Author Topic: Hammer A3 31 Shipping  (Read 7170 times)

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Offline 4nthony

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Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« on: June 16, 2022, 01:46 PM »
I was on the Hammer site and added an A3 31 to my cart, entered my addresses, and was kinda shocked:



$1300 for shipping?

Do these ship directly from Austria? Shipping price seems excessive, considering there's a Felder showroom 20 odd miles from my home. I made a couple calls to Felder but have been getting disconnected after listening to a few minutes of their hold music.

For those of you who have ordered from Hammer, were your shipping charges similarly priced?
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Online rvieceli

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2022, 02:41 PM »
I think that Felder's main US presence is in Delaware. Basically across the whole country for you. Shipping rates have gone up significantly lately.

There is a used A3-31 listed up in Monterey if you don't mid a road trip. It's been listed for a month, so they might be willing to negotiate a bit.

https://monterey.craigslist.org/tls/d/seaside-hammer-12-jointer-planera3-31/7486675640.html



Ron

Offline 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2022, 04:26 PM »
Thanks for that link! I'll have to strongly consider it and figure out what it would take to get it down here.

As for shipping prices, I'm used to the prices I usually see on Grizzly.com and was expecting something in the vicinity. For a 1700lb 16" jointer their freight charge is only $425. Maybe Grizzly just does a lot more volume and can negotiate better pricing from their shippers?

*EDIT: Hammer is no longer available.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 04:42 PM by 4nthony »
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Anthony

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Online rvieceli

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2022, 05:50 PM »
Bummer on the used one. Grizzly has two distribution centers. One in Bellingham Washington and the other in Springfield Missouri. Closer

Ron

Offline wopchop

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2022, 07:45 PM »
Shipping prices are certainly insane right now, but it sounds like an error.

I just estimated the cost to ship an A3-31 from Felder Canada in Winnipeg Manitoba (or Nanaimo, BC maybe?) to Toronto, and it was $359 CAD.

Offline 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2022, 09:50 PM »
Shipping prices are certainly insane right now, but it sounds like an error.

I just estimated the cost to ship an A3-31 from Felder Canada in Winnipeg Manitoba (or Nanaimo, BC maybe?) to Toronto, and it was $359 CAD.

Interesting. I wasn't able to get through on the phone today. I'll try again tomorrow see if it's a real price or simply an error.

I'm also researching other combo units and I noticed CWI ships their Scorpion 12" and 16" jointer-planers for $150.
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Anthony

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Offline Peter Kelly

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2022, 11:37 PM »
For less, you could fly to Italy and import something yourself: https://www.makxilia.biz/prodotto/legno/combinata-filo-spessore/combinata-filo-spessore-scm-group-minimax-fs30-g/

Insane what Felder charges.

Offline Alanbach

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2022, 01:28 AM »
The salespeople in the office that covers your area probably put together container loads of equipment for presale. When they do that they offer reduced freight and sometimes reduced prices on the equipment. I say this based on emails I have received from my salesperson in Texas. Call the area office and find a salesperson to deal with. See what they can do for you. In my experience you don’t want to just buy from them online if you want the best deal.

Offline Mini Me

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2022, 07:50 AM »
For less, you could fly to Italy and import something yourself: https://www.makxilia.biz/prodotto/legno/combinata-filo-spessore/combinata-filo-spessore-scm-group-minimax-fs30-g/

Insane what Felder charges.

At a guess that would be 415V 3 phase. Someone on the Festool forum calling out Felder for high prices seems a bit odd.

Offline JimH2

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2022, 07:57 AM »
For less, you could fly to Italy and import something yourself: https://www.makxilia.biz/prodotto/legno/combinata-filo-spessore/combinata-filo-spessore-scm-group-minimax-fs30-g/

Insane what Felder charges.

At a guess that would be 415V 3 phase. Someone on the Festool forum calling out Felder for high prices seems a bit odd.

A cheapest SawStop ICS configuration with the large slider just over $7K.

Offline 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2022, 11:07 AM »
Someone on the Festool forum calling out Felder for high prices seems a bit odd.

Just to clarify, the topic of the thread is about shipping prices, not tool prices.

A cheapest SawStop ICS configuration with the large slider just over $7K.

Shipping for an ICS is around $650.



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Anthony

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Offline Peter Kelly

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2022, 01:12 PM »
I wonder if it'd be simpler to stop by their showroom to speak to someone in person for a quote. I've been to their US HQ in Delaware, they had a fair number of machines on display, certainly helped in my decision process to see everything lined up side by side.

FYI - pre-covid, the lead times for buying anything other than parts from Felder was anywhere from 3-4 months. I don't think they stock too many machines in the US.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2022, 01:16 PM by Peter Kelly »

Offline gruz

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2022, 06:57 AM »
I would definitely speak with a rep.  I purchased one in January (I think it was tail end of a holiday sale?) and paid $5,240 with Xylent cutterhead, outfeed extension, and digital / numerical height gauge shipped with lift gate service. I’m in the Northeast and was told all the machines come in to the US through Atlanta. Should be arriving any day now… scheduling trucking for them has been challenging, but only a month later than their original timing estimate.

Offline macanter

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2022, 08:04 AM »
The shipping fees the OP mentioned are consistent with what I have seen recently for comparably machines.  BUT, for anyone thinking of having a large, heavy, expensive machine shipped by lift gate residential service, think twice.  I recently had an SCM Minimax SC3 Classic saw seriously trashed by Fedex Freight lift gate service.  It was refused and sent back to SCM, and the revised delivery for the "repaired" unit was done to my local SCM dealer.  I rented a drop deck trailer and picked it up without incident.

Residential lift gate is fine for 4' x 4' pallets, not so good for things bigger than that.  You also save the residential lift gate fees, and that more than pays for the rental of the drop deck trailer.  You can make arrangements to do the same at the local terminal of whatever freight company your shipper chooses to use.

Offline Aux2496

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2022, 12:04 PM »
The Felder-Group website uses standard e-commerce type shipping quotes (i.e. UPS Freight) and is good for small items under 100 lbs but obviously estimates extremely high for heavy machines.  I spoke with a Felder rep about this.  If Felder website shows shipping at $1,300, he could probably get a common carrier cost of about $600.  If you are close to a local Felder office (like 1-2 hours), then shipping could be around $300-350.  It's best if you work out a "customer pickup" at a Felder location.  There is no cost for shipping at that point.

Offline 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2022, 01:29 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback!  [cool]

The Felder-Group website uses standard e-commerce type shipping quotes (i.e. UPS Freight) and is good for small items under 100 lbs but obviously estimates extremely high for heavy machines.  I spoke with a Felder rep about this.  If Felder website shows shipping at $1,300, he could probably get a common carrier cost of about $600.  If you are close to a local Felder office (like 1-2 hours), then shipping could be around $300-350.  It's best if you work out a "customer pickup" at a Felder location.  There is no cost for shipping at that point.

Great info. Local freight would be ideal as there's a showroom nearby and I don't think I could manage a local pickup by myself.

I was researching other combo units over the weekend and came across the Jet JJP-12HH, which is more expensive than the Hammer but can be purchased on Amazon with free Prime shipping. It has some good reviews but one of the main complaints is it's difficult to align the tables. Many people also say the fit and finish on the Hammer is much nicer.

I've sent an email and left a voicemail with Hammer so hopefully will hear back from them today or tomorrow.

Also, I know helical heads are much quieter than straight blades. Is Hammer's "Silent Power" cutter head just marketing or has it actually been engineered to be quieter than other helical heads?
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Anthony

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Online rvieceli

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2022, 02:05 PM »
@4nthony if you go the delivery route rather than pick up, make sure they fully explain what the scope of delivery is. Have heard some instances where the delivery folks will stick it in you shop, maybe drop it just outside your shop or drop it in the street at the end of your drive way. Big difference in hassle for you depending on the circumstance.

Ron

Offline MikeGE

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2022, 02:27 PM »
@4nthony if you go the delivery route rather than pick up, make sure they fully explain what the scope of delivery is. Have heard some instances where the delivery folks will stick it in you shop, maybe drop it just outside your shop or drop it in the street at the end of your drive way. Big difference in hassle for you depending on the circumstance.

Ron

Here's an example of how not to drop off a machine in the street.  This is a SCM FS 30S (not mine).





Online rvieceli

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2022, 02:34 PM »
Shame, fairly obvious that the pallet was broken somewhere along its travels. Needs another bottom piece on the side facing out. If they would cared. they could have spun it 180 when they put it on the lift and that never would have happened.

Ron

Offline JimH2

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2022, 02:37 PM »
@4nthony if you go the delivery route rather than pick up, make sure they fully explain what the scope of delivery is. Have heard some instances where the delivery folks will stick it in you shop, maybe drop it just outside your shop or drop it in the street at the end of your drive way. Big difference in hassle for you depending on the circumstance.

Ron

There are huge variations on this and sometimes you can request more than the basic delivery. Depending on the weight and what the delivery people have a $50 can go a long way. Too heavy and they probably would not attempt because they probably are forbidden from doing so and the Workmans comp might be a issue if they are doing more than they are supposed to.

Offline rmhinden

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2022, 02:43 PM »
For those of you who have ordered from Hammer, were your shipping charges similarly priced?

I purchased an A3-41 and it was delivered in August 2019.    The shipping cost was from their Sacramento CA warehouse was about $500.

The delivery went smoothy, the truck backed up into my driveway, off loaded it via truck lift gate, and use a pallet jack to move it into my garage.

I suggest you call your local Hammer/Felder rep and talk to him/her.    My experience was, of course, pre-pandemic.

PM me if you want the name of the person I worked with.

Bob



Online Joelm

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2022, 04:18 PM »
Not an A3 31 but I did get a Felder FB 510 delivered last November for $525. I did not go through their website but directly from my local dealer. It was a very positive experience all around.

Offline festal

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2022, 04:36 PM »
You have to be careful with freight delivery companies. If anything looks off refuse it. Once you accept it, it’s hard to get any damage money from them. There are tilt indicators on crates which indicate if crate was tilted during travel. Some freight companies can replace them if they get tripped if they can see them. My tormach mill got damaged and because I didn’t know about these issues I didn’t get any money out of freight company


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Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2022, 08:53 AM »
For what it's worth, it looks like I paid ~$550 in shipping for my A3-41, delivered April 2020, to Minneapolis MN.

As Festal points out, Felder makes a point of insisting that you do not sign for a delivery if anything looks amiss. It's much easier to sort out damage if you refuse delivery. If you sign for delivery, it releases the shipping company from any liability, and leaves you holding the proverbial bag.

The Silent Power cutter head on the Hammer machines is nice, my understanding is that the same head goes into the Felder machines as well. Chips are nice and small, cutter noise is minimal, no louder than running my saw. That being said, I'd like to eventually bump up to the AD941, in which case there's a TERSA cutter head available which I'm seriously considering. Within the realm of sub-$10k machines, I don't think you could hope for much better than the Felder spiral cutter head.

Something you get with the Hammer (and Felder/Profil) machines that may be lacking in some of the other combo machines is support. While YMMV, I've experienced great support from the Felder technical service people, and there's an active Felder/Hammer/Profil forum with a wealth of knowledge about dialing-in the machines.

Something the Hammer machines offer that I do not think is an option on the Jet or Grizly machines is a mechanical DRO on the hand wheel. I have mine set up for MM, and I can get repeatability to within 0.1mm.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 09:04 AM by Tom Gensmer »
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Offline 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2022, 03:00 PM »
For what it's worth, it looks like I paid ~$550 in shipping for my A3-41, delivered April 2020, to Minneapolis MN.

As Festal points out, Felder makes a point of insisting that you do not sign for a delivery if anything looks amiss. It's much easier to sort out damage if you refuse delivery. If you sign for delivery, it releases the shipping company from any liability, and leaves you holding the proverbial bag.


What typically happens if you don't sign for delivery? Do they return it back to Felder or leave it for you to work out the damage replacement with Felder? I've never not signed for a delivery. When my saw was delivered, the pallet was somewhat beat up but everything was so well wrapped that it would've been impossible to determine any damage without unwrapping everything.


The Silent Power cutter head on the Hammer machines is nice, my understanding is that the same head goes into the Felder machines as well. Chips are nice and small, cutter noise is minimal, no louder than running my saw. That being said, I'd like to eventually bump up to the AD941, in which case there's a TERSA cutter head available which I'm seriously considering. Within the realm of sub-$10k machines, I don't think you could hope for much better than the Felder spiral cutter head.


It's the reduction in noise that I'm primarily after and if it's in the range of what my saw produces, that would be great. I'm just learning about the Tersa cutters. Their site mentions them as being noise-reducing, which I thought was interesting, as they look like very similar to standard straight knives which I thought were the noisiest.
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Offline MikeGE

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2022, 03:42 PM »
It's the reduction in noise that I'm primarily after and if it's in the range of what my saw produces, that would be great. I'm just learning about the Tersa cutters. Their site mentions them as being noise-reducing, which I thought was interesting, as they look like very similar to standard straight knives which I thought were the noisiest.

My entry level Minimax FS 30G has the three-knife Tersa cutter block.  When I bought the FS 30G, I was considering the SCM Xylent cutter block, but my distributor recommended the Tersa option.  I found out later that they sold only one machine with the Xylent cutter block.  The customer was also a hobbyist and he later traded up for a larger machine with the Tersa cutter block.

All of the professional shops in my area use the Tersa cutter blocks, especially when time is money.  Paying an apprentice or junior employee to rotate and torque 40+ carbide cutters is not cost efficient when it takes the machine out of service.  I can change the three knives in my FS 30G in about one minute.

Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2022, 04:08 PM »
4nthony,

Unwrapping the machine prior to signing is precisely what Felder recommends. When the machinery leaves Felder it essentially becomes the property and responsibility of the freight company. When you sign for delivery, you are releasing all of the previous parties from responsibility for the condition of the machine, particularly any shipping damage. Every situation will be a little different, but refusing to sign should send the machine back to the shipping depot, where it will stay while the machinery company and the shipping company will work through their insurance carriers to assign responsibility and render a decision about recourse.

On my last Felder delivery, they insisted that if I saw even a slight ding on the pallet that I call their logistics line to discuss whether the machine may or may not be damaged. They also insisted that even if everything looked "good", that I take the time to cut away all of the plastic and/or remove the protective crating around the machines to confirm that they were indeed undamaged. The freight company should allow you to take the time to properly inspect the machine prior to signing.

I know that with the long lead times it can be tempting to just sign for the machine and deal with it later, but signing might mean months of delay on getting parts or service, whereas not signing can fast-track the process.

Finally, not all machinery can be delivered via lift gate service. I've received at least one machine that was too big/heavy for lift gate, and wouldn't fit on a drop deck trailer. We ultimately decided to go with a flatbed semi tractor rig with a piggyback forklift, which worked perfectly. Also remember that most freight companies are only obligated to get the machine off the gate, anything more than that is at the discretion of the driver. Having your own pallet jack ready can save you from having a machine left in the street.....
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 06:54 PM by Tom Gensmer »
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Offline StanB

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2022, 12:44 PM »
when i purchased an a331 and HS950 shipping was $500 to cinicinnati oh from delaware. 2019 and 2021, respectively.
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Offline 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2022, 01:52 PM »
I really appreciate all the replies with advice about shipping and inspection.

I heard back from Hammer and the quoted shipping price on their site is way off. I was told it's usually around $500 which is on part with what has been suggested by you guys. I also asked about TERSA cutters vs the Silent Power and was told:

Quote
The Silent power cutter head is revolutionary. It is the quietest, give the best cut and uses 30% less horse power, The design was taken from carbide inset rebate shaper cutter. Tersa is getting to be a thing of the past. , No comparison

I'll still research this a bit more but the SP cutter will probably be OK for me. I've read about people going a year or two before rotating the cutters so I'm not worried about the extra time it'll take to do the rotation.
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Online sawdustinmyshoes

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2022, 02:33 PM »
I love the silent power cutter . . . extremely quiet, small chips (less emptying the dust collection bin, but heavier).  But most of all, I appreciate the finish and longevity.  The spriral configuration combined with the small cuts results in an exceptionally smooth fiinish even in highly figured woods.  Also, I haven't rotated the inserts since I got the unit (7 or 8 years ago).  Granted I'm a hobbyest, but they've seen a fair bit of use and I work mostly in hardwoods (maple, cherry, oak, ash).  I estimate I would have swapped jointer and planer knives on my Grizzly jointer and Makita portable planer at least three to four times by now. 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 02:36 PM by sawdustinmyshoes »