Author Topic: Jointers  (Read 7091 times)

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Offline DynaGlide

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Jointers
« on: May 26, 2022, 07:27 AM »
I know prices are rising with every industry, but my gosh are jointers expensive now versus just a few years ago. For reference, a popular planer like the DW735 planer is up a few hundred but routinely dips down to near original MSRP with sales on Black Friday.

I'm looking at a 6" jointer and if I want a brand like Grizzly I'm minimum a grand or more with freight. Jet/Powermatic are in the 1500 and up range. I could get a Ridgid and I'm sure it would be more than fine but it sits at $799 without a mobile base and I'd like to have a cabinet model.

Craigslist/FB Marketplace are not turning up anything.

Is this somewhat a result of increased demand of new woodworkers the past two years? Or is it more isolated to the bigger brands like Jet/Powermatic/Laguna? Was also researching bandsaws and the Lagunas are up several hundred in the last 2 years alone.

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Online Richard/RMW

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2022, 07:50 AM »
My day job is related to industrial logistics, so I tend to read about this more than casually. I'd say that a joiner has all the strikes against it right now. Imported from Asia, large/heavy relative to its value, and has to ship to you via freight.

The last leg is the most impactfull, in the time it takes that truck/driver to make the delivery to you they could have moved and entire truckload of iPhones to a commercial destination.

Or I could be all wet.   [scratch chin]

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline guybo

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2022, 07:58 AM »
Hi, my neighbor has one of these on a dewalt stand.

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2022, 08:11 AM »
One option is to use your thickness planer (with a sled) to do the flattening job of the jointer, and a table saw or track saw to handle the edge cuts. It'll save you both space and money at the expense of additional setup time.

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2022, 08:16 AM »
@ChuckS That was my original plan. However it just seems like a pain unless you're forced to do it. Then you have to account for snipe as well.

My neighbor has an older Jet when they used to be blue. It's really well kept. He's in his 80's and doesn't do woodworking anymore. I carefully asked if he'd consider selling it so we'll see. I understand the sentimental value of a well used tool. That would be the easiest option as I could just use a big dolly to wheel it from his basement to mine.
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Offline afish

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2022, 08:24 AM »
everything has doubled. My pool filter got a crack and I had just replaced it a little over 2 years ago so that was a bummer.  I bought the last one on Amazon so it was easy to find again but this time it was over a thousand dollars.  I was like...I dont remember paying that much so checked the order history and I had paid 479 just a few short years before.  I have no idea either when it spiked it could have been just in the last year for all I know.  I just know almost everything I buy is twice as expensive or more over the last year or so

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2022, 08:52 AM »
@ChuckS That was my original plan. However it just seems like a pain unless you're forced to do it. Then you have to account for snipe as well.

My neighbor has an older Jet when they used to be blue. It's really well kept. He's in his 80's and doesn't do woodworking anymore. I carefully asked if he'd consider selling it so we'll see. I understand the sentimental value of a well used tool. That would be the easiest option as I could just use a big dolly to wheel it from his basement to mine.

Yes, the tradeoff is additional processing time (and that's why I do it for as many boards as I can foresee each time).

You can't avoid the snipe thing because after you flatten one side on the jointer, you still need to pass it through the planer to dimension it to thickness. I minimize the waste due to snipe by not cutting the ends of the rough lumber until after its flattening.

Offline ender

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2022, 08:53 AM »
I've been wanting a fancy jointer (I currently use my table saw to "joint" boards that I've planed and while it "works" it's definitely not good enough for long boards).

But they are so much more expensive that's for sure!

Offline rvieceli

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2022, 09:43 AM »
@DynaGlide prices are crazy. I bought a new 20 inch Powermatic helical head planer in June last year for 4200, the current price is 6000

Seems that as a result people aren’t upgrading their equipment which means fewer machines available used. Plus the used prices are higher

Prices for new steel has gone up significantly almost double. Buying from the scrap yard has doubled as  well.

There are machines out there though.

You may need to expand your search on the used market and just assume you’ll need to drive to pick it up. Facebook Marketplace will let you search a 500 mile radius.

I think I drove around 800 miles round trip to pick up my 16 inch Oliver. But absolutely worth it.  [big grin]

Use a Craigslist search engine like searchtempest.com to manage your searches.

Also don’t shy away from commercial equipment or 3 phase. Smaller jointers usually have a smaller motor that can easily be run off a VFD.

irsauctions.com is an online auction house dealing with surplus equipment and business liquidations. (Industrial recovery service not the FEDS)

govdeals.com is another source for equipment.

Jointers are fairly simple machines with usually only a couple of bearings on the head.

Ron


Online Richard/RMW

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2022, 09:58 AM »
@rvieceli Ron I casually grabbed 3 pieces of offcut AL angle from my supplier and was shocked when they asked me for $80+. 10# @ $8/#!

Steel prices went from ~$1 to $2/#. Thankfully they haven't raises their prices for offcuts yet, still $0.50/#.

The world has definitely changed. Makes me happy we are personally on the downslope of our consumer years, yet I feel bad for younger generations.

Heavy truck manufacturers are sold out thru 2023, so large trucking fleets are keeping their vehicles longer, driving up their operating costs per mile. Used tractor prices have doubled, which hits the independent owner/operators that handle most of the port drayage. Add in fuel costs and wages and you see the trajectory. Refief won't come until consumption drops, i.e. recession.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Online Cheese

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2022, 10:15 AM »
Just to add to the hand wringing... [smile]...was at Menards yesterday and noticed that 100 feet of 12/3 NM-B copper is now over $200 with the taxes added. And I don't need to add that 100 feet of wire doesn't go very far.

Online Richard/RMW

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2022, 10:51 AM »
Just to add to the hand wringing... [smile]...was at Menards yesterday and noticed that 100 feet of 12/3 NM-B copper is now over $200 with the taxes added. And I don't need to add that 100 feet of wire doesn't go very far.

Guilty. It is easy to get wrapped up with first world problems.

This weekend is an especially good opportunity to reflect and appreciate. And unplug.

Think I'll take my own advice this time.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1487
Re: Jointers
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2022, 11:26 AM »
@rvieceli

Thanks Ron. That IRS Auctions site could get a guy in trouble if he had a large shop and cash to burn. Some real big boy machinery on there.

I'll keep looking. I get the feeling not owning a truck/cargo van is going to really hinder my ability to pick something up if I find it.
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Offline rvieceli

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2022, 11:59 AM »
That’s what UHaul, Penske and Budget are for.  [big grin]

Ron

Offline afish

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2022, 12:04 PM »
That’s what UHaul, Penske and Budget are for.  [big grin]

Ron

Yep, I live in the city and had a All aluminum off road trailer I built but it came in handy for lots of stuff since I dont have a pick up anymore but the storage was killing me.  I have a uhaul less than a mile from me so I finally sold the trailer and just spend 20 bucks if I need to move something. 

Online Bob D.

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2022, 12:12 PM »
I think I'd be looking at old iron. More bang for your buck.

Example: here WAS a Delta 8" jointer that went for $850.
I say was because it is sold. But it might have been worth the drive.

https://delaware.craigslist.org/tld/d/millsboro-used-machinery/7486594777.html

Looks like there is a shop full of machinery for sale there. He's in Millsboro, DE
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 12:20 PM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline JimH2

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2022, 12:42 PM »
Powermatic double drum sander is cool and were I able to get it through my basement door I'd be driving to DE.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1487
Re: Jointers
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2022, 01:01 PM »
I think I'd be looking at old iron. More bang for your buck.

Example: here WAS a Delta 8" jointer that went for $850.
I say was because it is sold. But it might have been worth the drive.

https://delaware.craigslist.org/tld/d/millsboro-used-machinery/7486594777.html

Looks like there is a shop full of machinery for sale there. He's in Millsboro, DE

@Bob D. So I gave them a call, friendly shop. They have a bunch of used machinery that they get from auction and tune up and resell. Or if someone passes away, gets out of woodworking, etc, they take it in and resell it. They might have something for me and I like that since it's a business I could likely reserve/hold an item while I arrange a trip and truck rental.

Based on the pricing of that 8" jointer I'm guessing the 6" I'm after would be pretty reasonable.

Thanks for the heads up.

Matt
Instagram @matts.garage

Online Bob D.

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2022, 01:07 PM »
Great. If it was a bit closer than 120 miles from me I might be tempted to
make a trip. That's 12 gallons of diesel @ $6.19/gal and a $5 bridge toll.

But that's a fair chunk of change in fuel and tolls for a joy ride as I am not in
need of anything.

But no doubt if I was there I could find something I just had to have. :-)
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1487
Re: Jointers
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2022, 01:12 PM »
It's 138 miles for me. Not the farthest I've gone for a tool though. . .that award goes to a round trip to NJ to get @Bob Marino CMS-GE set.
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Online Bob D.

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2022, 01:15 PM »
It's worth it if they have what you need. Good luck.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Peter Kelly

  • Posts: 143
Re: Jointers
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2022, 02:10 PM »
Unless you're only ever making really small things I'd look for an 8" jointer. You'll find it to be a much more useful tool.

Offline Peter_C

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2022, 02:22 PM »
I have no problem buying older American iron, so I grabbed a Powermatic PM50 from Ebay out of a school equipment replacement program for $164. The bearings could use replacement in the future, and I upgraded the switch to a larger STOP paddle type. Hooked it up to dust collection and put it to work. Is there a benefit to new equipment? Not much if you don't mind a couple hours of work and less than $80 in bearings, and maybe brushes. Shelix heads can be installed in most any piece of equipment, but jointer blades are easy enough to sharpen.

I didn't take down my searches for a jointer since an 8" jointer is preferable, and I can resell the Powermatic PM50. If buying new I would go for an 8" at time of purchase.

This doesn't apply 100% of the time but..."Inflation" coincides with "Record Corporate Profits".

Offline rvieceli

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2022, 02:43 PM »
yup. My Oliver jointer rolled off the factory floor in 1945, the PM66 table saw in 1969 and the 20 inch Bandsaw in 1974.

Ron

Online Richard/RMW

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2022, 05:24 PM »
Great. If it was a bit closer than 120 miles from me I might be tempted to
make a trip. That's 12 gallons of diesel @ $6.19/gal and a $5 bridge toll.

But that's a fair chunk of change in fuel and tolls for a joy ride as I am not in
need of anything.

But no doubt if I was there I could find something I just had to have. :-)

Much closer if you take the ferry to Lewes... [poke]

RMW  [big grin]
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2022, 06:15 PM »
I am considering the Jet combo that ToolNut has on sale.  Yes it is NOT for a commercial shop, but to get a short bed jointer (10") and a 10" planer combo for less than $800 for my needs -it sure is tempting.

Peter

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1487
Re: Jointers
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2022, 06:21 PM »
I am considering the Jet combo that ToolNut has on sale.  Yes it is NOT for a commercial shop, but to get a short bed jointer (10") and a 10" planer combo for less than $800 for my needs -it sure is tempting.

Peter

Careful Peter. The reviews on that are not great.

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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2022, 07:12 PM »
I know, but I also looked at the dates with the hope that since the model was out in 2009 they have made improvements.

I'm like you and would love to get an 8".  Don't need a planer - I have one that has probably only had 200 feet run thru it in 8 years.

Scarcity sucks!

Peter

Online Bob D.

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Re: Jointers
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2022, 07:24 PM »
Great. If it was a bit closer than 120 miles from me I might be tempted to
make a trip. That's 12 gallons of diesel @ $6.19/gal and a $5 bridge toll.

But that's a fair chunk of change in fuel and tolls for a joy ride as I am not in
need of anything.

But no doubt if I was there I could find something I just had to have. :-)

Much closer if you take the ferry to Lewes... [poke]

RMW  [big grin]

Maybe for you living on the east coast, but I am 26 miles from the DMB. It's 58 miles to the Ferry for me plus you get to wait an hour or more, both ways.

Right now there is a $5 fuel surcharge for the Ferry, because the $45 fare is not enough. And that's the low side, the rate varies with time of day and how far in advance you book. Waste of time AND money. they should discontinue service and build a bridge/tunnel like was proposed decades ago. It could have paid for itself a dozen times over by now.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Peter Kelly

  • Posts: 143
Re: Jointers
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2022, 08:50 PM »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/354049974969?hash=item526f05e2b9:g:ZmsAAOSwdzZieALT
6" Delta for $250 located in Alexandria VA, looks like it needs a little TLC but otherwise viable. Even comes with a rolling base.