Author Topic: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought  (Read 1474 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 93
Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« on: July 25, 2020, 06:33 AM »
So I've invested in enough power tools (for now! ::) )
The other most used ( and deficient) tool set I have are my hand planes. I have a stanley block plane that is just about OK.

My smoothing plane is junk I have decided. I have just spent a lot of money on a set of waterstones (£150) and the Veritas Mk2 system (£170) and spent hours putting an edge on the blade. Tried it on some oak and the blade edge disappeared in seconds. The adjustment mechanisms aren't good either so that plane is bound for the bin.

I've never used waterstones before and was surprised by the wear in the 400 stone after about an hour of hard work on the two blades. So it seems I now need a lapping stone - more money.

I do like the Veritas honing system.

So to progress I need a new smoothing plane and more investment in grinding and honing equipment. I'm used to a no4.

Options in the UK seems be Veritas (big choice of blade steel!), Clifton & Lie-Nielsen. I think I'm wanting a plane that I wont be using everyday, but when I do I need it to have kept its edge. I work with ash, oak and beech mostly. Opinions please! Looks like £200 to £300.

And then to honing. Do I really have to spend £200 on a lapping plate for my waterstones? Or should I have bought a machine (another £500?) to do the bulk of the work first? If so which?

My chisels  all need some 'tlc' and so whatever route I go forward with the need to be catered for.

Please help with a) selecting a plane and b) building up a capability to keep it and my other blades at peak condition.
Retired engineer/scientist

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2020, 07:16 AM »
For me the Work Sharp 3000 has been useful. Makes quick work of maintaining chisels and plane blades up to 2" wide.

https://www.worksharptools.com/shop/woodworking/woodworking-sharpener/woodworking-tool-sharpener-ws3000/

https://youtu.be/UmMwIKzUagQ?t=20

« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 07:23 AM by Bob D. »
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online kevinculle

  • Posts: 337
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2020, 07:58 AM »
Google Scary sharp...quick, low cost and reliable method for sharpening edge tools with supply kits widely available including Amazon.

Online MikeGE

  • Posts: 97
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2020, 08:47 AM »
Sharpening...finally a subject for which there is universally one shared opinion on how to do it correctly and the necessary equipment.   [big grin]


Offline Gerald_D

  • Posts: 340
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2020, 08:56 AM »
I have a LN 4-1/2 and love it- I have heard good things about Clifton but have no experience with them.   The only experience with Veritas is with their low-angle block plane- it has an adjustable throat and do use that regularly.  I got the 4-1/2 instead of the 4 for a few reasons: 1) fits my hand better, 2) little extra weight, and 3) has same width frog and blade as other planes that I want to add to my collection and will give me options between regular and high-angle frogs.

I've tried a number of things for sharpening- have a Worksharp (which I haven't used in quite a while), waterstones, and Trend diamond plates.  I now use a combination of the Trend Diamond plate (1000) then finish with the waterstones, sometimes doing some work with the 4000 and then finishing with the 8000.  I have a Shapton 16000 grit on order and hoping to use that to finish instead of the 8000.  I recently found Rob Cosman on Youtube and have learned a lot- not only about sharpening but use of hand tools in general (which is an area I'm lacking and want to do hand-cut dovetails).  I've tried his method of hand sharpening- very leery at first- but it really does work.  I've learned a lot from David Charlesworth videos, as well as sharpening videos on Lie-Nielsen's website. 

Good luck and happy hunting!

Regards,
Gerald

Edit:  I do have a DMT lapping plate used to flatten the waterstones.  It was expensive but does a great job.  There are many opinions on sharpening (as with everything else)- best thing is to get information from a number of sources, then do what you are comfortable with and your budget allows. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 09:18 AM by Gerald_D »
Gerald
I have Festools- Big and Small and a few other tools

Offline adamcian

  • Posts: 2
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2020, 09:13 AM »
As [mention]MikeGE [/mention]aptly pointed out, opinions on sharpening are incredibly varied and highly subjective. You just have to find what works for you.

As a fellow Festool buyer, I’m assuming you’re not shy with your budget. So with that in mind, for me it’s always ‘buy once, cry once.’ My 2c: Buy yourself a couple gorgeous Lie Nielsen planes and invest in the Tormek for sharpening. While I wish I didn’t have to spend as much, I’ve never once said “I wish I hadn’t bought this.”

I started with their Bronze No 4, a No. 62 Low-angle Jack and a small No. 60 1/2 block plane. With that you’ll have everything you need to compliment your power tools. It’s an awesome start to a collection that you can add to over time if you get more interested. It’s a slippery slope though from there, so be careful :)

With sharpening, keep your stones and honing guide to use for more ‘tune up’ sharpening to keep a great edge, but I love a true rotating Tormek stone to do base grinding first. The T4 is an awesome little unit and should be all you need, I just happen to have the bigger T8. It’s also an ecosystem you can invest in over time with new jigs as your needs evolve (turning tools, chisels, kitchen/edc knives, etc.) Shoot, sharpen your kitchen knives on it once and you’ll forget the cost.

Welcome to the fun rabbit hole of hand tools. Enjoy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4108
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2020, 09:29 AM »
Lol.  @AstroKeith If you check out the hand tool sub-forum (the next one after other tools and accessories), you will see some threads on the topic, including this recent one

Short answer is yes, you will need some sort of lapping plate for your waterstones.  Since I use Shapton ceramic stones for final honing, I just recently decided to invest in a large DMT lapping plate, but up until then I had been using a cheaper substitute -- I think for regular waterstones, you can get away with something like a Norton flattening stone.  But someone else should confirm, as I have never used traditional waterstones.  I mainly use DMT stones, which relieve you of the burden of flattening.

You can't go wrong with a Lie-Nielsen smooth plane.  My go to smoother right now is a LN 4 1/2 with a 55 degree frog, which allows me to work on most grains, with a few exceptions, without tearout.  I like the extra width and heft of the 4 1/2 vs the 4, but it's ultimately a matter of preference.  I also prefer the iron body to the bronze option that LN offers for the 4 and below, in case you're considering those options -- I just find it moves across the wood a bit better than than the bronze, but again, preferences may vary.  Some people are really into a Low angle no. 4 smoother, which both LN and Veritas offer, because of the adjustability of the mouth and different blade options.  I have the LN version, but I don't reach for it that often, and only use it for smaller, lighter work.  I just find it to be too light for a smoothing plane, and adjustability is not really a feature for me, since I like to keep the plane in the same configuration once I have found the optimal settings.

You will see in the linked thread a bunch of different answers about sharpening -- I ultimately settled on the LN homing guide, after using the Worksharp and the Veritas.

The reason to get a machine is to facilitate repairing badly chipped blades or resetting the bevel on an iron, both of which take a very long time working by hand.  The problem is that machines won't achieve as fine an edge as you get with stones, so it's not really an either/or, but instead a both/and.  Since I use lathe chisels, I decided to invest in a Tormek, but if you're just doing plane irons and chisels, you could just get a cheaper grinder for fast material removal.

I would highly recommend checking out the sharpening techniques tab on the blog maintained by someone who contributes regularly to the forum @derekcohen .  In particular, his technique for sharpening the chipbreaker effects a miracle transformation in reducing tearout. 


Sharpening...finally a subject for which there is universally one shared opinion on how to do it correctly and the necessary equipment.   [big grin]
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T 18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TID 18 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1968
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2020, 09:42 AM »
The PV11 blades are probably the most durable option you have, but consider at least getting used to the idea that you’ll be running the blades over a really fine stone with each session to keep the edges working their best.  It won’t take long once you get the hang of it.  But if you let the edges go, you’ll be doing more work less often and working with a less than ideal blade.  I don’t think you gain much extending the times between sharpening.  Whatever you get should be miles better than what you just described with the Stanley. 

As for the rest, Mike and others are right.  Lots of ways, each has their own favorite, each at different price points.  Pick one and run with it.
-Raj

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1558
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2020, 09:56 AM »
Atoma diamond plates
Japanese water stones, some use a Nagura stone to create a slurry with a 8K stone.
Stropping.

I also use a Tormek, Scary Sharp with PSA paper, and green compound for stropping. 

Surgical sharp is your friend.

Rock on. 



Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 2002
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2020, 01:10 PM »
I spent years and quite a bit of money trying to find a power sharpening system. I bought the Tormek 20+ years ago and found that it was difficult to get good at it with their jigs (which now have been improved in many ways).

I bought the Worksharp 3000 and found that it did get chisels and blades sharp but there were other drawbacks.

I finally just started hand sharpening and honing. I invested in some diamond plates for the coarse sharpening grits and Shapton Glass Stones for the fine grits (2,000, 3,000, 4,000, and 8,000). I now use these with  the Lie-Nielsen honing guide. I flatten my Shapton stones with the DMT Dia-Flat plate. With the combination of these plates, stones, the LN guide, and the DMT flattening plate, I get results that I wouldn't have dreamed of before. I'm still learning, but my chisels and plane blades are extremely sharp. Plus, honing a microbevel on these blades allows me to get them sharp again quickly on usually just the 4,000, and 8,000 Shapton stones.

I still own my Tormek and use it to sharpen my turning gouges and scrapers. I have also bought Tormek's diamond wheels and use them sometimes on chisels also if they need significant regrinding.

I don't really recommend the Tormek. It's expensive and you can get similar results for plane blades and chisels with a good slower speed grinder. Much cheaper and the results, with a good wheel, are excellent.

In the end, I found that hand sharpening, for the most part, gives me the best results.
Randy

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 661
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2020, 03:10 PM »
I have an old Rapier plane that I thought was junk.  However I got a new blade for it:

https://www.axminstertools.com/samurai-japanese-laminated-plane-blade-50mm-2-510019

and followed one of the many videos on tuning a plane, starting with flattening the sole.  It has made a huge difference, such that I can't honestly justify the Veritas or Lie-Nielsen plane which I was considering.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 334
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2020, 03:31 PM »
Thinking about new plane blades, I recently got a new blade and chip breaker for my #6 plane from:

Hock Tools

It was a very good upgrade from the blade and chip breaker that was probably original with the plane.

Bob

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3093
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2020, 04:36 PM »
What? Multiple opinions on sharpening! Surely not.

I think I get the prize for having tried the most sharpening methods/machines.

Tormek (dusty), Worksharp (dusty), DMT stones (dusty), Lie Nielsen waterstones (used a lot). Almost all my planes are LN as are the chisels I use the most. The LN guide used with their angle setting jig and their waterstones produce scary sharp edges. I do use the LN Dia-Flat stone for flattening the waterstones.
Birdhunter

Offline mrFinpgh

  • Posts: 409
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2020, 12:41 AM »
I don't think you will go wrong with a Veritas or Lie Nielsen smoothing plane. 

I'm also a fan of Shapton stones, although my 8000 is a Naniwa.  I flatten them all with a norton flattening stone and it works fine for me.

I sharpen freehand and that works fine for me, but honing guides are very useful sometimes.  I just bought the LN guide to try and see whether it can facilitate more consistency when doing things like double bevel sharpening.  The really important thing is to develop a sense of feel and sight for sharpness.  Even with excellent eyesight, it took me a long time to really learn to 'see' the edge of a blade in a way that meant anything useful.

Most blades will dull eventually over time. I don't think this is a problem as long as you have a good consistent approach to getting it back to sharp without much interruption. It usually takes me about 5 minutes at most unless I've really gone too long or somehow rolled the edge.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 468
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2020, 10:48 AM »
I bet you wished you had never asked the question  [big grin]

Regards from Perth

Derek

p.s.  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp.html

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 93
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2020, 11:49 AM »
Thanks everyone for the advice.

For better or worse I've gone for

Lie-Nielson no4 Iron
Clifton low angle block plane
DMT Diaflat-95 lapping plate

Reasoning - seems I couldn't go wrong with LN no4. Cant get one of their block planes over here at the moment, plus Clifton seem very well regarded and are made in the UK. Thought I'd be patriotic and give them a try.
I don't think I do enough to need a machine yet, and it seems I'd still need my stones for finishing and touching up, so adding a flattening plate now seemed essential.
Retired engineer/scientist

Online MikeGE

  • Posts: 97
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2020, 04:31 PM »
You should be happy with the LN #4.  With the exception of a shoulder plane, all of my planes are LN.  A good source for LN planes in Germany is Dictum, and they ship to the UK.

If he's still teaching after the current crisis is over, you might consider taking the one-week Tool Tuning Course offered by David Charlesworth in Devon.  I've taken all of his courses, and they are worth the money.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3093
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2020, 05:57 PM »
Suggest buying the LN guide. The LN site has directions for making the angle setting jig. I have found the LN irons need honing out of the box. Their site has good videos on setting the iron so it cuts evenly side to side. Properly sharpened and set correctly, I can cut shavings that are thin enough to be translucent.
Birdhunter

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 301
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2020, 12:38 AM »
For planes, Clifton, Lie Nielsen, Veritas are all good choices.  All quality.  As mentioned by several others, one of your problems is the low quality plane iron in your planes.  The iron is what does the cutting.  So it has to, needs to be, quality steel to cut sharp and hold an edge.  The quality planes you mentioned all come with quality irons.  And you can get high quality replacement irons to fit any old plane.  As for sharpening, I like the machine powered methods.  The ones that spin a disk of sandpaper.  Just easier and quicker than hand methods.  Even with the powered spinning sandpaper, you will still need to do some final hand sharpening.  But the powered spinning sandpaper can do most of the tedious grunt work.  Think about sharpening turning tools.  Everyone uses a powered grinder wheel.  You could get the tools much sharper if you sharpened them by hand with files and stones.  But no one does that.  Sharp enough in a few seconds is good enough.  That's kind of how I feel about plane and chisel sharpening.  Get them sharp enough quickly with the power machines.  Then maybe spend a few minutes to really fine tune the sharpness.  Remember your goal is to use the tool to cut wood.  Your goal is not to put the sharpest, prettiest, smoothest edge possible on the blade.  How the wood turns out is important.  Not how you got the wood finished.

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 93
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2020, 06:45 AM »
So I made a simple jig so that I could use my belt sander to do the initial clean up. I figured that although I have a DMT plate coming tomorrow it was too much to expect to true-up three planes and 15 chisels on the coarse waterstone.

This has worked well with very little time needed on the coarse stone before progressing to honing.

Now I'm retired I'm almost looking forward to spending considerable time fine honing my blades. Looks like I wont need a Tormek after all. Thats at least £600 'saved' I can spend on a another new toy  ::).

I'm going to use the new LN & Clifton planes (they arrive tomorrow) for a little while and see if I need anything else.

Amusingly I came across Holtey planes in my buying search. £5,000 to £7,000 for a hand plane! Does anyone have one of these or similar - not that I'm considering one, just curious.
Retired engineer/scientist

Offline jcrowe1950

  • Festool Dealer Affiliate
  • *
  • Posts: 68
    • Woodcraft Chattanooga, TN
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2020, 04:53 PM »
Thanks everyone for the advice.

For better or worse I've gone for

Lie-Nielson no4 Iron
Clifton low angle block plane
DMT Diaflat-95 lapping plate


    I am envious of your choice of the Clifton block plane. It is a beauty and quite pricey in the U.S. It also has a number of great features that you will enjoy for many years. My first high quality plane was/is a Clifton #6 bench plane. At that time I got it from Woodcraft for a pittance relatively speaking. I was taking a class from Paul Sellers around that time (when we both lived in Texas) and he was very impressed...in fact he offered to buy it from me.

   As to sharpening, the one, true way is whatever suits you longterm. I started with scary sharp and still use it to restore old blades. Once I have blades in decent shape, I use water stones and/or diamond plates. I always use a strop as the final step.
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 603
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2020, 05:26 PM »
Just to buck the trend slightly I have one of the Faithfull diamond hones. 400 grit one side and 1000 the other.
The 400 side is great for lapping a waterstone and the Faithfull hone comes with an adjustable holder thats good for holding my waterstone.

Planes? This subject is a bit like Which twostroke oil is best so I'll just say which I use a lot.

I have a Stanley 5 1/2 jackplane with a choice of blades, a Samurai Brand laminated, a Veritas PMV-11, several old Sweetheart laminated blades. This plane is a real workhorse and depending on the camber of the blade I put in it can ease a firedoor or can be used in the centre of a big panel to smooth it neatly.

Veritas Low Angle Block Plane. Again a real workhorse, better with two blades, one at about 27 degrees, good for endgrain and nice raising grain, the other at a much higher angle for grain thats dropping into the wood.
Then I have a nice little No 3 Record with a Mujingfang blade that has the cutting edge inch or so made from High Speed Steel. I kind of use this like a beast of a blockplane or a lightweight, handy smoother.
I have a Woden (you read it right Woden was a British manufacturer which at one point was owned by Record) No4 which is OK I guess, err, I hardly use that size, not quite wide enough to do a firedoor edge and too wide for the nice Mujingfang blade.

For nice wood (as opposed to work jobs where I might encounter plywood which is pretty abrasive) I have recently bought a couple of wooden European horned planes. More specifically a Lignum Vitae soled smoothing plane made by a Dutch company called ABC and another is a toothing plane, again with a Lignum sole.

I've been told for years that wooden planes were hard to use and setup but I'm finding them surprisingly good. Watched a few Youtube vids about them and really it's not rocket science.

Also I bought a wooden jointer plane from my local secondhand place. Its 22" long, looks like it's been left in a shed for a long time, has a crack in the front but then it also has a very thick Norris iron and a capiron.
It cost me five quid but its bleedin marvelous. I had to flatten its sole a bit but I have handplanes for that.
Try flattening a Stanley No 7 or 8 and see how long it takes you.


Oh and I forgot, I bought the cheapest thing I could on Ebay a while ago, to use as a scrrubplane can't remember what make it is but it claims to be a No 2 although its basically the same size as a Record No 3 I have.
No chipbreaker and I reprofiled the blade to a tight camber then opened the mouth up with a file. I launched the original tension screw into the skip and fitted a wingbolt cos it doesn't need a screwdriver.
All dead easy to do and using it across the grain at 45 degrees then 45 degrees the other way is an absolute dream, fast and effective. Think it cost me eight quid.



Scrubs aren't a precision tool, I just don't need Veritas or Lie Nielsen levels of machining on it.

With those I feel able to attack large wide surfaces, the kind of thing everyone else wants to do with a router sled.
Thing is I have routers and could knock up a sled in a fairly short amount of time but I just cant stand using them, it takes the enjoyment out of hobby work for me but I actually like using handplanes.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 749
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2020, 04:27 AM »
I once made decent money and tried to get into hand tool wood working at the very same time.  Trust me when I tell you: Lie Nielsen and then Veritas and a very faaaarrr behind them is Clifton.   I did own one of the newer black Cliftons and it wasn’t bad, just not close to Lie Nielsen.  I like Lee Valley and Veritas a lot, but for your general Stanley style 4 and 5...I think Lie Nielsen is the way to go.  Don’t waste your time on the weird low angles and wide soles and bronze bodies.  The plain jane iron sole regular no. 4 from Lie Nielsen is perfect.  Get a no. 5 with it.  Start with one of those two.  Don’t get too invested in lusting over the various planes because most of them are useless.  The Veritas router plane and then a medium or large shoulder plane from Lie Nielsen or Veritas can follow suit.    If you buy Lie Nielsen and Veritas, you do not need a honing guide.  Polish the back with a very high grit and then follow their angle honing the other side.  I’ve owned German and Japanese wooden planes and I’m not fond of them.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 749
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2020, 04:39 AM »
Quote
Amusingly I came across Holtey planes in my buying search. £5,000 to £7,000 for a hand plane! Does anyone have one of these or similar - not that I'm considering one, just curious.

The further you dive, the more you’ll find that there is indeed a weird strange world of hand plane collectors that is possibly larger than the amount of hand plane users. After all, there is a reason you had to resort to buying new products from Lie Nielsen and Clifton.  It certainly wasn’t woodworkers that bought up all of the useable Stanley, Record and Preston examples.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3093
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2020, 05:32 AM »
“If you buy Lie Nielsen and Veritas, you do not need a honing guide.”

I disagree with this statement. Some gifted people can hone a blade free hand and some less gifted (like me) need a repeatable guide. The LN guide with my home made angle setting guide make it simple to set the gage and blade to the perfect angle.

The LN guide works with my chisels, plane irons, and my angled plane irons. I don’t think the Veritas guide does angled plane irons. Could be wrong on that last statement.
Birdhunter

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 93
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2020, 06:12 AM »
I don’t think the Veritas guide does angled plane irons. Could be wrong on that last statement.

I bought the Veritas mk2 'system", which has two holders - a self-centering one for blades up to 1.5", and another that will take up to 2.5". It has two roller assemblies, one straight the other with a camber if needed for plane blades. The roller is mounted offset so by a simple knob rotation a small micro-bevel can be added at the final stage. It has an angle setting widget that also sets the blade square to the jig. I really like it. There is no was I am hand honing now!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 06:23 AM by AstroKeith »
Retired engineer/scientist

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 93
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2020, 11:10 AM »
Thanks again for all the advice, comments, opinions...

The block plane arrived and after 5 mins of gentle honing it was ready to go. Its just what I was wanting. Its nice and heavy and suits my hand perfectly. The walnut handle is a perfect fit in my palm and feels good.

The machining and finishing is exquisite and the adjustable mouth insert is almost invisible its so tight and flush. The norris adjuster has no backlash discernible. The sole and blade are of course absolutely flat as you would expect. The blade is cryogenically hardened.

I'm happy so far ;D The LN No4 arrives this evening.

« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 04:31 AM by AstroKeith »
Retired engineer/scientist

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 2002
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2020, 11:15 AM »
Honing guides are an easy, repeatable way to get the same results every time, regardless of whether you are reforming a primary bevel or just honing a secondary bevel. Many professional furniture makers and woodworkers use them. I need a guide to hone and sharpen because I don't do it frequently. I spent many years trying to find a system which gets blades sharp easily and consistently. I now own a Lie-Nielsen guide and get the best results of my life with a combination of coarse diamond plates and some Shapton Glass Stones for the finer grits. I've tried the Veritas MKII guides (still own it) but the Lie-Nielsen guide is the best for those chisels and blades that it will hold (not all since it's made by LN for LN tools).Sharpening and honing without a guide just makes life more difficult (at least for me). @Birdhunter
Randy

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 93
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2020, 01:32 PM »
And just had a first try out with the new lapping plate and Lie-Nielsen no4

I can see why the lapping plate is worth the money. 15 minutes work and all 4 waterstones were back true. Safe to put my new plane blades on the stones!

I think the LN no4 is a real nice build of the good old Stanley design. No frills just excellent quality and all the features are there. I can see me buying an extra high angle frog for those tricky grains. As it will be worked hard I think the LN was a good choice.

I cant really compare a LN no4 with a Clifton block plane. Both are excellent quality, the LN is clearly mass produced but seeing as it will be a workhorse thats fine. The Clifton shows it's hand finishing and slight edge on quality and I will enjoy using it more like a special friend. That walnut handle is so right.

I've ordered a leather strop and compounds. I think I have definitely moved my honing skills up a notch this week!
Retired engineer/scientist

Offline jcrowe1950

  • Festool Dealer Affiliate
  • *
  • Posts: 68
    • Woodcraft Chattanooga, TN
Re: Hand plane & sharpening advice sought
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2020, 10:03 PM »
And just had a first try out with the new lapping plate and Lie-Nielsen no4

I can see why the lapping plate is worth the money. 15 minutes work and all 4 waterstones were back true. Safe to put my new plane blades on the stones!

I think the LN no4 is a real nice build of the good old Stanley design. No frills just excellent quality and all the features are there. I can see me buying an extra high angle frog for those tricky grains. As it will be worked hard I think the LN was a good choice.

I cant really compare a LN no4 with a Clifton block plane. Both are excellent quality, the LN is clearly mass produced but seeing as it will be a workhorse thats fine. The Clifton shows it's hand finishing and slight edge on quality and I will enjoy using it more like a special friend. That walnut handle is so right.

I've ordered a leather strop and compounds. I think I have definitely moved my honing skills up a notch this week!

   I have both LN and Veritas block planes and I assure you, the Clifton is every bit their equal. I also have a good number of other LN and Veritas planes in various configurations.....I even have a bronze LN #4 smoother with a York pitch frog. What I like about the newer implementations of bevel up planes is that you can buy a plane and change the angle of the planing edge by just buying a new blade and grinding it to a different angle. So, welcome to a rabbit hole perhaps more compelling than Festool tools. Again, dang, I envy your Clifton block plane purchase.
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN