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Online 4nthony

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Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« on: June 16, 2022, 01:46 PM »
I was on the Hammer site and added an A3 31 to my cart, entered my addresses, and was kinda shocked:



$1300 for shipping?

Do these ship directly from Austria? Shipping price seems excessive, considering there's a Felder showroom 20 odd miles from my home. I made a couple calls to Felder but have been getting disconnected after listening to a few minutes of their hold music.

For those of you who have ordered from Hammer, were your shipping charges similarly priced?
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Offline rvieceli

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2022, 02:41 PM »
I think that Felder's main US presence is in Delaware. Basically across the whole country for you. Shipping rates have gone up significantly lately.

There is a used A3-31 listed up in Monterey if you don't mid a road trip. It's been listed for a month, so they might be willing to negotiate a bit.

https://monterey.craigslist.org/tls/d/seaside-hammer-12-jointer-planera3-31/7486675640.html



Ron

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2022, 04:26 PM »
Thanks for that link! I'll have to strongly consider it and figure out what it would take to get it down here.

As for shipping prices, I'm used to the prices I usually see on Grizzly.com and was expecting something in the vicinity. For a 1700lb 16" jointer their freight charge is only $425. Maybe Grizzly just does a lot more volume and can negotiate better pricing from their shippers?

*EDIT: Hammer is no longer available.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 04:42 PM by 4nthony »
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Offline rvieceli

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2022, 05:50 PM »
Bummer on the used one. Grizzly has two distribution centers. One in Bellingham Washington and the other in Springfield Missouri. Closer

Ron

Offline wopchop

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2022, 07:45 PM »
Shipping prices are certainly insane right now, but it sounds like an error.

I just estimated the cost to ship an A3-31 from Felder Canada in Winnipeg Manitoba (or Nanaimo, BC maybe?) to Toronto, and it was $359 CAD.

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2022, 09:50 PM »
Shipping prices are certainly insane right now, but it sounds like an error.

I just estimated the cost to ship an A3-31 from Felder Canada in Winnipeg Manitoba (or Nanaimo, BC maybe?) to Toronto, and it was $359 CAD.

Interesting. I wasn't able to get through on the phone today. I'll try again tomorrow see if it's a real price or simply an error.

I'm also researching other combo units and I noticed CWI ships their Scorpion 12" and 16" jointer-planers for $150.
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Offline Peter Kelly

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2022, 11:37 PM »
For less, you could fly to Italy and import something yourself: https://www.makxilia.biz/prodotto/legno/combinata-filo-spessore/combinata-filo-spessore-scm-group-minimax-fs30-g/

Insane what Felder charges.

Online Alanbach

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2022, 01:28 AM »
The salespeople in the office that covers your area probably put together container loads of equipment for presale. When they do that they offer reduced freight and sometimes reduced prices on the equipment. I say this based on emails I have received from my salesperson in Texas. Call the area office and find a salesperson to deal with. See what they can do for you. In my experience you don’t want to just buy from them online if you want the best deal.

Offline Mini Me

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2022, 07:50 AM »
For less, you could fly to Italy and import something yourself: https://www.makxilia.biz/prodotto/legno/combinata-filo-spessore/combinata-filo-spessore-scm-group-minimax-fs30-g/

Insane what Felder charges.

At a guess that would be 415V 3 phase. Someone on the Festool forum calling out Felder for high prices seems a bit odd.

Online JimH2

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2022, 07:57 AM »
For less, you could fly to Italy and import something yourself: https://www.makxilia.biz/prodotto/legno/combinata-filo-spessore/combinata-filo-spessore-scm-group-minimax-fs30-g/

Insane what Felder charges.

At a guess that would be 415V 3 phase. Someone on the Festool forum calling out Felder for high prices seems a bit odd.

A cheapest SawStop ICS configuration with the large slider just over $7K.

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2022, 11:07 AM »
Someone on the Festool forum calling out Felder for high prices seems a bit odd.

Just to clarify, the topic of the thread is about shipping prices, not tool prices.

A cheapest SawStop ICS configuration with the large slider just over $7K.

Shipping for an ICS is around $650.



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Offline Peter Kelly

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2022, 01:12 PM »
I wonder if it'd be simpler to stop by their showroom to speak to someone in person for a quote. I've been to their US HQ in Delaware, they had a fair number of machines on display, certainly helped in my decision process to see everything lined up side by side.

FYI - pre-covid, the lead times for buying anything other than parts from Felder was anywhere from 3-4 months. I don't think they stock too many machines in the US.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2022, 01:16 PM by Peter Kelly »

Offline gruz

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2022, 06:57 AM »
I would definitely speak with a rep.  I purchased one in January (I think it was tail end of a holiday sale?) and paid $5,240 with Xylent cutterhead, outfeed extension, and digital / numerical height gauge shipped with lift gate service. I’m in the Northeast and was told all the machines come in to the US through Atlanta. Should be arriving any day now… scheduling trucking for them has been challenging, but only a month later than their original timing estimate.

Offline macanter

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2022, 08:04 AM »
The shipping fees the OP mentioned are consistent with what I have seen recently for comparably machines.  BUT, for anyone thinking of having a large, heavy, expensive machine shipped by lift gate residential service, think twice.  I recently had an SCM Minimax SC3 Classic saw seriously trashed by Fedex Freight lift gate service.  It was refused and sent back to SCM, and the revised delivery for the "repaired" unit was done to my local SCM dealer.  I rented a drop deck trailer and picked it up without incident.

Residential lift gate is fine for 4' x 4' pallets, not so good for things bigger than that.  You also save the residential lift gate fees, and that more than pays for the rental of the drop deck trailer.  You can make arrangements to do the same at the local terminal of whatever freight company your shipper chooses to use.

Offline Aux2496

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2022, 12:04 PM »
The Felder-Group website uses standard e-commerce type shipping quotes (i.e. UPS Freight) and is good for small items under 100 lbs but obviously estimates extremely high for heavy machines.  I spoke with a Felder rep about this.  If Felder website shows shipping at $1,300, he could probably get a common carrier cost of about $600.  If you are close to a local Felder office (like 1-2 hours), then shipping could be around $300-350.  It's best if you work out a "customer pickup" at a Felder location.  There is no cost for shipping at that point.

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2022, 01:29 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback!  [cool]

The Felder-Group website uses standard e-commerce type shipping quotes (i.e. UPS Freight) and is good for small items under 100 lbs but obviously estimates extremely high for heavy machines.  I spoke with a Felder rep about this.  If Felder website shows shipping at $1,300, he could probably get a common carrier cost of about $600.  If you are close to a local Felder office (like 1-2 hours), then shipping could be around $300-350.  It's best if you work out a "customer pickup" at a Felder location.  There is no cost for shipping at that point.

Great info. Local freight would be ideal as there's a showroom nearby and I don't think I could manage a local pickup by myself.

I was researching other combo units over the weekend and came across the Jet JJP-12HH, which is more expensive than the Hammer but can be purchased on Amazon with free Prime shipping. It has some good reviews but one of the main complaints is it's difficult to align the tables. Many people also say the fit and finish on the Hammer is much nicer.

I've sent an email and left a voicemail with Hammer so hopefully will hear back from them today or tomorrow.

Also, I know helical heads are much quieter than straight blades. Is Hammer's "Silent Power" cutter head just marketing or has it actually been engineered to be quieter than other helical heads?
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Offline rvieceli

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2022, 02:05 PM »
@4nthony if you go the delivery route rather than pick up, make sure they fully explain what the scope of delivery is. Have heard some instances where the delivery folks will stick it in you shop, maybe drop it just outside your shop or drop it in the street at the end of your drive way. Big difference in hassle for you depending on the circumstance.

Ron

Offline MikeGE

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2022, 02:27 PM »
@4nthony if you go the delivery route rather than pick up, make sure they fully explain what the scope of delivery is. Have heard some instances where the delivery folks will stick it in you shop, maybe drop it just outside your shop or drop it in the street at the end of your drive way. Big difference in hassle for you depending on the circumstance.

Ron

Here's an example of how not to drop off a machine in the street.  This is a SCM FS 30S (not mine).





Offline rvieceli

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2022, 02:34 PM »
Shame, fairly obvious that the pallet was broken somewhere along its travels. Needs another bottom piece on the side facing out. If they would cared. they could have spun it 180 when they put it on the lift and that never would have happened.

Ron

Online JimH2

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2022, 02:37 PM »
@4nthony if you go the delivery route rather than pick up, make sure they fully explain what the scope of delivery is. Have heard some instances where the delivery folks will stick it in you shop, maybe drop it just outside your shop or drop it in the street at the end of your drive way. Big difference in hassle for you depending on the circumstance.

Ron

There are huge variations on this and sometimes you can request more than the basic delivery. Depending on the weight and what the delivery people have a $50 can go a long way. Too heavy and they probably would not attempt because they probably are forbidden from doing so and the Workmans comp might be a issue if they are doing more than they are supposed to.

Offline rmhinden

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2022, 02:43 PM »
For those of you who have ordered from Hammer, were your shipping charges similarly priced?

I purchased an A3-41 and it was delivered in August 2019.    The shipping cost was from their Sacramento CA warehouse was about $500.

The delivery went smoothy, the truck backed up into my driveway, off loaded it via truck lift gate, and use a pallet jack to move it into my garage.

I suggest you call your local Hammer/Felder rep and talk to him/her.    My experience was, of course, pre-pandemic.

PM me if you want the name of the person I worked with.

Bob



Offline Joelm

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2022, 04:18 PM »
Not an A3 31 but I did get a Felder FB 510 delivered last November for $525. I did not go through their website but directly from my local dealer. It was a very positive experience all around.

Offline festal

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2022, 04:36 PM »
You have to be careful with freight delivery companies. If anything looks off refuse it. Once you accept it, it’s hard to get any damage money from them. There are tilt indicators on crates which indicate if crate was tilted during travel. Some freight companies can replace them if they get tripped if they can see them. My tormach mill got damaged and because I didn’t know about these issues I didn’t get any money out of freight company


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Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2022, 08:53 AM »
For what it's worth, it looks like I paid ~$550 in shipping for my A3-41, delivered April 2020, to Minneapolis MN.

As Festal points out, Felder makes a point of insisting that you do not sign for a delivery if anything looks amiss. It's much easier to sort out damage if you refuse delivery. If you sign for delivery, it releases the shipping company from any liability, and leaves you holding the proverbial bag.

The Silent Power cutter head on the Hammer machines is nice, my understanding is that the same head goes into the Felder machines as well. Chips are nice and small, cutter noise is minimal, no louder than running my saw. That being said, I'd like to eventually bump up to the AD941, in which case there's a TERSA cutter head available which I'm seriously considering. Within the realm of sub-$10k machines, I don't think you could hope for much better than the Felder spiral cutter head.

Something you get with the Hammer (and Felder/Profil) machines that may be lacking in some of the other combo machines is support. While YMMV, I've experienced great support from the Felder technical service people, and there's an active Felder/Hammer/Profil forum with a wealth of knowledge about dialing-in the machines.

Something the Hammer machines offer that I do not think is an option on the Jet or Grizly machines is a mechanical DRO on the hand wheel. I have mine set up for MM, and I can get repeatability to within 0.1mm.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 09:04 AM by Tom Gensmer »
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Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2022, 03:00 PM »
For what it's worth, it looks like I paid ~$550 in shipping for my A3-41, delivered April 2020, to Minneapolis MN.

As Festal points out, Felder makes a point of insisting that you do not sign for a delivery if anything looks amiss. It's much easier to sort out damage if you refuse delivery. If you sign for delivery, it releases the shipping company from any liability, and leaves you holding the proverbial bag.


What typically happens if you don't sign for delivery? Do they return it back to Felder or leave it for you to work out the damage replacement with Felder? I've never not signed for a delivery. When my saw was delivered, the pallet was somewhat beat up but everything was so well wrapped that it would've been impossible to determine any damage without unwrapping everything.


The Silent Power cutter head on the Hammer machines is nice, my understanding is that the same head goes into the Felder machines as well. Chips are nice and small, cutter noise is minimal, no louder than running my saw. That being said, I'd like to eventually bump up to the AD941, in which case there's a TERSA cutter head available which I'm seriously considering. Within the realm of sub-$10k machines, I don't think you could hope for much better than the Felder spiral cutter head.


It's the reduction in noise that I'm primarily after and if it's in the range of what my saw produces, that would be great. I'm just learning about the Tersa cutters. Their site mentions them as being noise-reducing, which I thought was interesting, as they look like very similar to standard straight knives which I thought were the noisiest.
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Offline MikeGE

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2022, 03:42 PM »
It's the reduction in noise that I'm primarily after and if it's in the range of what my saw produces, that would be great. I'm just learning about the Tersa cutters. Their site mentions them as being noise-reducing, which I thought was interesting, as they look like very similar to standard straight knives which I thought were the noisiest.

My entry level Minimax FS 30G has the three-knife Tersa cutter block.  When I bought the FS 30G, I was considering the SCM Xylent cutter block, but my distributor recommended the Tersa option.  I found out later that they sold only one machine with the Xylent cutter block.  The customer was also a hobbyist and he later traded up for a larger machine with the Tersa cutter block.

All of the professional shops in my area use the Tersa cutter blocks, especially when time is money.  Paying an apprentice or junior employee to rotate and torque 40+ carbide cutters is not cost efficient when it takes the machine out of service.  I can change the three knives in my FS 30G in about one minute.

Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2022, 04:08 PM »
4nthony,

Unwrapping the machine prior to signing is precisely what Felder recommends. When the machinery leaves Felder it essentially becomes the property and responsibility of the freight company. When you sign for delivery, you are releasing all of the previous parties from responsibility for the condition of the machine, particularly any shipping damage. Every situation will be a little different, but refusing to sign should send the machine back to the shipping depot, where it will stay while the machinery company and the shipping company will work through their insurance carriers to assign responsibility and render a decision about recourse.

On my last Felder delivery, they insisted that if I saw even a slight ding on the pallet that I call their logistics line to discuss whether the machine may or may not be damaged. They also insisted that even if everything looked "good", that I take the time to cut away all of the plastic and/or remove the protective crating around the machines to confirm that they were indeed undamaged. The freight company should allow you to take the time to properly inspect the machine prior to signing.

I know that with the long lead times it can be tempting to just sign for the machine and deal with it later, but signing might mean months of delay on getting parts or service, whereas not signing can fast-track the process.

Finally, not all machinery can be delivered via lift gate service. I've received at least one machine that was too big/heavy for lift gate, and wouldn't fit on a drop deck trailer. We ultimately decided to go with a flatbed semi tractor rig with a piggyback forklift, which worked perfectly. Also remember that most freight companies are only obligated to get the machine off the gate, anything more than that is at the discretion of the driver. Having your own pallet jack ready can save you from having a machine left in the street.....
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 06:54 PM by Tom Gensmer »
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Offline StanB

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2022, 12:44 PM »
when i purchased an a331 and HS950 shipping was $500 to cinicinnati oh from delaware. 2019 and 2021, respectively.
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Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2022, 01:52 PM »
I really appreciate all the replies with advice about shipping and inspection.

I heard back from Hammer and the quoted shipping price on their site is way off. I was told it's usually around $500 which is on part with what has been suggested by you guys. I also asked about TERSA cutters vs the Silent Power and was told:

Quote
The Silent power cutter head is revolutionary. It is the quietest, give the best cut and uses 30% less horse power, The design was taken from carbide inset rebate shaper cutter. Tersa is getting to be a thing of the past. , No comparison

I'll still research this a bit more but the SP cutter will probably be OK for me. I've read about people going a year or two before rotating the cutters so I'm not worried about the extra time it'll take to do the rotation.
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Offline sawdustinmyshoes

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2022, 02:33 PM »
I love the silent power cutter . . . extremely quiet, small chips (less emptying the dust collection bin, but heavier).  But most of all, I appreciate the finish and longevity.  The spriral configuration combined with the small cuts results in an exceptionally smooth fiinish even in highly figured woods.  Also, I haven't rotated the inserts since I got the unit (7 or 8 years ago).  Granted I'm a hobbyest, but they've seen a fair bit of use and I work mostly in hardwoods (maple, cherry, oak, ash).  I estimate I would have swapped jointer and planer knives on my Grizzly jointer and Makita portable planer at least three to four times by now. 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 02:36 PM by sawdustinmyshoes »

Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2022, 03:00 PM »
I really appreciate all the replies with advice about shipping and inspection.

I heard back from Hammer and the quoted shipping price on their site is way off. I was told it's usually around $500 which is on part with what has been suggested by you guys. I also asked about TERSA cutters vs the Silent Power and was told:

Quote
The Silent power cutter head is revolutionary. It is the quietest, give the best cut and uses 30% less horse power, The design was taken from carbide inset rebate shaper cutter. Tersa is getting to be a thing of the past. , No comparison

I'll still research this a bit more but the SP cutter will probably be OK for me. I've read about people going a year or two before rotating the cutters so I'm not worried about the extra time it'll take to do the rotation.

4nthony,

The TERSA cutter heads are only available on the AD741 and higher machines, on the Hammer machines you're choosing between the standard Felder straight knife heads ("traditional" or self-setting), or the Silent Power spiral. In that realm, I'd absolutely choose the Silent Power. If you were stepping up to a 741 or 941, then the TERSA option opens up.....
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2022, 09:36 PM »
What is the advantage of TERSA? It just looks like 3 straight knives. They self register in the head?

Offline MikeGE

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2022, 05:35 AM »
What is the advantage of TERSA? It just looks like 3 straight knives. They self register in the head?

The number of knives in the cutter block depends on the size of the machine. Most have three knives, but some have four.

The disposable Tersa knives are double-sided, so when one edge is damaged or dull, it can be changed to the other cutting edge.  The knives lock into position as soon as the machine is started. 


To change a knife, I push it down with a small block of wood, or the SCM plastic tool.  The knife then slides out of the cutter block through an access hole in the side of the machine.  When installing a knife, it will go into the cutter block only one way.  The knife is slid into the cutter block until it is approximately centered in the slot. 

When all knives are in place, turn on the machine to set them.  They will not fly out and will be locked into place.  I can change the three knives in my FS 30G in about a minute.  SCM recommends running a short piece of wood through the machine to ensure the knives are set.

I have no idea how long the knives last because the machine is new to me.  A set of three replacement standard knives for my machine is about €30 and a set of three M42 HSS knives is about €47.

Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2022, 09:14 AM »
One of the other benefits of the TERSA cutter system is that there's a variety of blade alloys available, so you can match your blade composition to the wood/product you are processing. Off the top of my head, my memory is that the TERSA blades are available in HSS, M2, Chrome Steel, Carbide, and NaDia diamond coating, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Some blades are better suited for hardwoods, others for softwoods, others are well suited to processing dirty/gritty lumber which might damage/knick the knives.

As MikeGE points out, blade change takes about a minute or so.

I've also heard of users getting rather creative with their blade selection, using two or three blade styles on the same head to get the best qualities of different blade alloys.

I've also heard of users using shorter sections of TERSA blades and setting up their cutter block in sections, for instance the far side of the cutter block is set up with blades better suited for softwoods or dirty/rough lumber, while the near side of the head is loaded with blades better suited for long runs of hardwood.

Again, I'm currently enjoying my Felder Silent Power cutter block in my Hammer A3-41, it's a great cutter, but for more commercial/industrial applications the TERSA systems seems to have some advantages.

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Offline MikeGE

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2022, 09:53 AM »
The TERSA cutter heads are only available on the AD741 and higher machines, on the Hammer machines you're choosing between the standard Felder straight knife heads ("traditional" or self-setting), or the Silent Power spiral. In that realm, I'd absolutely choose the Silent Power. If you were stepping up to a 741 or 941, then the TERSA option opens up.....

This explains what I observed and confirms what my distributor told me.  I visited two commercial shops earlier this year, and each had the larger Felder machines.  One had two AD941s and the other had one AD941.  All of the machines had Tersa cutter blocks.

Offline rmhinden

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2022, 11:22 AM »
Again, I'm currently enjoying my Felder Silent Power cutter block in my Hammer A3-41, it's a great cutter, but for more commercial/industrial applications the TERSA systems seems to have some advantages.

Same for me, I have the Silent Power cutters on my Hammer A3-41.   I am very pleased with it.

Bob

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2022, 12:06 PM »
Things are moving forward. I'm in touch with a Hammer rep, getting my questions answered, and working on a quote.

For those of you with a Hammer A3, do you have any thoughts on their Rolling Carriage/Lifting Bar vs something like the Bora PM-3550? I added the Rolling Carriage to my quote but now I'm reconsidering and leaning towards the Bora as it seems to be more maneuverable though it has a slightly larger footprint.
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Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2022, 02:27 PM »
Things are moving forward. I'm in touch with a Hammer rep, getting my questions answered, and working on a quote.

For those of you with a Hammer A3, do you have any thoughts on their Rolling Carriage/Lifting Bar vs something like the Bora PM-3550? I added the Rolling Carriage to my quote but now I'm reconsidering and leaning towards the Bora as it seems to be more maneuverable though it has a slightly larger footprint.

I have the Hammer rolling carriage on my A3-41 and it's fine, easy to install and effective for moving the machine around.

Another option you didn't mention is a pallet truck. I have a 21" x 48" pallet truck and have found it to be the most effective, safe method for moving machinery around the shop. If you're looking at acquiring other, larger machinery it may be a worthwhile acquisition. Just a thought....
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Offline montyss

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2022, 08:51 PM »
I opted for the Hammer rolling carriage on my A3-31. For the other brand wheel kits they seemed to stick out to far on the front of the machine and maybe get in the way I had thought ( personal preference)  The other things you should add to the quote is the short 400 mm accessory table (part # 500-101) with the coupling bar (part # 500-102) and the  Height gauge Digital readout ( part # 01.1.202 ) also required for the Digital Height gauge is an Aluminum handwheel (part # 12.1.311) The Height gauge is a must have after using it once you will be hooked on ... its super accurate to return to a previous thickness setting. The Felder number above is for the Metric version, there is another one that is in inches   

Offline sawdustinmyshoes

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2022, 01:23 PM »
I opted for the Hammer rolling carriage on my A3-31. For the other brand wheel kits they seemed to stick out to far on the front of the machine and maybe get in the way I had thought ( personal preference)  The other things you should add to the quote is the short 400 mm accessory table (part # 500-101) with the coupling bar (part # 500-102) and the  Height gauge Digital readout ( part # 01.1.202 ) also required for the Digital Height gauge is an Aluminum handwheel (part # 12.1.311) The Height gauge is a must have after using it once you will be hooked on ... its super accurate to return to a previous thickness setting. The Felder number above is for the Metric version, there is another one that is in inches

I agree with all of these points/accessories and purchased the same with my machine.

Joe

Offline Aux2496

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2022, 03:08 PM »
I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:

Tersa vs Silent Power helical - if you choose Tersa straight blades, you better have one heck of a dust collection system (think 3+ HP Oneida or Clearvue).  The straight blades will create long shavings.  If you are jointing/planing a 13" wide board, the shavings will be as long as 13".  If you are doing a deep cut (i.e. 2-4 mm), then it will be worse.  The long shavings are actually heavy and a low power dust collector will not be able to pull them into the hose.  A 1100/1200 size basic dust collector is not going to be enough.  The shavings will stack up and end up clogging the hood outlet at some point.  If you get the Silent Power helical, this will not be as much of a problem because the shavings will only be about 1/2" in length and these are easier to pull into the dust collection hose.

Mobile base - I have read some people having problems with mobile base because the machine was generating vibrations and not being as stable.  Those seem to have better results with the Hammer rolling carriage which allows the machine to be set down completely on the floor.  The downside is maneuverability since you can only move the machine forward and backward.  Movement becomes awkward if you have to rotate and position the machine in small areas.  I'm sure the vibration issue doesn't affect everyone.

Offline MikeGE

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2022, 03:39 PM »
I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:

Tersa vs Silent Power helical - if you choose Tersa straight blades, you better have one heck of a dust collection system (think 3+ HP Oneida or Clearvue).  The straight blades will create long shavings.  If you are jointing/planing a 13" wide board, the shavings will be as long as 13".  If you are doing a deep cut (i.e. 2-4 mm), then it will be worse.  The long shavings are actually heavy and a low power dust collector will not be able to pull them into the hose.  A 1100/1200 size basic dust collector is not going to be enough.  The shavings will stack up and end up clogging the hood outlet at some point.  If you get the Silent Power helical, this will not be as much of a problem because the shavings will only be about 1/2" in length and these are easier to pull into the dust collection hose.

Mobile base - I have read some people having problems with mobile base because the machine was generating vibrations and not being as stable.  Those seem to have better results with the Hammer rolling carriage which allows the machine to be set down completely on the floor.  The downside is maneuverability since you can only move the machine forward and backward.  Movement becomes awkward if you have to rotate and position the machine in small areas.  I'm sure the vibration issue doesn't affect everyone.

I don't know where you are getting your information, but this has not been my experience.  I have never seen a long shaving from either of my jointer/planers.  I had a Holzmann with 260mm standard knives and now have the SCM FS 30G with 300mm Tersa knives.  The longest shaving I have seen in my dust bin was about 5mm, but most are much smaller.  If I disconnect the dust collection hose from my J/P, as has happened accidentally before, my floor is filled with small chips, not long strands of peeled wood.


Offline SouthRider

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2022, 04:48 PM »
DITTO on the silent power cutter head.ABSOLUTELY the quietest planer I have ever been around. You can still hold normal conversations next to the working machine.

It's definitely NOT just hype or marketing. There are huge gullets in front of the knives that whisk away the shavings - which keeps them from being pounded into the wood. Not just quiet, but smoother too.

Best part is that each knife has 4 carbide faces. If you hit a nail just use remove the screw, turn the knife 90 degrees and tighten the screw - ZERO knife setup necessary.

Check out the felder/hammer youtube videos - they are TRUE.

Had my A3-31 about 10 years and still LOVE it.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline Aux2496

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2022, 09:44 PM »
I don't know where you are getting your information, but this has not been my experience.  I have never seen a long shaving from either of my jointer/planers.  I had a Holzmann with 260mm standard knives and now have the SCM FS 30G with 300mm Tersa knives.  The longest shaving I have seen in my dust bin was about 5mm, but most are much smaller.  If I disconnect the dust collection hose from my J/P, as has happened accidentally before, my floor is filled with small chips, not long strands of peeled wood.

I have had personal experience with 15" planers using straight knives doing exactly that.  Putting out long 12" shavings into the 4" dust hood outlet and clogging it up.  In any event, a smallish 1100/1200 dust collector is not going to be effective with this 16" jointer/planer.  It will pull some chips/sawdust, but it will leave a lot behind.

Offline Peter Kelly

  • Posts: 140
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2022, 10:08 PM »
I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:

Tersa vs Silent Power helical - if you choose Tersa straight blades, you better have one heck of a dust collection system (think 3+ HP Oneida or Clearvue).  The straight blades will create long shavings.  If you are jointing/planing a 13" wide board, the shavings will be as long as 13".  If you are doing a deep cut (i.e. 2-4 mm), then it will be worse.  The long shavings are actually heavy and a low power dust collector will not be able to pull them into the hose.  A 1100/1200 size basic dust collector is not going to be enough.  The shavings will stack up and end up clogging the hood outlet at some point.  If you get the Silent Power helical, this will not be as much of a problem because the shavings will only be about 1/2" in length and these are easier to pull into the dust collection hose.
I've machines with a 16" and 12" 3-knife Tersa cutter head, neither require that level of dust collection power even planing a full 16". One setup is connected to a lowly modified HF blower, miles of wood planed and no issues for the last 4 years.

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 365
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2022, 10:42 PM »
I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:

Tersa vs Silent Power helical - if you choose Tersa straight blades, you better have one heck of a dust collection system (think 3+ HP Oneida or Clearvue).  The straight blades will create long shavings.  If you are jointing/planing a 13" wide board, the shavings will be as long as 13".  If you are doing a deep cut (i.e. 2-4 mm), then it will be worse.  The long shavings are actually heavy and a low power dust collector will not be able to pull them into the hose.  A 1100/1200 size basic dust collector is not going to be enough.  The shavings will stack up and end up clogging the hood outlet at some point.  If you get the Silent Power helical, this will not be as much of a problem because the shavings will only be about 1/2" in length and these are easier to pull into the dust collection hose.
I've machines with a 16" and 12" 3-knife Tersa cutter head, neither require that level of dust collection power even planing a full 16". One setup is connected to a lowly modified HF blower, miles of wood planed and no issues for the last 4 years.
I have a 16" FS41e, and my 1 1/2 hp Delta double bag unit could not handle it even with a trash can separator.  I did get very long shavings that would clog it quickly.  I upgraded to a 3hp Oneida V-3000 and have had no problems since then.  It wasn't just the dust collector itself I changed though, I also changed from 4" flex duct from a 120mm step down fitting, to a 120mm to 6" fitting to a 6" flex duct and then hard piped 6" to the collector (about 20').

Offline Aux2496

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2022, 02:51 AM »
I also changed from 4" flex duct from a 120mm step down fitting, to a 120mm to 6" fitting to a 6" flex duct and then hard piped 6" to the collector (about 20').

Can you point me to that 120mm to 6" fitting?

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 365
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2022, 07:43 AM »
I bought it from Oneida as part of the duct work system.  Part is DRH120060, "Heavy reducer 120mmID -6" crimp" it is on page 110 of their catalog: https://www.oneida-air.com/media/flippingbook/2101051417/109/

Charles

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2022, 11:59 AM »
Thanks again for all the feedback. Immensely helpful as always.  [cool]

I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:
...
Mobile base - I have read some people having problems with mobile base because the machine was generating vibrations and not being as stable.  Those seem to have better results with the Hammer rolling carriage which allows the machine to be set down completely on the floor.  The downside is maneuverability since you can only move the machine forward and backward.  Movement becomes awkward if you have to rotate and position the machine in small areas.  I'm sure the vibration issue doesn't affect everyone.

I received some feedback from a Woodworker on YouTube who uses a Bora 3500 mobile base and he commented that the machine was stable when in operation but would slide in the base when moving it around. To eliminate the sliding, he added a few shims to fill the gaps around the base.

The floor in my garage is pretty uneven. I've got two layers of 3/4" OSB sitting on top of what is basically a brick patio. 1940s bricks set in the ground. I watched a video about the Rolling Carriage and it looks like they supply two leveling feet for the front of the unit which I'll definitely need. Once I've put the machine in place, I probably won't be moving it around very often. I guess I just need to decide if the forward-back motion of the carriage is OK (probably) or if I really need the added mobility of the Bora (doubtful).

Thanks all!


« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 04:34 PM by 4nthony »
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Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 618
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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2022, 01:31 PM »
Anthony, if you do not plan to move the machine, then stick with the Hammer system. It is stable, low profile, and does the job when needed. If you move a lot, then consider the Bora.

When I purchased my A3-31, about 7 or so years ago, there was an option of the Tersa heads or the carbide inserts. Tersa was spoken of as the old system being replaced by the new. The carbide inserts make a lot of sense to me - I am still on the original set, and on to my third rotation. I work mainly in hardwoods. This is pretty good going, and the finish is superb. Importantly, it is very quiet - I seem to recall that the Tersa head is not quiet at all.

Are you set up for power? The A3-31 is fitted with a 15 amp plug. Power was installed by an electrician who is also a serious woodworker. He did all the checks, and startup required about 10 or 11 amps. Note that I am on 240 volts. My N4400 bandsaw works on 20 amps. The K3 slider on 15 amps.

With regard accessories, only the digital gauge is important. I have never needed the table extensions.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on joinery, hand tools, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2022, 02:35 PM »
The Hammer mobility rig is based on a very old tried and true concept that goes back at least to the 19th century.



With a little practice the object to be moved can be finely positioned.

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2022, 05:05 PM »
Thanks Derek.

Anthony, if you do not plan to move the machine, then stick with the Hammer system. It is stable, low profile, and does the job when needed. If you move a lot, then consider the Bora.

I've decided to go with the Hammer carriage. I won't be moving it very often and I think I prefer the smaller footprint. My space is small and I'd rather not be kicking levers and such that would be sticking out on the Bora base.

Quote
When I purchased my A3-31, about 7 or so years ago, there was an option of the Tersa heads or the carbide inserts. Tersa was spoken of as the old system being replaced by the new. The carbide inserts make a lot of sense to me - I am still on the original set, and on to my third rotation. I work mainly in hardwoods. This is pretty good going, and the finish is superb. Importantly, it is very quiet - I seem to recall that the Tersa head is not quiet at all.

The first sales person I heard back from also referred to the Tersa blades as a "thing of the past", though as others have mentioned, I'm sure they still have their place. Noise is important to me so I'll be going with the Silent Power cutter, which I believe is now their default cutter and included on all A3 models.

Quote
Are you set up for power? The A3-31 is fitted with a 15 amp plug. Power was installed by an electrician who is also a serious woodworker. He did all the checks, and startup required about 10 or 11 amps. Note that I am on 240 volts. My N4400 bandsaw works on 20 amps. The K3 slider on 15 amps.

Not at the moment. My house currently has a 100A main panel. I've got an appointment to have the main panel upgraded to 200A and will have a sub-panel installed in the garage.

Quote
With regard accessories, only the digital gauge is important. I have never needed the table extensions.

I've got both on the quote. I added the table extensions just in case, but am not sure if I'll need them and might take them off. Most of what I'll be milling will be less than 1200mm. I can order a set later when they're needed.

What's the longest board you are comfortable jointing without the extensions?

The Hammer mobility rig is based on a very old tried and true concept that goes back at least to the 19th century.

With a little practice the object to be moved can be finely positioned.

Great. I think it'll work out just fine for me.

Cheers guys! [cool]

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Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 618
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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2022, 09:30 PM »
Quote
What's the longest board you are comfortable jointing without the extensions?

Anthony, 95% would be under 2m (say, 6 feet). This constitutes “medium” sized pieces in my view. I am not in the habit of building large tables, and if I did, then would add the extensions.

“Medium” …



Also a kitchen. Some of the frames are 2m high ...




Regards from Perth

Derek
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 11:49 AM by derekcohen »
Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on joinery, hand tools, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 271
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2022, 07:15 AM »
There are very good machinists who having used both carbide silent power heads and Tersa say that Tersa is their preferred option. Personally I went for the silent power head as one chip on a blade is one too many for me and the long life and less noise is also a winner. The original carriage system works for me, mine came off my K3 as it never moves. The in handle height gauge is a must, if it cost twice as much I would still buy it.

Offline sawdustinmyshoes

  • Posts: 113
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2022, 09:10 AM »
You won't regret the Hammer option for the mobile base.  It is very stable.  I rarely move mine, but when I do I don't find the back and forth motion to be a big deal.  Also, the bracket mounted on the front of the cabinet has never been a hinderance, but could be easily removed (and lost if you're like me) when not in use.

Offline Aux2496

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2022, 12:43 PM »
4nthony - what dust collection system are you using or planning to use for this?

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2022, 02:46 PM »
4nthony - what dust collection system are you using or planning to use for this?

I have a 1HP Rockler 750CFM unit that I move between machines. Not ideal, but it'll have to do for now.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 02:49 PM by 4nthony »
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Anthony

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Offline sawdustinmyshoes

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2022, 10:41 AM »
4nthony - what dust collection system are you using or planning to use for this?

I have a 1HP Rockler 750CFM unit that I move between machines. Not ideal, but it'll have to do for now.

This is a current topic on the other FOG (Felder Owner's Group).

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2022, 12:41 PM »
This is a current topic on the other FOG (Felder Owner's Group).

Is this the thread you're referring to?

My little DC is on wheels so I'll be able to move it next to the A3 rather than stretching the hose across the garage. I'm anticipating the occasional clog and some escaped chips.
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Anthony

"The best way to get a correct answer on the internet is to post an obviously wrong answer and wait for someone to correct you." - Kevin Kelly

Offline sawdustinmyshoes

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2022, 03:30 PM »
This is a current topic on the other FOG (Felder Owner's Group).

Is this the thread you're referring to?

My little DC is on wheels so I'll be able to move it next to the A3 rather than stretching the hose across the garage. I'm anticipating the occasional clog and some escaped chips.

Yes it is.

Offline montyss

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2022, 06:06 PM »
For the extension table think about it on the planer that has a short bed.. I have never needed to use it when jointing yet so its stays on the planer full time.

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Offline Mini Me

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2022, 09:00 PM »
For the extension table think about it on the planer that has a short bed.. I have never needed to use it when jointing yet so its stays on the planer full time.

I agree, in fact I think the extension table on the planer is nearly a necessity.

Offline SoonerFan

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2022, 11:27 PM »
@4nthony seems like you might have shipping on the Hammer figured out.  If that is you decision, I hope it all works out for you like my purchases did for me. 

I ordered a HH Jet Jointer and a Planner (not a combo) at got both delivered at different times to the shop on our property with a lift gate.  Both times these were delivered and dropped in my shop.  I was provided time to open the crates and inspect the equipment.  Had no troubles at all.  Ordered both from Beaver Tools and it all worked great.  I also got a SawStop PCS from Beaver and it was a great delivery experience.  Each time this terrific lady did the delivery and she was fantastic.  Very professional, called in advance, was on time, etc.  I wish she would deliver everything I order…..

Offline sawdustinmyshoes

  • Posts: 113
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2022, 09:47 AM »
For the extension table think about it on the planer that has a short bed.. I have never needed to use it when jointing yet so its stays on the planer full time.

I agree, in fact I think the extension table on the planer is nearly a necessity.

I also agree.  I bought two extensions.  I used them both once on the jointer when machining long, heavy stock for my workbench top.  Since then, one has been attached to my planer outfeed and the other rests against the wall behind the machine.

Joe

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2022, 01:10 PM »
Shipping cost ended up being $646.78.

Dealing with Hammer has been interesting. The quotes I received never explicitly stated the price of the machine. It had a subtotal that included accessories so I was always subtracting the accessories total from the subtotal to get the A3 31 price. I asked my rep about it but he never acknowledged/addressed it. On all my quotes, the base price (subtotal - accessories) was $5507. On the web, base price is $5364. Not sure why this is, but if you order from Hammer, the rep's price will probably be higher than the web.

A couple months after making my deposit, the price on the website dropped about $1200. I had already made my deposit but as I hadn't taken delivery, I asked for a price adjustment. The first adjusted quote came back about $700 above the web price. I asked if that included shipping but was told the difference was for the Silent Power cutter head. All machines include the SP cutter so it felt a little sneaky that the rep was trying to pull this on me (the website explicitly says the SP cutter is included).

Long story short, the rep matched the current web price of $4442. Their website is still quoting $1250 for shipping. I basically saved about $600 in shipping by going through a rep.

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Anthony

"The best way to get a correct answer on the internet is to post an obviously wrong answer and wait for someone to correct you." - Kevin Kelly