Author Topic: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?  (Read 2704 times)

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Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« on: September 07, 2022, 01:55 PM »
I needed to buy a new jig saw, and after much angst looking over tool reviews ordered the 576535 (PSBC 420 HPC 4,0 EBI-Plus). I didn't think to check this forum first... I suspect some may know where I'm going. It hasn't shipped and I'm considering cancelling the order.

First off, I have never liked using jig saws because they have never cut at a 90 degree angle (this is using Bosch blades), which is one of the reasons I picked the Carvex based on some reviews. Additionally, my last jig saw (craftsman) failed because of poor internal construction, so I wanted something that would last. I only had less than 5 hours on the one that failed, if that.

Anyhow, I started reading about the issues the Carvex has with blade "alignment" - and based on what the forum is saying, Festool has not addressed this with any engineering changes - correct? It's listed as "new" on the Festool site, but I don't know what that means - is the saw redesigned - or just the combination of parts?

I want cordless - d-handle or barrel doesn't matter - though the Mafell P1CC is tempting even though it is corded and even more expensive. I am not interested in the corded Festool jigsaw. I am "bought in" to the Bosch 18v system, so you'd think I would have jumped on their cordless jigsaw but the reviews seemed "meh" - not the worst, but not high up there either. My hope is, if I had a better (cordless) unit, I'd reach for it more often rather than say, my Tajima G-Saw. I don't usually do finish cuts with that hand saw, but I'd never use my old jig saw because it never tracked straight, and I could never use it for near-finish cuts. I would like a better jig saw for times when a clean jig saw cut is good enough.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9999
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2022, 02:26 PM »
I'd vote for the Mafell 1st and the Trion 2nd...but those are both corded.  [tongue]  So that locks you into the Carvex platform if you want to go cordless, but I've heard good things about the Hilti offering which I would seriously take a look at. The Carvex is just ok...


Just noticed it's your first post so  [welcome] to the FOG.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 02:37 PM by Cheese »

Online woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 438
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2022, 03:08 PM »

Yes - welcome to the FOG. I agree with @Cheese - the P1CC exists in a class of one IMO. It's the only jigsaw out there which makes cuts which are consistently 100% square to the surface - I bought mine at a tool show after watching a rep cut a perfect square-edged circle around a £2 coin in 40mm thick oak. It achieves this using a unique and massively engineered blade clamping mechanism. The Carvex has its fans on here, but it sits in the very unusual position of having just as many haters as lovers on here. Almost unheard of for a Festool product. I understand a cordless version of the P1CC is in the pipeline, but the release date is totally unknown - well into 2023 I'm guessing.

The 22-volt Hilti? I had the rep call round and give me a demo recently. It was very, very good indeed - the closest I've ever seen to what's achievable with a P1CC. They do both a barrel-grip and D-handle.

Hope you get fixed up.
Kevin


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5599
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2022, 03:49 PM »
If you want the best, follow the above advice.

If your requirements aren’t that extreme try the Bosch cordless. In the states you can return it within 30 days.

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2022, 04:56 PM »
I understand a cordless version of the P1CC is in the pipeline, but the release date is totally unknown - well into 2023 I'm guessing.

The 22-volt Hilti? I had the rep call round and give me a demo recently. It was very, very good indeed - the closest I've ever seen to what's achievable with a P1CC. They do both a barrel-grip and D-handle.

Hope you get fixed up.
Kevin
Thanks for those suggestions - the Hilti is slightly cheaper and gives me something else to look at!

If you want the best, follow the above advice.

If your requirements aren’t that extreme try the Bosch cordless. In the states you can return it within 30 days.
Who do I buy the Bosch from to get the 30 day returns? If I can test it out and evaluate for myself, I'd feel better buying it first.

Amazon states:

Quote
This item can be returned in its original condition for a full refund or replacement within 30 days of receipt.

If I use it, not sure if they'll accept the return. I've returned a lot of stuff to them - but never when evaluating something - only for unused or defective items (ie, failure within 30 days with proper use).

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5599
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2022, 05:06 PM »
In my experience Amazon’s return policy is extremely liberal but Lowes is too.
I think you can get free shipping from Lowes as well.
If the tool’s performance doesn’t match your expectations…

You can also take advantage of this 30 day satisfaction warranty to determine whether you prefer barrel or top grip.

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2022, 05:49 PM »
Out of stock at Lowes, I guess I can buy it from Amazon and return if it doesn't cut straight - but the d-handle version has a variable speed trigger, not a speed control wheel. Not sure how fatiguing those are when trying to run at 50%, etc...
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 05:54 PM by ururk »

Offline morts10n

  • Posts: 327
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2022, 08:36 PM »
I bought 2 Trion and one Carvex before my frustrations were eliminated by the Mafell

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2022, 10:33 PM »
Well, this escalated quickly:

Bosch JSH180B - $128 - with dust attachment, L-Boxx, exact fit insert, battery set (to be comparable to Festool/Mafell) - $312
Festool Carvex - $519.00 - with base accessory kit (was curious how this compared in price) - $778
P1CC - $615 - with tilt base - $778

Cancelling the Festool order tomorrow morning, I ordered the Bosch (just the tool though). I'm not convinced I'll be happy with it - if not I'll return and wait till a cordless P1CC is released - I can wait. I need the jig saw for a project, but I will continue doing it the manual way for now if the Bosch doesn't work out. What's an extra 12 hours of my time?

Why so much "angst" over this tool? It isn't just this tool - tool buying in general is difficult for me. I try not to overspend... but I also want to buy something that works well and will last. I know if I get another sub-par jig saw it will only be used when I have no other option.

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 374
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2022, 06:58 AM »
If it’s helpful, I have a 12v Bosch recip saw that I’ve been very happy with.



Offline afish

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2022, 07:22 AM »
Im curious, what types of tasks are people using a jig saw for that is so critical. To me a jig saw is more off rudimentary tool.  The very design of a small metal blade prone to flexing with no bottom guide making a stabbing motion 1000's of times per minute and prone to significant chipping on either the top or bottom surface kind limits the tool to no precision type tasks 

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2022, 08:43 AM »
Im curious, what types of tasks are people using a jig saw for that is so critical. To me a jig saw is more off rudimentary tool.  The very design of a small metal blade prone to flexing with no bottom guide making a stabbing motion 1000's of times per minute and prone to significant chipping on either the top or bottom surface kind limits the tool to no precision type tasks
For me, anyways, it would be nice if the jig saw could:

Replace a circular saw when cutting a board to length (up to 2x material)
Be the *final* step (before sanding) in cutting a shape out of plywood or when notching a board
Cut bevels in 4x8 wood sheets to a shape (not a straight line) - impossible to do with any other tool
Track straight even when the grain wants to pull it in one direction or another

There may be others - and this is why this decision is so "difficult" for me, anyhow. I don't think I would ever use it enough to justify the price of the Mafell, but I want something better than my previous unit and if it is precise I'll reach out to it more often than not. Like you say - it is a rudimentary tool but given the right design and blade type it can be so much more (Mafell's "v-shaped" blades, for instance). I was able to justify the price of the Carvex because it came with a battery and charger - it would let me purchase other Festool battery tools without having to purchase additional batteries.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 271
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2022, 09:18 AM »
I reckon I could cut a 2 metre board or panel quicker with a handsaw than a jig saw, in fact I am sure of it. Jigsaws by their nature are a fairly crude device and the Mafelle is the least crude from all reports.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9999
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2022, 09:42 AM »
Im curious, what types of tasks are people using a jig saw for that is so critical.

For me the biggest deal is for the cut line to be 90º to the surface, that's my overriding concern. Here's a photo of a 12" circle cut in 3/4" ply. Difficult to see but the entire cut line is 90º to the surface using a standard Mafell W2 blade. Festool blades also work well in the P1cc and cut at 90º.
I tend not to use the double thickness Mafell W1 blade because it feeds so slowly and the other blades work well in the P1cc.




And if eliminating sawdust is your thing, here's a photo of the dust leftover after I cut the end off of a piece of 3/4" ply. In order of cleanliness...Mafell...Trion...Carvex.






Online woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 438
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2022, 03:06 PM »
@Cheese You're still wearing your safety white socks and moccasins !!!!!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2022, 03:08 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline nvalinski

  • Posts: 173
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2022, 03:30 PM »
Im curious, what types of tasks are people using a jig saw for that is so critical. To me a jig saw is more off rudimentary tool.  The very design of a small metal blade prone to flexing with no bottom guide making a stabbing motion 1000's of times per minute and prone to significant chipping on either the top or bottom surface kind limits the tool to no precision type tasks

I used to agree with you, but then I bought a P1CC. The P1CC gives me the ability to make accurate complex shapes in furniture and scribing thick counters that previously I needed a bandsaw to accomplish (and still needed sanding). For repeatable tasks, you are probably better off using routers and templates (where a less accurate jigsaw + spindle sander will be fine), but the P1CC gives me results nearly as good for any of my one-off needs and makes more accurate templates with less work. I also have grown accustomed to coping trim with it upside down, though I find myself leaning maybe towards picking up a less accurate 12V Bosch with a collin's coping foot for this task.

Offline Vtshopdog

  • Posts: 155
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2022, 03:48 PM »
All these years honestly thought it was me making my Bosch cut somewhere around (+/-) 5-10 degrees, but reading this thread it appears it’s the tool not operator error ;D

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2022, 06:52 PM »
All these years honestly thought it was me making my Bosch cut somewhere around (+/-) 5-10 degrees, but reading this thread it appears it’s the tool not operator error ;D
It's always the tool :D never the operator!

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1843
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2022, 07:47 PM »
I have always seen jigsaws as a slightly refined version of a reciprocating saw. (SawZall)
I don't really expect finished cuts from one. In general, I am just trying to get the bulk of the material out of the way.
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Offline afish

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2022, 08:14 PM »
I have always seen jigsaws as a slightly refined version of a reciprocating saw. (SawZall)
I don't really expect finished cuts from one. In general, I am just trying to get the bulk of the material out of the way.
yep, that was kind of what I was getting at.  Back in the old days I might remove most with a jig saw but for finished cuts where accuracy counts I would make a template/jig and route the last bit.  I couldnt think of one one instance that I needed a jigsaw to make a almost perfect cut. But different strokes, I guess. outlet cutouts, cutting up the negatives off the cnc is about all I reach for a jigsaw for.  scribes are usually done as close as possible with a track saw and finished with a grinder.  I missed out on the RAS :(

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5599
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2022, 08:28 PM »
@ururk not that I’ve seen a bit of your shop in the stair thread, just buy the Mafell already  ;)

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2022, 10:13 PM »
@ururk not that I’ve seen a bit of your shop in the stair thread, just buy the Mafell already  ;)
LOL - I feel like that's the trajectory I'm on. But I'm still going to try the Bosch when it gets here. I should try to be financially prudent, and am quite happy with their 18v system and the tools I've bought so far. That being said, I don't have a lot of hope for the Bosch. Yet... egads - almost $800 for the Mafell to get a tilt base - I'm going to need a serious project to convince myself it's justified. Or see one in action (the only US distributor I could find looked like they were in Chicago).

I bought the KS 120 REB for a flooring project - justified. ETS 125 REQ-Plus sander to sand all the beams in my shop - justified. I could go on and on (not necessarily with Festool, I only have four of their products). The jig saw... I "need" one but have other means to accomplish the same task.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9999
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2022, 09:59 AM »
Yet... egads - almost $800 for the Mafell to get a tilt base - I'm going to need a serious project to convince myself it's justified. Or see one in action (the only US distributor I could find looked like they were in Chicago).

Timberwolf Tools in Chicago is the only current distributor. But, about 3-4 years ago Toolnut was also a distributor and they ran a killer sale on several Mafell items. That's when I picked up the P1cc for $495 I believe, that was a no-brainer.

Timberwolf is very easy to deal with, Nick Klomstad the manager, is pleasant, smart and he will/can answer any questions you may have about the tools. Overall a great experience and a high recommend.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3885
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2022, 11:00 AM »
I’d second the praise for Timberwolf. I bought the Duodoweler and they answered all my questions and helped me through the learning phase.

If they had a battery Mafell jigsaw, I’d sell both my Festool units immediately. I’d keep my very old corded Bosch saw.

I only use a jigsaw for rough cuts. Never trusted one for finish cuts.
Birdhunter

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2022, 02:23 AM »
Amazon pushed back the delivery date! So I am jigsawless. Still, using a Japanese pull saw, router, long bit, and some straightedges managed to cut some long (2”x36”) notches in 2x stock. This is the most utilitarian of uses I had hoped to put it to use to, and frankly suspect I wouldn’t be happy with the straightness of any of the jig saws.

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2022, 02:05 AM »
Finally had a chance to use the Bosch. I had four notches to make - they will be covered by trim boards so perfection wasn't necessary.

I think I'm going to keep it. Why when I know the Mafell would make me happy?
  • While its 90 degree cuts weren't perfect, they were pretty darn close. Much closer than my now defunct Craftsman
  • I'm "invested" in the Bosch battery system, so convenience wins out
  • It was easy to sight and keep control of - something my Craftsman couldn't do
  • It is light - and that's welcome
  • Affordable - while I could kit it out with an LBoxx, dust collection, I don't need those at the moment
  • There is a sliding lock but you only need to press one button to start it up
  • I actually like the variable speed trigger, something I though I'd hate

Some things I didn't like:

With the clear blade "guide" installed, sawdust built up and I had to stop and blow it out periodically.
The trigger is a heavy press - perhaps this is to enhance control - I think for long cuts it would get annoying
Because the batteries slot in from the bottom up, they can slide out - one of my slim packs did this while I was cutting.

Overall - this is a good purchase. If down the line I require a more precise tool, I know what to buy, and at that point it had better be some sort of income-generating job because I just have a hard time dropping that much on a jig saw.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1796
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2022, 03:40 PM »
Not having another battery platform is a huge bonus.

The Mafell might be gold... but so is it's price tag.

Offline Zubo

  • Posts: 27
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2022, 04:05 PM »
I have the Mafell P1CC and works great. Then I needed one cordless and buy the FESTOOL PSBC 420.

the Mafell have the Cunex blade which is very thick blade able to cut straight very well.

The festool i prefer to the Mafell when I work in site mounting cabinet forniture...the light of the PSBC is superb. And also have a cool circle jig

To make cut clean and straight I always prefer a router when possible. I like it is more relaxing.

If I have to chose one I go for the Mafell
Practice makes perfect. Don't be afraid to fail, be afraid not to try.

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2022, 07:42 PM »
The festool i prefer to the Mafell when I work in site mounting cabinet forniture...the light of the PSBC is superb. And also have a cool circle jig
+1 for the light - having that spotlight on the cutting area is really critical. That's the only fault (on paper) I can find with the Mafell.

Offline ururk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Jig saw advice - Carvex or ?
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2022, 05:16 PM »
Here's the kind of stuff I'm using it for. The first trial was cutting four notches to go around four posts. I'm trying to notch around as close as possible (1/8") - when done I'll go back around and cut an even gap with my oscillating tool before trimming it out. This saved me... so much time. Prior to it I was using a Japanese pull saw to make slits across the notch, scoring the line with a blade, chisel and rasp. At least one hour per notch, if not two.

The second was to open up the stairwell. I marked a line 1/4" away from the floor joists - I'll later come back with a (sketchy) flush trim router bit I got off Amazon. I would *not* have attempted this with the Craftsman. I know - I keep beating that tool up - but it was just... so bad.