Author Topic: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools (Read 16573 times)

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #30 on:** July 28, 2019, 08:46 PM »

With regards to the MT55 and batteries, see the KSS40 18M package deal for $999. It comes with 2 batteries, a charger, and the Flexi-rail for $185 more than the bare tool without the Flexi-rail.

I figure that if you want to go cordless, get the KSS40 18M package and the MT55 cordless. That's how I'd do it if I had the dough. Maybe I'll do it even though I don't have it.

As far as the MT55 vs. the TS 55 - I have both. I don't touch the TS55 any longer. A cordless MT55 would be even better!
In my opinion, the MT55 with the dust bag extracts the dust as well as the TS55 and the extractor.

The P1CC is terrific! The price of it, and the MT55 are a steal in comparison to regular Mafell prices.

Although Festool has more accessories, many of those accessories are to make up for shortcomings within the Festool system. Festool is great at nickel-diming you to death, either through their own accessories or through aftermarket ones. (Notice that no other tool brand has a cottage industry of accessory makers building accessories to overcome product shortcomings.)

The Mafell stuff just works. No accessories needed. I may sell all my Festool stuff and replace it with Mafell. Who needs all that extra stuff when you can have a tool that just works as intended?

Cheese · « **Reply #31 on:** July 29, 2019, 02:14 AM »

As far as kick back goes, both my TS & TSC 55 have done so on probably a half dozen occasions. Not a big deal but I was quite surprised given the fact that the riving knife is so highly applauded.

So my take-away is the riving knife is helpful 50% of the time but another aid would be more helpful the other 50%. I think the increased blade speed of the Mafell may be the answer.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #32 on:** July 29, 2019, 02:18 AM »

@Kodi Crescent

I agree with most of what your post says. It’s been my belief for many many years, the Mafell make the best power tools money can buy but, at probably the highest price tag.
The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.

If I just worked on my own, I would have kitted myself out with Mafell years ago but, I don’t. So the tools I buy are used professionally and by various people I employ. So financially not viable, although I own a few Mafell tools now but, they are for my personal use.

The main differences between Festool and Mafell apart from price, are as you say, Mafell do not have as many accessories, nor do they need them.
The other thing to bear in mind is Mafell is designed primarily with the professional user in mind.
Festool seem to cater for all kinds, professional, hobbyist, and DIY.
Lamello although only making a limited range of tools, are also very much a premium brand, with a price tag to match, and aimed more at professional use.

I often wonder if expensive tools are really worth their price, then get to use or buy that tool, and realise they probably are. Then you see another tool that cost a third of the price but, still does the job?
I have been mulling over buying an Erika 85 for quite some time, as in my opinion it’s the best portable table saw out there, with a big price. I am wondering if I could get similar precision with a cheaper saw, and from what I’ve seen recently, I could.

So I guess it’s down to what somebody, professional, hobbyist, DIY or otherwise is willing to pay?

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #33 on:** July 29, 2019, 10:24 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on July 29, 2019, 02:14 AM

As far as kick back goes, both my TS & TSC 55 have done so on probably a half dozen occasions. Not a big deal but I was quite surprised given the fact that the riving knife is so highly applauded.

So my take-away is the riving knife is helpful 50% of the time but another aid would be more helpful the other 50%. I think the increased blade speed of the Mafell may be the answer.

I had my MT55 kickback once. Cut a nice chunk out of the brand new rail I was using. I cut that part off and now have a shorter rail.

I was cutting a piece of material where there was a large waste piece overhanging the edge of the workbench, unsupported. Nearing the end of the cut, the unsupported portion twisted and closed the kerf, grabbing the blade. The saw jumped off the track, slicing the track. I learned not to do that again. Now I support the off cut or place shims behind the saw while cutting. I haven't had it happen again.

Cheese · « **Reply #34 on:** July 29, 2019, 10:34 AM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on July 29, 2019, 02:18 AM

The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.

That's certainly been my experience with the P1 cc. Way too many "little touches" to discuss here lest I start to sound like an infomercial. They even go to lengths to arrange the Systainer so that optional items will still fit inside the Sys 1.

I'll post a photo later

RKA · « **Reply #35 on:** July 29, 2019, 10:39 AM »

In terms of the nickel and diming and the aftermarket accessories, I think that perception may be a little colored. If you look at it the other way, Mafell may give you a circle cutting jig but the price of the saw is higher. Festool offers it as an added option but the price of the saw is lower. If you don't need it, you have an option to omit with Festool.

Regarding the aftermarket accessories, first, Festool offers a broader variety of tools and other workshop items than Mafell. Their larger presence and service in the US also appeal to a larger audience. It's that audience I believe encourages the cottage industry of aftermarket accessories, not necessarily some inherent weakness. In some instances, Mafell would benefit from these as well, but for all purposes, there aren't enough potential users of the platform to justify the development of the products. Take an 90 degree rail square such as that offered by TSO. Mafell users would benefit from it just as much as Festool users. It's not an inherent weakness in the tool, just a different way to use it.

One more point regarding the KSS40 batteries. It seems they are 94 watt hour batteries vs. 99 watt hour batteries with the MT55 kit. Obviously the capacity difference is marginal, however, there may be other changes to the battery, such as higher discharge rates, that make one battery more suitable for the MT55. I don't know, I just noticed that difference when scrutinizing the pricing differences, but since I'm not in the market for either one, I didn't dig deeper. If you're thinking about going down this road it might be worth asking a few more questions before taking the leap.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #36 on:** July 29, 2019, 03:10 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on July 29, 2019, 10:34 AM

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on July 29, 2019, 02:18 AM

The tools are very well designed with form and function in mind, they seem to include little touches that get overlooked by other manufacturers.

That's certainly been my experience with the P1 cc. Way too many "little touches" to discuss here lest I start to sound like an infomercial. They even go to lengths to arrange the Systainer so that optional items will still fit inside the Sys 1.

I'll post a photo later

Yeah I know exactly what you’re saying Cheese, they seem to leave no stone unturned with development and design. My MT55 has some great touches, one that comes to mind is the bevel lock, it only has one lock at the front. Well it does have front and rear but, the rear is operated simultaneously with the front.

If money was no object, my workshop would be Mafell and Lamello apart from the large machinery.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #37 on:** July 29, 2019, 05:49 PM »

Quote from: Kodi Crescent on July 28, 2019, 08:46 PM

With regards to the MT55 and batteries, see the KSS40 18M package deal for $999. It comes with 2 batteries, a charger, and the Flexi-rail for $185 more than the bare tool without the Flexi-rail.

I figure that if you want to go cordless, get the KSS40 18M package and the MT55 cordless. That's how I'd do it if I had the dough. Maybe I'll do it even though I don't have it.

As far as the MT55 vs. the TS 55 - I have both. I don't touch the TS55 any longer. A cordless MT55 would be even better!
In my opinion, the MT55 with the dust bag extracts the dust as well as the TS55 and the extractor.

The P1CC is terrific! The price of it, and the MT55 are a steal in comparison to regular Mafell prices.

Although Festool has more accessories, many of those accessories are to make up for shortcomings within the Festool system. Festool is great at nickel-diming you to death, either through their own accessories or through aftermarket ones. (Notice that no other tool brand has a cottage industry of accessory makers building accessories to overcome product shortcomings.)

The Mafell stuff just works. No accessories needed. I may sell all my Festool stuff and replace it with Mafell. Who needs all that extra stuff when you can have a tool that just works as intended?

I don’t think the KSS 40 package includes the Flexi-rail. It’s shown in the box but not included in the list. Hope I’m wrong...

The batteries are the previous generation 5.2Ah. The new LiHD batteries are 5.4Ah.

Blues · « **Reply #38 on:** July 29, 2019, 06:27 PM »

The P1CC has arrived today. Yet to open the box.

Even though I have the TS75 (never liked the 55), I am tempted to get the MT55 with chord (more power) and I don't have to deal with battery and my existing vac will turn on without stupid Bluetooth. Might just end up selling the TS75 (I do lose 3/4" cut capacity. I think I can live with that). It's about 3 lbs lighter. As you all mention, there are so many small design features that make it desirable. The real reason I am thinking about it is they increased the capacity 13.5A motor!

I believe the battery powered tools certainly have their place for example the impact or drill. But I am on the fence when it comes to a track saw!! I could be wrong but the kss40 with the battery makes sense. You could be on the roof or laying floors and you have the tool right there to make the cut with no dust. Its small and easy to imagine the use as a portable tool. Not so much the MT55 18M.

My slide down the Festool slippery slope was the domino (no regrets there). With Mafell its the P1CC. I think in the end its going to be a mixture of tools that makes the most sense (not brand loyal). I think this is where platform and marketing comes into play. Let's see how it goes.

My need is simple: The darn tool should work (apparently I heard Jeff say that the brushes on the Mafell tools last 25yrs! MT55 is not brushless). The ergonomics of design and convenience matters a lot. When you amortize the cost of the tool over the lifespan - its very marginal (as the saying goes "I am not rich enough to buy cheap"), I'd rather drive a Merc from day 1 knowing that in 20 yrs its cheaper to drive the Merc than a Corolla?

In the end what we do with the tool is more important than the tool itself

.

lshah72414 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 29, 2019, 06:52 PM »

To be clear, The Kss 40 package does come with the flexi rail. I bought one. So far in its limited use I like it alot.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #40 on:** July 29, 2019, 08:38 PM »

Found this at Timberwolf, don’t recall if it’s been mentioned.

QUESTION: What if I recently purchased one of these products at a higher price?

ANSWER: If (1) you purchased one of these five tools in 2019 at a higher price, and (2) you now go ahead and purchase another new Mafell tool by the end of September 2019: Timberwolf Tools will give you $150 off your order. Simply write "$150 Off" in the Order Comments when placing your next online order. Imagine that your next purchase is also one of these five tools, and you will see hundreds of dollars in savings! Call us at 1-800-869-4169 if you have any questions about this promotion and we will build a special quote for you.

thudchkr · « **Reply #41 on:** July 29, 2019, 10:08 PM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on July 29, 2019, 08:38 PM

Found this at Timberwolf, don’t recall if it’s been mentioned.

QUESTION: What if I recently purchased one of these products at a higher price?

ANSWER: If (1) you purchased one of these five tools in 2019 at a higher price, and (2) you now go ahead and purchase another new Mafell tool by the end of September 2019: Timberwolf Tools will give you $150 off your order. Simply write "$150 Off" in the Order Comments when placing your next online order. Imagine that your next purchase is also one of these five tools, and you will see hundreds of dollars in savings! Call us at 1-800-869-4169 if you have any questions about this promotion and we will build a special quote for you.

This applied to me. I purchased the MT55 earlier this year and took this opportunity to pick up the P1 CC. Got an additional $150 on my order. Definitely nice to get that retroactive discount.

ScotF · « **Reply #42 on:** July 30, 2019, 12:18 AM »

I have been a long time Mafell user - I will sum it up this way - Mafell's tools are an everything you need, nothing you don't kind of philosophy. They have limited accessories, but they are becoming more widespread. There are a few places that offer rails squares now and one of those companies now has parallel guides. As these tools become more popular, I am sure that there will be more. I am fortunate to have both Mafell and Festool and have choices. Both companies make great tools and compliment each other nicely. I will be picking up a couple of new tools with this sale before it ends and take advantage of these crazy discounts. Having competitive choices are a very good thing.

PeterJJames13 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 30, 2019, 07:52 AM »

Quote from: thudchkr on July 29, 2019, 10:08 PM

Quote from: Michael Kellough on July 29, 2019, 08:38 PM
Found this at Timberwolf, don’t recall if it’s been mentioned.

QUESTION: What if I recently purchased one of these products at a higher price?

ANSWER: If (1) you purchased one of these five tools in 2019 at a higher price, and (2) you now go ahead and purchase another new Mafell tool by the end of September 2019: Timberwolf Tools will give you $150 off your order. Simply write "$150 Off" in the Order Comments when placing your next online order. Imagine that your next purchase is also one of these five tools, and you will see hundreds of dollars in savings! Call us at 1-800-869-4169 if you have any questions about this promotion and we will build a special quote for you.

This applied to me. I purchased the MT55 earlier this year and took this opportunity to pick up the P1 CC. Got an additional $150 on my order. Definitely nice to get that retroactive discount.

Same here, except I got the DDF40. Can't wait to use it!

JimH2 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 30, 2019, 11:55 AM »

Quote from: PeterJJames13 on July 30, 2019, 07:52 AM

Same here, except I got the DDF40. Can't wait to use it!

You won't be disappointed at what it can. Takes some time to figure out the functionality. Manual is written like the Festool ones so don't expect much.

PeterJJames13 · « **Reply #45 on:** July 30, 2019, 12:57 PM »

Awesome - I think I'm going to get my scraps together and dive in this weekend. Really curious as to how well it aligns and how to plunge vs a domino.

Cheese · « **Reply #46 on:** July 30, 2019, 02:27 PM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on July 29, 2019, 03:10 PM

Yeah I know exactly what you’re saying Cheese, they seem to leave no stone unturned with development and design. My MT55 has some great touches, one that comes to mind is the bevel lock, it only has one lock at the front. Well it does have front and rear but, the rear is operated simultaneously with the front.

Here's a great example, even the Systainer 1 insert is looked at as it's arranged in 4 levels.
Level 1 holds the parallel fence, it's that red piece of plastic on the LH side that's connected to the steel bar.
Level 2 holds the optional blade assortment pack

Level 3 holds the optional tilting base
Level 4 holds the jigsaw and its cord

Because of the layered packaging approach, I can also keep:
9 packages of Festool wood blades
1 package of Festool wavy blades
4 packages of Milwaukee metal blades
A 10" long Bosch blade
An owners manual

All in a SYS 1

ScotF · « **Reply #47 on:** July 31, 2019, 12:11 AM »

My set up is the same as @Cheese. But I also have a couple of the wooden screw clamps for Mafell/Bosch rails in mine too - it is a well organized Systainer.

Kodi Crescent · « **Reply #48 on:** July 31, 2019, 06:49 AM »

Quote from: RKA on July 29, 2019, 10:39 AM

In terms of the nickel and diming and the aftermarket accessories, I think that perception may be a little colored. If you look at it the other way, Mafell may give you a circle cutting jig but the price of the saw is higher. Festool offers it as an added option but the price of the saw is lower. If you don't need it, you have an option to omit with Festool.

Regarding the aftermarket accessories, first, Festool offers a broader variety of tools and other workshop items than Mafell. Their larger presence and service in the US also appeal to a larger audience. It's that audience I believe encourages the cottage industry of aftermarket accessories, not necessarily some inherent weakness. In some instances, Mafell would benefit from these as well, but for all purposes, there aren't enough potential users of the platform to justify the development of the products. Take an 90 degree rail square such as that offered by TSO. Mafell users would benefit from it just as much as Festool users. It's not an inherent weakness in the tool, just a different way to use it.

One more point regarding the KSS40 batteries. It seems they are 94 watt hour batteries vs. 99 watt hour batteries with the MT55 kit. Obviously the capacity difference is marginal, however, there may be other changes to the battery, such as higher discharge rates, that make one battery more suitable for the MT55. I don't know, I just noticed that difference when scrutinizing the pricing differences, but since I'm not in the market for either one, I didn't dig deeper. If you're thinking about going down this road it might be worth asking a few more questions before taking the leap.

I called Timberwolf regarding the KSS40 batteries. They aren't the same as what you'd get with the MT55. They'll work, but other battery types will work better.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the Festool nickel-dining you to death. I think with Festool you have to spend a lot of time building jigs to realize some capability or overcome some shortcoming. I'm not experiencing that with the Mafell, at least not yet.

blaszcsj · « **Reply #49 on:** July 31, 2019, 12:10 PM »

I bit the bullet on a P1cc today after I sold my carvex. I hope it lives up to the hype, difficult to purchase an expensive tool without laying my hands on it first.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #50 on:** July 31, 2019, 03:10 PM »

@Cheese yes, not too shabby at all, it really is an amazing, and well thought out way, of using quite a limited amount of space. They make it look so easy too.
If you saw all the contents of the Systainer sitting on a bench top, it would be hard to accept that it would all fit in, and so neatly too.

What are your thoughts on the P1, I know about five or six owners that all say they really are the best?

ScotF · « **Reply #51 on:** July 31, 2019, 08:22 PM »

The P1CC is a dream saw - it really does work as well as others say and I have owned/currently own many of the top models. I would buy a new one if something happened to mine - plenty smooth and powerful and dead-nuts square. The base has a couple of positions to get close to the front of the foot and you can reverse the blade and cut backwards since there are no guides or rollers.

The only thing not on this saw is a light - but that is not a huge deal to me.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #52 on:** August 01, 2019, 02:29 AM »

@ScotF The lack of illumination at the cutting point, is the only negative comment I’ve ever heard about the saw.
From what I’ve seen, they really are the best.

Cheese · « **Reply #53 on:** August 01, 2019, 12:35 PM »

Quote from: Jiggy Joiner on July 31, 2019, 03:10 PM

What are your thoughts on the P1, I know about five or six owners that all say they really are the best?

It's a slick saw, my only complaint is the lack of on-board LEDs.

I recently used it for putting a full radius on the end of 2 x 4 cedar studs. In that application, you're cutting such a tight radius that you're basically planting the saw in one position and then pivoting the saw around that position. Neither my Trion or Carvex could handle the cut without the blade wandering way off line. The P1 cc completed the cut perfectly and the edge was also square. The cut was done using a Festool wood blade and not the "double wide" Mafell blade.

Here's a recent shot of a radius cut on a 5/4" walnut cutting board. Again using a standard Mafell blade.

Also worth noting is the smoothness of the cut. You can just barely see the vertical blade marks.

Jiggy Joiner · « **Reply #54 on:** August 01, 2019, 03:47 PM »

That is amazing for a jig saw, even a top notch one. The other thing that fascinates me with the saw, is how vertical they cut, and don’t wander like many other makes of jig saws do.

I guess the lack of LED is a niggle, especially for me, a few years back, not a problem but, my eyes need all the extra help now. It wouldn’t stop me buying one though.
Not sure there’s anything close to one but, I guess the Carvex is in second place but, by a fair margin (in my opinion)
To be fair though, I am unashamedly a fan of Mafell.

Roachmill · « **Reply #55 on:** August 01, 2019, 04:57 PM »

Ordered one today and you lot are most certainly to blame. So, thanks, I guess

I started with *blushes* Black & Decker, then DeWalt, a couple of Makitas and a Trion. The only one I got on with was the brushless 18v Makita (with LED!) but it will wonder on occasion. The Trion was used only for the CMS insert (you can't see where it's going freehand) and the B&D was down to beginners ignorance.

I didn't go for the rail package as, impressive as the the ability to straight cut at 90 is, a circular saw is going to win that battle in most cases.

There's what looks to be a great source of blade alternatives on the Mafell users forum here: https://bit.ly/2SXBjoU From a quick skim they've compiled a list of identical blades to the Mafell ones for a lot less than the Mafell branded ones.

Edit: I give up. The link to the Mafell users forum gets automangled by this forum no matter what I do. PM me if you want the link.

Edit #2: Used bit.ly to get the URL working.

ScotF · « **Reply #56 on:** August 02, 2019, 12:15 AM »

Here are a couple of videos I shot using the P1CC when I first got it a few years back.

RKA · « **Reply #57 on:** August 02, 2019, 07:20 AM »

Something puzzles me about the P1CC videos I saw. For solid wood, no zero clearance insert is being used, sometimes on finished pieces. And the results appear to be good?! Are you really seeing that? Or is this Hollywood magic?

Cheese · « **Reply #58 on:** August 02, 2019, 10:04 AM »

Quote from: RKA on August 02, 2019, 07:20 AM

Something puzzles me about the P1CC videos I saw. For solid wood, no zero clearance insert is being used, sometimes on finished pieces. And the results appear to be good?! Are you really seeing that? Or is this Hollywood magic?

Raj, this walnut was cut without an insert using the Mafell W+P2 blade. The blade is recommended for solid wood, particle board, ply & plastics. This cut was direct from the saw, I just laid down the saw and placed the square in position. You can still see the pencil line that I was cutting to.

RKA · « **Reply #59 on:** August 02, 2019, 11:28 AM »

That's crazy! I never use my carvex without a ZC insert unless I'm just rough cutting. And usually I'm not confident enough in the cut quality anyway (as most would be), so I'm backing off curves 1/8-1/4 and use a router table and templates to get the finished product. That adds time and extra steps. Even the dust collection seemed better judging by some of the videos I watched last night. Another area where I've just come to accept it's useless on jigsaws.