Author Topic: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools  (Read 16554 times)

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Offline Cheese

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #150 on: October 05, 2019, 09:55 PM »
Thanks @Cheese. I just registered it and it worked great! Would have never known but for this thread. Hopefully will not need to use it.

ScotF I echo your thoughts, if these tools are designed to be used by the timber framers on commercial sites, why is there only a 1 year guarantee? 

I’ve been a big Milwaukee fan for the last 40+ years. With over 50 Milwaukee tools, I’ve only had 3 warranty issues. 3 years of warranty coverage are the norm with Milwaukee tools. 

So focussing on Mafell, I never quite figured out why an industrial tool designed to be used for 8 hours, 5 days a week would only garner a 1 year warranty. There’s not a lot of pride in that statement.

Consequently, the Mafell 3 year offer resonated with me because at last the manufacturers were not just BS’ing the public about their warranty but actually standing firm and making a commitment.

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Offline Cheese

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #151 on: October 06, 2019, 12:59 AM »

It does work with Festool rails. There's a black Delrin insert held in with 4 screws that needs to be removed first.

I'm curious if the Mafell can be adjusted relative to the Festool splinter strip and if it can also be adjusted for fit on the Festool rail.


So here's the skinny with photos.

A photo of the sole plate of the MT 55 with the black Delrin insert still installed.



A photo of the sole plate with the Delrin insert removed, this will now ride on the Festool rail. The remaining black Delrin piece in the photo is an adjuster in the neutral position to fine tune the fit for use on a Mafell rail or a Festool rail. It's a rather clever twist.



One edge of the adjuster contacts the Festool rail while the other edge of the adjuster contacts the Mafell rail. Obviously one size doesn't fit all. [smile]

Here the adjuster is tweaked slightly, potentially applying pressure to both the Festool rail slot on the bottom and to the Mafell rail slot on the top.



And finally, here's the adjustment screws that will position the Mafell saw closer to or further away from the splinter strip. Again, one size doesn't fit all.

In my situation, I'll probably just adjust the MT 55 to fit the Festool splinter strip so it will work with the TSC & the HKC.

I'll then purchase a Mafell rail to use with the P1cc and the MT 55cc and the Mafell will cut the splinter strip as it is won't to do.

As a side note, the track engagement adjusters on the Mafell are really slick. They're detented so that each adjustment is a positive step and you can go forwards or backwards one small step at a time. Pretty slick.

As noted before, this saw really raises the bar on most every item.

The MT 55 blade spins at 6250 rpm vs the TS 55 blade at 5200 rpm.
The MT 55 blade has a kerf of 1.8 mm vs the TS 55 blade of 2.2 mm.
The MT 55 draws 1620 watts vs the TS 55 at 1200 watts.

The only nit I can pick is that the MT 55 does not have a riving knife. I'm thinking however, that the combination of the increased blade speed, decreased kerf thickness and higher amperage draw will negate the advantage of a riving knife as it will continue to soldier on cutting through the wood when the TS 55 has stalled out. We'll see...time will tell.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 03:44 PM by Cheese »

Offline ScotF

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #152 on: October 06, 2019, 03:06 PM »
I think that the new MT55 is closer to 1600 watts - it got a boost. Timberwolf told me that the it got more power when the Bosch came out to keep it as a differentiated, more top of the line saw. This also has an electronic riving knife - so the electronics detect if the blade is stalling and cuts power. I have done some tests in all manner of hardwood, 8/4 and thinner and have had zero issues so far. This saw never even seems to break a sweat.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #153 on: October 06, 2019, 03:42 PM »
I think that the new MT55 is closer to 1600 watts - it got a boost. Timberwolf told me that the it got more power when the Bosch came out to keep it as a differentiated, more top of the line saw. This also has an electronic riving knife - so the electronics detect if the blade is stalling and cuts power. I have done some tests in all manner of hardwood, 8/4 and thinner and have had zero issues so far. This saw never even seems to break a sweat.

Thanks @ScotF for the heads-up.  [big grin]   I checked mine and it's rated at 13.5 amps at 120v which equates to 1620 watts. That puts it at 1/2 amp greater current draw than either the Kapex or the TS 75. Pretty heady stuff for a 160 mm diameter saw blade.

It's also nice to know about the electronic riving knife because now that just makes sense. I looked at some of the larger Mafell saws and noticed they came with mechanical riving knives. That was a disconnect for me because it didn't make sense that they'd leave it off the MT 55. Now it's starting to come together.  Prove the functionality on the new smaller saw and if it passes muster, incorporate it into the other saws as they get upgraded.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #154 on: October 06, 2019, 04:04 PM »
I read a Mafell white paper that claimed the higher speed of the blade made up for the lack of a physical riding knife.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #155 on: October 06, 2019, 04:13 PM »
Got a chance to use the KSS 40 for the first time today.

“Cuts like a hot knife thru butter”. Read this many times but never said it before. And I was just cutting 5/4 Azek with a brand new blade but it was so smooth I had to double check that I’d set the depth of cut correctly and that I’d actually cut the stock. It had. And there was so little dust escaping that the idea was reinforced that I’d only scored the stock. The CT Sys gets credit there.

The motion of the saw on the rail is also extremely smooth compared to the HKC. Love that it fits (with rail attached) in the Sys 4. The only disappointment is that the battery has to be removed and stowed in the bottom of the Sys first.

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 71
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #156 on: October 06, 2019, 07:16 PM »
@Michael Kellough, what battery are you using? I have the Kss 40 with the 4.0 ah battery, and it stores fine without having to remove the battery. Are you using a 5.0 ah battery, or larger?

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 71
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #157 on: October 06, 2019, 07:24 PM »
I just went and swapped out my 4.0 Ah with an 8.0 Ah battery and it closed also. Albeit, it was tight. Is your saw all the way down?

Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #158 on: October 06, 2019, 07:32 PM »
My KSS-40 stores in the Systainer with the 6.2Ah (112Wh) battery mounted on the saw. It’s a snug fit, but it fits nonetheless.

That being said, if I expand to more Mafell or Metabo cordless tools I may make a separate home for the batteries and chargers in a Sys2, which is how I have my HILTI cordless tools set up (batteries and charger in one Systainer, “bare” tool kits in separate Systainers).
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #159 on: October 06, 2019, 08:46 PM »
Mine came with 5.5amp batteries.

Do you guys have the Flexirail in there too?
With the Flexirail it seems like not enough space but I didn’t push too hard.

Okay, I pushed pretty hard. It’s not going to fit with the Flexirail
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 08:52 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #160 on: October 06, 2019, 09:26 PM »
I have the KSS-40 on its track, Flexi-track, charger, 2x 6.2Ah batteries, edge guide, dust bag, and several blades in the Sys 4. That being said, yeah it’s a snug fit, and I’ll likely separate the batteries and charger into a separate case.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline lshah72414

  • Posts: 71
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #161 on: October 07, 2019, 12:37 AM »
I have the same as Tom, except my batteries are 4.0 ah and only one extra blade. Closes without a problem.

Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #162 on: October 07, 2019, 09:15 AM »

It does work with Festool rails. There's a black Delrin insert held in with 4 screws that needs to be removed first.

I'm curious if the Mafell can be adjusted relative to the Festool splinter strip and if it can also be adjusted for fit on the Festool rail.


So here's the skinny with photos.

A photo of the sole plate of the MT 55 with the black Delrin insert still installed.

(Attachment Link)

A photo of the sole plate with the Delrin insert removed, this will now ride on the Festool rail. The remaining black Delrin piece in the photo is an adjuster in the neutral position to fine tune the fit for use on a Mafell rail or a Festool rail. It's a rather clever twist.

(Attachment Link)

One edge of the adjuster contacts the Festool rail while the other edge of the adjuster contacts the Mafell rail. Obviously one size doesn't fit all. [smile]

Here the adjuster is tweaked slightly, potentially applying pressure to both the Festool rail slot on the bottom and to the Mafell rail slot on the top.

(Attachment Link)

And finally, here's the adjustment screws that will position the Mafell saw closer to or further away from the splinter strip. Again, one size doesn't fit all.

In my situation, I'll probably just adjust the MT 55 to fit the Festool splinter strip so it will work with the TSC & the HKC.

I'll then purchase a Mafell rail to use with the P1cc and the MT 55cc and the Mafell will cut the splinter strip as it is won't to do.

As a side note, the track engagement adjusters on the Mafell are really slick. They're detented so that each adjustment is a positive step and you can go forwards or backwards one small step at a time. Pretty slick.

As noted before, this saw really raises the bar on most every item.

The MT 55 blade spins at 6250 rpm vs the TS 55 blade at 5200 rpm.
The MT 55 blade has a kerf of 1.8 mm vs the TS 55 blade of 2.2 mm.
The MT 55 draws 1620 watts vs the TS 55 at 1200 watts.

The only nit I can pick is that the MT 55 does not have a riving knife. I'm thinking however, that the combination of the increased blade speed, decreased kerf thickness and higher amperage draw will negate the advantage of a riving knife as it will continue to soldier on cutting through the wood when the TS 55 has stalled out. We'll see...time will tell.

Its got an electronic riving knife, if the saw starts to kick it shuts off- I havent tested this on mine, but jeff from timberwolf told me about the feature. I guess it was a very very big deal to get a saw like this in Europe made without a riving knife, so the technology was thoroughly tested by the “warning do not place plastic bag over head and seal the opening- you could suffocate” people.

Offline JimmyFord

  • Posts: 22
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #163 on: October 07, 2019, 09:38 AM »
Anyone who picked up an mt55, I highly recommend trying the mafell rails, they are super nice. I got a 3ft section just to try out, then I quickly ordered 2 more 5.2ft sections. The rail connector is absolutely brilliant, and changing the splinter strip is very slick!! Ive heard the bosch rails are the same, but I cant confirm that as I have only used the mafell branded ones, it looks the same but qc and/or overall build quality could possibly differ.  Anyway, just thought I would share. After I picked up the mt55 a couple months back I heard from a few people I should try the rails as well, glad I did.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 847
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #164 on: October 07, 2019, 09:55 AM »
The rails are very well-designed and worth migrating away from the Festool rails if only for the connector.

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 238
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #165 on: October 07, 2019, 10:22 AM »
Mine came with 5.5amp batteries.

Do you guys have the Flexirail in there too?
With the Flexirail it seems like not enough space but I didn’t push too hard.

Okay, I pushed pretty hard. It’s not going to fit with the Flexirail

Be sure to lower the saw to its lowest plunge depth and check that the crosscut rail is on the insert properly. It should fit with the flex rail.

John

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #166 on: October 07, 2019, 10:26 AM »

Its got an electronic riving knife, if the saw starts to kick it shuts off- I havent tested this on mine, but jeff from timberwolf told me about the feature. I guess it was a very very big deal to get a saw like this in Europe made without a riving knife, so the technology was thoroughly tested...

Found this on jlconline.com. Someone from the FOG contacted Mafell and asked them about the lack of a mechanical riving knife on the MT55. This is Mafell's reply 7 years ago.  [eek]  It seems like their electronic riving knife has some pretty good service history behind it.  [cool]


PRESS RELEASE
Safer sawing without a riving knife

MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw with kick-back protection


In its new MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw, MAFELL has combined the benefits of enhanced active safety, improved handling and enhanced cut quality – without a riving knife. According to the manufacturer, active kick-back protection averts the danger of recoil when the blade enters the work more effectively than a riving knife. In addition, design measures introduced alongside standard EN 60745-2-5, which entered force in 2007, have increased the passive safety of saws that dispense with a riving knife.

Especially when entering the workpiece, the blade of conventional plunge-cut saws can easily jam and thus cause a kick-back. The MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw significantly reduces the likelihood of this effect occurring. Thanks to the CUprex Compact motor driving the sawblade at a maximum of 6,200 rpm, the cutting speed is 20 per cent higher than usual. The teeth of the carbide-tipped sawblade thus remove less stock per revolution, which appreciably reduces the risk of jamming.

The probability of a kick-back arising from sawblade jamming is much lower while sawing is in progress as well. The high speed enables the blade to cut itself free more effectively. Additional safety is afforded by the automatic isolation of the power supply to the motor if the blade jams.

"The active kick-back protection provided by the high speed and automatic power supply interruption offers greater safety than a riving knife, which does not protect against the kick-back effect when the blade enters the work and can be a nuisance for the tradesman," comments Ralf Kohler, head of sales and marketing at MAFELL. Josef Riederer, a tradesman of Unterneuhausen, vindicates the manager's claim, "I feel safe when working with the MT 55 cc."

The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.

Dispensing with a riving knife makes the saw much easier to use. When changing the sawblade, for example, it is no longer necessary to change the riving knife according to the blade thickness and adjust it to suit the blade diameter. This not only accelerates the blade changing operation, but also reduces the workload when working with a variety of materials. Tradesmen are also delighted that the absence of a riving knife protects sensitive surfaces against the risk of scratch marks.
Media contacts:

Volker Simon​Ralf Kohler
Tel.: ​+49 711 248922-169​Tel.: ​+49 7423 812-135
Fax: ​+49 711 342185-32​Fax: ​+49 7423 812-218
E-mail: ​volker.simon@lmpr.de​E-mail: ​ralf.kohler@mafell.de

LässingMüller Public Relations GmbH ​MAFELL AG
Gerokstrasse 8​Beffendorfer Str. 4
70188 Stuttgart​78727 Oberndorf
Germany​Germany
www.lmpr.de​www.mafell.de

Offline Svar

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #167 on: October 07, 2019, 11:02 AM »
I guess it was a very very big deal to get a saw like this in Europe made without a riving knife...
Not at all. In Europe smaller circular saws up to 210 mm typically don't have riving knives.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 11:06 AM by Svar »

Offline Tom Gensmer

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  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #168 on: October 07, 2019, 12:00 PM »
The electronic rising knife is great. I’ve only activated it a couple times, but it’s interesting to hear the saw just start to bog down, then the blade just slams to a stop, zero kick-back. Nifty.
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Offline Svar

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #169 on: October 07, 2019, 12:56 PM »
The electronic rising knife is great. I’ve only activated it a couple times, but it’s interesting to hear the saw just start to bog down, then the blade just slams to a stop, zero kick-back. Nifty.
I think mechanical riving knife has benefits. In a pinching situation it actually holds the kerf open and prevents the blade from gouging the martial too deep. Riving knife is thicker than blade plate, so it starts working before the blade is pinched and you can keep cutting instead of having the saw stalled.

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 293
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #170 on: October 07, 2019, 04:01 PM »
Would you consider it a replacement for the 75 as well?  Besides the extra cut capacity would you be losing out on anything?

Offline Blues

  • Posts: 26
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #171 on: October 07, 2019, 04:16 PM »
Nothing. It's a joy to use mt55. I have not used my ts75 since. It's going on Ebay soon.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 596
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #172 on: October 07, 2019, 10:43 PM »

The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.


Hang on, are they saying on a MT 55 if the saw experiences kickback the blade retracts? De-plunges?  That sounds saw stop like.  I wasn't aware of this going on?

If this was a great tech (electronic riving knife) then why doesn't the Erika have it?  I don't think any of it hurts, but it does ask the question "Why not both?" 

Electronic stuff is nice, but you know the mechanical knife will be there, if you leave it off, it's your own fault, not the fault of some circuit inside.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1869
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #173 on: October 07, 2019, 10:57 PM »

The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.
Hang on, are they saying on a MT 55 if the saw experiences kickback the blade retracts? De-plunges?  That sounds saw stop like.  I wasn't aware of this going on?
Let's not confuse the matter. There is NO active retraction mechanism on MT55. It just has to unplunge in certain amount of time when you let it go. I.e. the spring has to be of certain stiffness. Knifless Bosch and Makita have to comply with the same standard.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #174 on: October 07, 2019, 11:54 PM »
Hang on, are they saying on a MT 55 if the saw experiences kickback the blade retracts? De-plunges?  That sounds saw stop like.  I wasn't aware of this going on?

I think it's best to reflect what @Tom Gensmer stated. He has first hand experience with the Mafell while the rest of us are still plucking the bubble wrap from inside the Systainer.  [smile]

It appears there's no retraction of the blade, but rather just a stoppage of the blade. That works for me...more importantly there appears to be at least 7 years of Mafell MT 55 production in the market place to vouch for its effectiveness or its ineffectiveness.

However, if the later was a reality, I think you'd hear about it on the internet or through law suits.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2681
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #175 on: October 08, 2019, 01:04 AM »
The electronics stop the blade and since it is a plunge saw (like all other plunge saws) the blade goes back in the housing if an issue.

This could replace a TS75 except for depth of cut.

Bosch rails are identical to Mafell - just cheaper and blue splinter guard and Bosch branding vs. red and Mafell branding.

Hopefully TSO will come out with an adapter for the rail square to work with Mafell rails. 

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #176 on: October 08, 2019, 03:42 AM »
There is no retraction of the blade with the electronic cut out, well at least not on my MT55 (corded) but, I bought it a fair while back, not sure about the very latest models but, I’m almost certain they feature just the cut out. Which in my opinion, is all that’s needed.

My cordless Makita also has the same, or very similar feature. When using either of these saws, I’ve experienced this, it is literally an instant stop to the motor. Things that trigger it are as you’d expect, like ripping pressure treated timber that’s still wet, when the kerf tightens from warped timber etc, and when plunge cutting too fast.
To anybody thinking about Mafell rails, I would recommend them. When I bought my MT55 I bought a kit that included two rails. Using Festool rails is fine but, using the Mafell rails feels like the saw is almost gliding on air.

As the majority of our mobile and site tools are cordless, I am hankering for the cordless MT55 but, would like a side by side power comparison with my Makita. Bearing in mind the Mafell is 18 volt and the Makita is 36 volt. The Makita is very powerful, so I obviously don’t want to step back in the power dept. I don’t know anybody that has both saws for a comparison though.

My rarely used almost mint conditioned TS55 was sold a while ago, so I have a bit of stake money burning a hole in my pocket.  [wink]

Offline Tom Gensmer

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  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #177 on: October 08, 2019, 08:58 AM »
As stated above, when the MT-55cc experiences a binding situation the blade just stops (fast!!), but there is no automatic blade retraction.
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Offline JimH2

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Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #178 on: October 08, 2019, 11:45 AM »
The electronics stop the blade and since it is a plunge saw (like all other plunge saws) the blade goes back in the housing if an issue.

This could replace a TS75 except for depth of cut.

Bosch rails are identical to Mafell - just cheaper and blue splinter guard and Bosch branding vs. red and Mafell branding.

Hopefully TSO will come out with an adapter for the rail square to work with Mafell rails.

You don't need a rail square with the Mafell rails as they are self-aligning due to a different rail profile and rail connector design.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: Mafell on sale by Timber Wolf tools
« Reply #179 on: October 08, 2019, 12:14 PM »
Hopefully TSO will come out with an adapter for the rail square to work with Mafell rails.

You don't need a rail square with the Mafell rails as they are self-aligning due to a different rail profile and rail connector design.
[/quote]

I think ScotF was referring to this item...