Author Topic: FastCap's Rip Guide  (Read 3739 times)

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Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 408
FastCap's Rip Guide
« on: January 19, 2021, 11:50 AM »
Got this in my email this morning, FastCap's Rip Guide.    Another approach to parallel guides.   Nice price point.

FastCap Rip Guide

I doubt I will get one as I already have a parallel guide solution (TSO), but thought I would pass this along.

Bob

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Online FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 832
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2021, 12:03 PM »
Nice, but ouch; it looks very similar to what Ron Paulk did with the Carvex accessory.
He featured this in a video a short while back.

Found it:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NBqPlAjObg8&feature=share
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 12:10 PM by FestitaMakool »
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Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 101
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2021, 01:04 PM »
Thanks for sharing!

The Fastcap listing actually says "Invented by Emily Adams". The version is discussed by Ron Paulk on his channel also is by Emily Adams. He just advertises her DIY design based on two Festool Carvex Circle Cutters ($55 each). So I hope she collaborated with Fastcap on this and benefits from sales.

Kreg has a very similar design, the Kreg ACS Parallel Guides. It costs almost the same and I think the Kreg also works with Festool tracks but I haven't tried myself: https://www.kregtool.com/shop/cutting/adaptive-cutting-systems/adaptive-cutting-system-parallel-guides/ACS415.html

I like the design. It's compact and has a very large  range. Fastcap seems to be the better solution. The curser on the scale looks better, it is officially compatible with Festool, the max cut length is longer (71'' Fastcap versus 62'' Kreg), the scale includes inch and mm, and they acknowledges the inventor. Not sure about build quality. Both are plastic.

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 101
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2021, 01:07 PM »
The video says that they worked with Emily Adams, who invented the DIY solution advertised on Ron Paulk channel. This is a collaboration between Fastcap and the inventor of this design.

Nice, but ouch; it looks very similar to what Ron Paulk did with the Carvex accessory.
He featured this in a video a short while back.

Found it:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NBqPlAjObg8&feature=share

Online FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 832
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2021, 03:01 PM »
Well, it seems all good then [smile]
Thanks for letting us (me. [embarassed]) know.
It seemed such an obvious “copy”.
I like it too, the solution is very portable and handy.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Online Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 809
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2021, 03:06 PM »
The TSO PG's are an amazing piece of engineering but the 50" tracks cannot fit into a regular drawer ... I like that these are small and can be tossed in a drawer. 

That said, these cannot do narrow rips and that could be a show stopper for some people.

Offline Josh2

  • Posts: 101
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2021, 03:14 PM »
Another downside compared to TSO-style parallel guides is the lack of flipstops, which I find pretty important for a lot of things with continuous grain. But they are not a replacement. Much lower price point, great entry for many people and the size plus extended range make them useful even when you have TSO (or an alternative to purchasing the 50' tracks).

Offline mkasdin

  • Posts: 474
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2021, 03:26 PM »
Nice, but ouch; it looks very similar to what Ron Paulk did with the Carvex accessory.
He featured this in a video a short while back.

Found it:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NBqPlAjObg8&feature=share
100% agree. Very similar in execution.  I’ve seen a lot of RP’s videos not sure how this one got by.

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 132
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2021, 09:10 AM »
I'd be concerned about moving them between cuts and whether the tapes would get kinked.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 11:29 AM by Imemiter »
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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2395
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2021, 10:56 AM »
If I still had my track saw, I wouldn't get this gadget. It's only marginally better than a measuring tape, which by the way means using one single tape with no calibration needed between tapes/guides. $90US can buy me lots of tapes.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 198
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2021, 06:59 PM »
I'd be concerned about moving them between cuts and whether the tapes would get kinked.
To me these seem more like for "faster and more accurate than tape yet not production-style like the TSO PGs."

I think a worthy accessory for a carpenter to have in his pack or a good-enough jig for a hobbyist who has the time to handle the rail with attached guides with sufficient care.

Not sure about the FastCaps version, but original using the Festool Jigsaw accessories should be able to handle some abuse. These are lighter, so should be fine if handled with care.

I do not think a tape measure + pencil is better though. There is one thing to measure accurately "the same" which a tape measure can- to check the PGs being aligned etc. - and another thing entirely to do align-to-measurement which really needs a jig of some sort to be accurate.
Pencil marks may be reasonably accurate in length, but it will never be repeatable like the PGs are.

$90US can buy me lots of tapes.
But not accurate ones. Just got my new tape delivered today. It was $40 for a single 5 meter tape ($30 tape, $10 calibration).

A real alternative - for repeatable cuts - is an ad-hoc jig from a piece of ply to align the rails always the same for a given task. Still using a bunch of these while my PGs based on engineers rulers are "in process". It works, but is still not as accurate (as the ply is not firmly attach to rail, there are two movable contact points about halving the theoretical accuracy) and a bit of a pain to use.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 07:06 PM by mino »
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Online Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 809
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2021, 09:52 PM »
$90US can buy me lots of tapes.
But not accurate ones. Just got my new tape delivered today. It was $40 for a single 5 meter tape ($30 tape, $10 calibration).

I don't know about that ... I paid $11 for my FastCap True32 tape measure and it's perfectly aligned with my Starrett SS and WoodPeckers rules as well as the TSO PG's.  If there's something more accurate I wouldn't want it as it would be the odd ball that doesn't match everything else...

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2395
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2021, 10:10 PM »

$90US can buy me lots of tapes.
But not accurate ones. Just got my new tape delivered today. It was $40 for a single 5 meter tape ($30 tape, $10 calibration).


Every single tape we can buy out there is an accurate tape -- as long as you use that same tape throughout for the project. I never ever switch tapes, and use the very same tape to transfer measurements until the end. No calibration of any kind. Every cut has been accurate -- if any cut isn't, it's not the fault of the tape but something else.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2335
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2021, 10:25 PM »
It's only marginally better than a measuring tape, which by the way means using one single tape with no calibration needed between tapes/guides. $90US can buy me lots of tapes.
I don't think so. With this contraption you register both ends of the rail at the same time. Don't even have to look or run back and forth adjusting one end, while the other end shifts. No different than any rip guide on the market, only less heavy duty and lacking some features.

What I don't understand is why mount it backwards? Every DIY version I've seen is like that (backwards). The roll side of the rip guide (the heavy part) should attach to the rail. Obviously such that it clears saw motor. Then only the self supporting tip would extend, just like a regular tape.
P.S. Just looked at Kreg's version. Only they got it right.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 10:37 PM by Svar »

Offline tofu

  • Posts: 20
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2021, 10:30 PM »
At half the price i might be interested, but for $100 more, may as well just save up a bit and get the tso

Offline mino

  • Posts: 198
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2021, 06:45 AM »
Every single tape we can buy out there is an accurate tape -- as long as you use that same tape throughout for the project. I never ever switch tapes, and use the very same tape to transfer measurements until the end. No calibration of any kind. Every cut has been accurate -- if any cut isn't, it's not the fault of the tape but something else.
Not so unfortunately. It is basically hit&miss with the better quality ones having a higher -chance- you do not get burned.

The real problem is that we do not used tapes to measure the same distance all the time. And the tapes inaccuracy may not be spread evenly along its length. It actually never really is. The problem is "how much" is it nonuniform.

Case in point, I have a tape at home which I was checking against a calibrated one and which looks like new as is not really used.
It accuracy looks this:
(real values are +-0,2, cannot measure more accurately by eye)

0-500 > real 501.0
 - this is just horrible
0-1000 => real 1000.4 /so 500-1000 gives 499.4 (!)/
 - seems not so bad /if not aware how came to be/
0-1500 => real 1500.4 /so 1000-1500 gives 500.0/
 - darn good /if not aware how came to be/ EC precision class 1 (highest) demands <= 0,45 variance here
0-2500 => real 2000.8 /so 1500-2000 gives 500.4/
 - seems OK /if not aware how came to be/

Now you can see the problem ... you can get almost 2mm compound error bu two measurements one in 500 mm and other in 1000 mm territory and this from the same measure.

The calibrated Class 1 tape I got delivered lately looks like this (random calibration acc. +/-0,1 mm, excluding systemic errors)
0-500 > 500.0
0-1000 > 1000.0
0-1500 > 1500.1
0-2000 > 2000.1
0-2500 > 2500.2
0-3000 > 3000.2
0-3500 > 3500.3
0-4000 > 4000.3
0-4500 > 4500.3
0-5000 > 5000.3

Now, with such a gradual lengthening - like on this one, even if by more per meter - Yeah!  You can build a well-fitting project as it will just be a bit scaled like the tape was.

But without having your cheapo tape measure calibrated - in some way - you will never know. And I am not sure how many woodworkers have the length-measuring tools to do so with any real accuracy.

Actually, I bought this tape lately precisely because it was the cheapest way to get a calibrated measuring instrument with known deviations.


Not to the actual point, that is of course moot.
What the PGs allow and tape + pencil does not is not accurate measuring but accurate -transfer- of measurement to the tool. As usual, errors are always compound.
A PG does not solve measurement accuracy issue. You need a calibrated/known-good tape or ruler for that. But it reduces the transfer error from >0,5 commonly to < 0,1 mm which is great in this size/cost band.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 09:47 AM by mino »
AGC 18(@AGC 125 flange), BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36(fixed@LR32), EVP 13 H-2CA
My Precious FS/2: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 2520

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2021, 09:35 AM »
Interesting background on this device.  It was invented by Emily Adams, a product designer (it seems like mostly digital stuff).  Here is her website:  https://emily-adams.com/


The invention is shown very near the very bottom of the page (scroll down several pages to the end).

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2395
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2021, 10:15 AM »
Every single tape we can buy out there is an accurate tape -- as long as you use that same tape throughout for the project. I never ever switch tapes, and use the very same tape to transfer measurements until the end. No calibration of any kind. Every cut has been accurate -- if any cut isn't, it's not the fault of the tape but something else.
Snip.

The real problem is that we do not used tapes to measure the same distance all the time.

It doesn't matter if it is not the same distance in a woodworking application when you use a tape as "inaccurate" as it may be to transfer measurements like a story stick. One tape one scale. Zero inaccuracy there. Zero calibration too.

An "inaccurate" 13-1/16" on the left piece would just be the same as the 13-1/16" on the right, even if the most accurate tape in the world, if it does exist, says it really is 13-1/32".

Of all the furniture projects I've completed over the decades, the "problem" you described of the tape inaccuracy has never affected any of them  in terms of precision or accuracy or quality because I stick to the same tape throughout a project.

I always refer to myself as a woodworker, not a machinist.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 12:10 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2021, 10:37 AM »
Every single tape we can buy out there is an accurate tape -- as long as you use that same tape throughout for the project. I never ever switch tapes, and use the very same tape to transfer measurements until the end. No calibration of any kind. Every cut has been accurate -- if any cut isn't, it's not the fault of the tape but something else.
Not so unfortunately. It is basically hit&miss with the better quality ones having a higher -chance- you do not get burned.

The real problem is that we do not used tapes to measure the same distance all the time. And the tapes inaccuracy may not be spread evenly along its length. It actually never really is. The problem is "how much" is it nonuniform.

Case in point, I have a tape at home which I was checking against a calibrated one and which looks like new as is not really used.
It accuracy looks this:
(real values are +-0,2, cannot measure more accurately by eye)

0-500 > real 501.0
 - this is just horrible
0-1000 => real 1000.4 /so 500-1000 gives 499.4 (!)/
 - seems not so bad /if not aware how came to be/
0-1500 => real 1500.4 /so 1000-1500 gives 500.0/
 - darn good /if not aware how came to be/ EC precision class 1 (highest) demands <= 0,45 variance here
0-2500 => real 2000.8 /so 1500-2000 gives 500.4/
 - seems OK /if not aware how came to be/

Now you can see the problem ... you can get almost 2mm compound error bu two measurements one in 500 mm and other in 1000 mm territory and this from the same measure.

The calibrated Class 1 tape I got delivered lately looks like this (random calibration acc. +/-0,1 mm, excluding systemic errors)
0-500 > 500.0
0-1000 > 1000.0
0-1500 > 1500.1
0-2000 > 2000.1
0-2500 > 2500.2
0-3000 > 3000.2
0-3500 > 3500.3
0-4000 > 4000.3
0-4500 > 4500.3
0-5000 > 5000.3

Now, with such a gradual lengthening - like on this one, even if by more per meter - Yeah!  You can build a well-fitting project as it will just be a bit scaled like the tape was.

But without having your cheapo tape measure calibrated - in some way - you will never know. And I am not sure how many woodworkers have the length-measuring tools to do so with any real accuracy.

Actually, I bought this tape lately precisely because it was the cheapest way to get a calibrated measuring instrument with known deviations.


Not to the actual point, that is of course moot.
What the PGs allow and tape + pencil does not is not accurate measuring but accurate -transfer- of measurement to the tool. As usual, errors are always compound.
A PG does not solve measurement accuracy issue. You need a calibrated/known-good tape or ruler for that. But it reduces the transfer error from >0,5 commonly to < 0,1 mm which is great in this size/cost band.

Our tool and die makers work to 0.001" or less for tool steel.  But that kind of accuracy is almost never specified for woodworking.  I cannot imagine the situation where tolerances of ± 0.005" (inches) or less.  Even well-fitted dovetails are not worked to tolerances that close.

Before I got my TSO parallel guides, I had two 16" Harbor Freight combination squares which I bought at the same time.  I would set both to the same size and clamp them to the plywood and then adjust the track to fit snuggly against the ends of the ruler.  There was probably 3 or 4 ways that error could (and did) creep into the measurements, but if it did, it did not appear to affect the finished product or my ability to assemble it. 

The big thing for me is if I am making 12" deep cabinets that my side panels all be 11¼" wide.  If they are all 11.245"  or all 11.255" it would not make a difference.  The only real issue would be that they all be the same.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2395
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2021, 12:21 PM »
It's only marginally better than a measuring tape, which by the way means using one single tape with no calibration needed between tapes/guides. $90US can buy me lots of tapes.
I don't think so. With this contraption you register both ends of the rail at the same time. Don't even have to look or run back and forth adjusting one end, while the other end shifts. No different than any rip guide on the market, only less heavy duty and lacking some features.

Here's why I said the product is better marginally, largely based on this footage I came across: https://www.instagram.com/p/CKJg-pNDLtB/

1) The setting is done on two tapes (guides), not one -- and by sight. Like setting tapes, it's a step subject to errors. In other words, the two guides may not be set identical in length each time and every time. Even a slight difference may matter depending on the length.
2) The two guides are placed on two sides far apart, and again their placement/positioning is checked by sight, meaning the two guides may not be dead parallel.
3) How secure the tapes stay in the guides after calibration is unknown to me from the footage as they are pulled each time they're used. Constant checking/calibration of the guides is needed for precision cuts.

The gadget is fine for carpentry/home improvement type of work -- and for that, I've been happy with the results using tapes as the setting tool. I wouldn't rely on it for furniture cuts that require a high degree of precision.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 12:29 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Banana

  • Posts: 66
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2021, 01:33 PM »
I’ve never used a tape based system with my tracks but Ive always wondered if they fall short when cutting larger pieces, meaning how do you guarantee that the non-rigid measuring tapes stay parallel to each other without fussing.  And when you need to move the whole setup off the table to set up the next cut isn’t it a floppy mess (?) 
It ‘seems’ like a great idea but I suspect under repetitive use it’s “close but no cigar”.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2335
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2021, 02:08 PM »
Here's why I said the product is better marginally, largely based on this footage I came across: https://www.instagram.com/p/CKJg-pNDLtB/
2) The two guides are placed on two sides far apart, and again their placement/positioning is checked by sight, meaning the two guides may not be dead parallel.
They don't have to be dead parallel. A 10 mm deviation from parallel over 1000 mm length will result in 0.05 mm error in the width of your cut. I think I can eyeball 10 mm.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 02:10 PM by Svar »

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2021, 02:13 PM »
Tape is accurate only if you are putting tension on the tape.  A ruler would be more accurate if you cannot apply uniform tension. 

Offline Banana

  • Posts: 66
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2021, 07:40 PM »
Here's why I said the product is better marginally, largely based on this footage I came across: https://www.instagram.com/p/CKJg-pNDLtB/
2) The two guides are placed on two sides far apart, and again their placement/positioning is checked by sight, meaning the two guides may not be dead parallel.
They don't have to be dead parallel. A 10 mm deviation from parallel over 1000 mm length will result in 0.05 mm error in the width of your cut. I think I can eyeball 10 mm.


I guess that’s my point as well, having to eyeball / re-position yourself to check etc. = fussing.  Whereas something with rigid arms, you should be able to stay in place and maybe at the most shake the setup once to settle everything. 
It’s a novel concept for sure, but came from a young lady being ‘creative’, then pushed by a vlogger needing content, then picked up by Kreg / Fastcap cementing it’s novelty.
It just doesn’t seem a robust or ideal solution to me but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 07:42 PM by Banana »

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 1032
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2021, 01:38 AM »
This looks like a very nice little system.

The price sounds steep but if you are going to break down a stack of 10 or more sheets in a single session you really need some kind of repeatable solution.  I wouldn't let the $90 stop me.

That said, if I only have 3 or 4 sheets to break down I usually just go with the old faithful, tried and true razor blades.  Practically free, no fuss at all and they certainly don't take up much room.  That method is infinitely better than pencil marks and accurate enough for case work.  I always keep a couple with nice sharp points in the systainer.

The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 198
Re: FastCap's Rip Guide
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2021, 06:46 AM »
The big thing for me is if I am making 12" deep cabinets that my side panels all be 11¼" wide.  If they are all 11.245"  or all 11.255" it would not make a difference.  The only real issue would be that they all be the same.
Would not fuss about 0,01 inch (0,25 mm) either but the tape was much worse. The 1 mm/500 mm gives about 11.22 vs 11.26 difference there in your example. Enough for a glue-up to not meet properly.

I was hit by the uneven elongation/manufacture of a tape measure just recently and it was a pain in the ... until I figured the issue was the tape measure and not my tools or technique ... that how actually started to focus on PGs etc. As initially I assumed my issue was the transfer of the measurement to the tool. That was just a part of the issue ...

Most quality tape measures are indeed good-enough as their (in)accuracy is consistent across length. But one shall assume all of them are so to his own peril. Especially the cheaper ones can be total junk like mine. The messy one €4 while here the most used ones sell for €2 or so ...
AGC 18(@AGC 125 flange), BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36(fixed@LR32), EVP 13 H-2CA
My Precious FS/2: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 2520