Author Topic: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector  (Read 1123 times)

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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 854
Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« on: November 08, 2021, 03:57 PM »
I have heard nothing about this system. 

Unlike the Lamello P2, this is really designed for production use (think CNC milling machines).  The hardware is cheaper.  And both the clamping pressure and shear strenth are higher than other Lamello systems.

And Axminster (UK) sells a template that allows you to bypass the CNC and use a drill. 

Note:  I  went to Axminster's site and I am not finding their template.  This other company is showing one. 

This system is cheaper to get into and cheaper to use.  I am wondering about the negatives. 

https://www.csaw.com/lamello/cabineo/



Here is the drilling fixture that Axminster was showing, but this time it is from another company.  They also show a video.

https://www.a32z.com/en/producto/cabineo-jig/

This drilling device costs $475.00 and can work with a drill press or a hand drill. 





« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 04:28 PM by Packard »

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Offline afish

  • Posts: 741
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2021, 05:00 PM »
It really comes down to where you will be using the KD hardware and the project.  I dont think there is a one size fits all KD fitting and there are a lot of determining factors when choosing. There is probably close to a dozen different KD fittings that are similar to the cabineo.  I would only consider such a fastener if it would never be seen when a door is open etc.  They all tend to cheapen the look and make it feel like some cheap Ikea junk to me.  A small hole is bad enough and if when I need that I will do my best to hide that too.  Some big plastic fantastic connector is a no go for me.   

Offline GregorHochschild

  • Posts: 29
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2021, 05:06 PM »
IMO these are pretty different systems. Here are a couple of observations:

- P-system is an (almost) invisible joint, Cabineo is not. That is a big different.
- P-system is designed to work with CNC as well but the requirements are much higher. Cabineo works with 3-axis cnc, P-system does not (it needs 4 or 5, not sure).
- However, P-system with zeta P2 works pretty well with 3-axis cnc as well by creating indexing holes with the CNC and then using your zeta p2 to create the p-slot. Here are the positioning pins that gets attached to the zeta (there is a different attachment to create slots at the edge): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QWFLJJX
- The P-system (and zeta P2) has much more applications. These applications include miter joints and other things for cabinet assembly and many other applications unrelated to cabinets.

Personally, I think Cabineo is great if you use a 3-axis CNC, most of your work is cabinets with 90 degree angles and you can accept that the connectors are visible. The jig might be good for occupational use but not production. Not sure about the drilling fixture. P-system has much more applications.

Offline jarbroen

  • Posts: 394
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2021, 10:49 AM »
One of the Shaper Origin demonstrations used the Cabineo.
Definitely not high production, but definitely has its place for certain projects.

I use the Domino connector fairly often on projects because of the convenience. I could see using the Cabineo if I wanted a similar connection at a lower cost per piece. Definitely at the expense of time if using the Shaper Origin though.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2021, 04:02 PM »
I use the Zeta P2 more as an assembly aid for difficult to clamp situations. Along with a few Dominos, in most cases, these are usually permanent connections. Most of the time I glue and attach them myself, though there are cases where this doesn't happen until the reassembly during install.
For me they only need to "knock down" once, if ever, but remain invisible.
CSX
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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 854
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2021, 08:43 AM »
I ended up getting Hettich's connectors for several reasons.

https://www.homedecorhardware.com/hf-262-11-117.html

1.  I am currently using 8mm dowels and this system is based on 8mm dowel holes
2.  Only $115.00 in equipment required (drilling jig)
3.  The fasteners are just $0.64 each

On the downside, the connectors are not structural at all.  They are meant to be clamping elements only.

The kit arrived last night.  The instructions were the picture of simplicity:  "Figure it out yourself".  It only took a few minutes of study to figure it out.  But instructions would have been nice.

Issues:

1.  I don't have a 8mm drill bit that is long enough to drill for the connectors.  I ordered one last night and it should arrive today.  (The drill bushing  in the jig is 2" long which seems too long for this application.)
2.  My 8mm dowels are a tight fit in the holes and require some pounding to drive in.  I don't imagine the connectors will generate enough force to deal with that.  I ordered some 5/16" dowels which are 0.003" smaller and should work better.  That should arrive today also.

Observations so far:  The gripping mechanism of the connector is surprisingly strong. 

The Allen screw that actuates the mechanism is just 3mm, so the 6mm cross drill hole seems too large to me.  I am going to experiment with smaller holes.

In most instances, I will be able to hide the holes (for lower cabinets all holes will be hidden; for upper cabinets the upper holes are hidden and I generally put a finish molding on the bottom that will hide the bottom holes too.)

I am disappointed that I could not assemble anything last night, but I figure it is going to feature some sort of learning curve. 

In the end I invested $275.00 for the connectors (200) and the jig.   And another $8.00 for two longer 8mm drill bits, plus $7.00 for 100 pieces of 5/16" dowels.

I am pretty sure I can make this work.  I will report after I have finished with my experiments.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1032
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2021, 04:09 PM »
The Allen screw that actuates the mechanism is just 3mm, so the 6mm cross drill hole seems too large to me.  I am going to experiment with smaller holes.

My guess is that the extra space is for a little bit of adjustment as well as to give the grub screw room to rotate without binding on the material if you need to back the grub screw out all the way and replace it.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 854
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2021, 04:21 PM »
I am thinking of trying a much smaller hole.  Something about 0.140" diameter.  To keep the connector in place I think I would just take a 3mm Allen wrench and use it to cross-pin the connector.  A small piece of masking tape would keep the wrench engaged to the Allen screw. 

I have a bunch of those Allen wrenches coming in--just 18¢ each in quantity.  Mostly I will be able to hide the holes.  But where they show, I think a hole that small would not be objectionable.  After all, we are used to all those 5mm holes for the shelf pins. 

I will report after I have made a couple of samples.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 741
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2021, 05:07 PM »
yes, thats what I mentioned in one of my posts about these somewhere.  I drill a much smaller hole for the allen wrench than what they say.  I dont remember what size off the top of my head. Knowing me I just slapped some calipers on the 3mm allen wrench and spun it until I read the max diameter of the allen wrench and went one size over for the drill bit.  You can get away with a very small hole.  I never bought the jig they sell I just set a combination square and used that to mark the cross hole.  I havent used one in a long while but they work good and do provide some pulling force. I dont remember having any tightness issues on the 8mm hole either. 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5305
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2021, 07:42 PM »
To minimize the size of the hole for the hex keu=y you have to make sure the depth of the hole in the other piece is perfect.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 741
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2021, 08:01 PM »
yes and no the connector does have a small lip that only lets it go in the proper depth.  However,  im sure that lip could be easily overcome by getting too happy with a hammer. So best practice would be to use a depth stop on the 8mm drill but I can say I did not.  I drill mine with the DDF40 so I just stuck the bit in and gave it a little extra.  Im pretty good eyeballing stuff but can guarantee they were not perfect 45mm deep each one.   

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 854
Re: Lamello's Cabineo panel connector
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2021, 10:43 AM »
I assembled some accessories along with the connectors. 

My dowel fixture is for 8mm holes 32mm on center. 

The 8mm dowels that I have require that they be pounded into the holes.  They are very tight.

I ordered some 5/16" dowels which are .003" smaller in diameter.  They still require that they be pressed into the holes, but no hammer is required. 

I ordered a quantity of 3mm Allen wrenches, which I can use to "cross pin" the connectors in position and it allows the use of a 0.130" diameter hole.  The closest I have is 0.156" diameter (5/32") and it seems small enough.  The closest I can find is a #29 drill bit which is 0.136".

I now have an 8mm  x 8" drill bit and collar so I can accurately drill the connector holes and cross drill holes using the drill gage that came with the connectors.  My 4½ long drills were too short to use with this drilling fixture.

I also needed a way to index the drill gage to the dowel holes I drilled with the dowel jig.  I got a 8" long stainless steel 8mm dowel for that purpose. 

The 5/16" dowels have enough friction that they cannot fall out of the holes.   They are loose enough for the connectors to pull the panels together. When I wet the dowels they grow to a really tight fit, so I am confident that the dowels are adequate. 

I will build a test cabinet this weekend.  I will report my experience.