Author Topic: Hammer A3 31 Shipping  (Read 7171 times)

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Offline Tom Gensmer

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  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2022, 03:00 PM »
I really appreciate all the replies with advice about shipping and inspection.

I heard back from Hammer and the quoted shipping price on their site is way off. I was told it's usually around $500 which is on part with what has been suggested by you guys. I also asked about TERSA cutters vs the Silent Power and was told:

Quote
The Silent power cutter head is revolutionary. It is the quietest, give the best cut and uses 30% less horse power, The design was taken from carbide inset rebate shaper cutter. Tersa is getting to be a thing of the past. , No comparison

I'll still research this a bit more but the SP cutter will probably be OK for me. I've read about people going a year or two before rotating the cutters so I'm not worried about the extra time it'll take to do the rotation.

4nthony,

The TERSA cutter heads are only available on the AD741 and higher machines, on the Hammer machines you're choosing between the standard Felder straight knife heads ("traditional" or self-setting), or the Silent Power spiral. In that realm, I'd absolutely choose the Silent Power. If you were stepping up to a 741 or 941, then the TERSA option opens up.....
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Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2022, 09:36 PM »
What is the advantage of TERSA? It just looks like 3 straight knives. They self register in the head?

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 343
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2022, 05:35 AM »
What is the advantage of TERSA? It just looks like 3 straight knives. They self register in the head?

The number of knives in the cutter block depends on the size of the machine. Most have three knives, but some have four.

The disposable Tersa knives are double-sided, so when one edge is damaged or dull, it can be changed to the other cutting edge.  The knives lock into position as soon as the machine is started. 


To change a knife, I push it down with a small block of wood, or the SCM plastic tool.  The knife then slides out of the cutter block through an access hole in the side of the machine.  When installing a knife, it will go into the cutter block only one way.  The knife is slid into the cutter block until it is approximately centered in the slot. 

When all knives are in place, turn on the machine to set them.  They will not fly out and will be locked into place.  I can change the three knives in my FS 30G in about a minute.  SCM recommends running a short piece of wood through the machine to ensure the knives are set.

I have no idea how long the knives last because the machine is new to me.  A set of three replacement standard knives for my machine is about €30 and a set of three M42 HSS knives is about €47.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 800
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2022, 09:14 AM »
One of the other benefits of the TERSA cutter system is that there's a variety of blade alloys available, so you can match your blade composition to the wood/product you are processing. Off the top of my head, my memory is that the TERSA blades are available in HSS, M2, Chrome Steel, Carbide, and NaDia diamond coating, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Some blades are better suited for hardwoods, others for softwoods, others are well suited to processing dirty/gritty lumber which might damage/knick the knives.

As MikeGE points out, blade change takes about a minute or so.

I've also heard of users getting rather creative with their blade selection, using two or three blade styles on the same head to get the best qualities of different blade alloys.

I've also heard of users using shorter sections of TERSA blades and setting up their cutter block in sections, for instance the far side of the cutter block is set up with blades better suited for softwoods or dirty/rough lumber, while the near side of the head is loaded with blades better suited for long runs of hardwood.

Again, I'm currently enjoying my Felder Silent Power cutter block in my Hammer A3-41, it's a great cutter, but for more commercial/industrial applications the TERSA systems seems to have some advantages.

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Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 343
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2022, 09:53 AM »
The TERSA cutter heads are only available on the AD741 and higher machines, on the Hammer machines you're choosing between the standard Felder straight knife heads ("traditional" or self-setting), or the Silent Power spiral. In that realm, I'd absolutely choose the Silent Power. If you were stepping up to a 741 or 941, then the TERSA option opens up.....

This explains what I observed and confirms what my distributor told me.  I visited two commercial shops earlier this year, and each had the larger Felder machines.  One had two AD941s and the other had one AD941.  All of the machines had Tersa cutter blocks.

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 512
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2022, 11:22 AM »
Again, I'm currently enjoying my Felder Silent Power cutter block in my Hammer A3-41, it's a great cutter, but for more commercial/industrial applications the TERSA systems seems to have some advantages.

Same for me, I have the Silent Power cutters on my Hammer A3-41.   I am very pleased with it.

Bob

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2022, 12:06 PM »
Things are moving forward. I'm in touch with a Hammer rep, getting my questions answered, and working on a quote.

For those of you with a Hammer A3, do you have any thoughts on their Rolling Carriage/Lifting Bar vs something like the Bora PM-3550? I added the Rolling Carriage to my quote but now I'm reconsidering and leaning towards the Bora as it seems to be more maneuverable though it has a slightly larger footprint.
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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 800
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2022, 02:27 PM »
Things are moving forward. I'm in touch with a Hammer rep, getting my questions answered, and working on a quote.

For those of you with a Hammer A3, do you have any thoughts on their Rolling Carriage/Lifting Bar vs something like the Bora PM-3550? I added the Rolling Carriage to my quote but now I'm reconsidering and leaning towards the Bora as it seems to be more maneuverable though it has a slightly larger footprint.

I have the Hammer rolling carriage on my A3-41 and it's fine, easy to install and effective for moving the machine around.

Another option you didn't mention is a pallet truck. I have a 21" x 48" pallet truck and have found it to be the most effective, safe method for moving machinery around the shop. If you're looking at acquiring other, larger machinery it may be a worthwhile acquisition. Just a thought....
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Offline montyss

  • Posts: 48
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2022, 08:51 PM »
I opted for the Hammer rolling carriage on my A3-31. For the other brand wheel kits they seemed to stick out to far on the front of the machine and maybe get in the way I had thought ( personal preference)  The other things you should add to the quote is the short 400 mm accessory table (part # 500-101) with the coupling bar (part # 500-102) and the  Height gauge Digital readout ( part # 01.1.202 ) also required for the Digital Height gauge is an Aluminum handwheel (part # 12.1.311) The Height gauge is a must have after using it once you will be hooked on ... its super accurate to return to a previous thickness setting. The Felder number above is for the Metric version, there is another one that is in inches   

Offline sawdustinmyshoes

  • Posts: 110
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2022, 01:23 PM »
I opted for the Hammer rolling carriage on my A3-31. For the other brand wheel kits they seemed to stick out to far on the front of the machine and maybe get in the way I had thought ( personal preference)  The other things you should add to the quote is the short 400 mm accessory table (part # 500-101) with the coupling bar (part # 500-102) and the  Height gauge Digital readout ( part # 01.1.202 ) also required for the Digital Height gauge is an Aluminum handwheel (part # 12.1.311) The Height gauge is a must have after using it once you will be hooked on ... its super accurate to return to a previous thickness setting. The Felder number above is for the Metric version, there is another one that is in inches

I agree with all of these points/accessories and purchased the same with my machine.

Joe

Offline Aux2496

  • Posts: 10
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2022, 03:08 PM »
I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:

Tersa vs Silent Power helical - if you choose Tersa straight blades, you better have one heck of a dust collection system (think 3+ HP Oneida or Clearvue).  The straight blades will create long shavings.  If you are jointing/planing a 13" wide board, the shavings will be as long as 13".  If you are doing a deep cut (i.e. 2-4 mm), then it will be worse.  The long shavings are actually heavy and a low power dust collector will not be able to pull them into the hose.  A 1100/1200 size basic dust collector is not going to be enough.  The shavings will stack up and end up clogging the hood outlet at some point.  If you get the Silent Power helical, this will not be as much of a problem because the shavings will only be about 1/2" in length and these are easier to pull into the dust collection hose.

Mobile base - I have read some people having problems with mobile base because the machine was generating vibrations and not being as stable.  Those seem to have better results with the Hammer rolling carriage which allows the machine to be set down completely on the floor.  The downside is maneuverability since you can only move the machine forward and backward.  Movement becomes awkward if you have to rotate and position the machine in small areas.  I'm sure the vibration issue doesn't affect everyone.

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 343
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2022, 03:39 PM »
I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:

Tersa vs Silent Power helical - if you choose Tersa straight blades, you better have one heck of a dust collection system (think 3+ HP Oneida or Clearvue).  The straight blades will create long shavings.  If you are jointing/planing a 13" wide board, the shavings will be as long as 13".  If you are doing a deep cut (i.e. 2-4 mm), then it will be worse.  The long shavings are actually heavy and a low power dust collector will not be able to pull them into the hose.  A 1100/1200 size basic dust collector is not going to be enough.  The shavings will stack up and end up clogging the hood outlet at some point.  If you get the Silent Power helical, this will not be as much of a problem because the shavings will only be about 1/2" in length and these are easier to pull into the dust collection hose.

Mobile base - I have read some people having problems with mobile base because the machine was generating vibrations and not being as stable.  Those seem to have better results with the Hammer rolling carriage which allows the machine to be set down completely on the floor.  The downside is maneuverability since you can only move the machine forward and backward.  Movement becomes awkward if you have to rotate and position the machine in small areas.  I'm sure the vibration issue doesn't affect everyone.

I don't know where you are getting your information, but this has not been my experience.  I have never seen a long shaving from either of my jointer/planers.  I had a Holzmann with 260mm standard knives and now have the SCM FS 30G with 300mm Tersa knives.  The longest shaving I have seen in my dust bin was about 5mm, but most are much smaller.  If I disconnect the dust collection hose from my J/P, as has happened accidentally before, my floor is filled with small chips, not long strands of peeled wood.


Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 216
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2022, 04:48 PM »
DITTO on the silent power cutter head.ABSOLUTELY the quietest planer I have ever been around. You can still hold normal conversations next to the working machine.

It's definitely NOT just hype or marketing. There are huge gullets in front of the knives that whisk away the shavings - which keeps them from being pounded into the wood. Not just quiet, but smoother too.

Best part is that each knife has 4 carbide faces. If you hit a nail just use remove the screw, turn the knife 90 degrees and tighten the screw - ZERO knife setup necessary.

Check out the felder/hammer youtube videos - they are TRUE.

Had my A3-31 about 10 years and still LOVE it.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline Aux2496

  • Posts: 10
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2022, 09:44 PM »
I don't know where you are getting your information, but this has not been my experience.  I have never seen a long shaving from either of my jointer/planers.  I had a Holzmann with 260mm standard knives and now have the SCM FS 30G with 300mm Tersa knives.  The longest shaving I have seen in my dust bin was about 5mm, but most are much smaller.  If I disconnect the dust collection hose from my J/P, as has happened accidentally before, my floor is filled with small chips, not long strands of peeled wood.

I have had personal experience with 15" planers using straight knives doing exactly that.  Putting out long 12" shavings into the 4" dust hood outlet and clogging it up.  In any event, a smallish 1100/1200 dust collector is not going to be effective with this 16" jointer/planer.  It will pull some chips/sawdust, but it will leave a lot behind.

Offline Peter Kelly

  • Posts: 125
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2022, 10:08 PM »
I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:

Tersa vs Silent Power helical - if you choose Tersa straight blades, you better have one heck of a dust collection system (think 3+ HP Oneida or Clearvue).  The straight blades will create long shavings.  If you are jointing/planing a 13" wide board, the shavings will be as long as 13".  If you are doing a deep cut (i.e. 2-4 mm), then it will be worse.  The long shavings are actually heavy and a low power dust collector will not be able to pull them into the hose.  A 1100/1200 size basic dust collector is not going to be enough.  The shavings will stack up and end up clogging the hood outlet at some point.  If you get the Silent Power helical, this will not be as much of a problem because the shavings will only be about 1/2" in length and these are easier to pull into the dust collection hose.
I've machines with a 16" and 12" 3-knife Tersa cutter head, neither require that level of dust collection power even planing a full 16". One setup is connected to a lowly modified HF blower, miles of wood planed and no issues for the last 4 years.

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 358
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2022, 10:42 PM »
I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:

Tersa vs Silent Power helical - if you choose Tersa straight blades, you better have one heck of a dust collection system (think 3+ HP Oneida or Clearvue).  The straight blades will create long shavings.  If you are jointing/planing a 13" wide board, the shavings will be as long as 13".  If you are doing a deep cut (i.e. 2-4 mm), then it will be worse.  The long shavings are actually heavy and a low power dust collector will not be able to pull them into the hose.  A 1100/1200 size basic dust collector is not going to be enough.  The shavings will stack up and end up clogging the hood outlet at some point.  If you get the Silent Power helical, this will not be as much of a problem because the shavings will only be about 1/2" in length and these are easier to pull into the dust collection hose.
I've machines with a 16" and 12" 3-knife Tersa cutter head, neither require that level of dust collection power even planing a full 16". One setup is connected to a lowly modified HF blower, miles of wood planed and no issues for the last 4 years.
I have a 16" FS41e, and my 1 1/2 hp Delta double bag unit could not handle it even with a trash can separator.  I did get very long shavings that would clog it quickly.  I upgraded to a 3hp Oneida V-3000 and have had no problems since then.  It wasn't just the dust collector itself I changed though, I also changed from 4" flex duct from a 120mm step down fitting, to a 120mm to 6" fitting to a 6" flex duct and then hard piped 6" to the collector (about 20').

Offline Aux2496

  • Posts: 10
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2022, 02:51 AM »
I also changed from 4" flex duct from a 120mm step down fitting, to a 120mm to 6" fitting to a 6" flex duct and then hard piped 6" to the collector (about 20').

Can you point me to that 120mm to 6" fitting?

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 358
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2022, 07:43 AM »
I bought it from Oneida as part of the duct work system.  Part is DRH120060, "Heavy reducer 120mmID -6" crimp" it is on page 110 of their catalog: https://www.oneida-air.com/media/flippingbook/2101051417/109/

Charles

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2022, 11:59 AM »
Thanks again for all the feedback. Immensely helpful as always.  [cool]

I have been researching the heck out this machine lately as well.  I have some comments:
...
Mobile base - I have read some people having problems with mobile base because the machine was generating vibrations and not being as stable.  Those seem to have better results with the Hammer rolling carriage which allows the machine to be set down completely on the floor.  The downside is maneuverability since you can only move the machine forward and backward.  Movement becomes awkward if you have to rotate and position the machine in small areas.  I'm sure the vibration issue doesn't affect everyone.

I received some feedback from a Woodworker on YouTube who uses a Bora 3500 mobile base and he commented that the machine was stable when in operation but would slide in the base when moving it around. To eliminate the sliding, he added a few shims to fill the gaps around the base.

The floor in my garage is pretty uneven. I've got two layers of 3/4" OSB sitting on top of what is basically a brick patio. 1940s bricks set in the ground. I watched a video about the Rolling Carriage and it looks like they supply two leveling feet for the front of the unit which I'll definitely need. Once I've put the machine in place, I probably won't be moving it around very often. I guess I just need to decide if the forward-back motion of the carriage is OK (probably) or if I really need the added mobility of the Bora (doubtful).

Thanks all!


« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 04:34 PM by 4nthony »
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Anthony

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Offline derekcohen

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2022, 01:31 PM »
Anthony, if you do not plan to move the machine, then stick with the Hammer system. It is stable, low profile, and does the job when needed. If you move a lot, then consider the Bora.

When I purchased my A3-31, about 7 or so years ago, there was an option of the Tersa heads or the carbide inserts. Tersa was spoken of as the old system being replaced by the new. The carbide inserts make a lot of sense to me - I am still on the original set, and on to my third rotation. I work mainly in hardwoods. This is pretty good going, and the finish is superb. Importantly, it is very quiet - I seem to recall that the Tersa head is not quiet at all.

Are you set up for power? The A3-31 is fitted with a 15 amp plug. Power was installed by an electrician who is also a serious woodworker. He did all the checks, and startup required about 10 or 11 amps. Note that I am on 240 volts. My N4400 bandsaw works on 20 amps. The K3 slider on 15 amps.

With regard accessories, only the digital gauge is important. I have never needed the table extensions.

Regards from Perth

Derek
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5515
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2022, 02:35 PM »
The Hammer mobility rig is based on a very old tried and true concept that goes back at least to the 19th century.



With a little practice the object to be moved can be finely positioned.

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2022, 05:05 PM »
Thanks Derek.

Anthony, if you do not plan to move the machine, then stick with the Hammer system. It is stable, low profile, and does the job when needed. If you move a lot, then consider the Bora.

I've decided to go with the Hammer carriage. I won't be moving it very often and I think I prefer the smaller footprint. My space is small and I'd rather not be kicking levers and such that would be sticking out on the Bora base.

Quote
When I purchased my A3-31, about 7 or so years ago, there was an option of the Tersa heads or the carbide inserts. Tersa was spoken of as the old system being replaced by the new. The carbide inserts make a lot of sense to me - I am still on the original set, and on to my third rotation. I work mainly in hardwoods. This is pretty good going, and the finish is superb. Importantly, it is very quiet - I seem to recall that the Tersa head is not quiet at all.

The first sales person I heard back from also referred to the Tersa blades as a "thing of the past", though as others have mentioned, I'm sure they still have their place. Noise is important to me so I'll be going with the Silent Power cutter, which I believe is now their default cutter and included on all A3 models.

Quote
Are you set up for power? The A3-31 is fitted with a 15 amp plug. Power was installed by an electrician who is also a serious woodworker. He did all the checks, and startup required about 10 or 11 amps. Note that I am on 240 volts. My N4400 bandsaw works on 20 amps. The K3 slider on 15 amps.

Not at the moment. My house currently has a 100A main panel. I've got an appointment to have the main panel upgraded to 200A and will have a sub-panel installed in the garage.

Quote
With regard accessories, only the digital gauge is important. I have never needed the table extensions.

I've got both on the quote. I added the table extensions just in case, but am not sure if I'll need them and might take them off. Most of what I'll be milling will be less than 1200mm. I can order a set later when they're needed.

What's the longest board you are comfortable jointing without the extensions?

The Hammer mobility rig is based on a very old tried and true concept that goes back at least to the 19th century.

With a little practice the object to be moved can be finely positioned.

Great. I think it'll work out just fine for me.

Cheers guys! [cool]

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Offline derekcohen

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2022, 09:30 PM »
Quote
What's the longest board you are comfortable jointing without the extensions?

Anthony, 95% would be under 2m (say, 6 feet). This constitutes “medium” sized pieces in my view. I am not in the habit of building large tables, and if I did, then would add the extensions.

“Medium” …



Also a kitchen. Some of the frames are 2m high ...




Regards from Perth

Derek
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 11:49 AM by derekcohen »
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Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 229
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2022, 07:15 AM »
There are very good machinists who having used both carbide silent power heads and Tersa say that Tersa is their preferred option. Personally I went for the silent power head as one chip on a blade is one too many for me and the long life and less noise is also a winner. The original carriage system works for me, mine came off my K3 as it never moves. The in handle height gauge is a must, if it cost twice as much I would still buy it.

Offline sawdustinmyshoes

  • Posts: 110
Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2022, 09:10 AM »
You won't regret the Hammer option for the mobile base.  It is very stable.  I rarely move mine, but when I do I don't find the back and forth motion to be a big deal.  Also, the bracket mounted on the front of the cabinet has never been a hinderance, but could be easily removed (and lost if you're like me) when not in use.

Offline Aux2496

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2022, 12:43 PM »
4nthony - what dust collection system are you using or planning to use for this?

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2022, 02:46 PM »
4nthony - what dust collection system are you using or planning to use for this?

I have a 1HP Rockler 750CFM unit that I move between machines. Not ideal, but it'll have to do for now.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 02:49 PM by 4nthony »
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Anthony

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Offline sawdustinmyshoes

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2022, 10:41 AM »
4nthony - what dust collection system are you using or planning to use for this?

I have a 1HP Rockler 750CFM unit that I move between machines. Not ideal, but it'll have to do for now.

This is a current topic on the other FOG (Felder Owner's Group).

Online 4nthony

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2022, 12:41 PM »
This is a current topic on the other FOG (Felder Owner's Group).

Is this the thread you're referring to?

My little DC is on wheels so I'll be able to move it next to the A3 rather than stretching the hose across the garage. I'm anticipating the occasional clog and some escaped chips.
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Anthony

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Offline sawdustinmyshoes

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Re: Hammer A3 31 Shipping
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2022, 03:30 PM »
This is a current topic on the other FOG (Felder Owner's Group).

Is this the thread you're referring to?

My little DC is on wheels so I'll be able to move it next to the A3 rather than stretching the hose across the garage. I'm anticipating the occasional clog and some escaped chips.

Yes it is.