Festool Owners Group

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Other Tools & Accessories => Topic started by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 03:51 PM

Title: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 03:51 PM
Hi.  I have a Festool OF1400.  It's a GREAT router.  But it's pretty big for the really small stuff.   I've been pondering getting a smaller trim router - either the Bosch Colt PR20 or the Festool OF1010. 

There's no question that the Festool is higher quality with a lot more horsepower, and it has dust collection.  But it's much bigger and heavier than the Bosch (3.3 vs 6 lbs), and it's three times the cost.  Even with the bases option package, the Bosch is about 1/2 the cost of the Festool.

I keep thinking that the 1010 would be be a great addition, but I already have the OF1400 for more robust portable routing (and a Hitachi M12V to swing the really big bits in a router table).   And the Bosch would be nice for smaller trim routing, getting into very tight spaces, door hinges, and the like. 

Any opinions on these the OF1010 vs the Colt?   

Thanks,

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: greg mann on September 19, 2007, 04:22 PM
I love my 1010 but I am guessing the things you want the Colt for are going to be handled easily by the Colt. You seem to understand the concepts of tool application overlap and tool specialization. For what the Colt, or a facsimile thereof, will cost it is a relatively cheap experiment.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 04:45 PM
Greg,

"Tool overlap"...  Nicely put.   You explained it much better than I did.  The OF1400 and OF1010 have a lot of overlap in the middle portion to lower portioin.   With the OF1400 and Colt, there's much less.   The bottom end of the OF1400 is in the upper end of the Colt.

Last weekend, I was building a small block of wood out of three pieces of Cedar.   The middle piece was an expander piece that I added to increase the height.  Since I wanted quick and flush, I decided to add a wider piece in the middle and just trim it flush.   I used my OF1400 and it worked nicely with a bottom bearing flush trimming bit.  But...

The OF1400 was overkill and a bit tippy on the narrow block (only 2-1/4 inches wide).   This job was at the bottom end of the OF1400's range.   The OF1010 would have been in the lower middle of its range.  A Bosch Colt could have handled it nicely and only be in the higher end of its range.   

Maybe what Festool needs is a Colt-level product with dust collection!   Better overall product range with Festool quality.

Thanks,

Dan.

Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 05:07 PM
Well, I stand corrected.   I said that the Colt doesn't have dust collection.   Also, of course, it's not plunge router.   Unless you add this Micro-Fence plunge base with dust collection: http://www.microfence.com/pages/Plunge/Zoom12.html.   Of course there's the modest issue of the $550 package price!  :o (http://www.microfence.com/pages/Packages%20and%20Prices.html)  Note that this price does NOT include the router.

Regards,

Dan.

Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Lou Miller on September 19, 2007, 05:53 PM
Dan, check the reviews on the Colt before getting one. When they first hit the market, they had tons of problems with quality issues. I went through three of them before giving up on it. I thought it would have been a nice router if they ever got things in order. Maybe they have, but I had a bad enough experience that I won't be trying again.

I ended up with this one: http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-0310-Production-Laminate-Trimmer/dp/B0000222Z4/ref=sr_1_6/103-4364914-9352625?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1190238351&sr=1-6

Compared to the Colts I had, there's a night and day difference. The PC worked perfectly right out of the box and its a much better build quality too. I don't use it much at all though. Usually only for really small taks where a big router would be too cumbersome. Its my second least used router. The least used one for me just happens to be the OF1010. Just my opinion only, but I don't care much at all for that router. I do like the OF1400 though.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Ned on September 19, 2007, 05:54 PM
Well, I stand corrected.   I said that the Colt doesn't have dust collection.   Also, of course, it's not plunge router.   Unless you add this Micro-Fence plunge base with dust collection: http://www.microfence.com/pages/Plunge/Zoom12.html.   Of course there's the modest issue of the $550 package price!  :o (http://www.microfence.com/pages/Packages%20and%20Prices.html)  Note that this price does NOT include the router.

So what's the equipped price of the Colt vs. the equipped price of the 1010?

I seem to remember others who have both the 1010 and the 1400 saying that the 1010 was always their first choice for anything within its capacity.

Ned
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 06:38 PM
Ned,

The equipped price for the basic PR20EVS router with Fixed Base, Straight Edge Guide, and case is $99 at Coastal Tool.  The OF1010 with Guide stop, Side stop, Guide bushing adaptor (469625), Chip catcher, 1/4" and 8 mm collets, and Systainer is $330.   

Remember that I have the OF1400 (with all the accessories).  I love it.   The only way you can get it away from me is by prying it from my cold, dead hands yada, yada.   I'm looking for an additional router.   

So the question is not whether the Colt is better than the OF1010.  It is whether the OF1400 + Colt is better than the OF1400 + OF1010.   

Regards,

Dan.

p.s. I like Systainers so much that I might get a Sys 1 Vari or Sys 2 Vari for storage if I get the Colt.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Ned on September 19, 2007, 06:42 PM
Dan,

You mentioned $500 add-ons for the Colt.  If that accessory was important to you, then it would be part of what I meant by equipped.

Ned
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 06:43 PM
Dan, check the reviews on the Colt before getting one. When they first hit the market, they had tons of problems with quality issues.
...
Lou,

I've read about some issues with Bosch Colt routers.  I believe it had something to do with the collet or wrench.   Also, I wasn't sure if the issues were with the original PR10 or the newer PR20.   Which one did you have?

Thanks,

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 06:49 PM
Dan,

You mentioned $500 add-ons for the Colt.  If that accessory was important to you, then it would be part of what I meant by equipped.

Ned

Ned,

Hi.  My post about the add-ons was a little tongue in cheek.  The add-on I was referring to was the Micro-Fence plunge base.   The plunge base looks VERY nice, but it's kind of like sticking a Volkswagon engine in a hand made Ferarri body.   Sure, it will work, but it just seems out of kilter to me.   And you're adding a lot of weight and size.   Kind of defeats the purpose of a small, light trim router.  There's no way I rationalize that kind of expense.

OTOH...  If you're doing heavy production work, maybe that base with a nice router would be a good idea.

Regards,

Dan.

Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: jonny round boy on September 19, 2007, 07:47 PM
If you're just after a small, light trimmer router, why not go for the OFK500? It's about 2/3rds the price of the OF1010, too.

Or is it NAINA?
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Jim Dailey on September 19, 2007, 08:07 PM
As much as I love my OF 1400 & OF1010 routers, there will always be trim routers in my shop with round over bits mounted ready to go... 

I can't speak for the Colt but the two models of PC trim routers have given me trouble free service for years.  Of the two the "production" model (#310?) is the one I'd grab first, however the other is more flexible since I have the fixed base, off-set base, and tilting base plus the laminate splitter.

I will say of the doz. or so routers I own that the OF1010 has become my favorite.  I just wish it had the snap in guide bushes & ratching collet like the OF1400.

jim
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Lou Miller on September 19, 2007, 08:17 PM
Dan, check the reviews on the Colt before getting one. When they first hit the market, they had tons of problems with quality issues.
...
Lou,

I've read about some issues with Bosch Colt routers.  I believe it had something to do with the collet or wrench.   Also, I wasn't sure if the issues were with the original PR10 or the newer PR20.   Which one did you have?

Thanks,

Dan.

I can't remember for sure. However, I bought it when it first hit the market, so I guess it would have to be the older version. The problems I had with the router was getting the base square to the bits. It was virtually impossible, and I thought it was a pretty crappy design on Bosch's part. I can only assume they've fixed the issues since then because there appear to be a lot of people with them now that are relatively happy.

My past experience with anything from Bosch is that you're gonna get what you pay for. The Colt is only $99...

Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 08:31 PM
If you're just after a small, light trimmer router, why not go for the OFK500? It's about 2/3rds the price of the OF1010, too.

Or is it NAINA?

Jonny,

As per usual, you guys get the good stuff that we can't get.   I.e., NAINA!   :'(

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 08:36 PM
Dan, check the reviews on the Colt before getting one. When they first hit the market, they had tons of problems with quality issues.
...
Lou,

I've read about some issues with Bosch Colt routers.  I believe it had something to do with the collet or wrench.   Also, I wasn't sure if the issues were with the original PR10 or the newer PR20.   Which one did you have?

Thanks,

Dan.

I can't remember for sure. However, I bought it when it first hit the market, so I guess it would have to be the older version. The problems I had with the router was getting the base square to the bits. It was virtually impossible, and I thought it was a pretty crappy design on Bosch's part. I can only assume they've fixed the issues since then because there appear to be a lot of people with them now that are relatively happy.

My past experience with anything from Bosch is that you're gonna get what you pay for. The Colt is only $99...

Lou,

I'm not a big fan of Bosch.  I have their Miter Saw and it's pretty decent, but I'm not happy with a few things (thus my interest in the Kapex).   That said, the Colt has gotten good reviews in general, so I'm "sniffing".   I'll check with some current owners about base squareness.

Regarding your Colt, the PR20 is variable speed while the PR10 is fixed.  Do you remember if they were fixed or variable speed?

Thanks,

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Lou Miller on September 19, 2007, 09:12 PM
IIRC, it was fixed. I could be wrong though, I didn't have them very long and it was about two years ago. Sometimes I can't remember what I did 5 minutes ago and you want me to remember something from 2 years ago  ???   ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: womackdesign on September 19, 2007, 09:54 PM
I hate my bosch colt. Chad
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 10:04 PM
Chad,

I hear you, but could you be a teensy bit more specific?   What model?  Why do you hate it?   What did you hate?   (And no, I don't expect it to be Festool quality.)

Thanks,

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: greg mann on September 19, 2007, 10:17 PM
Dan,

The MicroFence base seems pretty cool and Richard's fences are first rate, but I feel a trim router in a MicroFence base has little to offer over the 1010. The base expands the overall package too close to a 1010 so you lose a bit of the agility you were looking for in the first place, and, the 1010 will have power and smoothness in spades over any trim router. Lastly, the trim router with the MicroFence base wold cost as much as the 1010. All of which you have probably figured out for yourself.  ::)
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Kevin Johnson on September 19, 2007, 10:33 PM
I have a 1400 and a Bosch colt that I bought about 3-4 months ago.  I love that little router.  I also have the Dewalt laminate trimmer and I prefer it a lot over the Bosch.  I have never tried the PC.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 11:00 PM
Dan,

The MicroFence base seems pretty cool and Richard's fences are first rate, but I feel a trim router in a MicroFence base has little to offer over the 1010. The base expands the overall package too close to a 1010 so you lose a bit of the agility you were looking for in the first place, and, the 1010 will have power and smoothness in spades over any trim router. Lastly, the trim router with the MicroFence base wold cost as much as the 1010. All of which you have probably figured out for yourself.  ::)
Greg,

Yep.  Actually, the Colt with the MicroFence plunge base is MORE (much more) than the OF1010.  Not goin there.  ;D   

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 19, 2007, 11:02 PM
I have a 1400 and a Bosch colt that I bought about 3-4 months ago.  I love that little router.  I also have the Dewalt laminate trimmer and I prefer it a lot over the Bosch.  I have never tried the PC.
Kevin,

I'm getting mixed messages.  You love the Colt but prefer the Dewalt over the Colt?   Do I understand correctly?   What do you like about the Dewalt?

Thanks,

DAn.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: JD2720 on September 20, 2007, 12:07 AM
The main thing I do not like about the small laminate trimmer routers is that it difficult to get the bit height dialed in.
I was at a Bosch demo tonight & that was the main complaint I heard about the Colt.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Jesse Cloud on September 20, 2007, 10:23 AM
Interesting thread.  I have the OF1400 and the Colt.  Everytime I use the Colt I get frustrated (hard to change bits, hard to get exact height, etc).  What I would really love is a small agile router with good visibility for freehand routing.  Anybody have one?
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 20, 2007, 10:44 AM
Our good friend Jonny Round Boy is waving this little guy under our NAINA noses:
(http://wwwinet.my-tts.com/Festool/Kat_2005/fraesen/jpg_zoom/zoom__fr_ofk500_574184_p_01a.jpg). 

It's an expensive little bugger, but looks very nice.  Here's the page: http://www.festool.co.uk/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=2587&PARENT=2578&AKTIVPROD=1 :-X

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Eli on September 20, 2007, 11:07 AM
Our good friend Jonny Round Boy is waving this little guy under our NAINA noses:

That's why I stayed out of it, I thought you guys didn't have that one.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: SRSemenza on September 20, 2007, 11:12 AM
Hi,

     Does that (festool trim router) have some sort of Fast Fix quick change base?


Seth
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Brice Burrell on September 20, 2007, 11:25 AM
Interesting thread.  I have the OF1400 and the Colt.  Everytime I use the Colt I get frustrated (hard to change bits, hard to get exact height, etc).  What I would really love is a small agile router with good visibility for freehand routing. Anybody have one?
  Jesse, like you, I've not found a trim router that has it all. I've used the PC, older Bosch (more or less the same thing as the Colt) and I now have a Ridgid trim router. The PC and Bosch are a little harder to adjust than the Ridgid, but the Ridgid has the least visibility. Next time you're at the orange store take a look at the all three brands.

  I find I use my trim router much less since I picked up the 1010. Attached is a photo of the OF1400, OF1010 and the Ridgid trim routers.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: MarkF on September 20, 2007, 06:23 PM
While not a Bosch Colt or a Festool 1010, a few of my friends purchased the Trend router at a local WWing show for ~$80 and like them.
http://www.trend-uk.com/product/U*T4EK/2/2/Router+14+850W+110V.html

An 8mm collet is an option:
http://www.trend-uk.com/product/CLT_T4_8/Collet+8mm+T4+.html
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Kevin Johnson on September 21, 2007, 12:26 AM
I have a 1400 and a Bosch colt that I bought about 3-4 months ago.  I love that little router.  I also have the Dewalt laminate trimmer and I prefer it a lot over the Bosch.  I have never tried the PC.
Kevin,

I'm getting mixed messages.  You love the Colt but prefer the Dewalt over the Colt?   Do I understand correctly?   What do you like about the Dewalt?

Thanks,


DAn.

Sorry about that Dan, I meant to say that I like the Colt better.  I like the micro-adjust on the Colt.  I have no problem dialing in the height, BTW.  The interesting thing is that I bought it because I did not like the height adjustment on the Dewalt.  After I got the Colt, I was disappointed because the directions said to turn the base to the unlock position and then use the Micro-adjust.  The problem with that is that the base would then move when you moved the base to the locked position.  However, I found that I could micro adjust it by loosening the clamp and leaving the base in the locked position.  Once the depth is set, put the clamp back on and the base stays where I want it.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 21, 2007, 11:33 AM
Kevin,

Very good information.  I'm still thinin' about this.  I like the size and features of the Colt, but keep wondering about the quality.

Thanks and regards,

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Matthew Schenker on September 21, 2007, 12:04 PM
If you're just after a small, light trimmer router, why not go for the OFK500? It's about 2/3rds the price of the OF1010, too.

Or is it NAINA?

OK, that's it.  We in North America have to launch a counter-attack, and taunt those in Australia and Germany and Great Britain by waving in front of them all the tools we have here that they don't have.  Now, can someone help me pinpoint which tools these are?

Matthew
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 21, 2007, 01:06 PM
OK, let's hear it...   Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?   ;D
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: sowilson on September 21, 2007, 05:05 PM
Forget the Bosch and go for the Lamello Lamina http://www.colonialsaw.com/lamello/laminae.html
(http://www.colonialsaw.com/lamello/images/lamina_E2.jpg)
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Brice Burrell on September 21, 2007, 05:16 PM
Forget the Bosch and go for the Lamello Lamina
Sure at $600 why not buy two!
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 21, 2007, 05:18 PM
Brice,

Ya beat me to it.   It's lovely, looks relatively small, and has built-in dust collection.   As you mentioned, there's just one itsy, bitsy, teeney, tiny issue!  8)

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: SRSemenza on September 21, 2007, 10:51 PM
Hi,

    I am wondering if the Festool trim router with hose attached is "tippy"?  It seems that the weight of the hose would tend to pull the router off track. Being  light, tall, and not having a real handle, etc.

Seth
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dave Rudy on September 22, 2007, 10:14 AM
Here's the page:
Dan.

Thanks Dan.  Nothing quite like dangling unavailable tools in front of our noses!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: wooden on September 28, 2007, 12:08 PM
I like the size and features of the Colt, but keep wondering about the quality.



I wouldn't worry too much about the quality.  Pat Warner is pretty good with routers and he comments that the Bosch is a good unit.  Get some subbases from Pat and you'll likely be set.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dan Clark on September 28, 2007, 01:45 PM
Here's the page:
Dan.

Thanks Dan.  Nothing quite like dangling unavailable tools in front of our noses!  :) :) :)
Dave,

If you think that's bad, take a look at the new MFK700!   Joiner1970 posted a link here: http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=1661.0.  It looks a trim router that can be used in both the horizontal AND vertial orientation.   It's pricey, but looks very tasty.   (Jonny Round Boy will go crazy with this one. This is WAY too much ammunition! ::) )

Dan.
Title: Re: Festool 1010 vs Bosch Colt
Post by: Dave Rudy on September 28, 2007, 10:32 PM
Well, look at it this way.  This is an invitation to a little humility.  I mean, we think we're at the center of the world, right -- well, we're actually a disadvantaged Festool nation if you want to think of it that way.  It should make us a little more manageable.

 :o :o ??? ::)