Author Topic: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?  (Read 8520 times)

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Offline mxlars

  • Posts: 25
Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« on: March 08, 2008, 11:53 PM »
Just noticed this by coincidence..

Didn't find any details in english for you, but some new in addition to a similar Festool zero-tolerance railsystem are positive stops at most used angles and a lip that cathes the left side of the base to a groove in the track.

This plungesaw has a 1300w, electronically controlled motor (2000-5200rpm), weighs 4,1kg (9lbs).. AND is delivered in a systainer ???
Rails are available in 1400 and 3000mm with optional carrybag.

Makita SP6000(165mm blade) :








- They also have a railsystem for the saws 5603R, 5703R, 5903R and 5705RK if fitted with a rail adapter :
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 11:54 PM by mxlars »

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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2008, 12:08 AM »
I found English specs on this a few months ago, something that intrigued me was that it bevels past 45 degrees... something that I find handy in remodeling. By the way, I've heard the Makita SP6000 is available in Canada now?.....
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline mxlars

  • Posts: 25
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2008, 12:14 AM »
Correct, it actually goes to 48 degrees..

Found an english pdf in Japan  :) 


Hmm.. and in this they by chance list a green "competitor F" in the graphs..?  Then who is the red/pink competitor?  Anyone thinkin' of Hilti's railsystem?  ..dubios :-X
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 12:26 AM by mxlars »

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2008, 12:41 AM »
I don't think it's Hilti, I think there's another company out there with a proprietary saw/guide rail combo, I think their tool is black and red... I've just seen a picture or two, that's about it. By the way, did anybody think that DeWalt's rail looked eerily similar to the Hilti rail with the one rib down the middle?..... I suppose that soon Bosch and Milwaukee will have plunge saws soon too! Actually, I think I remember seeing a Bosch pendulum saw where the materials mention being compatible with a Bosch guide rail?
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Markus K.

  • Posts: 58
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2008, 05:45 AM »
The Competitor "M" is Mafell, also located in Germany. They have very good Plungesaws/ Railsystems, like the KSP40 with flexible Rail or the portable Panel Saw PPS 3100.

http://www.mafell.com/produkte/prod_saegen_i.htm
I'm from Grafenwoehr , Germany

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4318
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2008, 10:03 AM »
Looks similar but also looks like that is a universal motor that takes brushes.

Festool saw motors are universal brush motors too aren't they?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4318
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2008, 10:05 AM »
The Makita rail doesn't have the rubber splinter guard which IMO is the crux of the biscuit.

Offline mxlars

  • Posts: 25
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2008, 12:10 PM »
 :)  I'm getting the 'me too' feeling from these products, and I already have the TS55 + rails, but maybe i would have been more confused if I was in a buying situation today..  oh well, they are just copies anyways  ;D
Reminds me of all the similar tools appearing on the market when Fein's patent for the multicut/master ran out.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 696
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2008, 12:41 PM »
:)  I'm getting the 'me too' feeling from these products, and I already have the TS55 + rails, but maybe i would have been more confused if I was in a buying situation today..  oh well, they are just copies anyways  ;D
Reminds me of all the similar tools appearing on the market when Fein's patent for the multicut/master ran out.


Speaking of the Fein Supercut/Multimaster, I heard that Bosch is planning on releasing their own version in the USA sometime in the next year or two?.... I doubt it'd be able to compare to my Supercut, though!  :D
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline John Langevin

  • Posts: 245
  • Springfield, MA
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2008, 01:50 PM »
Have Festool's patents run out? If that isn't blatant product plagiarism I don't know what is! The handle shape, dust port, bevel setting, rail adjustment gibs etc., etc. The angle guide looks exactly the same as Festool, I wonder if it slips like the original too?
Practicing Mediocrity Never Begets Perfection

Offline Ned

  • Posts: 1147
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2008, 01:57 PM »
And according to the PDF mxlars found, some Makita saw models ship in Systainers!

There's no more sincere flattery than your competitors copying your product.

At least in the future we won't have to spend time explaining Festool's design concepts.  Instead we'll be explaining why Festool's the best implementation of those concepts, and the most economical choice for the long run.

Ned



Offline mxlars

  • Posts: 25
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2008, 01:59 PM »
Regarding the Fein cutter.. the Bosch has been around for a while, although wrong color yet - and similar tool is also available from any of the noname yellow/blue/black/red Chinese manufacturers sold in shopping malls priced from $30 for a kit w/blades and accessories..

Offline mxlars

  • Posts: 25
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2008, 03:10 PM »
Have Festool's patents run out? If that isn't blatant product plagiarism I don't know what is! The handle shape, dust port, bevel setting, rail adjustment gibs etc., etc. The angle guide looks exactly the same as Festool, I wonder if it slips like the original too?

Not sure if Festool had or could have a patent on the design, I havent updated myself on plungesaws in a while, but after looking some more I see most any manufacturer has some kind of railsystem now(even cordless Hilti 36v) + various universal (looking like) 'spinoff' tracksystems with a sole for most any std. circular saw..

Hope I can be proud to say I have the original and best for some more time  ::)

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2008, 04:18 PM »
The Competitor "M" is Mafell, also located in Germany. They have very good Plungesaws/ Railsystems, like the KSP40 with flexible Rail or the portable Panel Saw PPS 3100.

http://www.mafell.com/produkte/prod_saegen_i.htm


Does anyone know if the Mafell blades will fit the arbor or Festool's TS 55 saw?  For their PSS 3100 (Panel Saw System 3100 mm length guide rail), Mafell lists the blade diameter at 160 mm and the arbor hole diameter at 20 mm.  I did not see any data on blade body or kerf thickness.  I also note that Mafell advertises their PSS to be suitable for use in cutting ceramic boards, and offers two different diamond blades.   Is this European material similar to what we in USA specify for backerboard under wall tiles in a bathroom?  Similar to Hardiboard (cement board) siding?  Is the price of Mafell blades comparable to that of Festool blades?  Mafell also claims their PSS generates very little airborne dust. 

Dave R.

Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Christian A.

  • Posts: 77
  • Austria
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2008, 05:55 PM »
Hi Dave,

Does anyone know if the Mafell blades will fit the arbor or Festool's TS 55 saw?  For their PSS 3100 (Panel Saw System 3100 mm length guide rail), Mafell lists the blade diameter at 160 mm and the arbor hole diameter at 20 mm.  I did not see any data on blade body or kerf thickness. 

At least Mafell's smaller diameter (such as 160 mm) saw blades are very thin compared to Festool. According to my Mafell catalogue, the 160 mm dia blades designed for the KSS 400, the PSS 3100 SE, the KST 55, the MS 55 and the KSP 55 are only 1.2 mm thick (body), the cutting kerf is 1.8 mm wide. As a consequence, I wouldn't use a Mafell blade in a Festool saw along with a Festool guide rail if the guide rail splinter guard was trimmed with a Festool blade inserted in the saw.

Hope this helps,

Christian
This message was written by Christian Aufreiter, student and hobby woodworker living in Austria.
NO AFFILIATION with Festool and Christian O., who is another member of this forum.

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2008, 10:27 PM »
Thanks.  Have you tried any of those Mafell blades on a Festool saw?  A thinner kerf means less waste, but often more vibration which can cause a rough cut edge.  However, I have had good experiences with thinner kerf 10" blades on my older table saw (1 1/8 HP) provided I use some large diameter (about 3 inches) precision ground blade stabilizing washers.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline The Woodentop

  • Posts: 238
  • Buxton, England
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2008, 06:10 AM »
It's a copy alright....what flattery!
Never assume you know....only know you know

Offline mxlars

  • Posts: 25
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2008, 10:55 AM »
Just to pass time..but maybe this tries to copy Hilti's cordless plunge? 

Anyhoo here it is :


http://www.dewalt.co.uk/powertools/productdetails/catno/DC351KL

festeringtool

  • Guest
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2008, 11:09 AM »
Who did festool copy when they came up with a circular saw................ pillocks!

Offline mxlars

  • Posts: 25
Re: Hmm.. seen this somewhere else before?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2008, 11:52 AM »
For the plunge action, maybe they watched framers freehand plunging their Skilsaw/Wormdrives and thinking it *could* be unsafe?  ;)