I have a festool plug-it connector en route to try getting it swapped over. It looks to be a straight forward switch both being 240V. Someone detailed swapping over their DuoDowler on the Mafell users forum (https://bit.ly/2YCbNa4) and the process should be similar.
To all intents and purposes, the Mafell jigsaw blades (except the W1) have direct and way cheaper Bosch equivalents. Again, credit to the Mafell forum for the detective work on this https://bit.ly/2SXBjoU

RKA · « **Reply #99 on:** August 05, 2019, 07:32 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on August 05, 2019, 12:06 AM

What about power? 18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

You know, I forgot about that. You’re absolutely right. That would certainly make me rethink a cordless MT55 as my only tracksaw, especially if you’re using it on hardwoods.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #100 on:** August 05, 2019, 09:44 AM »

Quote from: Svar on August 05, 2019, 02:49 AM

Quote from: Cheese on August 05, 2019, 12:21 AM
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.
Reading this thread the temptation is great and growing. If I end up buying something I'll hold FOG community responsible.

@Svar You are a critical thinker on the subject of tools. I’d like to know which Mafells have held your interest.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #101 on:** August 05, 2019, 10:25 AM »

The Mafell track system is trying to get me to buy yet another saw.

Easy and reliable joining of track sections
Aero-Fix clamping (using the vacuum suction to hold the rail to the work)
clamping the rail to narrow stock

If the Flexi-Rail was also compatible with the MT55 I’d be sold...

Cheese · « **Reply #102 on:** August 05, 2019, 10:30 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on August 05, 2019, 12:06 AM

What about power? 18v MT55 vs. 36v TSC55?

Go figure...this may not be an issue. Recently I actually had better luck ripping aromatic cedar with the 18v HKC than using the 36V TSC.

See reply 21:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/hk-55-has-ts-55-motor/msg581440/#msg581440

Starting at reply 4:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/tsc-55-blade-marks-in-aromatic-cedar/msg579336/#msg579336

I also noticed that the Mafell blades all have a 1.8 mm thick kerf like the HKC. That's a 20% smaller kerf.

Also of note is Mafell offers a 162 mm diameter blade so that the MT 55 has a true 2" depth capacity when using it on a rail.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #103 on:** August 05, 2019, 01:25 PM »

Talked with a friendly knowledgeable guy at Timberwolf.

Some facts to consider,

MT55 cordless runs at 4850 rpm, and does not have a riving knife. Mafell claimed the knife was not needed on their MT55 (corded) because it runs at higher speed, 6200 rpm. (A side note, my old ATF55 has started randomly bypassing the speed control system on it's own, something I've desired for a long time. Yesterday it started up out of the gate like a screaming banshee, I'm guessing 6500 rpm. Cut great! No shuddering. Out of curiosity I fiddled with the speed control dial and imediately the speed was governed and the grinding returned.

)

The neat little Flexi-Rail that curls up in a Systainer can be used with larger saws at 90 degrees with no issue but because it is very thin the cut line on bevel cuts will be outboard of the splinter guard.

Bosch guide rails are made in the Mafell factory and are no different except in color. There will be/are Bosch rails with holes punched for use with a Bosch router base, probably to imitate the LR32 system.

The DDF 40 Duo dowewler comes with two 8mm bits and two 6mm bits. Can not swap the 6mm bits for the 5mm bits I'd prefer so thats an extra $78.

All Mafell products have to be shipped according to Mafell's scope of delivery. So the slightly larger (crosscuts 16" instead of the under 10" of the KSS 400) KSS 500 cordless cutting system comes in a big steel case (31"x12"x11") instead of the familiar Systainer.

Timberwolf ships via FedEx. Supposedly FedEx treats guide rails better than UPS. Shipping is not free as we've become accustomed to with Festools. Buying more than one tool at a time might save a little on shipping?

Svar · « **Reply #104 on:** August 05, 2019, 06:26 PM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on August 05, 2019, 09:44 AM

Quote from: Svar on August 05, 2019, 02:49 AM
Quote from: Cheese on August 05, 2019, 12:21 AM
To tell you the truth, this FOG thread has probably generated more sales for Mafell than the Mafell website.
Reading this thread the temptation is great and growing. If I end up buying something I'll hold FOG community responsible.
@Svar You are a critical thinker on the subject of tools. I’d like to know which Mafells have held your interest.

@Michael Kellough I bought gently used P1CC a while ago and was convinced when I needed to cut small accurate circles out of 3/4 ply. Could not believe how well it worked.
Now eyeing a carpentry saw.

ScotF · « **Reply #105 on:** August 06, 2019, 01:32 AM »

Yes. Buying more saves on shipping...about $15.00 to the west coast buying a MT and Duo Doweler, for example. Other manufacturers make dowel bits...CMT, for example, for less cost than Mafell.

Bosch clamps are cheaper than Mafell screw clamps. The new Mafell quick style are more costly, but can be used as a regular quick clamp should you so choose.

One year warranty...so I am waiting a few weeks to get tools before my next project. I did have to use the warranty with my first P1CC, but Timberwolf service was stellar and I had a new saw in less than a week.

Tom Gensmer · « **Reply #106 on:** August 06, 2019, 10:09 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on August 05, 2019, 01:25 PM

Talked with a friendly knowledgeable guy at Timberwolf.

The staff at Timberwolf Tools are great. They are very knowledgeable about the products they sell, and many of them have visited the Mafell factory in Germany for hands-on training. On the rare occasions that I've asked a question they didn't immediately have an answer for, they followed up quickly after consulting their notes or reaching out to the mothership.

The big thing to note is the return policy. Timberwolf generally serves the professional market, people who know exactly what they want. So, once you've used a tool, it's yours, don't try to return it because you don't like the color or you didn't understand what you were buying. Also, to qualify for the warranty users must sign a contract stating they are a professional user of power tools. Again, trying to skew away from casual users so they can focus on the professional market.

The Mafell tools are great. I have the KSS-300, KSS-400, KSS-40 18BL, P1cc, DD-40P, Erika 70, and S-35, haven't had a single hiccup with any of them.

jimbo51 · « **Reply #107 on:** August 06, 2019, 11:16 AM »

Also, to qualify for the warranty users must sign a contract stating they are a professional user of power tool.

I doubt that woud hold up in court in many states in the US.

broseiden · « **Reply #108 on:** August 06, 2019, 11:33 AM »

Hey Tom -- I've been reading about the KSS 300 vs KSS 400, and I know there is some overlap in their functionality. Hoping you could offer some input on what might be the best choice for me, at least for the first one

Tasks I think using a KSS may help increase my efficiency:

2x6 or 5/4 decking
Stair treads and risers
Stair stringers maybe?
Closet shelving
Trimming door jambs on pre-hungs

I dont see myself using a KSS for flooring (I use shears for LVP) or framing (dont do hip roofs or stuff where the quick compound miter cutting would be nice). Might be nice for some exterior trim like fascia, or keeping it nearby while doing interior finishing fortaking a bit off of the square end of coped baseboard.

I'm leaning toward the 400 for depth of cut (if KSS works well for stringers and decking) and blade selection.

Birdhunter · « **Reply #109 on:** August 06, 2019, 12:49 PM »

I was reading the Mafell site comments re their jigsaw. Lots of comments on the barrel getting too hot to hold. Is this a real issue?

lshah72414 · « **Reply #110 on:** August 06, 2019, 02:24 PM »

I saw the same post as you. My P1cc gets warm, but never has gotten so hot I want to put it down. Not a real problem for me.

Roachmill · « **Reply #111 on:** August 06, 2019, 03:23 PM »

P1CC arrived today and just taken it for a spin. Not disappointed at all. Only put it through some 18mm MDF so I don't think I taxed it much

The splinter guards are in no danger of ever falling out like others I've quickly lost on other saws. Once they're in they're not coming out without a fight. The dust connector is similarly tight fitting.

I also noted how accustomed I am to everything wired having a plug-it connection on the tool. That convenience will be restored once the conversion socket arrives.

The W1 blade is "not bad" at all!

Cheese · « **Reply #112 on:** August 06, 2019, 03:40 PM »

Quote from: Birdhunter on August 06, 2019, 12:49 PM

I was reading the Mafell site comments re their jigsaw. Lots of comments on the barrel getting too hot to hold. Is this a real issue?

I use mine outside all the time and I don’t have an issue. I just try to keep it in the shade when I’m not using it. I don’t wear gloves either as opposed to when I used to have the Original Fein.

ScotF · « **Reply #113 on:** August 07, 2019, 12:17 AM »

Mine does not get hot...it is similar to every other BG jigsaw I own or use. Even in extended cutting sessions.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #114 on:** August 07, 2019, 02:10 AM »

I’m pretty sure that any P1’s that got uncomfortably hot, were found to have a small issue, and were quickly repaired, or more often than not, completely replaced.

I think it boiled down to what some found hot, others did not, so basically, if an issue was raised on warranty, it was sorted very quickly.
So, if you own one of these machines, and it gets hot under normal use, get it sorted.
The machine will get warm like most barrel bodied machines do but, it shouldn’t get hot.

I think this issue was eliminated quite a while ago though.

Blues · « **Reply #115 on:** August 07, 2019, 04:18 AM »

Quote from: Roachmill on August 06, 2019, 03:23 PM

P1CC arrived today and just taken it for a spin. Not disappointed at all. Only put it through some 18mm MDF so I don't think I taxed it much

The splinter guards are in no danger of ever falling out like others I've quickly lost on other saws. Once they're in they're not coming out without a fight. The dust connector is similarly tight fitting.

I also noted how accustomed I am to everything wired having a plug-it connection on the tool. That convenience will be restored once the conversion socket arrives.

The W1 blade is "not bad" at all!

I echo the same observations.
Yes the splinter guard goes in very tight. With the w1 blade unless you take out the splinter guard you can't remove the blade. Wish this mechanism was a bit smooth. Have to use brute force to take it off.

Also the dust extractor goes in very tight. Wish it was finer. May be with use it could get better.

After i opened the box i might have used the saw for 15 min and noticed it got warm..kinda hot that i noticed it. Also after 1st use a hex nut fell off. Glad i spotted it. Saved it. Reached out to Timber wolf.
Jeff responded immediately with the schematic and pointed that the hex nut was from the tilting base that secures the parallel fence. He was spot on with the observation. I have since put the nut back in.. but could it fall off again? I don't know. Wondering if I should secure it with a dab of glue.
On the heating part Jeff's response was ah well it's normal. Is a 900W motor and it's a barrel grip so you might feel it more. My point was i used it only for 15 min. Anyways i will continue to use it and if it's very noticeable will reach out again.

Point worth sharing is i did not get the feeling that the heating issue was acknowledged enough. Also i did not get the confidence come through to ease the customer. Rather the unsaid message was don't return the tool for this reason. If it's truly broken we will repair it for you.

Also my MT55 (corded) arrived. Beautiful tool. A lot more refined in build quality than the p1cc in my opinion. Superb cut quality. Ran it on the festool rail on my mft. Cut line is further away from the rubber lip. So no assist from the lip to prevent tear out... but absolutley no tear out.. glass smooth cuts. Sheer joy to work with the tool.
I have the ts75 at 13A that makes wayyy more noise when it cuts. The mt55 @ 13.5A is whisper smooth in comparison. While i can feel the ts75 labor through a cut, mt55 just glides thro and feels as if it is not even cutting. I think it's a combination of a little more power, thin kerf, and a great blade. Lovin it.

P1CC cuts great. Left me wanting a little more refinement. I will be putting it through bigger and longer cuts before i declare if the tool should go back for repair.

For now I'd say timber wolf service is ok. When i read between the lines the message is "you have bought a great tool. And it should work. If it truly is broken we will repair it, but don't return the tool for any reason". And that might throw off a few.
Just sharing my experience. Both Mafell and Timberwolf are great companies and have been around for many years. Im sure if the need arises they would service their customers well. We'll see.

Roachmill · « **Reply #116 on:** August 07, 2019, 12:01 PM »

Plug-it conversion done and dusted. Very simple procedure to do and fits nicely in the box too. Yay for no long cable

Put a Bosch T344D (the Mafell W3) blade through a 95mm decking post no bother at all... and yes it was a 90 degree cut. Colour me shocked!

Tom Gensmer · « **Reply #117 on:** August 08, 2019, 09:04 PM »

Quote from: broseiden on August 06, 2019, 11:33 AM

Hey Tom -- I've been reading about the KSS 300 vs KSS 400, and I know there is some overlap in their functionality. Hoping you could offer some input on what might be the best choice for me, at least for the first one

Tasks I think using a KSS may help increase my efficiency:

2x6 or 5/4 decking
Stair treads and risers
Stair stringers maybe?
Closet shelving
Trimming door jambs on pre-hungs

I dont see myself using a KSS for flooring (I use shears for LVP) or framing (dont do hip roofs or stuff where the quick compound miter cutting would be nice). Might be nice for some exterior trim like fascia, or keeping it nearby while doing interior finishing fortaking a bit off of the square end of coped baseboard.

I'm leaning toward the 400 for depth of cut (if KSS works well for stringers and decking) and blade selection.

Sorry for the delay, "busy-busy!".

I think the KSS-40 would be the best match for you, based on what you've described. The KSS-40 is a nice, compact tool that excels at trim and millwork, and is a champ at crosscutting 2x material (no bevel). Paired with a Erika 70 and my P1cc, there's not much I can't cut on a trim project.

If you find yourself cutting a lot of 2x material at a bevel or ripping 2x material, then you may want to look at the KSS-60, KSS-50, or KSS-400. They're fabulous saws (I love my KSS-400) and can absolutely be used for trim and millwork, but due to their size and weight I really prefer them for framing.

My MT55 is a dream in the shop. The Mafell tracks are great, but I still have the option to use Festool tracks if I want to use my TSO parallel guides.

Blues · « **Reply #118 on:** August 10, 2019, 05:31 AM »

The MT55 on Festool track works great. But the cut line is further past the rubber lip with no assist to prevent tear out. Still the MT55 provided remarkable glass smooth cuts. Truly a lovely tool.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #119 on:** August 10, 2019, 09:34 AM »

Quote from: Blues on August 10, 2019, 05:31 AM

The MT55 on Festool track works great. But the cut line is further past the rubber lip with no assist to prevent tear out. Still the MT55 provided remarkable glass smooth cuts. Truly a lovely tool.

Can this be adjusted on the MT55 like the TS saws?

Blues · « **Reply #120 on:** August 10, 2019, 11:58 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on August 10, 2019, 09:34 AM

Quote from: Blues on August 10, 2019, 05:31 AM
Can this be adjusted on the MT55 like the TS saws?

NO (that i am aware of). The only setting available would be to adjust the wiggle on the track to make it snug fit. I really like the fact that those knobs are on top of the saw (similar to the two green ones on the festool).

I have a TS 75.. and is there an adjustment to move the blade in or out? If it were.. stupid me, am not aware of it.

Blues · « **Reply #121 on:** August 10, 2019, 12:09 PM »

Attached is a picture. Hope it helps.
I just removed the plastic lip.. moved it further and stuck it back. Then used the MT55 to trim it. Now it is adjusted for the MT55 which i hope will be my primary saw. Festool baldes are thicker. I noticed the same on the TS75 when i used the Tenryu blades as well.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #122 on:** August 10, 2019, 02:38 PM »

When the TS 75 first arrived buyers who also owned a 55 (ATF or TS) were annoyed that the 75 cut down the splinter guard by about a half mm. Looks like the MT 55 cuts a bit beyond where a TS 55 would cut.

The position of the Festool saws can be adjusted.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #123 on:** August 10, 2019, 03:50 PM »

The MT-55 does have adjustment, just not much of it, well when using it with Festool or Makita rails that is.
When on the Mafell rails, with the plastic base insert mounted, the blade is close to the splinter guard as you’d expect.

It’s like Mafell are saying they prefer us to use their rails. Which makes sense as they’re superior.
Whenever I use the MT-55, I always use the Mafell rails that came with it. The saw feels like it’s gliding on air with them.

Blues · « **Reply #124 on:** August 10, 2019, 04:47 PM »

How do we adjust the blades to go in or out of the cutline on the festool saws?

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #125 on:** August 10, 2019, 05:15 PM »

Quote from: Blues on August 10, 2019, 04:47 PM

How do we adjust the blades to go in or out of the cutline on the festool saws?

Have a look at this:

Blues · « **Reply #126 on:** August 10, 2019, 07:48 PM »

Have a look at this:
[/quote]

Thank you!

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #127 on:** August 11, 2019, 03:38 AM »

Quote from: Blues on August 10, 2019, 07:48 PM

Have a look at this:

Thank you!
[/quote]

You’re welcome.

JimmyFord · « **Reply #128 on:** August 15, 2019, 08:02 PM »

The mt55 is the best saw I have ever owned or used, I kinda want a second one while they are on sale. Finally got a p1cc, it every bit lives up to the hype. Now I want a dd40 lol

Blues · « **Reply #129 on:** August 19, 2019, 02:14 AM »

I would never have bought these items if they were not on sale.
The MT55 would replace my TS 75. The MT55 is the best saw i have used.

The DDF40 compliments the Domino XL beautifully. Love the Domino XL and the connectors. DDF40 is easy to use and very precise. Just the LR32 is about 500$. With this tool no big set up to drill shelf pins. Very quick and intuitive for a domino user. Fantastic for sheet goods.

The P1CC is like no other. No comparison.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #130 on:** August 19, 2019, 12:23 PM »

I’ve said before, that in my opinion, the MT55 is the best designed plunge saw available.
However, my 36v bluetooth Makita is still my favourite, and my very little used TS55 has now been sold.

HowardH · « **Reply #131 on:** August 23, 2019, 04:57 PM »

I bit. Took the plunge... and got the new DDF40. It's a essentially a domino that uses dowels. Everything lines up perfectly and the accessories I am still working through. I will say their manual is even worse than Festool's and they don't have the supplemental versions, either. Good thing they have quite a few training videos at Timberwolf. I was told Mafell relies more on their dealer network for training. Otherwise, I'm thrilled with it.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #132 on:** August 23, 2019, 05:15 PM »

Although I returned my DDF40 I could have used it yesterday on some cabinet stretchers. They had to be narrow and I could have used the extra space (dowels instead of Dominos) for more pocket screws.

broseiden · « **Reply #133 on:** August 26, 2019, 10:51 AM »

I think my favorite thing about the MT55CC as compared to my TS55 is that the hose connector fits the hose much more securely, and when rotated into a position it stays there much more securely. Both compared to the stock hose port, and the one for the dust bag.

yetihunter · « **Reply #134 on:** August 27, 2019, 01:12 AM »

Haven’t posted in a while.

Owned a P1CC. Best corded Jigsaw ever.
Bosch is no slouch.

Owned a MT55cc. Best tracksaw ever.
Festool is no slouch, but it’s beat (especially in power).
From what I understand, the cordless version eats the cordless Festool for breakfast.

Owned the KSS40. The whole kit with flexi rail. It is amazing.
Probably more powerful than the larger cordless HKC.

The larger kss saws eat the HKC for breakfast.

Owned the original Duo Doweler. Not going to compare to Domino and Lamello, because they are all better than the others at one thing or another. I would take it plus a biscuit joiner over the DF500, however.

Mafell consolidates their tools + inserts into less and smaller systainers than Festool. To be fair, Festool has to design exponentially more inserts. Observe the P1CC, there’s a place for everything (including the rose box full of blades) inside of a SYS1.

Timberwolf is a fantastic dealer.

People overate their (Bosch’s, to be precise) guide rails, however.
True, linking rails is miles ahead of the Festool method, but that is all they have going for them. No top t-slot. Bottom t-slot is thin and thus the rail clamps you can easily bend with your thumbs like Uri Gellar to silverwear while on steroids. The miter/square rail attachment ain’t no replacement for the TSO rail square. Lighter, easier to move on you. Flexi rail is legit, though.

I’m not pooping on Festool. Best electric sanders (and so many). Best routers.
Still the best electronic clutch on a drill. MFT is now in the ridiculous price range, but still nothing better off the shelf. etc

Snatch up these deals.

Blues · « **Reply #135 on:** August 27, 2019, 07:57 AM »

When i picked up the DDF40 (already had the XL with seneca) in my mind was thinking.. i might have some overlap in the functionality. I think dowels have their place and perfectly compliment the dominos. For starters the dual dowels are strong enough. I find myself reaching for the DDF40 when working with sheet goods, but certainly for the Dominos when attaching legs or working on bigger projects. The XL in my opinion is a beautiful tool..(id rate the xl best festool tool) so well balanced and love the front and rear handles. The DDF is not ergonomically so awesome.. but good enough. Luckily have had no issues with the plunge (could be a stiffer spring) or the power switch.

So i see both tools compliment each other. I will share some pictures of a walnut cabinet where i have used both.

yetihunter · « **Reply #136 on:** August 27, 2019, 08:12 PM »

Quote from: Blues on August 27, 2019, 07:57 AM

When i picked up the DDF40 (already had the XL with seneca) in my mind was thinking.. i might have some overlap in the functionality. I think dowels have their place and perfectly compliment the dominos. For starters the dual dowels are strong enough. I find myself reaching for the DDF40 when working with sheet goods, but certainly for the Dominos when attaching legs or working on bigger projects. The XL in my opinion is a beautiful tool..(id rate the xl best festool tool) so well balanced and love the front and rear handles. The DDF is not ergonomically so awesome.. but good enough. Luckily have had no issues with the plunge (could be a stiffer spring) or the power switch.

So i see both tools compliment each other. I will share some pictures of a walnut cabinet where i have used both.

It’s been long enough to forget particularly what and where but for thinner material you can fit a significantly larger dowel than a domino. Dominos get so small at a point that you’re better off with a biscuit (imho). A lot of FOG members express selling off their biscuit joiner after buying the DF500. That’s nice and all, but was it a Lamello or was it a Harbor Freight? Where did you buy your biscuits? How were they stored? I digress. Your cuts have to be spot on to only use the Mafell, but the thought process I always had in mind was (say you’re building a box) to use the doweler on the front of facing side of the piece for perfect registration and dominos or biscuits in the back of the piece. Quick and fool proof for the quick and dirty minded. That said, it’s not the tool to go to if you only want to own one joiner.

Lincoln · « **Reply #137 on:** August 27, 2019, 11:59 PM »

Agree with you re. biscuit joiners - if you replaced one with a Domino, then you weren't using it in the right way to start with. Like a lot of tools, they co-exist and work well together. It's like selling a jigsaw because you now have a circular saw.

JimH2 · « **Reply #138 on:** August 28, 2019, 10:49 AM »

Quote from: yetihunter on August 27, 2019, 01:12 AM

Haven’t posted in a while.

Owned a P1CC. Best corded Jigsaw ever.
Bosch is no slouch.

Owned a MT55cc. Best tracksaw ever.
Festool is no slouch, but it’s beat (especially in power).
From what I understand, the cordless version eats the cordless Festool for breakfast.

Owned the KSS40. The whole kit with flexi rail. It is amazing.
Probably more powerful than the larger cordless HKC.

The larger kss saws eat the HKC for breakfast.

Owned the original Duo Doweler. Not going to compare to Domino and Lamello, because they are all better than the others at one thing or another. I would take it plus a biscuit joiner over the DF500, however.

Mafell consolidates their tools + inserts into less and smaller systainers than Festool. To be fair, Festool has to design exponentially more inserts. Observe the P1CC, there’s a place for everything (including the rose box full of blades) inside of a SYS1.

Timberwolf is a fantastic dealer.

People overate their (Bosch’s, to be precise) guide rails, however.
True, linking rails is miles ahead of the Festool method, but that is all they have going for them. No top t-slot. Bottom t-slot is thin and thus the rail clamps you can easily bend with your thumbs like Uri Gellar to silverwear while on steroids. The miter/square rail attachment ain’t no replacement for the TSO rail square. Lighter, easier to move on you. Flexi rail is legit, though.

I’m not pooping on Festool. Best electric sanders (and so many). Best routers.
Still the best electronic clutch on a drill. MFT is now in the ridiculous price range, but still nothing better off the shelf. etc

Snatch up these deals.

Since you have "owned" them what are you using now? It's hard to take an endorsement from someone who no longer owns them or apparently Festool or at least believes Mafell to be better than Festool for the tools listed.

I'm not brand-locked owning tools from Festool, Mafell, Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, and others so I am definitely curious what you are using. I have never bent a Mafell or Bosch rail, but if someone has a habit of over tightening things then I guess it could be an issue. The rest of your commentary is in line with my experience.

I'll add to your Festool router rating of best...there is no router that can hold its own against the 2200. I'm using mine more and more for things you'd logically use a lighter router for and realizing there is no comparison between the 1400 and 2200.

yetihunter · « **Reply #139 on:** September 02, 2019, 08:36 AM »

Quote from: JimH2 on August 28, 2019, 10:49 AM

Quote from: yetihunter on August 27, 2019, 01:12 AM
Haven’t posted in a while.

Owned a P1CC. Best corded Jigsaw ever.
Bosch is no slouch.

Owned a MT55cc. Best tracksaw ever.
Festool is no slouch, but it’s beat (especially in power).
From what I understand, the cordless version eats the cordless Festool for breakfast.

Owned the KSS40. The whole kit with flexi rail. It is amazing.
Probably more powerful than the larger cordless HKC.

The larger kss saws eat the HKC for breakfast.

Owned the original Duo Doweler. Not going to compare to Domino and Lamello, because they are all better than the others at one thing or another. I would take it plus a biscuit joiner over the DF500, however.

Mafell consolidates their tools + inserts into less and smaller systainers than Festool. To be fair, Festool has to design exponentially more inserts. Observe the P1CC, there’s a place for everything (including the rose box full of blades) inside of a SYS1.

Timberwolf is a fantastic dealer.

People overate their (Bosch’s, to be precise) guide rails, however.
True, linking rails is miles ahead of the Festool method, but that is all they have going for them. No top t-slot. Bottom t-slot is thin and thus the rail clamps you can easily bend with your thumbs like Uri Gellar to silverwear while on steroids. The miter/square rail attachment ain’t no replacement for the TSO rail square. Lighter, easier to move on you. Flexi rail is legit, though.

I’m not pooping on Festool. Best electric sanders (and so many). Best routers.
Still the best electronic clutch on a drill. MFT is now in the ridiculous price range, but still nothing better off the shelf. etc

Snatch up these deals.

Since you have "owned" them what are you using now? It's hard to take an endorsement from someone who no longer owns them or apparently Festool or at least believes Mafell to be better than Festool for the tools listed.

I'm not brand-locked owning tools from Festool, Mafell, Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, and others so I am definitely curious what you are using. I have never bent a Mafell or Bosch rail, but if someone has a habit of over tightening things then I guess it could be an issue. The rest of your commentary is in line with my experience.

I'll add to your Festool router rating of best...there is no router that can hold its own against the 2200. I'm using mine more and more for things you'd logically use a lighter router for and realizing there is no comparison between the 1400 and 2200.

I use nothing now. I closed my shop last year and began a fire sale the minute I got laid off. But thanks for asking. 😂

Tomorrow I’ll have time to add more constructive feedback as I read the whole thread and there’s a lot of different questions that came up that I can answer.
In the meantime, no, there was no Festool nor Mafell exodus. I should also qualify my statements about varying $$$ joiners: if one is interested in only one joiner to do 99% of their joining needs...the DF500 (or DF700) is (imho) the way to go.

I should clarify on the guiderails. It's the guiderail clamps that bend (the part that mates with the track) and not the actual guiderails.