Author Topic: FrankenPress Idea (Read 8158 times)

Mike Goetzke · « **on:** February 23, 2022, 08:26 PM »

I have an old belt drive floor standing drill press that I’ve been wanting to replace with one of the Nova electronic speed control DP’s. I found a Viking head unit without the post/base.

Yeah, was wondering if I could mount the Viking head on my floor standing DP post? The Nova has a post diameter of 3.07” and my current DP is 2.87”.

Thanks
Mike

(Edited: More I think about it this is probably a bad idea - probably need a tight fit between the head/post and shimming would probably not work.)

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2022, 05:41 AM »

Two tenths is probably enough to have a one tenth bushing machined, similar to a router collet bushing. I'm not sure how easy/effective it would be to simply wrap shim material around the post at that thickness.

Probably comes down to how cheap the head unit is relative to the complete machine, and whether there are any compelling reasons to use the old table.

RMW

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2022, 09:59 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on February 24, 2022, 05:41 AM

Two tenths is probably enough to have a one tenth bushing machined, similar to a router collet bushing. I'm not sure how easy/effective it would be to simply wrap shim material around the post at that thickness.

Probably comes down to how cheap the head unit is relative to the complete machine, and whether there are any compelling reasons to use the old table.

RMW

Yeah - getting the DP head quote today and if it's not a killer deal I'll pass.

I too originally though maybe wrap with shim stock but don't know how effective it would be. I've also thought of getting a piece of tubing at 3" for the head and welding it to the old column but again a lot of "if(s)" involved.

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2022, 08:10 AM »

Well was surprised the Viking DP head will be $500 to my door. Makes it very tempting to do.

I did find a steel tub 2.87ID and 3.00OD (my need is 2.87"ID and 3.07" OD). Think 0.070" diametral clearance is too much?

Also found a tube 3-1/8" OD with correct ID but would need to find a place to machine it to 3.07".

Bob D. · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2022, 09:12 AM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on February 25, 2022, 08:10 AM

Well was surprised the Viking DP head will be $500 to my door. Makes it very tempting to do.

I did find a steel tub 2.87ID and 3.00OD (my need is 2.87"ID and 3.07" OD). Think 0.070" diametral clearance is too much?

Also found a tube 3-1/8" OD with correct ID but would need to find a place to machine it to 3.07".

Is your plan to add that on the end(top) of your old DP column or slip it over as a bushing?

How does the Viking head attach to their column. It just slips over the column and is secured with 2 grub screws from what I see in the manual.

You might want to know what the ID of the column opening is in the DP head before you buy your tubing. You may find you have that extra 0.055" that you need already.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2022, 10:30 AM »

Being a hacker myself I'd be inclined to do it but beware when dealing with tolerances in the thousanths, I'd expect to have to fiddle with it. Best case is you split the sleeve and get a press fit on the old post, worst case is you have to spend a few hundred extra for machining oversized sleeve material down to fit the head ID.

If the sleeve is split the the head's grub screws ought to compress it to clamp the post.

RMW

neilc · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2022, 01:38 PM »

The head is heavy! I had to rig up a block and tackle when assembling my Nova DP.

Wonder why someone would have the head but not the column for sale?

rvieceli · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2022, 06:21 PM »

Mike, where in the US are you?

Ron

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2022, 06:39 PM »

Quote from: rvieceli on February 25, 2022, 06:21 PM

Mike, where in the US are you?

Ron

Just outside of Chicago (SW suburbs).

Mike

rvieceli · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2022, 07:02 PM »

Grizzly has a Voyager in their scratch and dent section in the Springfield Missouri showroom. They usually don't ship that stuff preferring to have you pick it up but you might want to inquire about it and see if they will send you pics and maybe ship

https://www.grizzly.com/products/as-is?trk_msg=DVJPSQHVCV0KJDKUV803UF8RES&trk_contact=4LSLFQMOP5MEAI42E6K9TPEO80&trk_sid=69IFA65DJT31QU4E5U7JLG84DC&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=VIEW+CURRENT+INVENTORY&utm_campaign=Expanded+Showroom+MO-plus+ZIPs&utm_content=Expanded+Showroom+MO-plus+ZIPs

under drill presses

They just recently upped the price to $2099 and extended delivery dates out to 2/9/2023

If you want new, you might take a look at the Powermatic PM2820EVS the anniversary model comes with an add on table. There seems to be inventory in the US.

Ron

Bob D. · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2022, 11:41 PM »

"They just recently upped the price to $2099..."

Wow, $2100 for a damaged DP. How prices have jumped.

rvieceli · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2022, 06:50 AM »

@Bob D. The $2099 s for a brand new one with a shipping date in February of next year.

There are usually pretty good discounts on the scratch and dent stuff.

Ron

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2022, 11:07 PM »

The Viking drill head is on it’s way. Figured I can use this now and see if I really would rather have a Voyager down the road and sell this.

I was going to sleeve the old DP post to make the new Viking fit tight on the post but couple responses said KISS. So was wondering if the DP reactive forces are like a hand drill where the torque at the chuck it reacted by a force at the distance your hand holds the handle (i.e. no torque at the post)? If this is the case I think all I really need to do is make sure the post attachment keeps the drill head perpendicular to the table and reacts the force of pushing the bit into the workpiece.

Sound right?

shanegrilah · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2022, 09:24 AM »

The distance between the post and the spindle is a moment arm. When drilling there will be an opposite reaction force through the axis of the bit upward wanting to pivot the head upward around the post connection. The harder the material and larger diameter bit that is being used, the more this upward force will be. If drilling a 1/16" hole through marsh mellow the weight of the head would be enough to overcome the force but a 1" hole through steel would be a different story. A tight slip fit between the head and post will limit how much the head will be able to pivot around the post when drilling.

Shane

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2022, 10:39 AM »

Quote from: shanegrilah on March 27, 2022, 09:24 AM

The distance between the post and the spindle is a moment arm. When drilling there will be an opposite reaction force through the axis of the bit upward wanting to pivot the head upward around the post connection. The harder the material and larger diameter bit that is being used, the more this upward force will be. If drilling a 1/16" hole through marsh mellow the weight of the head would be enough to overcome the force but a 1" hole through steel would be a different story. A tight slip fit between the head and post will limit how much the head will be able to pivot around the post when drilling.

Shane

@shanegrilah Shane thanks for the reply. I was looking at it like this - if I could grab the spindle under load the drill head and post will want to spin around the axis of the spindle. So if I use the moment arm between spindle and the post and apply a tangential force at the post axis isn't this the only reaction force needed?

I was thinking instead of sleeving the post what if added two more sets of tapped holes for set screws? I made a simplified sketch of the post (red) and bore of the drill head (black). The head has two set screws at the 3 o'clock position. If I added set screws at the 9 & 12 o'clock position do you think this would be enough? (I can sleeve the post if necessary but added set screws I can do myself.)

shanegrilah · « **Reply #15 on:** March 27, 2022, 11:28 AM »

Mike,

There will be some rotational force that will want to spin the head around the column axis. But usually the head weight in combination with the set screws into the column are enough to overcome this torque. The force I'm talking about is the upward force caused by pushing the drill into the material. Because of the distance between the drill bit and the column, the head will want to pivot upward. The looser the fit is between the head and column, the more the head will want move. Could adding set screws at 9 & 12 helps this? Maybe, depends what you are planning to drill. Wood might be OK; diameter of bit dependent. Anything harder will increase the downward force necessary to get the drill through the material and hence increase the upward force against the head. There's a reason drill presses are made with a tight fit between the column and the head.

Shane

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2022, 12:12 PM »

@shanegrilah Thanks Shane - will stick to the original plan and sleeve it with a snug fit.

Bob D. · « **Reply #17 on:** March 27, 2022, 12:30 PM »

If you have access to a welder you could build a new
column and not cannibalize your old DP.

Make it so you can use the table from your old DP or
maybe you can find one on Craig's List.

Maybe something like this.

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #18 on:** March 27, 2022, 02:38 PM »

Quote from: Bob D. on March 27, 2022, 12:30 PM

If you have access to a welder you could build a new
column and not cannibalize your old DP.

Make it so you can use the table from your old DP or
maybe you can find one on Craig's List.

Maybe something like this.

@Bob D. Wow that table lift mechanism is slick (but expensive). I'm using my old DP because it has the table lift built-in. Also, I found a tube available that is about 0.001" under the diameter of the old drill press post. Thinking of heating the tube to shrink fit it but I do have a welder so can additionally tack it in a few places. The OD of this tube is 3-1/8" and I need around 3.07" - will need to have someone turn it down for me.

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #19 on:** June 11, 2022, 08:26 PM »

Had some bad luck getting a good drill head from Teknatool but third one was the charm. The machined tube/sleeve worked out perfect. Couldn't be happier with the results! (thanks for all the help)

rvieceli · « **Reply #20 on:** June 11, 2022, 08:31 PM »

Looks great. How's it working out for you?

Ron

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #21 on:** June 11, 2022, 10:08 PM »

Quote from: rvieceli on June 11, 2022, 08:31 PM

Looks great. How's it working out for you?

Ron

Still want a Voyager some day but this a world ahead of the 15.5" Ridgid DP I've had for little over 20 year. The electronic variable speed and electronic depth stop are very impressive. The runout with the Albrecht chuck is less than 0.0005" (it was 0 on my Powermatic 3520B wood lathe)!

festal · « **Reply #22 on:** June 12, 2022, 07:48 AM »

Very interesting. NIcely done

Cheese · « **Reply #23 on:** June 12, 2022, 09:03 AM »

Looks good Mike...that spacer came out nice. Can't complain too much about 5/10th's runout.

Did you turn off the auto reverse function?

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #24 on:** June 12, 2022, 10:12 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on June 12, 2022, 09:03 AM

Looks good Mike...that spacer came out nice. Can't complain too much about 5/10th's runout.

Did you turn off the auto reverse function?

Thanks for your help on this too @Cheese . The sleeve has drilled holes in-line with the set screws such that the load is reacted on the DP post and not the sleeve.

Yes I turned off auto-reverse - I did a few more tests and the auto reverse with a Forstner bit may be a bit smoother but not much. With the reverse turned off there is a much louder alarm when you hit your depth which I like.

I need to get use to a keyless chuck on a drill press. Think I'm overnighting because it takes quite a bit of my strength to release the bit.

Mike

Cheese · « **Reply #25 on:** June 12, 2022, 11:38 AM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 12, 2022, 10:12 AM

I need to get use to a keyless chuck on a drill press. Think I'm overnighting because it takes quite a bit of my strength to release the bit.

Like we talked about previously, the Albrecht chuck incorporates a self-tightening mechanism so I just lightly snug up the collar, it doesn't take much force. Directly from Albrecht:

"All Albrecht Precision Drill Chucks, incorporate a unique self-tightening feature that causes them to grip drills tighter as more torque is applied.
This self-tightening advantage, combined with the fact that keyless chucks are easily opened by hand, is causing many industries to abandon key-type drill chucks altogether."

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #26 on:** June 12, 2022, 01:15 PM »

I bought a Spanish keyless chuck. It’s okay for most purposes but when doing something heavy duty like a 5/8” counterbore in aluminum the chuck needs additional tightening with a wrench that was included.

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #27 on:** June 19, 2022, 06:01 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on June 12, 2022, 11:38 AM

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 12, 2022, 10:12 AM
I need to get use to a keyless chuck on a drill press. Think I'm overnighting because it takes quite a bit of my strength to release the bit.

Like we talked about previously, the Albrecht chuck incorporates a self-tightening mechanism so I just lightly snug up the collar, it doesn't take much force. Directly from Albrecht:

"All Albrecht Precision Drill Chucks, incorporate a unique self-tightening feature that causes them to grip drills tighter as more torque is applied.
This self-tightening advantage, combined with the fact that keyless chucks are easily opened by hand, is causing many industries to abandon key-type drill chucks altogether."

I messed around with the chuck some more and it works great with twist bits and smaller Forstner bits but gives me issues with my killer 2-1/8" Forstner into end grain. So 95% or so of the time I should be able to loosen the chuck by hand.

festal · « **Reply #28 on:** June 20, 2022, 09:16 AM »

This was an unexpected find. Looks like Bosch will be for sale soon lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #29 on:** June 20, 2022, 09:24 AM »

Quote from: festal on June 20, 2022, 09:16 AM

This was an unexpected find. Looks like Bosch will be for sale soon lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very nice! Now where did you find that?

Cheese · « **Reply #30 on:** June 20, 2022, 09:52 AM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 19, 2022, 06:01 PM

I messed around with the chuck some more and it works great with twist bits and smaller Forstner bits but gives me issues with my. killer 2-1/8" Forstner into end grain. So 95% or so of the time I should be able to loosen the chuck by hand.

Well that's a great example of how well the auto-tightening feature works on the Albrecht. That 2 1/8" Forstner certainly produces a large moment arm on the chuck.

Can you use a couple of silicone pads or do you need to bring out the pliers?

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #31 on:** June 20, 2022, 10:22 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on June 20, 2022, 09:52 AM

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 19, 2022, 06:01 PM
I messed around with the chuck some more and it works great with twist bits and smaller Forstner bits but gives me issues with my. killer 2-1/8" Forstner into end grain. So 95% or so of the time I should be able to loosen the chuck by hand.

Well that's a great example of how well the auto-tightening feature works on the Albrecht. That 2 1/8" Forstner certainly produces a large moment arm on the chuck.

Can you use a couple of silicone pads or do you need to bring out the pliers?

I used pliers with a rag. Didn't take much to loosen. Never thought to try silicone pads - will try next time.

The DP has a feature to electronically lock the spindle for keyless chucks. Ha - didn't lock it enough for the big Forstner.

After reading others runout measurements with other DP's and chucks I'm more and more impressed with this Nova/Albrecht combo!

rvieceli · « **Reply #32 on:** June 20, 2022, 10:39 AM »

A strap wrench is a nice tool to have. Works well for this

https://www.amazon.com/Oil-Filter-Wrench-Set-Mechanics/dp/B01NAP6FQJ/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=CIM3ML0Y03OO&keywords=strap+wrench&qid=1655735849&sprefix=strap+wrench%2Caps%2C113&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyTUg3MjU1UkxNS1pUJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODQ4OTUxQU9TSUozN0o0TEtPJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwMzcxOTkxMzAxRlZOM0I1RDY3JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfcGhvbmVfc2VhcmNoX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Ron

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #33 on:** June 20, 2022, 02:38 PM »

Go figure - I started this project to get a variable speed DP in my shop to try out since I have been waiting over a year for a Voyager (latest estimate was 1st week of July delivery but wasn't holding my breath). I wanted some time to test the Viking out but I get this voice mail today that my Voyager will be delivered within an hour!

(I'm actually very happy the wait is over.)

festal · « **Reply #34 on:** June 20, 2022, 04:38 PM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 20, 2022, 09:24 AM

Quote from: festal on June 20, 2022, 09:16 AM

This was an unexpected find. Looks like Bosch will be for sale soon lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very nice! Now where did you find that?

Direct from teknotool , refurb. Got it upright

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

festal · « **Reply #35 on:** June 20, 2022, 04:38 PM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 20, 2022, 02:38 PM

Go figure - I started this project to get a variable speed DP in my shop to try out since I have been waiting over a year for a Voyager (latest estimate was 1st week of July delivery but wasn't holding my breath). I wanted some time to test the Viking out but I get this voice mail today that my Voyager will be delivered within an hour!

(I'm actually very happy the wait is over.)

Oh nice. Now you have 2 lol. One for steel and one for wood?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #36 on:** June 20, 2022, 07:24 PM »

Quote from: festal on June 20, 2022, 04:38 PM

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 20, 2022, 02:38 PM
Go figure - I started this project to get a variable speed DP in my shop to try out since I have been waiting over a year for a Voyager (latest estimate was 1st week of July delivery but wasn't holding my breath). I wanted some time to test the Viking out but I get this voice mail today that my Voyager will be delivered within an hour!

(I'm actually very happy the wait is over.)
Oh nice. Now you have 2 lol. One for steel and one for wood?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wish both my tool budget and garage/shop could afford both.

@festal You found a home for that Viking pretty quickly.

(I should have not put this Viking together because some features are easier to access on it than the Voyager.)

festal · « **Reply #37 on:** June 21, 2022, 09:44 AM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 20, 2022, 07:24 PM

Quote from: festal on June 20, 2022, 04:38 PM
Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 20, 2022, 02:38 PM
Go figure - I started this project to get a variable speed DP in my shop to try out since I have been waiting over a year for a Voyager (latest estimate was 1st week of July delivery but wasn't holding my breath). I wanted some time to test the Viking out but I get this voice mail today that my Voyager will be delivered within an hour!

(I'm actually very happy the wait is over.)
Oh nice. Now you have 2 lol. One for steel and one for wood?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wish both my tool budget and garage/shop could afford both.

@festal You found a home for that Viking pretty quickly.

(I should have not put this Viking together because some features are easier to access on it than the Voyager.)

Yep had the file drawer cabinet ready for it lol. Its a bit dingy but should be fine. Might end up building something better. Menu on Viking is nicer, also built in light and laser which voyager lacks. I do like the bit selection on voyager vs viking but there is a good table in the manual that i'll print out and laminate.

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #38 on:** June 30, 2022, 10:12 AM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 20, 2022, 10:22 AM

Quote from: Cheese on June 20, 2022, 09:52 AM
Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 19, 2022, 06:01 PM
I messed around with the chuck some more and it works great with twist bits and smaller Forstner bits but gives me issues with my. killer 2-1/8" Forstner into end grain. So 95% or so of the time I should be able to loosen the chuck by hand.

Well that's a great example of how well the auto-tightening feature works on the Albrecht. That 2 1/8" Forstner certainly produces a large moment arm on the chuck.

Can you use a couple of silicone pads or do you need to bring out the pliers?

I used pliers with a rag. Didn't take much to loosen. Never thought to try silicone pads - will try next time.

The DP has a feature to electronically lock the spindle for keyless chucks. Ha - didn't lock it enough for the big Forstner.

After reading others runout measurements with other DP's and chucks I'm more and more impressed with this Nova/Albrecht combo!

@Cheese Only tried it a few times but my new Voyager electronic spindle lock has a stronger hold than the Viking and I have been able to loosen the 2-1/8" Forstner with one hand.

Cheese · « **Reply #39 on:** June 30, 2022, 10:24 AM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on June 30, 2022, 10:12 AM

@Cheese Only tried it a few times but my new Voyager electronic spindle lock has a stronger hold than the Viking and I have been able to loosen the 2-1/8" Forstner with one hand.

That's good to know Mike because that's how it should be. I've yet to use more than one hand on my Albrecht/Delta combination, and that's been in use for at least the last 6-7 years.

One hand is on the drill bit and the other hand gives the Albrecht a quick 1/4 turn and she's loose.