Author Topic: Input on a potential purchase of a Dust Extractor (Processors) Questions?  (Read 8380 times)

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Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 271
I agree with Bill Pentz, 15" is the minimum, but if it was a 3 phase motor perhaps a 14"  driven at 70hz but there is a noise penalty the faster the motor spins. I was at a dust seminar the other day and someone commented on the air noise passing through the ducting and unfortunately that is something that happens when a lot of air is moving through the duct and is always a surprise to people who have used low capacity dust extractors. I think if it is noisy it is doing the job but that is just my view. The Australian dust forum is full of this sort of stuff and well worth a visit. It has been proven with facts and figures what works and what does not and I don't know of anywhere else where true R&D has been done on hobby workshop dust extraction. There you will read about the difficulties of measuring air flow in a duct as the airflow varies across the duct, slow outside and faster in the middle and that is what makes it so difficult to measure. The person doing this stuff is a physics professor and he does know what he is talking about.   

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Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 49
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Yes both models from Oneida have 15” impeller on the V3000 and also the gorilla pro.

Offline cubevandude

  • Posts: 116
I am just reaching out to inquire on thoughts and opinions with dust extractors. I understand everyone has there bias towards a brand such as onieda, powermatic, felder. I’m personally looking at the Harvey G700 and for a few reasons:
   

If money restraints are an issue and you are not recirculating the are back into the shop for heating purposes, I would consider blowing the dust outside into a bin.  This solves a lot of problems inside the shop concerning dust.

Offline JonnyBBravo

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@cubevandude thank you for your feedback. It’s not that money is a restraint. The issue is in my personal life my spouses father recently told us he has to undergo emergency surgery 🧠. So given the very recent news I’m just taking the time to do more thinking of which model or product etc. venting outside isn’t an option. My main things are just wanting feedback from other woodworkers that have whatever type of dust collector model. So that’s what is presently on my plate with the purchasing decisions. But please share what your using and what you like or dislike or what you wish or want to purchase in the future. There’s no one size fits all approach it’s just sharing information that helps a fellow woodworker.

Offline Mini Me

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Just to add to my remarks above, the idea of the Clearvue design is that a long cone cyclone minimises the dust that the filters have to capture. A small detail maybe but an important one if recirculating through filters. CV reckon on a separation figure of at least 99% which a short cone cannot match.

Offline JonnyBBravo

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Just to add to my remarks above, the idea of the Clearvue design is that a long cone cyclone minimises the dust that the filters have to capture. A small detail maybe but an important one if recirculating through filters. CV reckon on a separation figure of at least 99% which a short cone cannot match.

@Mini Me Thanks for your comments. Yes the models I’m looking at are long come styles not short cones like a Jet JDC model.

Offline etds4u

  • Posts: 16
@JonnyBBravo you are definitely heading down the right path based on my experience with different dust collectors. I originally had a single-stage Jet 'dust spreader', which I replaced with an earlier version of the Oneida V3000, which performed exceptionally but was very loud in my basement shop. I replaced the Oneida with a Laguna Pflux 3Hp which was a huge disappointment; just as loud as the Oneida but terrible performance. The filter clogged constantly on the Laguna, even with the Laguna 'design improvement' of adding a restriction plate to the bottom of the cyclone. Sold the Laguna and replaced it with my current hybrid configuration that meets all my needs: Harvey G700 with a 30 gallon Oneida dust deputy separator installed ahead of the G700 inlet. Oneida engineers definitely know how to design an efficient cyclone, so almost nothing makes it to my G700, which also addresses the fear of debris hitting the impeller. As others have stated, don't believe the manufactures quoted numbers, avoid any of the 'short cyclone' designs, and Laguna should stick to making bandsaws (I love mine), and leave dust collector design to companies dedicated to dust collection.

Offline JonnyBBravo

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@etds4u Thank you for your response. Yes the Harvey G700 is a sleek looking machine. My only concern would be how the CFM is affected by the dust deputy at the tool. I know that cyclones create disturbance in the path of the flow and though it adds great separation it just bogs the cfm down a little. Not sure if you did any anemometer testing. But if you would like to share a picture it would be much obliged 🍻👍🙏.

I’m not bias to a specific brand but just wanting to avoid what you’ve personally experienced. 

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 271
A cyclone works by being inefficient and slowing down the airflow which then requires extra capacity in the motor and impeller design. It basically has to move more air than would be required if the cyclone was not in the system because it slows the air going through the cyclone. Unfortunately capturing visible debris does not guarantee the invisible dust has been removed which is the aim of DUST EXTRACTION and if after spending a lot of money installing a system it would be a poor investment. This goes without saying but it happens.

I was talking to my Oncologist during my yearly check up and telling him about the dust education program we have begun and he congratulated me because he is seeing too many cases of cancer caused by dusty work environments. Unless a monitoring system is in place the result of an installation is difficult to assess but the cleanliness is obvious of course and tools don't get lost in the mess! 


Offline JonnyBBravo

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So Jason Bents or Bents woodworking just posted a video about filter changes on the G700. It’s a rather complicated process given the video not undoable just time consuming and requires new silicone seals to be made. But the real kicker per the comments by a viewer was how often the filters have to be replaced per the manual according to Bents it’s every 6 months.Harvey G700 Filter Change - Bents Woodworking

I am just sharing information I’ve found or watched. If you own a G700 feel free to share your thoughts or experiences with regards to your machine etc. Bents Woodworking also plans to share a video next week Thursday per comments on the video to make a single filter collection point for the self cleaning feature as I assume next level carpentry has done.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 10:36 AM by JonnyBBravo »

Offline etds4u

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I've been running my G700 over the past year (with Oneida 6" diameter Super Dust Deputy installed ahead of inlet), and have observed almost zero change in the on-board G700 pressure gauge during this time (I completed a filter cleaning cycle recently, but it made very little difference). I ran over 2000 square feet of white oak flooring thru my 22" drum sander during this time period, which would have likely clogged the filters multiple times without the pre-separator. I'm not a fan of using the built-in flappers to mechanically agitate the internal surfaces of the G700 filters, since I believe this impacts the longevity and effectiveness of the filters. The minimal performance impact of the pre-separator is more than offset with the benefits of constant performance over time, improved filter life, and impeller protection. Note that I use my G700 with one machine at a time (22" drum sander, 16" jointer/planer, or SawStop ICS), so the G700 is more than adequate for my basement shop.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 02:29 PM by etds4u »

Offline Mini Me

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Interesting, having to add a cyclone to the inlet to prevent the filters loading up excessively. While it will not apply to the US (in the most part) can the filters be removed and the exhaust vented to atmosphere? In Oz very few ducted systems use filters, in fact just about none.

Offline JonnyBBravo

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So very recently I had the opportunity to see a Harvey G700 in operation. Honestly nothing you’ll see in videos does this tool justice. It’s darn quite at the low setting, I would compare this too the sound of a box fan and this is mainly due to the air moving over the ripples In the hose. I have video of both high and low in operation but not sure on how I can upload the videos directly from my phone. The high setting is obviously louder but I would go out on a whim to say that my Sawstop is louder just rubbing. Again it’s mainly due to the air moving over the ripples in the hose. But even my video does not do the harvey justice. It is truly that quiet.

I have not moved forward because my father-in-law just had brain surgery. But just sharing information that recently came about as I want to go look at some tools this gentleman was selling. And he gladly showed me his new Harvey G 700. Just sharing this information.

I would also concur on the flapper comment. Dr. adaptation would eventually overtime a erode the fiber of the filter materials. It is clearly honestly better to use compressed air at a specific psi. But this is just my opinion based on my research of information. Common sense with basically told us that using air is less likely to damage the filter versus something physically rubbing against the fabric material. But I digress.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 08:11 PM by JonnyBBravo »

Offline Mini Me

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One last comment, do you want less noise or good at the tool fine dust extraction because unfortunately you can't have both. The noise the DE makes no matter how high that is is always masked by the machine being used so I fail to see the problem in that regard.

I have a question not pertinent to the topic, has anyone tried to order a Clearvue lately and if so what is the availability, are there long lead times?

Offline dwillis

  • Posts: 122
I've been using a Harvey 700 since mid 2021 and have been satisfied with it's performance. Since my setting up my shop is still in progress I'm not going to be critical of the hose arrangement until the setup is finalized. As noted it's quiet, and effectively captures dust from my Harvey table saw and Hammer A3-31, the latter putting out large volumes of chips. Dust collection is more effective from the A3-31 than the table saw, but that's more a matter of how each dust collection on machine is configured, not the 700. It's easy to use, is mobile, and sounds an alarm when the primary bag is full. Visible in the photo is a prop under the dust port to support the weight of the three hoses and prevent the factory supplied (clear) dust port adapter from falling off.

340144-0
Remember that the only scientist to walk on the moon was a geologist.  Dr. Harrison Schmitt - Apollo 17 - Valley of Taurus-Littrow - 11 to 17 December 1972.

Offline JonnyBBravo

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@dwillis I appreciate the feedback. Has you experienced any issues or gripes since you’ve been an owner? I’m just trying to grasp long term ownership benefits that aren’t really available to understand. Anything you contribute to the discussion is much appreciated.

Offline dwillis

  • Posts: 122
I haven't had any issues or complaints since I've bought the 700. As I mentioned earlier I don't have the machine set up in it's final location, thus the ducts are temporary. One observation, and this is probably unique to each user, is the geometry of how the ducts will be run from the dust collector to the tools. Because the dust enters the 700 on the front of the machine, instead of on top like a "normal" cyclone arrangement, it's going to take some head scratching how to efficiently route the ducts. More than likely the 700 will reside under a cabinet and countertop that's placed against the wall, so some of the countertop will be partially blocked by either a duct coming straight from the 700, or going vertical with an elbow. But each shop is configured differently.
Remember that the only scientist to walk on the moon was a geologist.  Dr. Harrison Schmitt - Apollo 17 - Valley of Taurus-Littrow - 11 to 17 December 1972.

Offline JonnyBBravo

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@dwillis thank you. Yes agreed the only thing I could think of is to either place the unit to you could angle the run up a wall in a diagonal. Our secondly just plumb the main run near the unit and connect with a short run of flex or metal ducting to the main run. But yes everyone’s configurations shall or will be different on the basis of budget, space, and preferences based on research.