Author Topic: Mafell edgebander and Europe power  (Read 1609 times)

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Offline afish

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Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« on: August 05, 2022, 11:40 AM »
So I have been eyeing the mafell edgbander for awhile now but sent Timberwolf a email yesterday and was told that it will not work here do to the difference in our power and is unavailble. :(  I have zero experience with European power but is there some type of converter or transformer I could use that would power it here in the states?  I'm sure the edge bander has all types of circuitry that might be picky so it might not be that simple. I think its 230v 50hz.   

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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 810
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2022, 06:42 PM »
There are absolutely step-up transformers that will convert our (North America) 120V 60Hz power to 240V 60Hz. That being said, if Timberwolf is saying the machine won't run well, I'm inclined to take them at their word. The owner has a history with electronics, and if they're willing to pass on a sale, I'd take them seriously. As you indicate, it may be the 50hz electronics not playing nice with 60hz, or is might be an amperage issue....
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Offline afish

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Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2022, 08:10 PM »
he did mention the 50hz vs 60hz as an issue.  That really sucks if there is no way to make it work

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 250
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2022, 08:25 PM »
If it is available in 240V three phase then it can be run via a Variable Frequency Drive at 50hz. I guess would void all warranty if that approach is taken.

Offline guybo

  • Posts: 382
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2022, 08:35 PM »
50hz mtrs running@60hz run about 20% faster may not be good for the edgebander for other tools not so much faster also means cooler

Offline rocky100370

  • Posts: 70
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2022, 07:07 AM »
Not to get off the subject here but I have a Festool TKS 80 that I run here on US power. No problems even after everyone said it would not work. She's been going strong for over 2 years. Just my 2 cents.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1153
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2022, 03:45 PM »
If it’s a universal motor then you should be good to go. I have several UK 110 volt tools that work perfectly and I just changed the plug on the cord to make it work. I have the UK and US versions of one saw and there is no noticeable difference between the two in terms of power. I have not opened either of them but I suspect the motors are identical.

I have not tried any 220v UK tools but am certain they will work on 240v US. Non-universal motors do not have this flexibility.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2022, 04:11 PM »
I did a little more digging and downloaded the manual and now Im even more confused.  see pick below.  it says 230v 50/60hz however I cant read any of it... but that tells me 50 to (or) 60hz so seems like it should work, no?  To be completely honest I haven't measured the voltage here some call it 220 and some 240 either way is +- 10 volts really going to effect it.  Almost seems like I could install a new plug end and simply plug it in. What am I missing?

Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 1019
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2022, 06:42 PM »
Your only problem is supplying the 32a after converting your 110v to 230v by transformer (big $$$).

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 250
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2022, 07:56 PM »
My understanding of 230V supply in the US is that it can be done without a transformer, is that not correct? In the case of motors at either 50 or 60hz the difference is about 2850rpm to 3450rpm. 

Online Cheese

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Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2022, 08:13 AM »
My understanding of 230V supply in the US is that it can be done without a transformer, is that not correct? In the case of motors at either 50 or 60hz the difference is about 2850rpm to 3450rpm.

The US power grid supplies 240 v to the service panel in the house. There, it's broken into 2 legs of 120 v each for lighting & outlets. So, 240 v is always available in the service panel if a homeowner needs it for high amperage draw appliances. Think air-conditioning, clothes dryer, water heater, stove/oven and power tools.  [smile]

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2022, 09:26 AM »
Yes, that was my point. So can a 230v European device be run off our 240 volt grid "if" said device is rated for both 50 and 60hz. is the question?  Or is the extra 10 volts going to make it explode or melt down.  Im no electrical engineer but would think there is some =/- involved.  I havent stuck a meter in one of my 240v outlets but I would expect there is some =/- there as well.  Even if the 240 is to much for a 230 rated device it would seem like it would be cheaper easier to step down 240 to 230 instead of trying to step up from 120 to 230. What type of device is needed to reduce 240 to 230 and it looks like the manual rates it at 16amps

Online Cheese

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Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2022, 09:41 AM »
In North America the power grid voltage levels of 220...230...& 240 volts are all considered to be the same. It's really a local issue of voltage regulation as some localities do a better job than others. In the Twin Cities the individual legs range from 118 v to 120 v or 236-240 volts.

The big thing is the 50 or 60 Hz rating.

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 367
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2022, 10:00 AM »
What type of device is needed to reduce 240 to 230 and it looks like the manual rates it at 16amps
A 5kVA Variac, or similar transformer, will do what you describe.  However, it will not change the line frequency.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/TDGC-5KVA-single-phase-220v-240v_1700000814880.html

Online mino

  • Posts: 1027
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2022, 10:15 AM »
The only way to get 50Hz form a 60Hz supply is a full conversion - aka going over a DC middle-phase.

The easiest would be for someone with a modular solar battery system in the house. Then you can just hook up an optional 230V/50Hz power inverter, sideways to any US voltage inverter and take the power from the DC source.

Though the issue there is to find an inverter like that is compliant with US regulations .. and does not cost an arm and a leg. So possibly feasible for home use, say having a Victron 3000W inverter with a couple sockets wired to it using european plugs.

Not much applicable for anything where insurance considerations come to play I guess ...
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2022, 12:49 PM »
Yes but looking at the photo I posted of the manual it says 230v 50/60hz so that seems like they are saying it works on either 50 or 60hz.. So, the 50/60hz issue is a non issue. no?  am I missing something?  the only issue I see is the voltage and that also seems like a non issue since we are only talking +- 5-10 volts I cant imagine they have no tolerance for voltage since like cheese pointed out its rare that 240v its exactly 240v 100% of the time in 100% of all areas of the country.  Maybe just run the 240v through a few hundred feet of extra wire to get some voltage drop  [unsure]

Offline Peter Kelly

  • Posts: 131
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2022, 12:57 PM »
Model HIT-M 103 SA will run on either 50 hz or 60 hz, see page 7 of the below-linked manual under "Spannung" (voltage).

https://produkte.mafell.de/usa/edge/zero-joint-edge-bander/zero-joint-edge-bander-hit-m-103-sa
https://produkte.mafell.de/usa/media/pdf/bd/75/ce/hitm_V7_de.pdf

I've got a retailer overseas that will probably ship one of these to the US, PM me if you're interested.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2022, 02:13 PM »
Im going to need to discuss the issue on why mafell says or thinks it wont work, or just not made available here first.  I am planning on emailing them next week.  I had sent Kluge an email thursday night asking them but havent heard anything back yet.  Its not a small purchase for me so I would really like to hear first hand what the issue is and a warranty would be nice too on something around 10k There is so little info/reviews out there.  I would really like to see one first hand to see "how" good the joint looks and if its worth the extra 10k.  Im thinking it would be but its a pretty big leap of faith since I have only seen photos of "zero joint" edgebanding and never in person.  Most shops dont even have a zero joint edgebander that I know of since they are in the 6 figure range.

@Crazyraceguy does your shop have a zero joint bander? or is it EVA/PUR Im not talking about your portable one but the stationary/main one.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 9868
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2022, 02:31 PM »
There is an ANSI or NEMA standard that specifies incoming voltage on each leg must be 120 v ±5%. So 114-126 v for a single leg or 228-252 v for combined legs.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1649
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2022, 07:32 PM »
Im going to need to discuss the issue on why mafell says or thinks it wont work, or just not made available here first.  I am planning on emailing them next week.  I had sent Kluge an email thursday night asking them but havent heard anything back yet.  Its not a small purchase for me so I would really like to hear first hand what the issue is and a warranty would be nice too on something around 10k There is so little info/reviews out there.  I would really like to see one first hand to see "how" good the joint looks and if its worth the extra 10k.  Im thinking it would be but its a pretty big leap of faith since I have only seen photos of "zero joint" edgebanding and never in person.  Most shops dont even have a zero joint edgebander that I know of since they are in the 6 figure range.

@Crazyraceguy does your shop have a zero joint bander? or is it EVA/PUR Im not talking about your portable one but the stationary/main one.
@afish
The main one is a Homag Looptec-300. There has been talk about replacing it though. The one we have has this crazy design for the trimming heads. They use the same cutter for the normal straight cut that morphs into the 3mm round-over. It's an overly complex mechanism that has been changed on newer models. It's a spring-loaded sliding arrangement that doesn't always return correctly. Ours had been replaced several times, to no avail. The auto-return is fantastic though, makes it into a one-man job. Something like that would have never fit in our old building though, it takes a lot of space.
I have no experience with zero-joint at all. I've heard of it and seen a few pics. Like you though, never seen one in person.
There is also a smaller Brandt unit in the countertop department, for edging backsplashes. It is one of the very few things that was purchased used.
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Online mino

  • Posts: 1027
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2022, 07:55 PM »
Im going to need to discuss the issue on why mafell says or thinks it wont work, or just not made available here first.  I am planning on emailing them next week.  I had sent Kluge an email thursday night asking them but havent heard anything back yet.  Its not a small purchase for me so I would really like to hear first hand what the issue is and a warranty would be nice too on something around 10k There is so little info/reviews out there.  I would really like to see one first hand to see "how" good the joint looks and if its worth the extra 10k.  Im thinking it would be but its a pretty big leap of faith since I have only seen photos of "zero joint" edgebanding and never in person.  Most shops dont even have a zero joint edgebander that I know of since they are in the 6 figure range.

@Crazyraceguy does your shop have a zero joint bander? or is it EVA/PUR Im not talking about your portable one but the stationary/main one.
Given the costs involved, are you not thinking of taking a vacation in Europe, with part of it being "work vacation" in Germany ?

Just saying, when talking of a $10k expense, the tickets e.g. Dallas to Frankfurt and back, go $600 or so for one which might not be such a biggie if associated with such an outlay ...

E.g. Rome is just an hour trip by plane, Zurich is just over the corner etc. etc. I can imagine a very nice vacation this way. Even for two it would not break the bank ...
;)
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1321
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2022, 08:26 PM »
I pretty much hate flying. Going from florida to bahamas is about my max. Even that I would go by boat if I could.  I do have a good friend in bulgaria so he would send me one if asked.   

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 256
Re: Mafell edgebander and Europe power
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2022, 09:02 PM »
Not doubting Timberwolf's expertise, but I'd get a second opinion from Tobias, at 'Elektrowerkzeug', a major retailer of Mafell, Festool, Fein etc, etc, etc in Germany. He's the man.