Author Topic: Jointer  (Read 10909 times)

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Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 801
  • Michigan
Jointer
« on: June 29, 2007, 04:19 PM »
I'm finding more and more that I need a jointer and was wondering if I missing a technique that I could use with my Festool saw or TS (Ryobi, not the best saw but its what I have).  If not, any recommendations as to a good quality 6" jointer (preferably that's also a good value for the money - I'm hoping to not spend as much as I have on any one of my Festool tools).

Right now I'm try to cut a 3' long piece of 8/4 teak (that has a slight bow in it) into two strips to create a single 3/4 thick teak strip to glue on the edge of a 3/4 countertop and can't get it flat enough using my TS that I feel it will glue well.  I'm off to my dad's shop to use his jointer for this piece, but ultimately I want to be able to do this in my shop with my equipment.

Thanks

Fred
Fred

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Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7388
Re: Jointer
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2007, 04:51 PM »
Well in the price range you are talking about a 6" jointer is only option. If you have the space, a low end stationary jointer is the way to go. If you just want to be able to put one on a shelf when not in use, then a portable model. I have a Delta portable jointer, that just replace an old Ryobi (don't laugh, that was the best portable I've ever used). Anyhow, the Delta works pretty well.

Offline Ned

  • Posts: 1146
Re: Jointer
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2007, 05:08 PM »
... an old Ryobi (don't laugh, that was the best portable I've ever used).

I'm not laughing.  I've got the Ryobi JP-155 and I'll miss it when it goes.

How does the Delta portable compare?

Ned

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Jointer
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2007, 05:08 PM »
I had good results with my Ridgid 6" jointer.  The only problem is the infeed and outfeed are short and that limits or creates a challenge to square lumber.

Well, let me take back the "only problem"  Ridgid does not sell blades so you will purchasing other brands, or get an after market elliptical blade.

There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7388
Re: Jointer
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2007, 06:06 PM »
... an old Ryobi (don't laugh, that was the best portable I've ever used).

I'm not laughing.  I've got the Ryobi JP-155 and I'll miss it when it goes.

How does the Delta portable compare?

Ned

Ned, the Delta is still pretty new, so it does a very nice job, now, we'll see in a few years. The Delta is all metal so its maybe 60%-70% heavier. It has a fence that is twice as tall, for me this is a good thing. What I miss the most on the Ryobi is the 2.5" dust port out of the side, I would stick a shopvac hose on and just put it in a garbage can, no vac, worked great. The Delta has a 2"x6" slot in the front that I don't like, the chips can clog up. Another plus for the Delta, I can go to Lowes to get a new set of blades, don't have to order them like with the Ryobi.

Offline brandon.nickel

  • Posts: 241
  • Currently Peoria, IL - Eventually back to CO
Re: Jointer
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2007, 09:04 AM »
I love my Powermatic 54A 6" jointer.  It may not fit your budget though at ~$700 MSRP.  I got mine for about $560 on sale.  The bed is longer than any of hte other 6" jointers I was looking at.  I've found that to be a very valuable feature when trying to joint 10' stock.  Grizzly has some good deals, but so far I haven't been happy with the quality of the few things I've bought from Grizzly (including an $800 drum sander).  Anytime I try to save money I end up regretting it.  That's not been a problem with my Festool stuff.
TS55, MFT1080, Domino, OF1400, LR32, RO150E, DTS400, Trion, CT33

Offline Loren Hedahl

  • Posts: 160
Re: Jointer
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2007, 10:04 AM »
I have had a Sunhill 6 inch jointer for about 10 years and have been satisfied.

Just after I bought it a neighbor decided to sell his.  If I had known I would have bought his, saved a few bucks in the process and would have the extra knives etc. he had acquired.

So check the used market.  Jointers aren't high wear items, at least the stationary ones aren't.  If nothing is broken and it will make a straight edge, that's about all you can wish for.
Location (generally):  Thirty five miles west of Seattle by the way the crow flies.

You can tell a Norwegian, but you can't tell him much!

Offline Matthew Schenker

  • Posts: 2619
Re: Jointer
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2007, 09:16 AM »
I have the new Craftsman 6" jointer.  With a sale and joining the Craftsman Club, I got it for about $375.  Usually, I'm not a big fan of Craftsman, but I think their new line of tools (made by Orion) are pretty good.  I've been using it for about a year now, and it has been very reliable.

Here's a link: Craftsman Jointer

Recently, I upgraded the blades to the Esta system. Here's a link: Esta USA.

Matthew
FOG Designer and Creator

Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 801
  • Michigan
Re: Jointer
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2007, 06:33 PM »
I'm hoping to stay in the $500 range although if I have to spend more to get a machine that works well I will.  I hate having tools that don't perform well, which is why I've started with Festool.  I need something that makes up for my lack of skill!

I'm wondering what folks think about the spiral cutter heads.  I noticed that Grizzly has a 6" model that can be upgraded to a spiral cutter head.  Is it worth the extra money.  For that matter is the Grizzly G0604 a decent machine. 

Fred
Fred

Offline Len

  • Posts: 53
  • SW Ohio
Re: Jointer
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2007, 07:44 PM »
Hey Fred,

You won't go wrong with the Powermatic 54A mentioned above.  Great machine that should last a lifetime.  I have only owned one Grizzly - combo 12" disk/6" belt.  Awlful machine.  So I am a bit turned off by Grizzly, but lots of folks love 'em.  But it seems like when anyone praises their Grizzly the first words are "I only paid ..."

I say go the the gold.

Len

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 480
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Jointer
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2007, 12:40 PM »
Fred,

What kind of space do you have available? Reason I ask is you really should at least consider getting an 8" machine instead of a 6". People upgrade all the time from 6" to 8", but you almost never here of anyone that wants to step down. An 8" machine opens up a lot more options. With your $500 price range, you should be able to find something that is used that will hold up well. Jointers are very simple machines (there's not much on them that can go bad), so buying used isn't really a concern most of the time. Used wouldn't be a bad way to go for a 6" machine either. The used market usually has a lot of them out there and at good prices since so many eventually upgrade to 8" machines.

As to upgrading to a spiral head, they all pretty much can be upgraded. Its just a question of are you willing to spend the money?


Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 801
  • Michigan
Re: Jointer
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2007, 01:07 PM »
Lou,

Unfortunately my space is very limited, approx 12 X 20 and I really don't have any wall space open any more, between the table and band saws, drill press, MFT, workbench and shelving.  I'll need to get a mobile base under the jointer so I can get it out when I need it and stuff it back behind the furnace when not using it.  I agree that an 8" would be better, but at least I have use of my Dad's 8" if really needed.  I just don't like having to run over there every time I want to do anything so I think a 6" would meet most of what I'm likely to do.

Good point about the used machines, I really hadn't considered that yet.

Is the spiral head enough better to justify $300+ upgrade cost?

Fred
Fred

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Jointer
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2007, 03:45 PM »
In my opinion the spiral head are better.  Sunhill has 2 options one cost 150 and the other is the expensive one. 
I have installed the 150 option in my Ridgid jointer.
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 480
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Jointer
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2007, 08:05 PM »
Lou,

Unfortunately my space is very limited, approx 12 X 20 and I really don't have any wall space open any more, between the table and band saws, drill press, MFT, workbench and shelving.  I'll need to get a mobile base under the jointer so I can get it out when I need it and stuff it back behind the furnace when not using it.  I agree that an 8" would be better, but at least I have use of my Dad's 8" if really needed.  I just don't like having to run over there every time I want to do anything so I think a 6" would meet most of what I'm likely to do.

Good point about the used machines, I really hadn't considered that yet.

Is the spiral head enough better to justify $300+ upgrade cost?

Fred

You've got a lot more space than you realize then. My old shop was 10x20 and I had a 6" jointer in there. My current shop is only 13x21. I've got a 10" jointer(84" beds), 15" planer, 17" bandsaw, 52" cabinet saw, 34"x44" router table, 3HP cyclone, a drill press mounted on a cabinet that is 24"x24",34"x82" bench/outfeed table, an MFT1080, a lumber rack that will hold about 500 BF of wood, and tool cabinets that have a total of 23 drawers and enough shelf space to hold 18 Festool systainers all stuffed inside my space. Even with all that stuff crammed in there, there's enough room for me and a helper to work comfortably for 8 hours a day every day. The only thing I breakdown regularly is the MFT, the rest of the stuff stays stationary 99% of the time. You just have to organize things properly and you'll be amazed at how much room you can create for things.

As to the spiral heads, you'll get varying answers on that one as value is percieved differently by everyone. I personally don't think the spirals are worth it for a joiner. Now on a planer, I think they are worth every penny and then some. Just my opinion. 

Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 801
  • Michigan
Re: Jointer
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2007, 09:28 PM »
I'm impressed - talk about putting 10 lbs of sh... er sawdust in a 5 lb bag.  I apparently need organzation lessons! 

One of the things I need to do is get rid of a few hundred board feet of burmese teak shorts that are taking up a 4' x 4' x 5' corner of my shop area in the basement.  An old 1950 vintage International Harvester refrigerator needs to go one these days too.  That would free up a noticeable chunk of space.

Thanks to all for all the input.

Fred
Fred

Offline Dave Rudy

  • Posts: 771
  • Coloroda Front Range, in the lee of Pikes Peak
Re: Jointer
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2007, 08:17 AM »

My current shop is only 13x21. I've got a 10" jointer(84" beds), 15" planer, 17" bandsaw, 52" cabinet saw, 34"x44" router table, 3HP cyclone, a drill press mounted on a cabinet that is 24"x24",34"x82" bench/outfeed table, an MFT1080, a lumber rack that will hold about 500 BF of wood, and tool cabinets that have a total of 23 drawers and enough shelf space to hold 18 Festool systainers all stuffed inside my space. Even with all that stuff crammed in there, there's enough room for me and a helper to work comfortably for 8 hours a day every day. The only thing I breakdown regularly is the MFT, the rest of the stuff stays stationary 99% of the time. You just have to organize things properly and you'll be amazed at how much room you can create for things.

As to the spiral heads, you'll get varying answers on that one as value is percieved differently by everyone. I personally don't think the spirals are worth it for a joiner. Now on a planer, I think they are worth every penny and then some. Just my opinion. 

PICS, please?  Showing exactly how it is that you get all that stuff into that space?


Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 801
  • Michigan
Re: Jointer
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2007, 10:14 AM »
Or a floorplan sketch would be great....
Fred

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 480
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Jointer
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2007, 03:16 PM »
I'll try to snap a few pics tonight if I remember.

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Jointer
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2007, 02:33 PM »
You've got a lot more space than you realize then. My old shop was 10x20 and I had a 6" jointer in there. My current shop is only 13x21. I've got a 10" jointer(84" beds), 15" planer, 17" bandsaw, 52" cabinet saw, 34"x44" router table, 3HP cyclone, a drill press mounted on a cabinet that is 24"x24",34"x82" bench/outfeed table, an MFT1080, a lumber rack that will hold about 500 BF of wood, and tool cabinets that have a total of 23 drawers and enough shelf space to hold 18 Festool systainers all stuffed inside my space. Even with all that stuff crammed in there, there's enough room for me and a helper to work comfortably for 8 hours a day every day. The only thing I breakdown regularly is the MFT, the rest of the stuff stays stationary 99% of the time. You just have to organize things properly and you'll be amazed at how much room you can create for things.

Lou,

I could sure use some organization ideas, and my wife would be delighted if I implemented them.  Could you post a sketch or photo showing how you arranged everything to fit in what appears to me to be a small space?  I am trying to figure out what to keep, what to sell and how to arrange what is left which includes 2.5 HP cyclone DC, 10" TS with extensions /router table, 1080 MFT, mechanic's roll-about tool chest, 10" jointer/planer, Shopsmith [my drill press, lathe and sanding center], 11" bandsaw, 20 gal tank air compressor, 10" mitre saw, shop vac, 2 large workbenches [at least one of which I want to keep because it is heavy [solid maple], rigid [and thus good for hand planing and carving] and it has good quality end and side vises, and some Festools, clamps and finishing supplies.  And I keep a small car in this garage which is approx. 15W x 25L x 8H.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline denverdad

  • Posts: 21
Re: Jointer
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2007, 11:53 PM »
I am a relative noobie, so I'll throw in my 1/2 cent opinion: I also have the Ridgid jointer and like it for the money. I got a rebate, 12 months no payments, and a lifetime warranty for less than $350.

On the negative side, the first one I bought had twisted tables so it went back to the Depot, but the next one was great.

I swear when doing 6' boards, so if most of your work is 6' or longer I would look at a longer bed. If you're less than 6', the Ridgid leaves a lot of room in your wallet for more Festools.

Lou, I am also interested in seeing your amazing black hole workshop. I am in a 19'x19' carriage house with a lot of other junk, and spend more than half my time in the shop moving things around to make room for infeed and outfeed, find power, hook up DC, swearing, etc.

-Randy

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 480
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Jointer
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2007, 08:08 PM »
Sorry guys, been tied up lately and haven't had time (okay, I forgot too) about getting some pics together. I promise, I'll try and do it before the end of the weekend.

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 480
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Jointer
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2007, 01:35 AM »
I hate computers and they hate me. I've been trying for a while now to get some pictures uploaded here for those that asked, but can't seem to get it done. I've given up on the pictures and now I'm gonna try sketchup drawings. Hopefully these show up.

[/URL][/img]

[/URL][/img]

[/URL][/img]

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 480
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Jointer
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2007, 01:36 AM »
ugh... I give up... I'll try again tomorrow.

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 480
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Jointer
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2007, 01:39 AM »
one more quick try with just links...

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3947/mycurrentshop1nn0.png

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/757/mycurrentshop2jw5.png

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/7354/mycurrentshop3qk2.png

The tall yellow cylinder in the drawing is supposed to be a dust collector. I didn't know of a simple way to draw it quickly. I'm tired and frustrated now, if anyone wants elaboration on the drawings, I'll do my best to answer tomorrow. Hopefully this sheds some light on things for those that asked for pictures. 

Offline denverdad

  • Posts: 21
Re: Jointer
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2007, 08:18 AM »
Lou,

Thanks for taking the time to post those models. Amazing that it was easier to model it in sketchup and post images then posting pictures - I will wait a little longer to try messing with the pics.

It looks like one of your major space saving tricks was to orient the TS perpendicular to the wall and then put the Jointer in the deadspace in the TS outfeed. Do you have any trouble joining long boards because you cant move to the right of the jointer? (I do see that you have a 7' bed on that thing, so its prolly not much of an issue). How much room is there between the jointer and the TS outfeed/workbench?

Do you have more magic for planing? Is that planer on wheels(or else the bandsaw is?)? What do you use for infeed/outfeed support?

Finally, where do you put the MFT?

Thanks for helping us fill our 5# bags...

Offline Dan Clark

  • Posts: 540
    • talkFestool
Re: Jointer
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2007, 09:51 AM »
Lou,

Nice looking models.

Regarding the pics, you can use the "Insert Image" button above (2nd row, 4th from left).   To use it:

1) Copy the image URL address to place it in memory.   

2) Click the button.  You may get a warning message about scrited windows at the top of your browser.  If so, click on the message and "Temporarilly Allow Scripted Windows".  Then click the "Insert Image" button again.  You should see a small dialog pop up.

3) Delete the "http://" default text in the text box.

4) Paste the URL into the text box.

5) The image URL with html tags should look like this in your post:
Code: [Select]
[img]http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3947/mycurrentshop1nn0.png[/img]
And will appear like this:


Regards,

Dan.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 09:59 AM by Dan Clark »

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 480
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Jointer
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2007, 11:20 AM »
Lou,

Thanks for taking the time to post those models. Amazing that it was easier to model it in sketchup and post images then posting pictures - I will wait a little longer to try messing with the pics.

It looks like one of your major space saving tricks was to orient the TS perpendicular to the wall and then put the Jointer in the deadspace in the TS outfeed. Do you have any trouble joining long boards because you cant move to the right of the jointer? (I do see that you have a 7' bed on that thing, so its prolly not much of an issue). How much room is there between the jointer and the TS outfeed/workbench?

Do you have more magic for planing? Is that planer on wheels(or else the bandsaw is?)? What do you use for infeed/outfeed support?

Finally, where do you put the MFT?

Thanks for helping us fill our 5# bags...

For a normal person, it would have been easier to just get the pics to post. For some reason, I seem to be pretty good at the harder things with the computer, but I'm really lousy at what should be easy.

Anyway, yes the location of the TS, jointer and the outfeed table is what frees up enough space to make everything else work. I am not limited to any length I can run across the jointer. For boards 4' and under, I just leave evrything where it is. Between 4' and 8' I have to slide the router table out about 18".  Between 8' and 12' I have to angle the jointer just a little in its space. The jointer is on a mobile base that raises it around 8", so that allows for the infeed bed to hang over the table board on the TS. Over 12' and I have to move the jointer out about 8" from the wall and the space gets tight, but its still doable. I almost never work with boards longer than 12' so this isn't an issue very often. I normally have about 22" or so of space between the outfeed and the jointer. I'm over 200 pounds and I fit in there very easily, its not as tight as you might think. 

The planer is probably the easiest machine in the shop to use. Yes its on wheels, so I simply slide it into the aisle that is there and plane away. The TS, outfeed table and tool cabinets are stationary. Everything else in the room is mobile. Surprisingly, the only thing I ever move frequently is the planer. Obviously, this space is setup for me and my work habits. I mostly build cabinets in there. If I did other types of work more frequently in there, I'd have to move things around. Some people here probably think I'm insane to have all of that in there (and I probably am), but you do what you gotta do, the mortgage company still wants their check every month...

The MFT slips under the lumber rack with ease. I break it down most of the time and store it as I use that space as temporary storage for other tools (portable TS, mitersaws, compressors, etc.).

Offline denverdad

  • Posts: 21
Re: Jointer
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2007, 06:46 PM »
Lou,

Thanks for the details .

-Randy

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Jointer
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2007, 11:19 PM »
Thanks for your posts, Lou.  And thanks for your helpful instructions, Dan.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.